Gardai cricitise paedophile hunters

nw5iytvs0lf1uz

I know a man who was living in a part of tipperary renting a house.
New to that area and not well known.
Rumours started he was a certain Larry Murphy and these rumours spread on Facebook
My friend had no idea this was going on until one night about 1 am 4 men tried to kick his front door in shouting for Larry Murphy.
Only thing that saved him was one of his neighbours who he knew a little intervened with dogs and a bat.
Although my friend was very lucky it also affected him greatly. He carried a knife for a while and when he found out who the 4 men were he had the ringleader given a very brutal beating. He went from a very relaxed and carefree to someone with little empathy unless you were family or friend.

This is what can happen when vigilantes play hero and remove the Garda from doing the job they are professionally trained to carry out.

Strazdas

neirbloom wrote: »

I hadn't a whole lot of problems with the group in general until I watched one of their videos on You Tube where they bascially invite themselves into this poor womans house not under false pretense mind you but somwhat misleading her having no idea it was going to be live streamed to thousands of people on Facebook.

Another moment you see she has the camera pointed at the floor through most of the video for the mothers benift and supposedly to avoid embarrassment for the family but once the mother leaves the room for all of a moment shes pointing the camera in this guys face and you can clearly hear someone whispering in the back to let them know when the mother arrives back.

Her whole attitude once the police arrives and she's kindly asked to leave she begins to kick off causeing a big scence inside and outside the house pacing up and down the estate on a complete powertrip if ever I saw and very little concern for this guys family members who by all accounts are completely innocent . I dont want to post the video here buts its available on TY and a quick search Ballyfermot hunter sting its about an hour long.

If the vigilantes were remotely interested in child safety, they would never live stream anything and would simply over their evidence to the Guards. But their whole raison d'etre is the live sting on Facebook and the adulation from the baying mob. They're almost staging it as a form of online entertainment for skangers.

weldoninhio

biko wrote: »

Like George Carlin said "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

Like Abraham Lincoln said, don’t believe everything you read on the internet. That story has already been debunked.

dublinman1990

Oh Jesus. I'm after just reading an article where a 53 year old man was assaulted outside his house at Blackrock in Dublin by one of these vigilante groups back in early January 2018. He got himself in a unmarked garda car to the local station for safety. And he then got admitted to hospital to get his injuries assessed by the medical staff but it's does not say what type of injuries he had received from this group. The relevant article is linked here on the DublinLive website.

paleoperson

I seriously hope they're not "going easy" on the vigilante groups. In a large fraction of these cases the person being targeted has mental defects and is legitimately naive enough to think that a young girl wants to meet with them, particularly if adult women aren't showing interest.

Overheal

Recall that the show To Catch A Predator was a big budget production for network news, involved law enforcement directly and prerecorded all stings.

It was shut down, shortly after an incident where a sting went deep six, the perp knew what was going on apparently and never showed up to the location - so they decided for the sake of television drama, to find his home address and he committed suicide.

I doubt this group is prepared to handle that.

In addition the whole project wasn’t entirely successful, and dozens of cases were thrown out for lack of sufficient evidence.

ELM327

spurious wrote: »

If.

Given the book of evidence that has been quoted and all the "alleged" perps seem to accept without question, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to remove the "if" and replace with certainty

Garibaldi?

Many of the people in vigilante groups are looking for an excuse to inflict harm on others. They give the distinct impression of being disturbed and twisted in some way. The mental profile of such individuals is as questionable as that of the people they are pursuing.

eagle eye

Garibaldi? wrote:

Many of the people in vigilante groups are looking for an excuse to inflict harm on others. They give the distinct impression of being disturbed and twisted in some way. The mental profile of such individuals is as questionable as that of the people they are pursuing.

Every possibility that there are many victims of paedophilia involved. There are many victims who never got Justice served on the offender.

Garibaldi?

The bottom line is that they have no authority to interfere with another member of the public for any offence, real or perceived. If they approach, threaten and frighten somebody, and that person inflicts serious injury in self-defence, they are the aggressors and will not have a leg to stand on.

lawred2

paleoperson wrote: »

I seriously hope they're not "going easy" on the vigilante groups. In a large fraction of these cases the person being targeted has mental defects and is legitimately naive enough to think that a young girl wants to meet with them, particularly if adult women aren't showing interest.

How big a 'large fraction'?

Garibaldi?

I these groups there is generally one, maybe two instigators. Like most mobs. Besides causing injury to a possibly innocent person, they are leading others in the direction of a criminal record or possible personal injuries. Mobs are without exception abhorrent.

paleoperson

lawred2 wrote: »

How big a 'large fraction'?

From the clips I've seen online maybe a quarter to a half depending on how you're counting it.

There are people with down syndrome types of disfigurements that have been targeted and abused in person.

donkeykong5

Paedoohile hunters are amazing people who are doing the job that police and government are paid to do. All the confrontations with the filthy paedophiles are recorded. Sadly a certain well known judge when these individuals are in court in front of him lets them off daily with either suspended sentence or a friendly warning. Good job the rte employee was caught in UK by Phil hoban and predator exposure team. He was tried in UK and sentenced. If it had been in Ireland. He would have not been imprisoned at all.

PerryB78

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Many of the people in vigilante groups are looking for an excuse to inflict harm on others. They give the distinct impression of being disturbed and twisted in some way. The mental profile of such individuals is as questionable as that of the people they are pursuing.

I've just seen this thread and have been reading some of the posts. Paedophiles are the most loathsome specimens around today. I think the paedo hunter groups are admirable in what they do but I've seen videos of the CPA group in Dublin and the woman heading these videos up is a joke. I understand these sc*mbags will invoke rage but shes as unprofessional as can be, she needs to be smarter dealing with these sickos

AllForIt

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Paedoohile hunters are amazing people who are doing the job that police and government are paid to do.

I am quite certain the law of the land cannot bait ppl to crime, any crime. That is what the PH's do.

I understand that in the case of Paedophilla maybe one would make an exception to this rule but practically it would end up to be a legal unworkable disaster if the law used this tactic. A paedo cold argue they would never have dreamed of committing the crime were it not for the law enticing them in the first place. And that is what is happening in the case of PH's. Surely you can at least accept that point. Whether or not they would have anyway doesn't make any difference to this point, because the law can only prosecute them on the one they caught them on, the baited one, not what the law *thinks* one might have done at some future or past point that wasn't a bait, without evidence. In the UK for example the law cannot prosecute ppl for being part of online Islamist groups, even if they know that some of them may very well end up carrying out an an atrocity some day. They can never know which one's actually will and some never will.

The issues the legal law have for catching criminals is the same for every crime type no matter what the severity of the crime. You just can't bait ppl. You can't leave a Bank door open at night and hang in waiting to see if anyone passing will go in and rob the Bank, even if you think there's a bank robbing gang operating in the area and doing this might catch them. Simply analogy maybe but you get the point.

If you have a proposal that would be workable we'd be all ears. I have sympathy for your position but I don't think your seeing the bigger picture, the only answer is to catch criminals in a manner that is within the law for a variety of reasons. I don't work in law enforcement, I'm just a lay person in this regard, but even I can see the huge legal problems in entrapment for ANY crime.

I'll edge more towards you with this, if citizens could catch paedos in a manner that isn't entrapment then I'd be totally okay with that. But I don't think there is any way they can do that. Even the law can't do that. If they could they would. If they could they surely would be amazing people. I'd even increase their social welfare payments as a reward.

Strazdas

When you read the comments about the vigilantes on social media, the same people cheering them on are also the ones posting vile racist comments and complaining about asylum seekers and Muslims etc. There seems to be a strong link between far right types and this crowd (which stands to reason).

donkeykong5

PerryB78 wrote: »

I've just seen this thread and have been reading some of the posts. Paedophiles are the most loathsome specimens around today. I think the paedo hunter groups are admirable in what they do but I've seen videos of the CPA group in Dublin and the woman heading these videos up is a joke. I understand these sc*mbags will invoke rage but shes as unprofessional as can be, she needs to be smarter dealing with these sickos

Nothing at all wrong with louise and cpa. They recently removed a very dangerous filthy paedoohile from a west Dublin housing estate. The convicted paedophile was a danger to local children in the area where he has previously abused children.

donkeykong5

AllForIt wrote: »

I am quite certain the law of the land cannot bait ppl to crime, any crime. That is what the PH's do.

I understand that in the case of Paedophilla maybe one would make an exception to this rule but practically it would end up to be a legal unworkable disaster if the law used this tactic. A paedo cold argue they would never have dreamed of committing the crime were it not for the law enticing them in the first place. And that is what is happening in the case of PH's. Surely you can at least accept that point. Whether or not they would have anyway doesn't make any difference to this point, because the law can only prosecute them on the one they caught them on, the baited one, not what the law *thinks* one might have done at some future or past point that wasn't a bait, without evidence. In the UK for example the law cannot prosecute ppl for being part of online Islamist groups, even if they know that some of them may very well end up carrying out an an atrocity some day. They can never know which one's actually will and some never will.

The issues the legal law have for catching criminals is the same for every crime type no matter what the severity of the crime. You just can't bait ppl. You can't leave a Bank door open at night and hang in waiting to see if anyone passing will go in and rob the Bank, even if you think there's a bank robbing gang operating in the area and doing this might catch them. Simply analogy maybe but you get the point.

If you have a proposal that would be workable we'd be all ears. I have sympathy for your position but I don't think your seeing the bigger picture, the only answer is to catch criminals in a manner that is within the law for a variety of reasons. I don't work in law enforcement, I'm just a lay person in this regard, but even I can see the huge legal problems in entrapment for ANY crime.

I'll edge more towards you with this, if citizens could catch paedos in a manner that isn't entrapment then I'd be totally okay with that. But I don't think there is any way they can do that. Even the law can't do that. If they could they would. If they could they surely would be amazing people. I'd even increase their social welfare payments as a reward.

All paedophiles should be jailed to keep young innocent children safe. No suspended sentences or friendly warnings from certain paedophile sympathiser judge should be allowed. Enough is enough.

the_syco

donkeykong5 wrote: »

All paedophiles should be jailed to keep young innocent children safe. No suspended sentences or friendly warnings from certain paedophile sympathiser judge should be allowed. Enough is enough.

And you think that a mob will do so without bias, and can act as judge, jury, and jailer, by using entrapment to catch people they claim to be bad?

soiseztomabel

AllForIt wrote: »

I am quite certain the law of the land cannot bait ppl to crime, any crime. That is what the PH's do.

I understand that in the case of Paedophilla maybe one would make an exception to this rule but practically it would end up to be a legal unworkable disaster if the law used this tactic. A paedo cold argue they would never have dreamed of committing the crime were it not for the law enticing them in the first place. And that is what is happening in the case of PH's. Surely you can at least accept that point. Whether or not they would have anyway doesn't make any difference to this point, because the law can only prosecute them on the one they caught them on, the baited one, not what the law *thinks* one might have done at some future or past point that wasn't a bait, without evidence. In the UK for example the law cannot prosecute ppl for being part of online Islamist groups, even if they know that some of them may very well end up carrying out an an atrocity some day. They can never know which one's actually will and some never will.

The issues the legal law have for catching criminals is the same for every crime type no matter what the severity of the crime. You just can't bait ppl. You can't leave a Bank door open at night and hang in waiting to see if anyone passing will go in and rob the Bank, even if you think there's a bank robbing gang operating in the area and doing this might catch them. Simply analogy maybe but you get the point.

If you have a proposal that would be workable we'd be all ears. I have sympathy for your position but I don't think your seeing the bigger picture, the only answer is to catch criminals in a manner that is within the law for a variety of reasons. I don't work in law enforcement, I'm just a lay person in this regard, but even I can see the huge legal problems in entrapment for ANY crime.

I'll edge more towards you with this, if citizens could catch paedos in a manner that isn't entrapment then I'd be totally okay with that. But I don't think there is any way they can do that. Even the law can't do that. If they could they would. If they could they surely would be amazing people. I'd even increase their social welfare payments as a reward.

Nail on the head

AllForIt

donkeykong5 wrote: »

All paedophiles should be jailed to keep young innocent children safe. No suspended sentences or friendly warnings from certain paedophile sympathiser judge should be allowed. Enough is enough.

I don't know why you quoted me, when you didn't address a single point I made.

cgcsb

I see in Germany they've had good results with a health service lead approach which allows men with such thoughts to seek help long before they ever offend and the the seen a large reduction in cases. The threat of prison if caught is clearly insufficient for preventing offenses.

This type of approach could reduce all sorts of crimes. I note the young lad who almost killed that Chinese girl at Dun Laoghaire harbour had a history of mental health issues and his parents had begged the hse to take him into care but they wouldn't until he went out and harmed someone which he did.

A better health service would also be able tackle our suicide epidemic. These vigilante groups solve nothing.

Garibaldi?

PerryB78 wrote: »

I've just seen this thread and have been reading some of the posts. Paedophiles are the most loathsome specimens around today. I think the paedo hunter groups are admirable in what they do but I've seen videos of the CPA group in Dublin and the woman heading these videos up is a joke. I understand these sc*mbags will invoke rage but shes as unprofessional as can be, she needs to be smarter dealing with these sickos

This woman is indeed "unprofessional " because she is engaging in an activity which is not her profession (whatever her actual profession may be ).

donkeykong5

Garibaldi? wrote: »

This woman is indeed "unprofessional " because she is engaging in an activity which is not her profession (whatever her actual profession may be ).

That woman louise is a legend. She has saved so many children from paedophiles. People with young vulnerable children appreciate the great work she does. She us the same in my opinion as Phil hoban from predator exposure in UK. The amazing guy who caught the rte reporter.

Sheridan81

There's a paedo living near me.

One day I went up to him and let him know, in no uncertain terms, that if he ever so much as looked at photographs of a young one then he'd have me to deal with.

And when I say 'deal' I mean sell me the photographs for a tenner-cause I'm also a paedo.

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

I see in Germany they've had good results with a health service lead approach which allows men with such thoughts to seek help long before they ever offend and the the seen a large reduction in cases. The threat of prison if caught is clearly insufficient for preventing offenses.

This type of approach could reduce all sorts of crimes. I note the young lad who almost killed that Chinese girl at Dun Laoghaire harbour had a history of mental health issues and his parents had begged the hse to take him into care but they wouldn't until he went out and harmed someone which he did.

A better health service would also be able tackle our suicide epidemic. These vigilante groups solve nothing.

agree with yr wider point, certainly

the parents of that young fella, from the (rather simpering, imo) coverage in the irish times, had options but really didnt feel those were optimal for their little darling, was the impression i got.

PerryB78

donkeykong5 wrote: »

Nothing at all wrong with louise and cpa. They recently removed a very dangerous filthy paedoohile from a west Dublin housing estate. The convicted paedophile was a danger to local children in the area where he has previously abused children.

I fully support what they do, all I'm saying is this woman needs to tone it down when confronting these people. Maddening as paedos are, they'll play the victim card when confronted in this manner

Galwayguy35

the_syco wrote: »

And you think that a mob will do so without bias, and can act as judge, jury, and jailer, by using entrapment to catch people they claim to be bad?

How are they using entrapment?

They make up a fake profile of a minor, and wait for contact to be made and then state in the first few massages that they are childern and what age they are.

Yet the piece of dirt on the other end keeps chatting and looking to meet up thinking they are talking to a real child.

....... that's literally entrapment