Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

is_that_so

damianmcr wrote: »

IRFU will rue the day they ditched Paddy Jackson.

I dont see why they are so secretive about this Sexton injury. Does Joe think it wont get out?

In rugby terms he has no form and he was always patchy at Test level. On a behavioural and more importantly a financial level it was the right call.

The Sexton injury is just the usual, updates as they come along. It would unquestionably suit our game to have him available but I imagine alternate plans are being made anyway.

is_that_so

bennyl10 wrote: »

Hearing Johnny is ‘touch and go’ to make the plane...
Joey is a further 4 weeks out at best
Usually reliable source too.

That's a shame for both and all the more reason for getting the other 10s ready.

damianmcr

Its not updates as they come along, have the IRFU said anything on it?

I heard before this injury news was published in the Times that he had a serious hamstring problem.

Podge_irl

is_that_so wrote: »

In rugby terms he has no form and he was always patchy at Test level. On a behavioural and more importantly a financial level it was the right call.

Jackson? Dunno where that is coming from - I'd take him in a heartbeat over Carbery.

damianmcr

Either way im sure we will be told off by the mods with this Jackson talk but considering the worst case scenario another OH at least has to be called up.

Madigan
Jackson
.
.
.
.
Billy Burns.

AbusesToilets

Podge_irl wrote: »

Jackson? Dunno where that is coming from - I'd take him in a heartbeat over Carbery.

After the SA, i felt he was maybe a season away from pushing Sexton to start.

is_that_so

Podge_irl wrote: »

Jackson? Dunno where that is coming from - I'd take him in a heartbeat over Carbery.

Poster mentioned him and he's off any radar. I never rated him at this level. Even at Ulster he's had some iffy days. Carberry is a work in progress, one that looks like it may be stymied by injury.

damianmcr

is_that_so wrote: »

Poster mentioned him and he's off any radar. I never rated him at this level. Even at Ulster he's had some iffy days. Carberry is a work in progress, one that looks like it may be stymied by injury.

Ah so Paddy was the finished article and would never improve.

is_that_so

damianmcr wrote: »

Ah so Paddy was the finished article and would never improve.

Well he's out of the country now so ineligible on that alone.

Podge_irl

is_that_so wrote: »

Poster mentioned him and he's off any radar. I never rated him at this level. Even at Ulster he's had some iffy days. Carberry is a work in progress, one that looks like it may be stymied by injury.

Oh there is not a hope of him being called up. But he is also by far the second best outhalf that has played in or for Ireland since ROG retired. The South Africa tour was a level above anything the other options have managed. It has certainly derailed the attempts to build depth at 10.

Anyway, no one outside Ireland is going to be called up. You'll see Hanrahan there before that.

Faugheen

damianmcr wrote: »

IRFU will rue the day they ditched Paddy Jackson.

I dont see why they are so secretive about this Sexton injury. Does Joe think it wont get out?

Jackson left them no choice. Sponsors were raising concerns.

There’s two chances of Jackson ever coming back - slim and none, and it’s all his own fault.

salmocab

is_that_so wrote: »

Well he's out of the country now so ineligible on that alone.

Not that I think he will be called up but I think if they were badly stuck they would call up someone out of the country. It was never made a copper fast rule more a guideline.

MattressRick

Henry Ford III wrote: »

AbusesToilets wrote: »

What value Madigan or Jackson getting a call?. Would Joe back Byrne or Carty to play a 1/4 at this stage?

Anything is possible at this stage.

You think Jackson could get a call up? There's not a hope in hell, zero chance. Schmidt would spend every waking minute being asked about it. And there's been a lot of uproar over at London Irish.

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/LeinsterRoyalty/status/1165966724283457536?s=19

CowboyTed

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

VdF has a poor injury record though and for me has performed best for Ireland off the bench when the game opens up. Beirne is a machine. He has bags of pace, will gain metres, win turnover ball and has a brilliant ability to link play. But we don't play to his strengths as we don't offload the ball.

I think Joe favours certain type of players and there is no doubt Leinster players have an advantage. How Luke McGrath gets in ahead of Cooney given Cooney also gives you a goalkicking option is puzzling.

He hasn't helped himself by bringing on back up players like Marmion with 2 minutes to go in a game. Token gestures that give no chance for those players to make an impression and gives Murray and others the impression they are undroppable.

Anyway what is done is done. I just hope we can turn things around. Joe is in a tricky spot. If he tries too many new players the next day against Wales we could take another bad beating denting confidence further.

I honestly don't know what he is doing with Luke McGrath... He is at least the 4th place SH in the country and I would have Blade out of Connacht before him too...
He was found out against Saracens and Marmion has been proven at the highest grade. Was Marmion's performance against the All Blacks last year not good enough?
Jack Carty is getting very little quality game time... He is coming on when games are over and everyone beat up... I would like to see Carty and Marmion opted for as an alternative game plan of moving the ball at pace...

Saying that Rory Best looks a shadow on last year, time looks like it catches us all... I know I am favouring Connacht here but I wish he had a look a Heffernan, Connacht have three quality Hookers and thus makes it hard for any to stand out...

Henry Ford III

MattressRick wrote: »

You think Jackson could get a call up? There's not a hope in hell, zero chance. Schmidt would spend every waking minute being asked about it. And there's been a lot of uproar over at London Irish.

I've no idea about that.

Burkie1203

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/LeinsterRoyalty/status/1165966724283457536?s=19

That's a fairly handy team to be up against to gain some momentum

AbusesToilets

If the choice is between wasting 4 years of preparation for the world cup, or some controversy and outrage on Twitter, I know which one I would pick

CowboyTed

Faugheen wrote: »

This is just a load of nonsense really.

His passing I will give you, especially recently.

If you think his kicking game isn’t good enough then you don’t watch much of him. He has a great kicking game.

He’s also a very physical 9 and perhaps one of the best cover-tackling 9s out there.

I don’t think his form this season has been good enough, but I’ve seen nothing to suggest that Cooney is actually a better scrum half than him.

If I were to start a 9 tomorrow, it would be Marmion. Especially if Murray doesn’t find form very quickly.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we didn’t see the Marmion/Carty tandem starting against Wales.

Agreed Marmion is clearly ahead of both of them...

McGraths kicking against Saracens was poor.. I just don't find him super fast at the breakdown... And by the way they say Blade is faster than Marmion in training (that must be fun)..

Hey that would be some possibility: Marmion, Carty, Henshaw and Aki on t he one Irish team... Connacht could have a rye smile then...

AbusesToilets

AbusesToilets wrote: »

If the choice is between wasting 4 years of preparation for the world cup, or some controversy and outrage on Twitter, I know which one I would pick

This has been done to death but it was more than some twitter outrage. There were protests at every Ulster game. It would have got worse if it got to an Irish game. As much as I hate the court of public opinion, the IRFU had no choice.

Mr Tickle

CowboyTed wrote: »

Hey that would be some possibility: Marmion, Carty, Henshaw and Aki on t he one Irish team... Connacht could have a rye smile then...

CJ's not cutting it anymore. Need to try someone else. Like John Muldoon

pc7

The IRFU wouldn't touch Jackson even if we had to play Dev at 10, the sponsors would never allow it.

CowboyTed

damianmcr wrote: »

Either way im sure we will be told off by the mods with this Jackson talk but considering the worst case scenario another OH at least has to be called up.

Madigan
Jackson
.
.
.
.
Billy Burns.

Gareth Steenson plays more times for a better team...

CowboyTed

Mr Tickle wrote: »

CJ's not cutting it anymore. Need to try someone else. Like John Muldoon

Copeland... Your only man...:P

Shefwedfan

pc7 wrote: »

The IRFU wouldn't touch Jackson even if we had to play Dev at 10, the sponsors would never allow it.

Nothing to do with the sponsors.....


You would have people marching up and down the country.....the PR for IRFU would be a disaster.....


Jackson is gone, he will never return. Simple as that

Mr Tickle

https://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-defence-england-2019-4782195-Aug2019/

This one is interesting. It's actually kinda strangely comforting how simple the errors were. Lots of individual reads.
There were a lot of cobwebs to be blown off there so at least it was all done in one game.
This isn't a bad team. Fine you might have one or two changes you'd want to make but I'm confident that that's by far the worst performance we'll see this year.

EachSmallChime

pc7 wrote: »

The IRFU wouldn't touch Jackson even if we had to play Dev at 10, the sponsors would never allow it.

For all of these incredibly obvious reasons he will never be picked but even if we swept that all under the carpet, the lad has won only a single game of rugby in over 2 years.

An entire season out and a season with Perpignan who won two games over a season. He was only playing one of those 2 wins.

Lament 2016 Paddy all you like.

Shefwedfan

lawrencesummers wrote: »

McGrath’s passing is slow and not accurate enough, his kicking game isn’t good enough and he hasn’t the fitness for 60+ minutes and nowhere near the physicality that Murray brings.

I really do think you haven't watched any rugby for the past4 years. McGraths kicking game and box kicking is better than any of the others 9's...apart from Murray of course.....


Not sure what the fitness is about

sydthebeat

Mr Tickle wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-defence-england-2019-4782195-Aug2019/

This one is interesting. It's actually kinda strangely comforting how simple the errors were. Lots of individual reads.
There were a lot of cobwebs to be blown off there so at least it was all done in one game.
This isn't a bad team. Fine you might have one or two changes you'd want to make but I'm confident that that's by far the worst performance we'll see this year.

those defensive set pieces calls from some of our backs showed absolutely no trust in our wing forwards to get out and make the tackle.

there should be some very hard conversations during the reviews

Rattlehead_ie

The IRFU would still have Tyler Bleyendaal as an option before recalling foreign players.

Shefwedfan

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

The IRFU would still have Tyler Bleyendaal as an option before recalling foreign players.

Harry Byrne and the other U20 players as well


None of the overseas players will ever get picked. End of story

Mr Tickle

sydthebeat wrote: »

those defensive set pieces calls from some of our backs showed absolutely no trust in our wing forwards to get out and make the tackle.

there should be some very hard conversations during the reviews

Agreed. That was worth at least two trys. Plus the overthrown lineout near the end.
Then there was just some bad organization when it came to folding around rucks and stuff.
These are all things that we've done far better in the last two years. Nice and fixable.

Zzippy

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I really do think you haven't watched any rugby for the past4 years.

Mod: We've had quite enough of this condescending nonsense from you lately. Post in a more civil tone or take a hike. Final warning

Dubinusa

Post rwcshould be interesting.
I reckon that Farrell will dump several players.
A new cycle, a new stategy!

PTH2009

Dubinusa wrote: »

Post rwcshould be interesting.
I reckon that Farrell will dump several players.
A new cycle, a new stategy!

fear for this new era for some reason, i dont think Farrell will be strong enough on his own but ya never knw

in the 2020-2023 cycle we have 4 six nations, prob a tour to New Zealand or South Africa or Austrailia/ Argentina maybe USA (July 2020/21/22) and AI against the big SH teams

the 2016-2019 was quite amazing, 2 wins over the All Blacks, 1 Grand Slam, Series win Down under and a win in South Aftica. Among AI wins against Austrailia, South Africa, Argentina. The 2019 WC will hopefully add a to this amazing cycle but ATM very likely too

bilston

PTH2009 wrote: »

fear for this new era for some reason, i dont think Farrell will be strong enough on his own but ya never knw

in the 2020-2023 cycle we have 4 six nations, prob a tour to New Zealand or South Africa or Austrailia/ Argentina maybe USA (July 2020/21/22) and AI against the big SH teams

the 2016-2019 was quite amazing, 2 wins over the All Blacks, 1 Grand Slam, Series win Down under and a win in South Aftica. Among AI wins against Austrailia, South Africa, Argentina. The 2019 WC will hopefully add a to this amazing cycle but ATM very likely too

Depends on the players we have available.

Hooker is a position of concern, half back is a worry as Sexton is in the November of his career and even Murray can see the leaves browning as well, although he may have another WC cycle in him. Outside backs looks ok with one obvious exception...15.

Let's see on the young talent, but there were enough positive signs from the U20s to suggest there will be some players with test potential.

Add that to a new coach and coaching ticket and is certainly going to be interesting seeing how Ireland adapt.

CowboyTed

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I really do think you haven't watched any rugby for the past4 years. McGraths kicking game and box kicking is better than any of the others 9's...apart from Murray of course.....


Not sure what the fitness is about

https://extra.ie/2019/05/12/sport/rugby/leinster-fans-are-blaming-one-man-for-their-champions-cup-loss

Marmion just doesn't bother kicking the ball as much but it he can and is well capable...

Burkie1203

Sexton picked up an injury because a maul collapsed on him.

Why was he in the same country as maul practice??

99problems1

Sexton being injured might be a blessing in disguise. He was pretty much guaranteed to get injured during the WC itself anyways so at least now they can get the replacements head in the game and up to speed as much as possible.

99problems1

99problems1 wrote: »

Sexton being injured might be a blessing in disguise. He was pretty much guaranteed to get injured during the WC itself anyways so at least now they can get the replacements head in the game and up to speed as much as possible.

Such bizarre logic

shootermacg

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I really do think you haven't watched any rugby for the past4 years. McGraths kicking game and box kicking is better than any of the others 9's...apart from Murray of course.....


Not sure what the fitness is about

CowboyTed wrote: »

https://extra.ie/2019/05/12/sport/rugby/leinster-fans-are-blaming-one-man-for-their-champions-cup-loss

Marmion just doesn't bother kicking the ball as much but it he can and is well capable...

Marmion is arguable the best nine in Ireland at the moment. His kicking against the ABs was exceptional. Before that I didn't know he also had a strong kicking game.

Shefwedfan

shootermacg wrote: »

Marmion is arguable the best nine in Ireland at the moment. His kicking against the ABs was exceptional. Before that I didn't know he also had a strong kicking game.

Yes he has a good kicking game but not as good as McGrath....


I would still pick Marmion over McGrath......

Portsalon

Dubinusa wrote: »

Post rwcshould be interesting.
I reckon that Farrell will dump several players.
A new cycle, a new stategy!

Problem there is that he probably can't just "dump" centrally contracted players, even if he wanted to.

At this point in time, I've lost touch with which players are centrally contracted - apart from the luckless Sean O'Brien!

Podge_irl

Of course he can. People seem to get incredibly confused about causality when it comes to central contracts. They have them because they are unlikely to be dropped, not the other way round.

The conspiracy theory (which is essentially what it is) doesn’t even take into account the basic accounting of what an improved 6N performance is worth.

damianmcr

Having a central contract does not mean you automatically are picked.

salmocab

Portsalon wrote: »

Problem there is that he probably can't just "dump" centrally contracted players, even if he wanted to.

At this point in time, I've lost touch with which players are centrally contracted - apart from the luckless Sean O'Brien!

The centrally contracted players are most of the ones that no new coach will be ‘dumping’.

Portsalon

aloooof wrote: »

The reality is if Ireland get to a RWC SF, very few will remember the results from the warm-up games.

Perhaps.

Although I suspect that we'll be reminded about the Twickenham result when we play England there in the 6N, in less than 6 months' time! :eek:

Portsalon

Can anyone remind me of the last IRFU centrally contracted player who wasn't included in an international squad while fit to play?

salmocab

Portsalon wrote: »

Can anyone remind me of the last IRFU centrally contracted player who wasn't included in an international squad while fit to play?

Jack Mc Grath?

damianmcr

That wasnt what you said. You said they couldnt, they can be but maybe arent.