Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

bilston

Clegg wrote: »

I've just seen a clip of Kearney clotheslining Tom Curry yesterday. One armed high hit around the neck with no attempt to wrap.

We'll be extremely fortunate if he doesn't get cited. Was red card worthy but completely missed by the referees and TMO.

That was in the build up to one of their tries after Murray got hit. I wondered that at the time.

D14Rugby

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Did you watch the NZ / Aus game you reference? Down to 14 men and behind they kept trying to play open expansive rugby and got caught out as the second half wore on. It wasn’t near the same sort of thing as yesterday.

I did and they did that in peak match fitness to counter that. Some here are acting as if the sky is falling in because we lost a game that nobody cares about its ridiculous.

Utah_Saint

I think it would be worth taking Ruddock to WC. Would mean we don't need kleyn in that 'big lump' roll...would allow Beirne to go.

LuckyLloyd

D14Rugby wrote: »

I did and they did that in peak match fitness to counter that. Some here are acting as if the sky is falling in because we lost a game that nobody cares about its ridiculous.

So you concede that their performance in the loss to Australia was nowhere near as concerning as yesterday’s performance in England?

is_that_so

D14Rugby wrote: »

I did and they did that in peak match fitness to counter that. Some here are acting as if the sky is falling in because we lost a game that nobody cares about its ridiculous.

Just a warmup but there are definite concerns over the performance of some and the overall errors, especially this close to the RWC. 34 missed tackles is not going to win you a match. Wales I & II should give a better insight into where we are.

thebaz

D14Rugby wrote: »

You dont accept that England cutting their squad early results in players being more match fit? Less players splitting the same amount of game time, its fairly straightforward.

New Zealand suffered a record defeat to Australia, you don't see them losing their ****.

I see it as straighforward minimal at this stage.

NZ had a once off bad game(down to 14) , but for Ireland it has been poor for 7 months now - thats why yesterday was important , could we bounce back from the 6 Nations rot - we didnt - wish it was as simple as once off bad game , but too many players and coach are out of sorts.

The Lost Sheep

D14Rugby wrote: »

I did and they did that in peak match fitness to counter that. Some here are acting as if the sky is falling in because we lost a game that nobody cares about its ridiculous.

Its not that we lost but its the manner we lost, performance(more lack of) of so many players involved.

Utah_Saint wrote: »

I think it would be worth taking Ruddock to WC. Would mean we don't need kleyn in that 'big lump' roll...would allow Beirne to go.

Why is there such a push for Beirne when he isnt going to be the player to do so much for us. He isnt that good

Clegg

Utah_Saint wrote: »

I think it would be worth taking Ruddock to WC. Would mean we don't need kleyn in that 'big lump' roll...would allow Beirne to go.

Kleyn is probably going to travel unfortunately. Schmidt has given him too much game time to not bring him now. He's not good enough as evidenced by Munster performances and the few with Ireland. But it's too late to change now.

D14Rugby

thebaz wrote: »

I see it as straighforward minimal at this stage.

31 players sharing 2 games vs 40+ players sharing one game, that's not minimal at all.

thebaz

D14Rugby wrote: »

31 players sharing 2 games vs 40+ players sharing one game, that's not minimal at all.

to you its not , to me its is - you are really talking about peripheral players anyway , not starters.

Faugheen

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Why is there such a push for Beirne when he isnt going to be the player to do so much for us. He isnt that good

Thank you! In similar conditions against Wales, Beirne was ****e. He’s another luxury player in the mould of POM.

Give Ruddock/Henderson a go at 6. They’ll do all the grunt work to really attack the gain lane that the above two can’t do when the front 5 are getting bullied.

Yeah_Right

thebaz wrote: »

I see it as straighforward minimal at this stage.

NZ had a once off bad game(down to 14) , but for Ireland it has been poor for 7 months now - thats why yesterday was important , could we bounce back from the 6 Nations rot - we didnt - wish it was as simple as once off bad game , but too many players and coach are out of sorts.

Actually NZ didn't have a once off bad game. They were poor against England and Ireland last year, unimpressive against Argentina this year and got an ugly draw with South Africa before getting hammered by Australia. So they were in a poor run of form. Yes I'm ignoring the hiding gave Italy at the end of last year because the ABs can do that without getting out of second gear.

That's 2 defeats and a draw in their last 6 matches including a record defeat. But no panic, a few tweaks and they're back. No reason Ireland can't do the same.

AbusesToilets

Clegg wrote: »

Kleyn is probably going to travel unfortunately. Schmidt has given him too much game time to not bring him now. He's not good enough as evidenced by Munster performances and the few with Ireland. But it's too late to change now.

Can't for the life of me understand why Dillane was given the boot. He's a far better lock than Beirne or Kleyn, and brings real energy and physicality to the game. He was finally back in good form after his personal problems, right in time for the WC.

thebaz

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Actually NZ didn't have a once off bad game. They were poor against England and Ireland last year, unimpressive against Argentina this year and got an ugly draw with South Africa before getting hammered by Australia. So they were in a poor run of form. Yes I'm ignoring the hiding gave Italy at the end of last year because the ABs can do that without getting out of second gear.

That's 2 defeats and a draw in their last 6 matches including a record defeat. But no panic, a few tweaks and they're back. No reason Ireland can't do the same.

fair point - but, somehow I think NZ are in a much better place right now than us

D14Rugby

thebaz wrote: »

to you its not , to me its is - you are really talking about peripheral players anyway , not starters.

That English team at a rough count had an average of 75 minutes under their belt, the Irish team had 21. That's a huge difference. We had 11 players getting their first minutes in months, one of who was on the bench, they had 3, again one on the bench. Not talking about peripheral players at all. By the fact England have cut their squad already none of their players are peripheral.

ionadnapokot

is_that_so wrote: »

D14Rugby wrote: »

I did and they did that in peak match fitness to counter that. Some here are acting as if the sky is falling in because we lost a game that nobody cares about its ridiculous.

Just a warmup but there are definite concerns over the performance of some and the overall errors, especially this close to the RWC. 34 missed tackles is not going to win you a match. Wales I & II should give a better insight into where we are.

What I find ridiculous is that some people are refusing to go on evidence that has been on the pitch during all FIVE 6N games and these TWO warm-ups.

Welsh matches are now too late in the day to hope for a miraculous turnaround in form.
Murray and Bests form in particular. We haven’t even seen Sexton yet! Also has LH and backup OH to worry about now.
Personnel changes are NEEDED at SH and Hooker. Biggest test for Joe: Stick or twist?

thebaz

D14Rugby wrote: »

Not talking about peripheral players at all. By the fact England have cut their squad already none of their players are peripheral.

the players being cut are periphery , they are not starters - lets just differ on this - going around in circles - its no big deal

D14Rugby

thebaz wrote: »

the players being cut are periphery , they are not starters - lets just differ on this - going around in circles - its no big deal

Christ almighty that's my point, England don't have any players to cut. None of their peripheral players are getting game time because there aren't any.

Shefwedfan

ionadnapokot wrote: »

What I find ridiculous is that some people are refusing to go on evidence that has been on the pitch during all FIVE 6N games and these TWO warm-ups.

Welsh matches are now too late in the day to hope for a miraculous turnaround in form.
Murray and Bests form in particular. We haven’t even seen Sexton yet! Also has LH and backup OH to worry about now.
Personnel changes are NEEDED at SH and Hooker. Biggest test for Joe: Stick or twist?

The use of capital really add to your post. Maybe everyone should do that....

If it's too late now sure no point going to WC....might as well stay at home

penybont exile

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ireland on top form can’t win in Cardiff, so it ain’t happening

We need to get the combination right and win at home

I imagine you'll be playing our B/C team next week .... so if you lose that one it will be time to really panic.

Shefwedfan

penybont exile wrote: »

I imagine you'll be playing our B/C team next week .... so if you lose that one it will be time to really panic.

It is clear they had a plan at the start of the preseason games


As discussed before the B team would play next week and then the full team the home game against Wales....two weeks and then straight into SCotland...thats the guess


Dont see why they should change that now...

is_that_so

ionadnapokot wrote: »

What I find ridiculous is that some people are refusing to go on evidence that has been on the pitch during all FIVE 6N games and these TWO warm-ups.

Welsh matches are now too late in the day to hope for a miraculous turnaround in form.
Murray and Bests form in particular. We haven’t even seen Sexton yet! Also has LH and backup OH to worry about now.
Personnel changes are NEEDED at SH and Hooker. Biggest test for Joe: Stick or twist?

Who said nobody's looking at the evidence? The 6N has been discussed and they were not great. This was a warm-up game with an England team on another path. What we saw wasn't good but there are others to come in. Again nobody is setting a lot of store in Welsh games. They are warm-ups. Our group has two possible banana skins, Scotland and the hosts. With a reasonably functioning team we can take both and progress to the quarters. Going further requires a level of form we haven't seen in quite some time.

99problems1

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

I've never seen such a bizarre deduction of the Six Nations that winning it is "nothing too impressive".



You must really not enjoy international rugby for 3 years, 10 months at a time.

Any manager we have or will have is expected to beat Italy and Scotland every year without question. That means the 6 nations is essentially 3 games. Winning 2 and losing 1, as I said is not impressive. Winning a trophy on points where you win 2 out of 3 games that are realistically.

(6 Nations only) Since Joe has joined he has won 1 more game than Wales - he has won one less game than England.

Since Jones became England manager, Joe has won the same amount of games as Wales and one less than England.

Since Joe joined, there has been 18 opportunities in total for England, Ireland and Wales to win 4 games or more in a 6 nations. This has happened 9 times.

So basically every 2 years on average, all of England, Ireland and Wales win at least 4 games in a 6 nations. You can't tell me when it happens so often that it's an incredible achievement.

As for your comment about not enjoying rugby for X months of the year? I watch the games on tour but winning series means nothing. I also watch pre season friendlies in soccer.

Those tours are just a money maker for all involved. You think they'd be able to charge 100 quid a pop for tickets in November if they didn't try and make you think the result meant something?

Dubinusa

I think we're not good enough!
The 6 nations showed that we can be bullied and can't change on the fly.
England will win the rwc, imo. They are loaded.
We only have a couple of top rate international players.
Our style is so easy to stop.
I reckon we will get to the NFL's and it's possible to win a qf, if everything fell our way.
But, winning 3 must win games, qf, if and final, I don't think we can.

For me, Dillane should never have been cut.
Kleyn is a larger version of Roux. He doesn't have top flight ability.
POM is fallen off and Murray is awful.
Ruddock should get a look as should Beirne at 6.
I think Kilcoyne will travel as Jack looks completely out of sorts.
Conan has got to get some time also!
All in all, we have been shyte all year.

Mangofrozo

I have to agree, winning the 6 nations or even the grand slam occasionally is not a huge achievement. Winning it 5 years in a row would be a huge achievement. Winning the world cup would be a huge achievement.

Winning the 6 nations (Ireland, England, Wales and France) once every 3 or 4 years is what you would expect, it's nothing impressive.

If Italy or Scotland won the 6 nations that would be impressive.

Henry Ford III

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Can't for the life of me understand why Dillane was given the boot. He's a far better lock than Beirne or Kleyn, and brings real energy and physicality to the game. He was finally back in good form after his personal problems, right in time for the WC.

You can't second guess Leader Joe's selections.

ionadnapokot

is_that_so wrote: »

ionadnapokot wrote: »

What I find ridiculous is that some people are refusing to go on evidence that has been on the pitch during all FIVE 6N games and these TWO warm-ups.

Welsh matches are now too late in the day to hope for a miraculous turnaround in form.
Murray and Bests form in particular. We haven’t even seen Sexton yet! Also has LH and backup OH to worry about now.
Personnel changes are NEEDED at SH and Hooker. Biggest test for Joe: Stick or twist?

Who said nobody's looking at the evidence? The 6N has been discussed and they were not great. This was a warm-up game with an England team on another path. What we saw wasn't good but there are others to come in. Again nobody is setting a lot of store in Welsh games. They are warm-ups. Our group has two possible banana skins, Scotland and the hosts. With a reasonably functioning team we can take both and progress to the quarters. Going further requires a level of form we haven't seen in quite some time.

Without wanting to go around in circles; may I ask you 2 genuine questions?
1. Do you not think Joe has a crisis on his hands?
2. Would you make any changes to key personnel for Scotland game?

AbusesToilets

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You can't second guess Leader Joe's selections.

Incredible that we are facing into a WC with exactly the same issues for Joe as there were with EOS and Kidney. Persisting with players who either aren't good enough or well out of form.

The Lost Sheep

99problems1 wrote: »

Any manager we have or will have is expected to beat Italy and Scotland every year without question. That means the 6 nations is essentially 3 games. Winning 2 and losing 1, as I said is not impressive. Winning a trophy on points where you win 2 out of 3 games that are realistically.

(6 Nations only) Since Joe has joined he has won 1 more game than Wales - he has won one less game than England.

Since Jones became England manager, Joe has won the same amount of games as Wales and one less than England.

Since Joe joined, there has been 18 opportunities in total for England, Ireland and Wales to win 4 games or more in a 6 nations. This has happened 9 times.

So basically every 2 years on average, all of England, Ireland and Wales win at least 4 games in a 6 nations. You can't tell me when it happens so often that it's an incredible achievement.

As for your comment about not enjoying rugby for X months of the year? I watch the games on tour but winning series means nothing. I also watch pre season friendlies in soccer.

Those tours are just a money maker for all involved. You think they'd be able to charge 100 quid a pop for tickets in November if they didn't try and make you think the result meant something?

Dismissing the games as money makers is only said by non rugby supporters.
The november/june tests cant be compared to soccer friendlies. They are not in any way comparable. How players treat them, play in them is not the same

Mangofrozo wrote: »

I have to agree, winning the 6 nations or even the grand slam occasionally is not a huge achievement. Winning it 5 years in a row would be a huge achievement. Winning the world cup would be a huge achievement.

Winning the 6 nations (Ireland, England, Wales and France) once every 3 or 4 years is what you would expect, it's nothing impressive.

If Italy or Scotland won the 6 nations that would be impressive.

Winning 6 nations titles is very much a a huge achievement when you look at our history. We have 3 grand slams in 125 years of playing 4/5/6 nations.
Winning every 3/4 years is not really what we should be expecting.

gally74

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Incredible that we are facing into a WC with exactly the same issues for Joe as there were with EOS and Kidney. Persisting with players who either aren't good enough or well out of form.

central contracts are a problem when a player looses form!!!! it almost force joe to keep them in the setup....

D14Rugby

Mangofrozo wrote: »

I have to agree, winning the 6 nations or even the grand slam occasionally is not a huge achievement. Winning it 5 years in a row would be a huge achievement. Winning the world cup would be a huge achievement.

Winning the 6 nations (Ireland, England, Wales and France) once every 3 or 4 years is what you would expect, it's nothing impressive.

If Italy or Scotland won the 6 nations that would be impressive.

Yeah being the undisputed best team in a competition including half the top 10 in the world isn't an impressive achievement whatsoever

Portsalon

D14Rugby wrote: »

Yeah being the undisputed best team in a competition including half the top 10 in the world isn't an impressive achievement whatsoever

I agree.

dh1985

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Dismissing the games as money makers is only said by non rugby supporters.
The november/june tests cant be compared to soccer friendlies. They are not in any way comparable. How players treat them, play in them is not the same


Winning 6 nations titles is very much a a huge achievement when you look at our history. We have 3 grand slams in 125 years of playing 4/5/6 nations.
Winning every 3/4 years is not really what we should be expecting.

This is the winning culture that Joe has bred into Irish rugby. And expectations are of a grand slam every year. And then when it doesn't happen gob****es look for his head on a block. He is a victim of his own success unfortunately. I hope he can prove these guys wrong

D14Rugby

Personally I'm just waiting for a certain sith lord to make a return, if they haven't already.

The Lost Sheep

dh1985 wrote: »

This is the winning culture that Joe has bred into Irish rugby. And expectations are of a grand slam every year. And then when it doesn't happen gob****es look for his head on a block. He is a victim of his own success unfortunately. I hope he can prove these guys wrong

There isnt really many at all who're expecting a slam every year.

lawrencesummers

The six nations is a completely lob sided tournament, the nature of not having home and away and fixtures and the order in which you play teams has a massive bearing on the outcome of the competition.

You have to be very lucky to win a grand slam. Wales were lucky this year that England were missing key players when they went to the cauldron that is Cardiff.

The most worrying result of this year was our loss to England at home, it should have brought about some bigger changes. We got a right beating off them in what was a must win game.

Faugheen

Something I’m curious about from yesterday.

Why was Beirne named as back-row cover if he was only going to come on and play second row anyway?

Burkie1203

Faugheen wrote: »

Something I’m curious about from yesterday.

Why was Beirne named as back-row cover if he was only going to come on and play second row anyway?

Joe trying to play POM and Stander into form

Tikki Wang Wang

Ireland to go out at group stage at 18/1 is a great bet

Faugheen

Tikki Wang Wang wrote: »

Ireland to go out at group stage at 18/1 is a great bet

If you want to lose your money that is.

Exclamation Marc

Tikki Wang Wang wrote: »

Ireland to go out at group stage at 18/1 is a great bet

It's really not. We got shellacked by England yesterday not Namibia.

is_that_so

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Without wanting to go around in circles; may I ask you 2 genuine questions?
1. Do you not think Joe has a crisis on his hands?
2. Would you make any changes to key personnel for Scotland game?

1. Things don't seem to be going to plan but I don't know. It's what he's paid to resolve and we'll see in these final two games.
2. Out : Larmour, Stander, POM, Kleyn, Bundee(reluctantly), Murray(not going to happen)
In: Scannell(maybe, at least try him out against Wales),Sexton, McGrath/Marmion, Ryan, Toner, Ruddock/Murphy,Conan, Earls, Henshaw/Farrell.

irelandrover

Tikki Wang Wang wrote: »

Ireland to go out at group stage at 18/1 is a great bet

What exactly have Scotland done to show they are in better form/ a better team than Ireland?

is_that_so

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Joe trying to play POM and Stander into form

That, unfortunately, is a lost cause at present.

KBurke85

Faugheen wrote: »

Something I’m curious about from yesterday.

Why was Beirne named as back-row cover if he was only going to come on and play second row anyway?

Was it definitely said he was only going to come on in the second row?

Faugheen

KBurke85 wrote: »

Was it definitely said he was only going to come on in the second row?

I don’t know what was said, but you’re completely missing the point of my post.

Why name him as back-row cover and talk about his ability to play in the back-row, and then not play him there?

Instead, they took off our best forward and left that shambles of a back-row on to play Beirne in a position we’ve seen in already.

Why talk about him potentially playing him in the back-row if you’re not going to actually do it when the chance arises?

thebaz

D14Rugby wrote: »

Christ almighty that's my point, England don't have any players to cut. None of their peripheral players are getting game time because there aren't any.

Calm down ther is 31 players in a squad - of course ther are periphery players in the setup - just like any squad . Relax

salmocab

If England go out in the quarters we will have a pile of people saying they peaked too early.
They were at test match intensity yesterday and we were far off it. We have 4 weeks and two matches to get where we need to be. It was a poor performance yesterday no doubt and whilst I don’t think it’s a big game plan to play badly or hide what we’re doing until the last minute I also don’t think the plan was ever to be at top intensity yet.
If we could go back in time and persuade mr and mrs Best to delay having Rory by 18 months that would be a big boost.

lawrencesummers

salmocab wrote: »

If England go out in the quarters we will have a pile of people saying they peaked too early.
They were at test match intensity yesterday and we were far off it. We have 4 weeks and two matches to get where we need to be. It was a poor performance yesterday no doubt and whilst I don’t think it’s a big game plan to play badly or hide what we’re doing until the last minute I also don’t think the plan was ever to be at top intensity yet.
If we could go back in time and persuade mr and mrs Best to delay having Rory by 18 months that would be a big boost.

It’s very possible with two very tough group games and what could be 2 very hard Play off games to reach a final that England are going to pay for the amount of game time they are giving key personnel, but they could well rest a lot of players in the next 2 weeks.

awec

salmocab wrote: »

If England go out in the quarters we will have a pile of people saying they peaked too early.
They were at test match intensity yesterday and we were far off it. We have 4 weeks and two matches to get where we need to be. It was a poor performance yesterday no doubt and whilst I don’t think it’s a big game plan to play badly or hide what we’re doing until the last minute I also don’t think the plan was ever to be at top intensity yet.
If we could go back in time and persuade mr and mrs Best to delay having Rory by 18 months that would be a big boost.

I think it would have been more pragmatic to lobby for the World Cup to move forward 1 year because everyone knows having tournaments in odd numbered years is just silly.