ESB eCars

AndyBoBandy

5x eCars Twin AC22's showing as live now at the Pavillions SC in Swords..

Standard AC22 pricing!! Can't see these ever being too busy!!

Surely these would have been ripe for 'free to use', encouraging folks to spend longer at the shopping centre...

If they are located close to the shop entrance, they'll be perfect for the premium parking space though, with the car dialled down to 5amps... there's 10 of them so why not??

the_amazing_raisin

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

5x eCars Twin AC22's showing as live now at the Pavillions SC in Swords..

Standard AC22 pricing!! Can't see these ever being too busy!!

Surely these would have been ripe for 'free to use', encouraging folks to spend longer at the shopping centre...

If they are located close to the shop entrance, they'll be perfect for the premium parking space though, with the car dialled down to 5amps... there's 10 of them so why not??

I must try and check them out. The spaces are right beside the shop entrance in the multistory. Prime location to be iced

2 hours free parking with those spaces, so would be good for people reliant on public charging

MJohnston

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I must try and check them out. The spaces are right beside the shop entrance in the multistory. Prime location to be iced

2 hours free parking with those spaces, so would be good for people reliant on public charging

In fairness, the charging spots in Dundrum TC are in several prime parking locations, yet I've never seen one iced. People aren't too bad about that once the spaces are clearly marked.

That said, I'm sure in a regular Christmas rush, all bets would be off.

markpb

MJohnston wrote: »

In fairness, the charging spots in Dundrum TC are in several prime parking locations, yet I've never seen one iced. People aren't too bad about that once the spaces are clearly marked. That said, I'm sure in a regular Christmas rush, all bets would be off.

Several of them are at the end of a one way system with no entry. That might stop a lot of people

MJohnston

markpb wrote: »

Several of them are at the end of a one way system with no entry. That might stop a lot of people

Yeah, it took me months to figure out that there wasn't another access route to those spaces. The ones down on Level 2 are on the most 'desirable' location though, and hardly ever ICEd.

Though, thanks to the awful design of the car park pillars, if there's some awful SUV in one space, you'd be lucky to fit into the other and still be able to open your doors.

I actually complained about those pillars to the customer service email, didn't expect anything back but the car park manager replied a few weeks ago:

Thank you very much for your email and apologies for the delay in response. Management have noted your feedback and will take this on board during future installations. We are hoping to add more EV charging spaces to our car parks in 2021 and have plans to keep increasing these numbers over the next 3 years. We appreciate this feedback and will try to avoid this during our new installations.

In the meantime, there are 2 other spaces in -2 green car park that are not obstructed by pillars. You might find these easier to park in than those on the red car park.

McGiver

Kramer wrote:

Do you want ECar to increase charges? What will that achieve? It's already largely unviable from what I'm seeing & we, taxpayers are subventing ECars heavily already.

I don't know but it's one of the cheapest in Europe at 0.31/kWh and given Ireland has 2nd highest consumer price levels in the EU (yes, it's true...) it's really cheap.

Below are DC 50 prices, I've taken time and pull them from Plugshare and/or Google Maps and/or various local websites, there may be a variation but you get the gist about pricing.

BE - 0.69/kWh
NL - 0.59/kWh
DE - 0.58/kWh
FR - 0.54/kWh
SV - 0.49/kWh
PL - 0.49/kWh
DA - 0.47/kWh
PT - 0.45/kWh
ES - 0.42/kWh
FI - 0.30/kWh
LT - 0.30/kWh
CZ - 0.29/kWh
ET - 0.24/kWh
LV - 0.24/kWh

AC is generally between 50-70% of the DC price where pricing differs, and HPC is generally at least 150%+ of the DC (bar Fastned I think which is highish flat per KWh rate).

FI is an outlier with Virta. NO is also an exception, seems cheaper with Fortum but it's per min pricing, comes to ~0.30/kWh.

Fun fact - most of the PL network is cofinanced by the EU but whoever got the EU funds is going to run a nice little rip-off at 0.49/kWh, given the regional prices it's very high!

Kramer

This screenshot of the ECars fast charger network, just now, is indicative of how usage differs when it's free.

From the screenshot:

8 chargers in the North, 4 in use. 50% utilisation (free).
60+ down South, with...4 in use! 6% utilisation (charges).



That's with very reasonable DC charges, 35c/kWh. Irish people will rarely use DC fast charging, when they have to pay for it. There's no way it will be commercially viable IMO at current usage levels. Maybe a few Dublin locations & interurban routes will be profitable, but most of the network will need subvention for a long time until EV adoption increases significantly IMO.

AndyBoBandy

I'd say it will take a large scale adoption of EV's by folks who cannot home charge to possibly see the usage go up, but probably just mores on the slower (& cheaper) Tesco network of AC22's, providing that they are close enough to where these people live... I've seen a few cars regularly camped at my local Tesco over the last few weeks plugged into the AC22's (and also plugged into the side that's not been working the last few days)

Someone's been plugged in since 14:19 this afternoon...

Black_Knight

Kramer wrote: »

This screenshot of the ECars fast charger network, just now, is indicative of how usage differs when it's free.

From the screenshot:

8 chargers in the North, 4 in use. 50% utilisation (free).
60+ down South, with...4 in use! 6% utilisation (charges).



That's with very reasonable DC charges, 35c/kWh. Irish people will rarely use DC fast charging, when they have to pay for it. There's no way it will be commercially viable IMO at current usage levels. Maybe a few Dublin locations & interurban routes will be profitable, but most of the network will need subvention for a long time until EV adoption increases significantly IMO.

Blanch, lucan, templeville road, are consistently the highest used paid DC units. This last week the top 7 used DC units are in Dublin. Tesco naas is 8th, and Frankfield hill cork is 9th. Blanch for example has been in use for 38 hours over the last 7 days. Take 10 hours of night time out of it and it's busy about 40% of the day time.

It's not really the climate for much motorway usage, but it does suggest that Dublin is full of those who rely on the public DC network.

graememk

Black_Knight wrote: »

It's not really the climate for much motorway usage, but it does suggest that Dublin is full of those who rely on the public DC network.

Or people that have to travel to Dublin, I'd be able to make Dublin on a charge, but I'd have to charge to get back

Grand for country bumps like myself but doing it the other way things can get sparse...

Black_Knight

graememk wrote: »

Or people that have to travel to Dublin, I'd be able to make Dublin on a charge, but I'd have to charge to get back

Grand for country bumps like myself but doing it the other way things can get sparse...

They're always the most occupied sites. Covid or not. If I were traveling to Dublin, I'd do whatever I could you not use these units.

graememk

Black_Knight wrote: »

They're always the most occupied sites. Covid or not. If I were traveling to Dublin, I'd do whatever I could you not use these units.

Yeah but you know that they are busy. Normal folk don't, drive there and then charge?

For me, Coming from up north down the m1, I'd prob tend towards the ionity because of the 4 stalls (or grab a freebie in NI!)

We normally go via belfast because it's an easier drive/better road.

the_amazing_raisin

graememk wrote: »

Yeah but you know that they are busy. Normal folk don't, drive there and then charge?

For me, Coming from up north down the m1, I'd prob tend towards the ionity because of the 4 stalls (or grab a freebie in NI!)

We normally go via belfast because it's an easier drive/better road.

I think Ionity on the M1 is only 2 stalls, unless they've upgraded

graememk

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I think Ionity on the M1 is only 2 stalls, unless they've upgraded

Haven't been past belfast since march so I stand corrected!

McGiver

Kramer wrote:

That's with very reasonable DC charges, 35c/kWh. Irish people will rarely use DC fast charging, when they have to pay for it. There's no way it will be commercially viable IMO at current usage levels. Maybe a few Dublin locations & interurban routes will be profitable, but most of the network will need subvention for a long time until EV adoption increases significantly IMO.

Yes, but here comes the catch.

No small-medium players will enter the market if Ecars hold the price at 31c. It totally prevents anyone else entering the market. It's a highly subsidised price. That means we're stuck with Ecars who can't properly develop the network. Basically, we've a monopolistic player who doesn't develop the network and who prevents other players entering and developing it. That's a lose-lose in my opinion.

Large players who can sustain losses may enter, but will also set high prices and will have to subside the network anyway - see Ionity. Although, I think Ionity was the last one, can't see anyone else doing this, they represent the majority of carmakers.

ELM327

The other catch is that 31c is probably at the upper end of what most people deem as realistic to pay.

Black_Knight

Just added Tesco Waterford to plugshare. Waterford seems very well supplied with AC units now. 2 DC units too. 7 twin charging AC points. 2 of which are outside the city itself (Tesco - a big retail park, and WIT). There's another AC unit at waterside carpark not ESB operated too.

AndyBoBandy

A helluva lot of Tesco's now have AC22's in them..... How many are they up to now?

In fairness I see my local one busy enough.. by busy enough, I'd probably go there 6 days a week, and maybe 2-3 times there'd be a car or 2 plugged in. Usually the same Kona, i3 & e208, so I'm guessing they don't have home chargers (yet).

MJohnston

I still use the ESB AC22s whenever I'm somewhere they're located. I'm extremely lazy about charging at home and so I'll favour convenience over expense!

The most egregious of these is probably at Dundrum Town Centre — I know full well there are free EasyGo chargers on Level 2, but the ESB AC22s on Level 2M are closer to Tesco and more likely to be unoccupied, so I'll use them most of the time :pac:

Black_Knight

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

A helluva lot of Tesco's now have AC22's in them..... How many are they up to now?

In fairness I see my local one busy enough.. by busy enough, I'd probably go there 6 days a week, and maybe 2-3 times there'd be a car or 2 plugged in. Usually the same Kona, i3 & e208, so I'm guessing they don't have home chargers (yet).

I count 50 from my stats. 1 or 2 might have existed before the agreement. Tesco Maynooth for instance now has 2 units, as 1 already existed. Nearly complete so. 52 was the target.

From here

Ennis, Terrenure, Clane Town Centre, and Birr are not installed.

JPA

Black_Knight wrote: »

Just added Tesco Waterford to plugshare. Waterford seems very well supplied with AC units now. 2 DC units too. 7 twin charging AC points. 2 of which are outside the city itself (Tesco - a big retail park, and WIT). There's another AC unit at waterside carpark not ESB operated too.

I cannot see the charge points at Poleberry and Ballybeg getting much use at all.
Parnell Street AC doesn't get used much already, it's like parking in the middle of the road.

markpb

MJohnston wrote: »

The most egregious of these is probably at Dundrum Town Centre — I know full well there are free EasyGo chargers on Level 2, but the ESB AC22s on Level 2M are closer to Tesco and more likely to be unoccupied, so I'll use them most of the time :pac:

Aren't the ones on level 2 PodPoint 7kW chargers or are there EasyGo chargers somewhere as well? 7kW chargers in a shopping centre seem a little pointless. You'd want to be there for an hours shopping, a meal and a film before you'd meet unkel's 20kw charging rule

ELM327

There are ecars 22kW units there, as well as others.

markpb

I thought there were:
* eCars 22kw (paid for) on level 2M at the wrong end of a one way system
* PodPoint 7kW (free) on level 2

DLR appear to be installing some kind of chargers in the council car park on Sandyford road opposite P.Macs. The space(s) are painted but there were no sign of charge points the last time I was there

Are there others?

MJohnston

markpb wrote: »

I thought there were:
* eCars 22kw (paid for) on level 2M at the wrong end of a one way system
* PodPoint 7kW (free) on level 2

DLR appear to be installing some kind of chargers in the council car park on Sandyford road opposite P.Macs. The space(s) are painted but there were no sign of charge points the last time I was there

Are there others?

You're right they're PodPoint not EasyGo.

I'd note that the "one way system" on 2M is a dead end, so it's not really the wrong end as such, it's just badly marked (but let them keep it that way if it keeps those spaces free :pac:)

There are also chargers just inside the entrance on Green -2 too, which I believe are also free.

innrain

markpb wrote: »

I thought there were:
* eCars 22kw (paid for) on level 2M at the wrong end of a one way system
* PodPoint 7kW (free) on level 2

DLR appear to be installing some kind of chargers in the council car park on Sandyford road opposite P.Macs. The space(s) are painted but there were no sign of charge points the last time I was there

Are there others?

Ecars 2 units (2x22kW). One of the parking spots quite far from the charger after a pillar. you need a >5m cable. https://photos.plugshare.com/photos/415172.jpg
One unit is new, wall mounted like those from Swords. The old one quite temperamental.

PoidPoint ones x7 are load balanced so in a busy day you might get 3kW

There are another 2 in the green car park level -2, just straight after the barrier. Garo unmanaged free

https://www.plugshare.com/location/175388
https://photos.plugshare.com/photos/404826.jpg

Black_Knight

JPA wrote: »

I cannot see the charge points at Poleberry and Ballybeg getting much use at all.
Parnell Street AC doesn't get used much already, it's like parking in the middle of the road.

You should see the Cork city AC charge points! Too few, and the city center one is a parallel park job on a busy road.

McGiver

ELM327 wrote:

The other catch is that 31c is probably at the upper end of what most people deem as realistic to pay.

Which is bizarre given the prices Europe wide compared to the price level and wages here vs elsewhere (here being one of the highest wages as well as price level in the EU).

What would most people deem as realistic? Domestic electricity consumer price? This is business, very specific service provided to the people where otherwise would be none (you can can plug in at home and that's it), there are costs associated (now, ignore the fact that it's a state run monopoly in this case ).

There's a reason why Fastned costs north of 59c per kWh, with a) lower wages and b) lower price level over there. It's business, service provided at a cost. Take it or leave it.

McGiver

Right so the replacement of 2x22 kW AC with the new shiny DC/AC combo in Galway shopping centre seems a bit dodgy. It allegedly can do 50 kW CCS/Chademo and 22 kW AC, as the sticker on it says:
Input - 400V, 108A, 50/60 Hz, 3P+N+PE, 75 kW
Output - AC, 400V, 32A, 22 kW
Output - DC, 50-500V, 0-125A, 50 kW

Means they should have 75 kW power supply but I'm not really sure.

I've tried the CCS and got 13.7 kW in exactly 30 minutes at low SOC, so it should have been taking 45-46 kWh if available, but was taking mere 27 kWh.

unkel

LOL my car can slow AC charge at almost those speeds of the ESB "fast" charger