ESB eCars

unkel

4 hubs in the whole country that can charge 3 cars each?

Great progress.


The original post from 2 years ago mentioned 16 hubs that can charge 4 cars each. Not that I would call those super hubs. So when can we expect that, by 2022, 2023?

AndyBoBandy

When there's half a million cars on the road, they might decide to get off their ar$e and do some real hubs....

Black_Knight

unkel wrote: »

4 hubs in the whole country that can charge 3 cars each?

Great progress.


The original post from 2 years ago mentioned 16 hubs that can charge 4 cars each. Not that I would call those super hubs. So when can we expect that, by 2022, 2023?

Not that it makes much difference, but isn't there 5?

Dublin Port
Kilcullen
Galway Plaza
Portlaoise
Park Ri Kells



In other news, the new 50kW units in Galway and Westport are both Unavailable. Hopefully not a software issue (with their new software) - or if it is hopefully they can fix it quick

the_amazing_raisin

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

When there's half a million cars on the road, they might decide to get off their ar$e and do some real hubs....

When we've half a million cars then suddenly it'll become a money maker to have public charging and someone will come along and build a proper network and put the ESB out of business

ELM327

Will it though? Standard range is 300km real world these days. In a few years this will be 500-600km. With that range, no one will need public fast charging on any regular basis and thus there's no money in it.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

Will it though? Standard range is 300km real world these days. In a few years this will be 500-600km.

Neither is true. Only higher end cars will have 500-600km range in a few years time. Not your common €15-€25k econobox

the_amazing_raisin

ELM327 wrote: »

Will it though? Standard range is 300km real world these days. In a few years this will be 500-600km. With that range, no one will need public fast charging on any regular basis and thus there's no money in it.

Will we have 500-600km EVs though? Yes there'll be newer Tesla's and other cars designed for long range, but is it more likely that a lot of automakers will stop around the 50-80kWh region and just focus on making cars cheaper?


I'm gonna hazard a guess that the likes of Applegreen & other fuel providers will jump on the charging bandwagon and start installing proper hubs in their motorway service stations. They've already shown an interest and Circle K is way ahead with the partnership with Ionity

ELM327

Even the likes of the koreans are selling EVs now with >300km real world range for mid 30k (Kona/Niro/soul)
VAG will have the same next year, deliveries already starting.


Teslas sold today have 500-600km real range. 4 years ago that was half those figures. This is where the market is going. Take the Tesla/other "halo" brand range and bring it in to the "masses" in a few years time.

the_amazing_raisin

ELM327 wrote: »

Even the likes of the koreans are selling EVs now with >300km real world range for mid 30k (Kona/Niro/soul)
VAG will have the same next year, deliveries already starting.


Teslas sold today have 500-600km real range. 4 years ago that was half those figures. This is where the market is going. Take the Tesla/other "halo" brand range and bring it in to the "masses" in a few years time.

True, but those are still premium vehicles, and there's a lot more cheapmobiles out there


If you take the E-Up as an example, it's got a 38kWh battery. If battery costs go down by 50% (and they somehow fit a bigger battery in) that's still a 60kWh battery, which gives you a range around 300km


Still way short of the 500-600km mark

I'd say we're about 5 years away from an average EV having 500 km real range. Size and weight will be issues too.

I'd much rather a 60-70 Kwh battery that has a decent charging profile on a 250 Kw charger, but we're a long way from this too so I'd setting for a 60-70 kwh having a decent charging curve at 150 Kw, but wait, we're a long way from this too lol.

the_amazing_raisin

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say we're about 5 years away from an average EV having 500 km real range. Size and weight will be issues too.

I'd much rather a 60-70 Kwh battery that has a decent charging profile on a 250 Kw charger, but we're a long way from this too so I'd setting for a 60-70 kwh having a decent charging curve at 150 Kw, but wait, we're a long way from this too lol.

VW ID.4, 77kWh battery, 125kW DC charging, comes out next January

Cyrus

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd setting for a 60-70 kwh having a decent charging curve at 150 Kw, but wait, we're a long way from this too lol.

the e-tron says hi

ELM327

cruisey1987 wrote: »

VW ID.4, 77kWh battery, 125kW DC charging, comes out next January

Yes but with aggressive tapering if the id3 is anythiung to go by.


The ETron remains the king of the charging peak vs taper.

the_amazing_raisin

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes but with aggressive tapering if the id3 is anythiung to go by.


The ETron remains the king of the charging peak vs taper.

True, but for €30k more it'd want to :eek:

ELM327

Compared to the EQC, the iPace, the Taycan and even Teslas, the etron is much better at maintaining high charge speed over time.

cruisey1987

cruisey1987 wrote: »

VW ID.4, 77kWh battery, 125kW DC charging, comes out next January

Silly price though ?

Cyrus

Cyrus wrote: »

the e-tron says hi

I think we're talking affordable here lol but yeah, the E-Tron and i3 94 + 120 Ah have probably the best charging curve out there atm any more I'm forgetting ?

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

I think we're talking affordable here lol but yeah, the E-Tron and i3 94 + 120 Ah have probably the best charging curve out there atm any more I'm forgetting ?

i3 has a terrible curve, it never gets above 50kW ever. 126a max.

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes but with aggressive tapering if the id3 is anythiung to go by.

Whats your definition of aggressive?

The ID.3 58kWh isnt bad at all for an economy EV...
12% 100kW (405V/250A)
27% 101kW (421V/240A)
36% 93kW(423V/222A)
46% 79kW
53% 72kW
58% 66kW (429V/154A) 19mins for 28kWh added (avg 88kW!)
80% 50kW (447V/114A) 33mins for 40kWh added (avg 72kW)


80kW @ 50% doesnt seem aggressive tapering to me.

The 77kWh pack with 125kW charging should be better than that again.

ELM327

Compared to the etron 50 it's aggressive tapering.
I was watching Bjorns charge tapering videos and the ID3 was one of the slower ones from memory. Depends what you're comparing it to I guess. It's better than the MG, the Zoe, the e208 etc.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

i3 has a terrible curve, it never gets above 50kW ever. 126a max.

That's not the curve, the curve is when power starts to be throttle and how much, how early etc and the i3 94 and 120 Ah pull full power up to around 85% charge which is pretty impressive for a late 2016/early 2017 EV the 120 Ah came out later.

At 90% the i3 is still pulling decent power.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

That's not the curve, the curve is when power starts to be throttle and how much, how early etc and the i3 94 and 120 Ah pull full power up to around 85% charge which is pretty impressive for a late 2016/early 2017 EV the 120 Ah came out later.

At 90% the i3 is still pulling decent power.

the curve is the kW (a *V) delivered over time and over SoC


The i3 finishes well (see Bjorn's recent video) but it loses out in the first 50-60% SOC where most EVs are now charging above 50-70kW

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

the curve is the kW (a *V) delivered over time and over SoC


The i3 finishes well (see Bjorn's recent video) but it loses out in the first 50-60% SOC where most EVs are now charging above 50-70kW

No not my point at all, the i3 94 +120 Ah sustains a high charge rate for it's design more than most electric cars except Etron I don't know any other car that can sustain a high charge rate up to 85%, that is 50 Kw, the 100 Kw id3 tapes off early too meaning it can't sustain the max current for long.

Maybe I'm not getting my point across ?

Silent Running

Deleted User wrote: »

No not my point at all, the i3 94 +120 Ah sustains a high charge rate for it's design more than most electric cars except Etron I don't know any other car that can sustain a high charge rate up to 85%, that is 50 Kw, the 100 Kw id3 tapes off early too meaning it can't sustain the max current for long.

Maybe I'm not getting my point across ?

I think ELM's point is that the i3 never gets to a high charge rate.

Is 50kW high now?

Silent Running

Silent Running wrote: »

I think ELM's point is that the i3 never gets to a high charge rate.

Is 50kW high now?

It's high because most chargers are still only 50 Kw

Kramer

Deleted User wrote: »

I think we're talking affordable here lol but yeah, the E-Tron and i3 94 + 120 Ah have probably the best charging curve out there atm any more I'm forgetting ?

Even the lowly 28kWh Ioniq from 2016 charges faster than an i3. The Ioniq can pull between 60 & 70kW, up to almost 80%.

Konas, eNiros, Peugeots, eCorsas, Model 3s, ID.3s etc. all pull close to 100kWs now, at lower SoC.

But yes, the i3 was impressive maintaining 50kW up to a high SoC, but that was then, this is now. It's been relegated to the annals of history, along with the ReX - a great thing in its day, now defunct :pac:.

Kramer

Kramer wrote: »

Even the lowly 28kWh Ioniq from 2016 charges faster than an i3. The Ioniq can pull between 60 & 70kW, up to almost 80%.

Konas, eNiros, Peugeots, eCorsas, Model 3s, ID.3s etc. all pull close to 100kWs now, at lower SoC.

But yes, the i3 was impressive maintaining 50kW up to a high SoC, but that was then, this is now. It's been relegated to the annals of history, along with the ReX - a great thing in its day, now defunct :pac:.

Ioniq hasn't the Rex haha. :P

Yes, we all know about the high power for a short period of charge but the point I am making is that the i3 94 & 120 Ah allows pretty much max charge right up to 85% and settles to 30-35 Kw after until around 95 Kw it's around 17-20 Kw.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Ioniq hasn't the Rex haha. :P

Yes, we all know about the high power for a short period of charge but the point I am making is that the i3 94 & 120 Ah allows pretty much max charge right up to 85% and settles to 30-35 Kw after until around 95 Kw it's around 17-20 Kw.

"max charge" not if connected to 100kW+ units :rolleyes:

Kramer

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, we all know about the high power for a short period of charge but the point I am making is that the i3 94 & 120 Ah allows pretty much max charge right up to 85%

Yes, but that's an obsolete metric you're using. The tech has moved on & even though the i3 maintains good speed throughout the cycle, it's way behind current comparable EVs.

Take for example the ID.3 58kWh. Similar car, RWD, far cheaper, same category etc.
The ID.3 charges at twice the speed.
It can take on 30kWhs in half the time.
It can go twice as far as the i3, given the same time spent charging.

KCross wrote: »

The ID.3 58kWh isnt bad at all for an economy EV...
19mins for 28kWh added (avg 88kW!)

19 mins would net you 14kWhs in your i3.

There is nothing you can do to improve this, unfortunately, but you do have the ReX, so you won't ever get stuck for a charge anyway .

Are you near Waterford? There's a grand DC charger there apparently - even has a bench & ice cream shop nearby :pac:.

eagerv

Last week when I was at said Garage, there were a few tables at the front and a few at back wall. (None unfortunately at the Charger:P)


Very busy at lunch time and the owner was alternating between tables like a Restaurant "Maitre D", and directing traffic/parking. When he saw me returning to my charging car with a Gourmet Chicken roll and coffee, I got a big wave and thumbs up..:)