ESB eCars

Black_Knight

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So what's the deal with these new DC chargers, it's got ChaDeMo and CCS and 2 Kw on AC ?

If someone is charging on 2 Kw AC then no one can use DC ? is this for real ?

I'll say again, it's 22kW AC after their software update which these new one have. Still a handful don't though.

If someone is charging on AC it could block a DC car from charging, depending on port accessibility, but if you can plug in, you load balanced. Eg. AC takes 7kW, so ~43kW available on DC. That's the theory, not sure about the practical application though

MJohnston

Black_Knight wrote: »

I'll say again, it's 22kW AC after their software update which these new one have. Still a handful don't though.

If someone is charging on AC it could block a DC car from charging, depending on port accessibility, but if you can plug in, you load balanced. Eg. AC takes 7kW, so ~43kW available on DC. That's the theory, not sure about the practical application though

This makes it even more egregious that they didn’t position these chargers to be accessible from both front and back parking spaces. The AC port being on the side means it’s very easily used from the back.

Black_Knight

MJohnston wrote: »

This makes it even more egregious that they didn’t position these chargers to be accessible from both front and back parking spaces. The AC port being on the side means it’s very easily used from the back.

They just upgraded old AC units. The positioning was never going to be 100% suitable.. or anything near that. The fake sound of progress.

innrain

Black_Knight wrote: »

I'll say again, it's 22kW AC after their software update which these new one have. Still a handful don't though.

If someone is charging on AC it could block a DC car from charging, depending on port accessibility, but if you can plug in, you load balanced. Eg. AC takes 7kW, so ~43kW available on DC. That's the theory, not sure about the practical application though

Cavan, Kilkenny, Waterford are listed as 6kW(on the 3phase so 2kW single phase); they are the first batch of 44kW DC units. Do you think it is a software issue?

Black_Knight

innrain wrote: »

Cavan, Kilkenny, Waterford are listed as 6kW(on the 3phase so 2kW single phase); they are the first batch of 44kW DC units. Do you think it is a software issue?

ESB confirmed so. I asked whether they'd be rolling out the software to the existing ones and they said yes. Though as always, don't hold your breath.

Black_Knight

Don't look now. Seems like a big outrage from esb. A few chargers showing up as online, most unavailable status, but overall the units are not loaded on the site and the app isn't loading either (same reason).

rocketspocket

Heuston is getting 2 new ABB Terra 54 CJG chargers (in packaging at the moment). I understand these are 50KW DC Fast chargers but does anyone know if they also allow 22KW AC charging when the DC charger is in use (i.e. 2 cars charging in parallel)?

liamog

rocketspocket wrote: »

Heuston is getting 2 new ABB Terra 54 CJG chargers (in packaging at the moment). I understand these are 50KW DC Fast chargers but does anyone know if they also allow 22KW AC charging when the DC charger is in use (i.e. 2 cars charging in parallel)?

Whether the unit allows it or not is largely down to decisions made by eCars, for instance the units that eCars have replaced the 2x22kW AC with a DC unit can be specced as 50kW (capable of 2x25kW) and a 43kW tethered AC all at once. They don't buy this model, as they were looking to stay inside the same site electrical constraints as the previous 2x22kW AC unit.

McGiver

rocketspocket wrote: »

Heuston is getting 2 new ABB Terra 54 CJG chargers (in packaging at the moment). I understand these are 50KW DC Fast chargers but does anyone know if they also allow 22KW AC charging when the DC charger is in use (i.e. 2 cars charging in parallel)?

I believe the new "replacement" chargers are now 50 kW DC and 22 kW AC, I've taken snaps of that in Galway, there was a sticker with the ratings there. Not sure how the AC/DC load balancing works though.

Saying that - why would there be a fast charger on a railway station??? Railway stations should have banks of 3/7 kW AC not a single DC! What's the point of a single DC there? I see ECars are good at planning and futureproofing.

Kramer

Black_Knight wrote: »

[eCars] Still keeping busy putting in pointless AC units at supermarkets.

Can/do you poll the AC charge points? I bet their utilisation is very, very low.

AndyBoBandy

Kramer wrote: »

Can/do you poll the AC charge points? I bet their utilisation is very, very low.

Surprisingly enough my local Tesco one is fairly busy, with a Kona & an i3 regularly using it.... I’m guessing they don’t have home charging. If so it’s a shame the rate isn’t very competitive.... EV ownership is now really only for those that have the ability to home charge.. and this niche market of. I home charge options will be the only ones ever using the Tesco ones.

the_amazing_raisin

Yesterday I saw a Mercedes PHEV charging at the fast charger near Donabate.

I was very confused at the logic behind that, as I recall, they can charge at around 3kW and have a 9kWh battery. Also the AC price on those units is the same, 30c/kWh

So 3 hours to gain maybe 25km of range at the most expensive charging price around. About €2.70 for 25km of driving, what was the point of that???

AndyBoBandy

Not to mention the overtstay after 45 minutes...
(Does the overstay fee apply to the AC43’s?)

innrain

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Yesterday I saw a Mercedes PHEV charging at the fast charger near Donate.

I was very confused at the logic behind that, as I recall, they can charge at around 3kW and have a 9kWh battery. Also the AC price on those units is the same, 30c/kWh

So 3 hours to gain maybe 25km of range at the most expensive charging price around. About €2.70 for 25km of driving, what was the point of that???

I saw a Merc charging at J14. I was just leaving, it was pissing rain so I stopped from the app and ran to unplug. They took minutes to plug somewhere around the boot. Thought of it as odd. I hope no Zoe would have need that charger.

MJohnston

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Yesterday I saw a Mercedes PHEV charging at the fast charger near Donate.

I was very confused at the logic behind that, as I recall, they can charge at around 3kW and have a 9kWh battery. Also the AC price on those units is the same, 30c/kWh

So 3 hours to gain maybe 25km of range at the most expensive charging price around. About €2.70 for 25km of driving, what was the point of that???

IMO - they’re driving a Merc, so they’re probably unwilling to charge on anything but the fastest, bestest charger there is, even if it makes no practical sense. Because nothing says flash over practicality like buying a Merc.

the_amazing_raisin

MJohnston wrote: »

IMO - they’re driving a Merc, so they’re probably unwilling to charge on anything but the fastest, bestest charger there is, even if it makes no practical sense. Because nothing says flash over practicality like buying a Merc.

I guess Merc drivers would be used to overpaying for everything

kanuseeme

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Not to mention the overtstay after 45 minutes...
(Does the overstay fee apply to the AC43’s?)

Good question, Mercedes c350e only has a 6.4 kWh battery, it would take 2 hours at least to charge.

liamog

McGiver wrote: »

I believe the new "replacement" chargers are now 50 kW DC and 22 kW AC, I've taken snaps of that in Galway, there was a sticker with the ratings there. Not sure how the AC/DC load balancing works though.

Saying that - why would there be a fast charger on a railway station??? Railway stations should have banks of 3/7 kW AC not a single DC! What's the point of a single DC there? I see ECars are good at planning and futureproofing.

If they're going in the same place as the current chargers, then they aren't really train station chargers, it's a good location for a bank of DC chargers for taxi use.

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

If they're going in the same place as the current chargers, then they aren't really train station chargers, it's a good location for a bank of DC chargers for taxi use.

Yeah I was wondering if there is even any parking around Heuston station? As I recall there's only a few on street spaces on the streets nearby

I guess it would be suitable for taxis then, since they'll want a quick charge

garo

I first genuinely became interested in EVs when I sat in a Leaf gen 2 taxi a couple of years ago. The dirver told me that the car gives him about 250km and he rarely drives more than 200km so is happy to charge at home overnight. I would say that City taxis are probably not going to want to use fast chargers. Those making out of county trips from Heuston might.

liamog

garo wrote: »

I first genuinely became interested in EVs when I sat in a Leaf gen 2 taxi a couple of years ago. The dirver told me that the car gives him about 250km and he rarely drives more than 200km so is happy to charge at home overnight. I would say that City taxis are probably not going to want to use fast chargers. Those making out of county trips from Heuston might.

The charger at Dublin airport was often occupied by Taxi's, I suspect it's less of a need to charge, and more of a I'm spending 30 mins taking a break and may as well charge whilst doing so.

the_amazing_raisin

liamog wrote: »

The charger at Dublin airport was often occupied by Taxi's, I suspect it's less of a need to charge, and more of a I'm spending 30 mins taking a break and may as well charge whilst doing so.

I wonder did that decrease when the paid charging came in? I must check the next time I'm driving through the airport

I'd say it's a combination of charging during breaks and trying to keep a decent charge in case you get a fare to Dundalk or something like that

AndyBoBandy

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Yeah I was wondering if there is even any parking around Heuston station? As I recall there's only a few on street spaces on the streets nearby

There’s a huge carpark at the back of it....

McGiver

liamog wrote:

If they're going in the same place as the current chargers, then they aren't really train station chargers, it's a good location for a bank of DC chargers for taxi use.

Yeah of course we'd all like 10 DC chargers,but that's not the reality, that's unicorns.

In reality, on the ground, it's just ONE bloody DC charger!

The same old story/issue - what's better in terms of utility and progression of the EVs in this kind of place given 50 kW power supply constraint?

A) ONE 50 kW DC charger
SIXTEEN 3 kW or SEVEN 7 kW AC chargers

I strongly believe B is the answer. Or a compromise one 22 kW DC and a bank of AC, nine 3 kW or four 7 kW AC.
But single DC only with no AC on top is pointless in urban context.

DC should be on motorways or petrol stations.

liamog

There's a long discussion thread if you want to get in to the minutia of urban DC vs AC charging https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=114365033

In the context of this thread it was in response to reports to the poster who reported

rocketspocket wrote: »

Heuston is getting 2 new ABB Terra 54 CJG chargers (in packaging at the moment). I understand these are 50KW DC Fast chargers but does anyone know if they also allow 22KW AC charging when the DC charger is in use (i.e. 2 cars charging in parallel)?

I'd certainly gain more value from 2 DC chargers at the front of Heuston station, than I would form even a bank of 300 7kW AC chargers in the car park. An EV taxi driver would probably definitely see it this way.

rocketspocket

liamog wrote: »

There's a long discussion thread if you want to get in to the minutia of urban DC vs AC charging https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=114365033

In the context of this thread it was in response to reports to the poster who reported

I'd certainly gain more value from 2 DC chargers at the front of Heuston station, than I would form even a bank of 300 7kW AC chargers in the car park. An EV taxi driver would probably definitely see it this way.

The 2 new Chargers are being installed next to the current 22KW AC Charger in the car park at rear of the station..

ELM327

22kW is silly at a train station. Too fast to be slow and too slow to be fast

I'd prefer a rake of 3 & 7kW chargers and a couple of DC

AndyBoBandy

ELM327 wrote: »

22kW is silly at a train station. Too fast to be slow and too slow to be fast

I'd prefer a rake of 3 & 7kW chargers and a couple of DC

a bank of at least 10x 7kw chargers for the all day parkers, with no time limit on them, and then 2 DC triple head units for folks that are there simply to pick someone up and who'll only be there for 15-30 minutes, as well as for Taxi drivers...

Thats what I think they should be doing with all the older AC units that have since been replaced with the newer current units.... throttle them to 3 or 7kW, and install them all in train stations or park and ride facilities... as what else are they doing with them? just scrapping them? And if the units are 3 or 7kW, offer a cheaper rate than the current AC22 rate, to encourage folks to use them....

zg3409

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

.. as what else are they doing with them? just scrapping them? And if the units are 3 or 7kW, offer a cheaper rate than the current AC22 rate, to encourage folks to use them....

The old AC units are obsolete and parts are no longer available. They seemed to replace the ones that had been broken for years first, and then replaced a lot of the rest. I assume they kept some of them as donor parts and to fix units in NI which all have not been upgraded and many are down for years. I presume they don't want the unreliability as the cost of a site visit must be close to the cost of a new unit.

They were trying to fix old bad units at a repair specialists in Glasnevin. These attempted to repair to component level and get a working one from multiple bad ones. The cost to repair would have been relatively high, but this was before they had newer models available.

Their policy seems to be no new sites except new motorway services, and make the most of existing sites. Old AC units are probably not viable for new sites and they probably need the bits for existing sites.

I think part of the non rollout of 4+ AC chargers per site is due to usage and profit analysis. One pillar per site might be busy, but 3 or 4 won't all be busy. They added a second AC pillar in heuston (offline now) probably due to demand and ESB supply availability, and they installed a big bank of AC at pavillions shopping centre swords (see plugshare app for photos) capable of charging 10 cars at once at 22kW AC (possibly load limited). I presume they are gearing up for a sale of the network at some point, rather than trying to providesites
gh availability reliable network to drive the switch to higher EV usage. Its capitalism vs communism. I expect the tesco rollout is tesco green washing and ESB getting their foot in the door with an exclusive contract for later sale or conversion to 50kW DC units when the financial numbers make sense. If the future of local charging is 50kW DC at supermarkets, they are well placed to own a significant portion of sites.

the_amazing_raisin

zg3409 wrote: »

Their policy seems to be no new sites except new motorway services, and make the most of existing sites.

I think this is the fundamental issue a lot of people have with the ESB network. It's good they're replacing the broken chargers, but it's pretty rich to call that an upgrade

They need to be rolling out more locations, there's gaps in the network everywhere and in most locations there's only a single fast charger