Liam Neeson has landed himself in a spot of trouble

El_Duderino 09

SoundsRight wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Entirely normal to want to beat any black man because of the crime of another black man?

Part of me wants to challenge you because I want to believe you're exaggerating. But I also think you might actually mean what you're saying.

Just to clarify, do you really mean it's Entirely normal to want to beat any black man because of the crime of another black man?

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that it would be a normal, human reaction if a female close to you experienced one of the worst things imaginable. And he wasn't looking to attack any black guy, he wanted them to start him, to instigate it.

Amazing.

Do you at least agree it was a racist reaction?

Mad_maxx

John Barnes spoke on sky news about this and defended Liam Neeson

Personally I think Neeson should be far more savy but I don't think he was being racist, he was illustrating the fact that his behaviour at the time was racist and how he is now horrified about how he felt

Gwynplaine

Powerful agents to the uninitiated

mordeith

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Amazing.

Do you at least agree it was a racist reaction?

No it's not. If the victim hadn't identified the race of her attacker then yes it would have been racist.
Let's say she went to the police. They ask her for a description. She says it was a black man. They immediately focus their attention on black men. That's just logical. Neeson's thoughts of getting the guy may not have been terribly rational but he knew it was a black man he was looking for. He don't actually attack anyone.

Muckka

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You don't think it was a normal reaction and you think it MIGHT have been an overreaction.

He actually prepared to beat any man of an entire race because one of them committed a crime. How long was carrying a weapon and looking to beat a black lad? 5 minutes? An hour? A week? Isnt it lucky he didnt actually get into a disagreement with a black man in that time.

I presume you agree that actually beating a black man would DEFINITELY been a bit of an over reaction. But it's worth asking.


Who knows? Maybe a toiletry manufacturer will make an ad that doesn't spend enough time complementing white men. The we'd see the toys fly out of the pram.

Ah come on now you're overreaction to my post is only trying to be a bit dramatic.

You're drawing all sorts of conclusions to my post, making out Liam's a bold boy and going from 5 minutes to a week...

I think it's just all blown out of proportion.

He wasn't going to beat anyone, you can't say that.

He didn't entertain what he was ashamed of, isn't that enough.

You're quite creative with your reaction to my post.

That's how fake news and bad journalism works, but if it's working for you carry on with your hybridisation of reality...

Pop a red pill it might be enlightening

gimli2112

Succubus_ wrote: »

I was just thinking of the woman who was raped. She's probably reliving all of this and the trauma of the rape. I wonder how she's feeling.

She died 5 years ago according to the BBC.

zapitastas

Mad_maxx wrote: »

John Barnes spoke on sky news about this and defended Liam Neeson

Personally I think Neeson should be far more savy but I don't think he was being racist, he was illustrating the fact that his behaviour at the time was racist and how he is now horrified about how he felt

Didn't see that but I have been impressed from seeing John Barnes speak previously about racism.

evil_seed

The outrage brigade are missing everything he said.
1. He explains growing up in the North that the revenge mentally was bred into him
2. His friend was raped. Now look at point one.
3. He asked for a description and got one. Now look at point one and two.
4. He knows it was a horrible way to act. Now look at point one. And he thinks this is a horrible way to act. Now look at point one. He still said it wa a horrible way to act.
5. He's promoting a movie. Now read points one to four. Then re-read one to five.

Grayson

rob316 wrote: »

If someone raped someone close to you or who you love, your thoughts wouldn't be the least bit rational either, I know mine wouldn't anyway.

I agree. I don't know if I would have acted the way he did, but I'd imagine a lot of people wouldn't be able to say.

It's a reaction to something horrible happening and then wanting anyone to pay for it.

I don't think he's a bad person or a racist. If he'd held onto those thoughts and still wanted to do something then yes, but he admits what he felt was wrong and that it was bad. And thankfully no-one got hurt because if it. If someone had got hurt then we'd be having a completely different discussion.

pleas advice

I wonder would he be considered 'ableist' if it was a one-armed man who did it

dermo888

He told the truth, whats the harm in that? Even John Barnes, a man I'd rarely agree with is taking his side.

I'll say this much, it takes some balls in this day and age to admit such a thing.

El_Duderino 09

Muckka wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You don't think it was a normal reaction and you think it MIGHT have been an overreaction.

He actually prepared to beat any man of an entire race because one of them committed a crime. How long was carrying a weapon and looking to beat a black lad? 5 minutes? An hour? A week? Isnt it lucky he didnt actually get into a disagreement with a black man in that time.

I presume you agree that actually beating a black man would DEFINITELY been a bit of an over reaction. But it's worth asking.


Who knows? Maybe a toiletry manufacturer will make an ad that doesn't spend enough time complementing white men. The we'd see the toys fly out of the pram.

Ah come on now you're overreaction to my post is only trying to be a bit dramatic.

You're drawing all sorts of conclusions to my post, making out Liam's a bold boy and going from 5 minutes to a week...


He didn't entertain what he was ashamed of, isn't that enough.

You're quite creative with your reaction to my post.

It wasn't a conclusion, it was a question. How long was he carrying around a weapon hoping a black man would give him an excuse to use it? A moment of madness lasting 5 minutes would be one thing. If it lasted days or a week it would be quite different.

Similar to the difference between a crime of passion and a premeditated crime.

El_Duderino 09

pleas advice wrote: »

I wonder would he be considered 'ableist' if it was a one-armed man who did it

Depends. If he went out with a weapon looking for any disabled person to start on him so he could beat the disabled person with the weapon, then yes. Obviously.

hatrickpatrick

I'm assuming all the people condemning Neeson outright for even thinking like this can categorically remember and state that when they were shown his movie Michael Collins in school, they weren't fleetingly filled with bloodlust against England after the scenes in Croke Park or Dublin Castle? They never thought "God, I could murder an English scumbag right now" or anything like that? I'm pretty sure most of my own peers can attest that this was our reaction upon first being shown that film as well as Wind That shakes The Barley in our youth, and that we quickly returned to being civilised individuals once the adrenaline wore off.

It's never something to be proud of, but seeing as tribalism is innate in the evolution of human behaviour it's also not something surprising or something people can control in that moment when the blood's up. It's how it shapes ones subsequent views as one matures which counts towards whether someone is a bad person or not, and clearly Neeson quickly realised that the primal reaction he was experiencing was a terrible human emotion which has to be suppressed.

The fact that her went out looking for a fight is very f*cked up, but the mere entertaining of bigoted thoughts like this in the immediate, adrenaline fuelled aftermath of witnessing or hearing about such an incident is a very human reaction, and something i imagine most people can remember from younger days.

Outlaw Pete

He was on GMA earlier..

https://twitter.com/GMA/status/1092833244012109825

El_Duderino 09

mordeith wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Amazing.

Do you at least agree it was a racist reaction?

No it's not. If the victim hadn't identified the race of her attacker then yes it would have been racist.
Let's say she went to the police. They ask her for a description. She says it was a black man. They immediately focus their attention on black men. That's just logical. Neeson's thoughts of getting the guy may not have been terribly rational but he knew it was a black man he was looking for. He don't actually attack anyone.

Wanting to take revenge on any black man because of a crime committed by one black man, isnt a racist reaction? Christ on a bike. I can't imagine what it would take to be a racist reaction In your opinion.

Police analogy is absolutely bunk. If the police went out looking for an excuse to beat any black man for the crime of another black man, that would obviously be a racist reaction. If you can't see that then.... I dunno.

mordeith

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

They never thought "God, I could murder an English scumbag right now"

I thought that after watching Braveheart and I'm not even Scottish

AllForIt

Unfortunately he said this at our current strange time in our history where public discourse is completely saturated with talk of racism/prejudice etc so we might not hear the end of this for quite some time.

I do feel specifically with the black not so much brown demographic, that as actual black racism recedes over the last few decades (think back to the time when Stephen Lawrance was murdered) that there are some who seem to mourn the passing of the really bad days and thus wish to keep the issue of black racism in the spotlight as far as they possibly can for their advantage. As if they see other racisms, brown Muslim racism for example, are taking over and they don't like to be pushed to the back. Just look at the debate around black knife crime in London. Black activists explain all this away as deprivation in those areas and that that deprivation is due to black racism alone, taking heat off, and inducing sympathy for, those involved in the worst crime possible, murder. Despicable politiciing imo over such a serious case of lawlessness.

I think it has got to the stage that one may as well say out loud that one is black racist when black activists say we all are anyway. I think it's not a bad idea as a response to being accused of being unconsciously racist as it shows how ludicrous a suggestion it is. This incidentally is the exact same tactic used by Louise O'Neil in relation to misogyny. I don't know how white men can actually function when their brains are so full of every prejudice under the sun.

I'm not too hot on Liam Neeson as an actor myself. He was good in Schindler's List but then it was a very good movie and a great role to play. Those Taken movies are absolutely not my thing. I find him quite weak and implausible as the leading role in those movies. If his career suffers I wouldn't be too pushed. I do think that his remarks although believable if not maybe somewhat embellished for effect, the timing and context within which he made them were clearly calculated.

Muckka

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It wasn't a conclusion, it was a question. How long was he carrying around a weapon hoping a black man would give him an excuse to use it? A moment of madness lasting 5 minutes would be one thing. If it lasted days or a week it would be quite different.

Similar to the difference between a crime of passion and a premeditated crime.

40 years ago I think it would have been pretty hard to bump into a black man in northern Ireland unless he was a Paratrooper or something like that.

zapitastas

He should have elaborated on what it would have taken for him to best someone to death. Are we talking a black man trying to rape Liam Neeson or simply bumping into him. His story about prowling the streets for a week seems stretching the truth

El_Duderino 09

Muckka wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It wasn't a conclusion, it was a question. How long was he carrying around a weapon hoping a black man would give him an excuse to use it? A moment of madness lasting 5 minutes would be one thing. If it lasted days or a week it would be quite different.

Similar to the difference between a crime of passion and a premeditated crime.

40 years ago I think it would have been pretty hard to bump into a black man in northern Ireland unless he was a Paratrooper or something like that.

I've no idea why you quoted me in that post. Absolutely nothing to do with my post.

The desire to minimise and normalise the reaction is genuinely unnerving.

Muckka

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I've no idea why you quoted me in that post. Absolutely nothing to do with my post.

The desire to minimise and normalise the reaction is genuinely unnerving.

That's ok sure we both have different opinions, and I see nothing wrong with yours.

What I meant about the paratrooper was, that would have been the odds of him meeting a black man in the north 40 years ago....

I don't think anybody was in danger, apart from Liam getting agitated and feeling angry.

Wasn't 40 years long enough to have this guilty secret hanging over his head, without all the drama and future faking going on.

EdgeCase

Someone can feel angry, agitated, outraged and furious and all sorts of things but it's absolutely not a normal reaction to take that anger out on a whole ethnic group or skin colour.

It's even less normal to plot a very violent reaction for days.

At least he regrets it and understands it's profoundly wrong and illogical but I'm more worried about the people online and in the media who are implying this is somehow normal behaviour. It absolutely isn't and it wasn't in the 1980s either.

El_Duderino 09

Muckka wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I've no idea why you quoted me in that post. Absolutely nothing to do with my post.

The desire to minimise and normalise the reaction is genuinely unnerving.

That's ok sure we both have different opinions, and I see nothing wrong with yours.

What I meant about the paratrooper was, that would have been the odds of him meeting a black man in the north 40 years ago....

I don't think anybody was in danger, apart from Liam getting agitated and feeling angry.

Wasn't 40 years long enough to have this guilty secret hanging over his head, without all the drama and future faking going on.

I just don't know what you brought it up and ignored the question my.post actually asked. He said he went to black areas of the city. So let's assume if there were black areas it was likely that there were black people around.

I have the answer to the question I asked. He said he went out walking the black areas of the city for a week to a week and a half. Hoping a black man would start on him so he could attack him with a cosh and kill him.

If that wasn't a racist reaction, what would be a racist reaction In your opinion?

SoundsRight

After Indira Ghandi was assassinated, thousands of Sikhs were killed and gang-raped. It was the same emotions Neeson was feeling; he was just better able to keep a lid on it.

Church on Tuesday

eviltwin wrote: »

He's a brave man admitting that in this day and age:D

I know people will rush to condemn him but look at the context, he was talking about he felt at that time, in the moment of learning what had happened to his loved one. It's an understandable reaction to a violent assault.

I'd presume he doesn't feel that way now but the permanently outraged won't let that stop them vilifying him.

Yup, and it's this kind of bravery we need in this ultra fascist PC age.

dav3

It can't have been too difficult to narrow down the suspects 40 years ago. Talk of roaming through 'black areas in the city' is just playing up to the yanks who love a good story from the old country.

El_Duderino 09

SoundsRight wrote: »

After Indira Ghandi was assassinated, thousands of Sikhs were killed and gang-raped. It was the same emotions Neeson was feeling; he was just better able to keep a lid on it.

So was wanting to kill Sikhs a racist reaction?

straight away it's now "very dear friend" and "violently raped" then "seeing a priest".. don't back down by listening to your press agent Liam, stick to your guns!!

when he said he got help, I thought he was gonna dig deeper and say he brought friends one night

Muckka

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I just don't know what you brought it up and ignored the question my.post actually asked. He said he went to black areas of the city. So let's assume if there were black areas it was likely that there were black people around.

I have the answer to the question I asked. He said he went out walking the black areas of the city for a week to a week and a half. Hoping a black man would start on him so he could attack him with a cosh and kill him.

If that wasn't a racist reaction, what would be a racist reaction In your opinion?

In my opinion he had an Idea of what kind of man he was looking for.

He didn't conclude all black men were of any persuasion.

It was a highly emotive reaction, bit he wasn't being racist.

My version of racism is the fact that if I thought my race is superior to any other race I'd be racist.

But I don't think my race is any way superior to any other race, so I conclude I'm not a racists.

Either is Liam a racist.

SoundsRight

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So was wanting to kill Sikhs a racist reaction?

No, the reaction was born out of a desire for revenge and justice. They were probably quite friendly with them up to the assassination.

was he not just profiling? if the person was black and obviously violent, should he go out looking for a white violent man also? he knew the race so in his mind he was someway there to having a shot at getting them.

if a police sketch artist draws a black man as a suspect. based on the victims description, does this mean you call to known white families just so you're not a racist?

Dr. Bre

I need my fix of outrage

El_Duderino 09

Muckka wrote: »

[
In my opinion he had an Idea of what kind of man he was looking for.

He didn't conclude all black men were of any persuasion.

It was a highly emotive reaction, bit he wasn't being racist.

My version of racism is the fact that if I thought my race is superior to any other race I'd be racist.

But I don't think my race is any way superior to any other race, so I conclude I'm not a racists.

Either is Liam a racist.

What's your opinion based on? He specifically said he was hoping someone would give him an excuse to kill him. He didn't mention that he knew the guy or suspected he knew the guy. So what are you basing that opinion on? Is it because you think he probably knew both the black people in the city at the time? The paratrooper and the other one, I suppose.

He didn't say he concluded all black men were of any persuasion. But he was looking for an opportunity to kill a black man in revenge for the crime of a black man.

PGE1970

Piers Morgan was on GMB today outraged at what Liam Neeson had to say.

Leaving aside what Liam Neeson had to say, this apparently happened 40 years ago?

Around the same time that people like the Birmingham 6 and the Guildford 4 as well as other Irish people in the UK were suffering physical abuse and discrimination because of the atrocities of others?

I think Neeson was rather stupid to say what he did and he should regret it. But the vitriol from some commentators is astonishing.

El_Duderino 09

rusty cole wrote: »

was he not just profiling? if the person was black and obviously violent, should he go out looking for a white violent man also? he knew the race so in his mind he was someway there to having a shot at getting them.

if a police sketch artist draws a black man as a suspect. based on the victims description, does this mean you call to known white families just so you're not a racist?

He wasnt trying to solve the crime and find out who did it. He was looking for an excuse to kill a black man.

I just want to clarify that you know the difference between what he did and what police do?

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He wasnt trying to solve the crime and find out who did it. He was looking for an excuse to kill a black man.

I just want to clarify that you know the difference between what he did and what police do?

yes I do, I'm not talking about the what!! I'm talking about the How! or why a black man that's all. Yes it's not lost on me, I know the difference between the boys in blue and a real life superhero DUH!:D

ZeroThreat

so, I hear you're a racist now, Mr. Neeson....

andekwarhola

I'd be inclined to believe him about it being a traumatic type moment of mental freewheel as opposed to him being racist or that he would have acted on it but it seems like a bizarre thing to publicly utter.

Saying it's down to publicizing his latest movie seems way off the beam. This is something that could kill a movie and a career.

KevinCavan

I would have thought he’d be a much more astute man, after spending so many years in Hollywood. It’s a career ending statement in the current climate. You can’t go around saying you were hoping any black man would start a fight with you, just so you could get revenge on the entire black race, for the rape of your friend.

El_Duderino 09

rusty cole wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He wasnt trying to solve the crime and find out who did it. He was looking for an excuse to kill a black man.

I just want to clarify that you know the difference between what he did and what police do?

yes I do, I'm not talking about the what!! I'm talking about the How! or why a black man that's all. Yes it's not lost on me, I know the difference between the boys in blue and a real life superhero DUH!:D

But if he wasn't trying to find the person who did, why make the police comparison? He wasn't looking for THE guy. He was looking for an excuse to kill ANY black guy.

El_Duderino 09

SoundsRight wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So was wanting to kill Sikhs a racist reaction?

No, the reaction was born out of a desire for revenge and justice. They were probably quite friendly with them up to the assassination.

So was the actual isolated desire to kill Sikhs, a racist reaction? (sectarian might be more accurate in this case but the principle is the same)

hotmail.com

Evidently Liam doesn't have any non white friends.

hotmail.com

Neeson's nonsense attempt to be the hard man has backfired.

El_Duderino 09

The desire to minimise this is amazing. It was obviously a racist reaction.

A racist act doesn't mean Neeson IS a racist. That should be obvious too.

I suppose I was just seeing how far people would go to deny the racism in wanting to kill any black man because of the crime of a black man. Going as far as to say the murder of Sikhs wasn't racist (or sectarian presumably) because it was motivated by revenge and not race.

Why not admit it was a racist reaction? It doesn't mean he's an irredeemable racist.

ChikiChiki

EdgeCase wrote: »

Someone can feel angry, agitated, outraged and furious and all sorts of things but it's absolutely not a normal reaction to take that anger out on a whole ethnic group or skin colour.

It's even less normal to plot a very violent reaction for days.

At least he regrets it and understands it's profoundly wrong and illogical but I'm more worried about the people online and in the media who are implying this is somehow normal behaviour. It absolutely isn't and it wasn't in the 1980s either.

I got two 1700 dollar fines on one day. The rage I felt against the whole NSW police force was something else. I honesltly felt if I came across a cop I would have said something provocative. Luckily a good friend had the sense to tell me to go home and sleep on it and I did the next day realising how utterly idiotic I must have sounded to her.

Apples and oranges I know but Neeson is just conveying his reaction and thoughts at the time truthfully and honestly. As always the outrage brigade quick to jump on without reading a whole lot below the headline let alone the incident happening 40 bloody years ago!

hotmail.com

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Why not admit it was a racist reaction? It doesn't mean he's an irredeemable racist.

This is what often gets me in these stories. I think it's perfectly acceptable to defend the person, in this case Neeson, but condemn/disagree with their actions/comments.

DEFTLEFTHAND

It's hard at times to not start blaming the entire group. Even though it's completely irrational and wrong.

I've an issue with Aussies and the Welsh to this day because of things which happened to me in their countries.

If I pick up on an Aussie accent in a bar or where ever it starts a slow burning anger in me. It's seriously disturbing.

facehugger99

Really was a profoundly dumb thing to come out with. What possessed him to bring up this incident when promoting a movie?

I wonder had he a few drinks on him at the time.

El_Duderino 09

retro:electro wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

But if he wasn't trying to find the person who did, why make the police comparison? He wasn't looking for THE guy. He was looking for an excuse to kill ANY black guy.

And he acknowledges that this was totally wrong and he is ashamed he ever felt this way. Are you so perfect that you’ve never had an improper thought in your life? Most of us are flawed humans who will from time to time, have inappropriate thoughts. He not only didn’t act on this but has publicly condemned his thoughts. He must have learned from it for it to be something that has stayed with him all of these years.

OK. That post has nothing to do with the point in the quote but fair enough.

I never suggested I haven't had an inappropriate thought. Ive had plenty. I can't understand why it's so easy to see it was inappropriate to want to kill a black man based on his race, but so difficult to see that it's inappropriate because it's racist.