ESB eCars

the_amazing_raisin

So a week or two ago I decided to test out my Plugsurfing fob on an Ecars charger and it all works well

I noticed yesterday that I haven't paid for it and it doesn't appear in my charge history (hence why I can't remember exactly what day it was)

Did the same again today and it hasn't appeared yet in my history

Has anyone else done this? Did they get billed by Ecars in the end or are they just not bothering to charge the external charging providers?

ELM327

cruisey1987 wrote: »

So a week or two ago I decided to test out my Plugsurfing fob on an Ecars charger and it all works well

I noticed yesterday that I haven't paid for it and it doesn't appear in my charge history (hence why I can't remember exactly what day it was)

Did the same again today and it hasn't appeared yet in my history

Has anyone else done this? Did they get billed by Ecars in the end or are they just not bothering to charge the external charging providers?

It used to work for me and be free, until they added a billing price in the app.
Now it shows as 15c per min + 43c per kWh for the ecars chargers.
Plugsurfing bill you after the fact, sometimes weeks after the fact. I think they are billed monthly by ecars and then they add the session(s) to your plugsurfing account. Plugsurfing is a good last resort if you can't get a strange app or site to work, especially if abroad, but you usually pay a 10-20% premium for that convenience.
Rest assured it won't be free!


(it was a hack to get free charging which I used for several months until they closed it!)

the_amazing_raisin

ELM327 wrote: »

It used to work for me and be free, until they added a billing price in the app.
Now it shows as 15c per min + 43c per kWh for the ecars chargers.
Plugsurfing bill you after the fact, sometimes weeks after the fact. I think they are billed monthly by ecars and then they add the session(s) to your plugsurfing account. Plugsurfing is a good last resort if you can't get a strange app or site to work, especially if abroad, but you usually pay a 10-20% premium for that convenience.
Rest assured it won't be free!


(it was a hack to get free charging which I used for several months until they closed it!)

Thanks, I figured it was something like that. I thought I'd stumbled onto free charging for life there



Bit annoying that it doesn't show up in your charge history, I mean it's not like they're unaware the fob was used


Maybe I'll try the app next and see what happens



Basically I was giving it a go as I might be travelling next year and wanted to make sure my plug surfing fob still works.


The price is definitely NOT right, but it beats having to sign up for some local provider if you're only going to be there for a week or so

ELM327

If you start from the app it shows straight away, the fob takes some time to be added.

I find the rfid particularly handy. It sometimes works on free chargers that no one knows what RFID is to be used.

Gumbo

New units going into Tesco Clearwater, Finglas today.

Black_Knight

Gumbo wrote: »

New units going into Tesco Clearwater, Finglas today.

Added on their app 2 weeks ago. Odd. Maybe just painting it now. Not like there'd big demand for it

MJohnston

Black_Knight wrote: »

Added on their app 2 weeks ago. Odd. Maybe just painting it now. Not like there'd big demand for it

Right off the N2, it's not the worst place for a 22kW charger tbf

Kramer

MJohnston wrote: »

Right off the N2, it's not the worst place for a 22kW charger tbf

It's 7kW for probably 80-90% of cars, maybe 11kW for the handful of new Model 3s/eNiros/ID.3s etc.
Not much bar some rare Teslas & early Zoes can pull 22kW.

I doubt many would alter their journeys to seek out a slow AC point at a Tesco & gain just 40km range, for an hour plugged in to AC.

On a long journey (motorway), it'd basically be 20 minutes driving for an hour plugged in @ 7kW.

If it could support 2x22kW AC, then it could have taken a 45/50kW DC.
That would be have been useful for every EV.

To add insult to injury then, WE (taxpayers), paid for these & again pay to use them, while Lidl provide these at their own expense & offer charging for free to their customers, as an added benefit for shopping with them.

These Tesco points are all but useless & I resent having my taxes spent this way.
NOT ONE SINGLE HUB YET :mad:.

unkel

Can I only thank that ^^^ the one time?

Donall.ID.3

I know this was discussed before, but just wanted some confirmation or if something had changed.
If I'm using an Ecars 50kw charge point. I plug into my CCS car. 10 mins later a Leaf driver plugs in what happens to my charging. I assumed the Nissan Leaf driver wouldn't be able activate the charge point and visa versa, if I came along when a Nissan leaf was plugged in? I could not activate the CCS plug?

unkel

Yeah the Leaf can knock you off. This has been a known bug for years, reported to the ESB many times. They haven't done anything about it. Does that surprise us?

The only thing you can do to prevent it, is to stay with your car and if a Leaf arrives who wants to plug in, make sure to explain it to them so they won't plug in and knock you off. And if they don't believe you and are still about to plug in, you will have to resort to some physical violence.

Kramer

unkel wrote: »

And if they don't believe you and are still about to plug in, you will have to resort to some physical violence.

While wearing your mask of course & maintaining social distance .

Kramer

A still, taken from EVTV's Youtube video in his thread............

So, not only do you have to pay to use this taxpayer funded charge point, you also have to pay to park there (I thought these were Tesco locations?).
Now, it's possible you also might need a canoe to get back to your car - it rains a lot there, & floods.

Anyway, it's a brand new install, state of the art, Gridserve are only amateurs with their 36 car hub in the UK. Do they really think any privately funded company can outmuscle a state owned, taxpayer funded, charging network?

Yes, I give you, our latest & greatest piece of EV charging infrastructure...........in Mallow.............in the great county of Cork..............



Shameful .
It's actually beyond embarrassing at this stage .

unkel

Shure we've come a long way. This was Ireland in the 80s

Donall.ID.3

unkel wrote: »

Yeah the Leaf can knock you off. This has been a known bug for years, reported to the ESB many times. They haven't done anything about it. Does that surprise us?

The only thing you can do to prevent it, is to stay with your car and if a Leaf arrives who wants to plug in, make sure to explain it to them so they won't plug in and knock you off. And if they don't believe you and are still about to plug in, you will have to resort to some physical violence.

Thank you for the reply.

I did explain to the person in the Leaf at the fermoy charge point this afternoon, once they plug in and activate the charge my CCS charging will Stop.
But she told me her Husband is a car sales man who is an expert and of course one car can use the chademo and the CCS at same time with no issues.
She just proceeded to plug in, my charge stopped.

Really takes the shine off Ev ownership not having a fit for purpose public charge points.

fricatus

unkel wrote: »

Shure we've come a long way. This was Ireland in the 80s

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2018/08/14/tesla-launches-turf-driven-car-for-irish-market/

the_amazing_raisin

Donall.ID.3 wrote: »

Thank you for the reply.

I did explain to the person in the Leaf at the fermoy charge point this afternoon, once they plug in and activate the charge my CCS charging will Stop.
But she told me her Husband is a car sales man who is an expert and of course one car can use the chademo and the CCS at same time with no issues.
She just proceeded to plug in, my charge stopped.

Really takes the shine off Ev ownership not having a fit for purpose Public charge points.

Her husband certainly sounds like a typical car salesman

MJohnston

Has anyone ever confirmed the cost division of those Tesco ESB chargers? Do we actually know if they’re taxpayer funded?

Black_Knight

Donall.ID.3 wrote: »

Thank you for the reply.

I did explain to the person in the Leaf at the fermoy charge point this afternoon, once they plug in and activate the charge my CCS charging will Stop.
But she told me her Husband is a car sales man who is an expert and of course one car can use the chademo and the CCS at same time with no issues.
She just proceeded to plug in, my charge stopped.

Really takes the shine off Ev ownership not having a fit for purpose public charge points.

Had a similar experience in Athlone. I had just started charging. Leaf pulled up and looked like they were going to start charging. I told him only 1 dc can charge at a time, and if he tries he'll knock me off. So I went in to get a cuppa tea, and the app tells me my charge is complete. I hurried out to confront, ready to push the red button and he played very dumb, with lots of laughing from him, but he apologised... As I killed his charge (the screen was still displayed allowing me to stop charging). Said he was going to plug in and go down the shopping centre for a few hours. Moron! There's an AC unit right beside the DC in Athlone.

I've not done it, but cable ties is an option to restrict the CHAdeMO plug while CCS is in use

AndyBoBandy

I was using the Hyperloop in Kilcullen one day (CCS), and a lady pulled in beside me in a leaf, and politely asked me that if she started using the CHAdeMO would it knock off my CCS session.. I told her that as it’s a new warp speed machine, it allows both CCS & CHAdeMO to charge at the same time... so it seems some are aware of the issue on the 50kW units..

I was already pulling 66kW (and falling) at that stage so saw zero impact to my speed when she plugged in..

AndyBoBandy

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I was using the Hyperloop in Kilcullen one day (CCS), and a lady pulled in beside me in a leaf, and politely asked me that if she started using the CHAdeMO would it knock off my CCS session.. I told her that as it’s a new warp speed machine, it allows both CCS & CHAdeMO to charge at the same time... so it seems some are aware of the issue on the 50kW units..

I was already pulling 66kW (and falling) at that stage so saw zero impact to my speed when she plugged in..

Careful now, I got pulled here on Boards for calling a Woman a Lady, seriously, you couldn't make it up but It actually happened, it's old fashioned, backward seemingly and offensive and shouldn't be used......:D actually I said "Ladies" in the thread title. Always have to be careful here on boards there's always someone watching, waiting to trip you up or make something huge out of nothing.


Indeed depending on what EVs are plugged in, what SOC and battery temp.

So if the Leaf E+ plugs in and maxes out at around 70 Kw ( briefly ) does this mean the CCS can get 80 Kw ?

I suppose it's not a big issue now because very few cars are capable of 100 Kw for any length of time but it's very short sighted installing 150 Kw chargers with load splitting.

Do People feel it's good value for taxpayers money ? should the best be installed now to make the network future proof ?

the_amazing_raisin

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Indeed depending on what EVs are plugged in, what SOC and battery temp.

So if the Leaf E+ plugs in and maxes out at around 70 Kw ( briefly ) does this mean the CCS can get 80 Kw ?

I suppose it's not a big issue now because very few cars are capable of 100 Kw for any length of time but it's very short sighted installing 150 Kw chargers with load splitting.

Do People feel it's good value for taxpayers money ? should the best be installed now to make the network future proof ?

I think the problem is more down to how they've implemented the load splitting. It seems to go for 50-50 whereas priority should be given to whichever car was plugged in first.

So of a Leaf E+ is charging at 70kW, and an ID.3 comes along it should only be allowed to charge at 80kW until the Leaf throttles, and then should be given the full power

Going the other way, of the ID.3 is there first and is charging at 100kW, the Leaf should only be allowed the remaining 50kW

zg3409

Deleted User wrote: »

Do People feel it's good value for taxpayers money ? should the best be installed now to make the network future proof ?

Biggest fear is queuing at busy or broken 50kW+ chargers. On city to city routes they need a few key sites with 3+ 50kW chargers. Ideally multiple 150kW chargers. 50kW is a bit obsolete now, 10 year old systems. Many new cars peak over that. Load share makes sense to maximise the cost of the charger and handy if one car is abandoned.

I think 350kW chargers would be overkill. A hub is needed, and that needs at least 4 cars charging at once at 50+ kW chargers. They also need to be planned for 4/6/8 chargers in next few years.

The 150kW chargers they picked split to 2 separate 75kW Max chargers if a second car connects. They can't really load share. One car needs to be chademo and other CCS. The charger comes with options for more cables so 2 x CCS plus 2 x Chademo could have been installed.

Black_Knight

So far I've seen little signs that we need to focus on putting more than 2 units per site. Those that have 2 units per site are far from being heavily used. Hubs are needed so there's no such thing as a queue, but there are many sites which currently are quite highly utilised, which would benefit from a second unit.

Galway plaza has been fully DC occupied for 3 hours in the last 7 days.
Portlaoise similar.
Kilcullen for 9 hours

As something to benchmark against, Blanchardstown has been in DC use for 1.5 days of the last 7. Frankfield hill in Cork (arguably more of a "motorway pitstop" than Blanchardstown) in DC use (ie. Charming) 1.5 days too! Those need second units more than portlaoise needs a 4 bay hub.


Very interested to see what Christmas brings. Covid has certainly reduced the usage on the DC network.

Kramer

Black_Knight wrote: »

Galway plaza has been fully DC occupied for 3 hours in the last 7 days.
Portlaoise similar.
Kilcullen for 9 hours

When you say fully DC occupied, do you mean both 75kW parts of the 150kW charger plus the 50kW DC beside it are in simultaneous use, i.e. 3 cars DC charging at the same time?
Or that the 150kW unit is in use, likely by a single car, in addition to the old 50kW DC charger, i.e. 2 cars?

Kramer

The problem arises if a Leaf is on the 50kW unit, only one CCS car can then charge. If you arrive 5 minutes after a Kona has started charging, it'll likely stay at least 45 minutes (avoiding the penalty fee).

Having to wait up to 45 minutes before you can even start to charge, making you need a 90+ minute stop, is a problem. Knowing that site is only fully occupied a few hours a week isn't much solace if you're facing that 90 minute stop.

This, at a brand new services area, with brand new updated charging infrastructure, as we go into 2021, with EV sales continuing to increase, is a problem IMO & we'll be well up the creek again, sans paddle, by 2023, just as ECars claim they'll be finishing off their roll out plan .

Those new 150kW units should have been configured with 3 cables, 2 CCS & 1 Chademo, with any 2 being available for simultaneous use. Three dedicated spaces too should have been allocated to them, 2 in front & one behind, if cable length was an issue.

That way, with just 1 extra cable & one extra space, 3 CCS cars could have DC charged at that site, or 2 CCS + 1 Chademo, or 1 CCS + 2 Chademo. Some extra paint & a cable would have increased the availability by 50%.

New sites IMO should have 2 each of these Delta 150kW chargers, configured with 4 dedicated spaces, 1 unit 2x CCS, the other 1x CCS & 1x Chademo (until the Leafs begin to disappear). Then we'd be getting somewhere.

Next year....................coming soon...................promise............:D.

the_amazing_raisin

I still think you need at least 2 Chademo plugs in each site, if one is broken then you've no backup, and for a Leaf24 that typically means you can't make the next charger

Black_Knight

Kramer wrote: »

When you say fully DC occupied, do you mean both 75kW parts of the 150kW charger plus the 50kW DC beside it are in simultaneous use, i.e. 3 cars DC charging at the same time?
Or that the 150kW unit is in use, likely by a single car, in addition to the old 50kW DC charger, i.e. 2 cars?

Apologies. The query returns whether a DC socket is unavailable or not. So when filtering by CCS, if kilcullen showed as in use that's what I'm capturing. Similar story with filtering by CHAdeMO. So basically, for 9 hours this week at kilcullen, a DC car (CCS or CHAdeMO, not broken down at this level) would not have been able to charge.

Good shout though, I'll break that down on the site now.

Kramer

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I still think you need at least 2 Chademo plugs in each site, if one is broken then you've no backup, and for a Leaf24 that typically means you can't make the next charger

OK, OK, we'll stick a 7kW Type 2 AC socket there for you too (or is the Leaf 24 Type 1?).

:P.

Kramer

Black_Knight wrote: »

So basically, for 9 hours this week at kilcullen, a DC car (CCS or CHAdeMO, not broken down at this level) would not have been able to charge.

It's doubtful 3 cars were using DC simultaneously IMO, but possible. The split Delta chargers may just show "occupied" or "unavailable", whether one or both halves are in use.
Or not.

It's ECars so..........:pac:.

Then again, if CCS cars are on both the 50kW & 150kW Delta, no further CCS car can charge, so returning "unavailable" would be reasonable.
Similarly, two Chademo cars on both units would mean no additional Chademo car could charge.

A third CCS car could charge though, if physically able to reach the cable.