Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

reg114

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Key Points from Press Conference today

Sexton Available but likely rested until final game


-We were flat vs England
-No excuses for result
-To throw everything out would be a mistake
-Some Glimpses of pretty good work
-in this time of the cycle you do get some imbalanced results.
-England appear to have clarity and know where they are at (in their cycle)
-We need to see how much more competitive we are each week.
-After this weekend selections are done.
-Jonny put back a bit with thumb injury. Should play in final warm up
-No Blame (for result) learn and adjust

This is nonsense.

Sexton, our most important player will now have only one game under his belt before the world cup ...

To thow everything out would be a mistake? Well to stick with the duds and a gameplan that isnt working is a bigger mistake surely?

Some glimpses of pretty good work ? Absolutely delusional Joe

Imbalanced results ? Not buying it

England have clarity in their cycle ? Why dont we ?

No blame , learn and adjust? Basically more of the same.

The saddest thing about this is Joe is sullying his reputation. We heaped praise on the man when he brought us unparalleled glory so we have to apportion plenty of blame when he's at the helm of a shambles that really stretches back to the 6 nations. A month out from a wolrd cup and we couldnt be worst placed, now who's fault is that ? Joe's. If people say its the players too, my answer to that is that he has shown too much loyalty to said players.

shootermacg

Riskymove wrote: »

I really don't believe in making such wholescale change to a team that simply wont play. We need to mix a bit of starter and backup

In particular I would not play backups in both 9 and 10 positions

I think in these games should be getting the backup 10 ready to play with Murray or the 9 with Sexton

so I'd probably go Murray with Carty and then have Marmion and sexton in next game

Murray probably a bit sore after the tackle. Sexton with his thumb. Pointless risking them. Also Marmion is borderline first choice if Murray doesn't go well against Wales the following game.

the.red.baron

sxt wrote: »

Stolen from sportsjoe but this team looks realistic if they are looking to try out new guys and have cohesion and balance. I'd maybe switch farrell and henshaw positions in the midfield


1. Dave Kilcoyne (Munster)
2. Niall Scannell (Munster)
3. John Ryan (Munster)

4. Devin Toner (Leinster)
5. James Ryan (Leinster)

6. Tadhg Beirne (Munster)
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster)
8. Jack Conan (Leinster)

9. Kieran Marmion (Connacht)
10. Jack Carty (Connacht)

11. Jacob Stockdale (Ulster)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster)
13. Chris Farrell (Munster)
14. Andrew Conway (Munster)

15. Will Addison (Ulster)

Line out issues solved with that second row, whats the worry

Burkie1203

the.red.baron wrote: »

Line out issues solved with that second row, whats the worry

Not If the Hooker has a mare again

ionadnapokot

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Key Points from Press Conference today

Keith Earls - Tendinitis
Murray passed HIA
Sexton Available but likely rested until final game
Cain Healy recovering well and looking to get back.

-We were flat vs England
-No excuses for result
-To throw everything out would be a mistake
-Some Glimpses of pretty good work
-in this time of the cycle you do get some imbalanced results.
-England appear to have clarity and know where they are at (in their cycle)
-We need to see how much more competitive we are each week.
-After this weekend selections are done.
-Jonny put back a bit with thumb injury. Should play in final warm up
-No Blame (for result) learn and adjust

I noted he didn’t use the word “disheveled” or “malaise” this time

Utah_Saint

Hopefully this is accurate. i like the cut of that teams jib...especially Addison at 15 who has been fantastic for Ulster

shootermacg

reg114 wrote: »

This is nonsense.

Sexton, our most important player will now have only one game under his belt before the world cup ...

To thow everything out would be a mistake? Well to stick with the duds and a gameplan that isnt working is a bigger mistake surely?

Some glimpses of pretty good work ? Absolutely delusional Joe

Imbalanced results ? Not buying it

England have clarity in their cycle ? Why dont we ?

No blame , learn and adjust? Basically more of the same.

The saddest thing about this is Joe is sullying his reputation. We heaped praise on the man when he brought us unparalleled glory so we have to apportion plenty of blame when he's at the helm of a shambles that really stretches back to the 6 nations. A month out from a wolrd cup and we couldnt be worst placed, now who's fault is that ? Joe's. If people say its the players too, my answer to that is that he has shown too much loyalty to said players.

Calm down.
I think if Joe was to show up naked at the press conference and proceed to play the tin whistle out his nose, I'd think fair play Joe, you have so much cash in the bank you can do anything you like in your last year.

He's leaving this year, so it's not a year for him to suddenly turn on players that have served him well over the years. Why would you expect him to?

I think most of our problems are fixable and he's right we're not as far down the road as England. It will be the ultimate kick in the balls for the nay-sayers should our team get out of the group with minimal injuries and hand one of the top contenders their arse.

Joe simply has done too much for Ireland for me to doubt him.

the.red.baron

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Not If the Hooker has a mare again

a lot harder to miss those two lads


theirs a reason the line out functions with the long fella there


Sometimes a hooker gets the yips but it can be fixed in a week


Ask Shane Byrne

reg114

shootermacg wrote: »

Calm down.
I think if Joe was to show up naked at the press conference and proceed to play the tin whistle out his nose, I'd think fair play Joe, you have so much cash in the bank you can do anything you like in your last year.

He's leaving this year, so it's not a year for him to suddenly turn on players that have served him well over the years. Why would you expect him to?

I think most of our problems are fixable and he's right we're not as far down the road as England. It will be the ultimate kick in the balls for the nay-sayers should our team get out of the group with minimal injuries and hand one of the top contenders their arse.

Joe simply has done too much for Ireland for me to doubt him.

But sentiment doesnt come into it for me. I think he's been a revelation but the game stands still for no man. I think his methods are hampering our performances as are the players to whom he has shown too much loyalty. I hope you're right about the forthcoming world cup but I simply cannot see him arrest this collapse in form.

is_that_so

reg114 wrote: »

This is nonsense.

Sexton, our most important player will now have only one game under his belt before the world cup ...

To thow everything out would be a mistake? Well to stick with the duds and a gameplan that isnt working is a bigger mistake surely?

Some glimpses of pretty good work ? Absolutely delusional Joe

Imbalanced results ? Not buying it

England have clarity in their cycle ? Why dont we ?

No blame , learn and adjust? Basically more of the same.

The saddest thing about this is Joe is sullying his reputation. We heaped praise on the man when he brought us unparalleled glory so we have to apportion plenty of blame when he's at the helm of a shambles that really stretches back to the 6 nations. A month out from a wolrd cup and we couldnt be worst placed, now who's fault is that ? Joe's. If people say its the players too, my answer to that is that he has shown too much loyalty to said players.

Glimpses can be very very brief and we weren't out of it at HT. The cycle thing is probably right. See Aus-NZ, Eng-Wal and Scot-Fra this month for examples.

wittycynic

Faugheen wrote: »

Beirne won one turnover against Wales and was completely blown out of it afterwards.

He’s so over-rated on here that it’s criminal.

No point in solely basing his ability off one game where virtually the entire team played poorly.

He has, what, three international starts? Two of those were against Italy and the USA in November internationals.

I'm more than happy to come to a view that he doesn't deserve a place in the team, but only after he's been give an actual shot.

Faugheen

wittycynic wrote: »

No point in basing his sole ability off one game where virtually the entire team played poorly.

He has, what, three international starts? Two of those were against Italy and the USA in November internationals.

I'm more than happy to come to a view that he doesn't deserve a place in the team, but only after he's been give an actual shot.

Ok, any time Munster play a half-decent club in Europe or Leinster - bar one game at Thomond Park.

I’d much rather give other people chances than him at the moment. He doesn’t fancy it against the big teams.

Christy42

reg114 wrote: »

This is nonsense.

Sexton, our most important player will now have only one game under his belt before the world cup ...

To thow everything out would be a mistake? Well to stick with the duds and a gameplan that isnt working is a bigger mistake surely?

Some glimpses of pretty good work ? Absolutely delusional Joe

Imbalanced results ? Not buying it

England have clarity in their cycle ? Why dont we ?

No blame , learn and adjust? Basically more of the same.

The saddest thing about this is Joe is sullying his reputation. We heaped praise on the man when he brought us unparalleled glory so we have to apportion plenty of blame when he's at the helm of a shambles that really stretches back to the 6 nations. A month out from a wolrd cup and we couldnt be worst placed, now who's fault is that ? Joe's. If people say its the players too, my answer to that is that he has shown too much loyalty to said players.

Joe looks at boards and sees not enough game time for his reserve 10s so he plays them.

Joe looks at boards again and sees they are complaining about Sexton not getting enough of a game plan.

Our team was not made of did players.

Making 10+ changes any time you lose will see you lose a lot more games. It removes any chance of ever winning again.

Shockingly world class players don't permanently forget how to play rugby over the course of a year. They messed up, a lot.

When Joe says he saw glimpses of good he means the individual building blocks. So some good rucks or defensive decisions or whatever. Some pieces he was looking out for. However these were obviously not combined enough for the scoreboard to notice while England did. Rugby (and pretty much all sports) is about piecing these together. Even if an individual part didn't directly affect the scoreboard.

Again England did not go nuts and change their entire philosophy to rugby because 2018 went their way. They went about fixing the issues that were causing problems and emphasized the parts that worked well. There is no major shift with how they or Wales play. They have evolved over time but nothing crazy.


Joe still has 3 6 nation's titles and a grand slam in there as well as being our most successful coach against southern hemisphere sides. This is obviously a missing piece for him.

I am not sure how learn and adjust means the same to you but anyway

shootermacg

reg114 wrote: »

But sentiment doesnt come into it for me. I think he's been a revelation but the game stands still for no man. I think his methods are hampering our performances as are the players to whom he has shown too much loyalty. I hope you're right about the forthcoming world cup but I simply cannot see him arrest this collapse in form.

The guy is a workaholic, we know that. So if a guy is busting his nuts to get us past the quarter final, then I'm going to go along with it.

No one will remember the England game if we get to a semi. People are saying that we've been found out. That's not entirely true. You could watch Ireland play 2 games in 2018 and know how they were going to play but we were so ruthless at rucking and clearing out, contesting in the air etc, that there was not much you could do about it.

I think we'll have the same intensity when it comes to the WC, but you simply can't play seven games at that intensity and have much left in the tank for the quarter final.

reg114

Christy42 wrote: »

Joe looks at boards and sees not enough game time for his reserve 10s so he plays them.

Joe looks at boards again and sees they are complaining about Sexton not getting enough of a game plan.

Our team was not made of did players.

Making 10+ changes any time you lose will see you lose a lot more games. It removes any chance of ever winning again.

Shockingly world class players don't permanently forget how to play rugby over the course of a year. They messed up, a lot.

When Joe says he saw glimpses of good he means the individual building blocks. So some good rucks or defensive decisions or whatever. Some pieces he was looking out for. However these were obviously not combined enough for the scoreboard to notice while England did. Rugby (and pretty much all sports) is about piecing these together. Even if an individual part didn't directly affect the scoreboard.

Again England did not go nuts and change their entire philosophy to rugby because 2018 went their way. They went about fixing the issues that were causing problems and emphasized the parts that worked well. There is no major shift with how they or Wales play. They have evolved over time but nothing crazy.


Joe still has 3 6 nation's titles and a grand slam in there as well as being our most successful coach against southern hemisphere sides. This is obviously a missing piece for him.

I am not sure how learn and adjust means the same to you but anyway

All of the above involves Joe having time .. time Joe does not have

reg114

shootermacg wrote: »

The guy is a workaholic, we know that. So if a guy is busting his nuts to get us past the quarter final, then I'm going to go along with it.

No one will remember the England game if we get to a semi. People are saying that we've been found out. That's not entirely true. You could watch Ireland play 2 games in 2018 and know how they were going to play but we were so ruthless at rucking and clearing out, contesting in the air etc, that there was not much you could do about it.

I think we'll have the same intensity when it comes to the WC, but you simply can't play seven games at that intensity and have much left in the tank for the quarter final.

No faulting Joe's commitment to the cause, never have but what he is doing simply no longer works. For us to get to the semi's would involve a lazarus like resurrection, its simply not realistic at this stage.

Christy42

reg114 wrote: »

All of the above involves Joe having time .. time Joe does not have

I am not saying he will fix everything that went wrong. I am saying that doing it this way has a chance of success.

Random changes. Pulling in random players, changing the style entirely a month ago as some seem to be suggesting is guaranteed to fail.

Neil3030

shootermacg wrote: »

The guy is a workaholic, we know that. So if a guy is busting his nuts to get us past the quarter final, then I'm going to go along with it.

No one will remember the England game if we get to a semi. People are saying that we've been found out. That's not entirely true. You could watch Ireland play 2 games in 2018 and know how they were going to play but we were so ruthless at rucking and clearing out, contesting in the air etc, that there was not much you could do about it.

I think we'll have the same intensity when it comes to the WC, but you simply can't play seven games at that intensity and have much left in the tank for the quarter final.

Largely agree with this, except we have maintained the intensity for 5 6N games during the Grand Slam in 2018. Let's say only 4 games required us to be at max capacity (leaving Italy out of the equation). That would actually get us to a RWC final, i.e., 2 group games (Scotland, Japan), QF, SF. And with the greatest of respect to our dear hosts, I doubt we'll even need full intensity to beat them.

Shefwedfan

reg114 wrote: »

No faulting Joe's commitment to the cause, never have but what he is doing simply no longer works. For us to get to the semi's would involve a lazarus like resurrection, its simply not realistic at this stage.

Why? Ireland lost a warm up match.....

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Hopefully this is accurate. i like the cut of that teams jib...especially Addison at 15 who has been fantastic for Ulster

Fantastic I agree.....how many times has he played 15 for them?

wittycynic

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why? Ireland lost a warm up match.....

Because Ireland's performances have been on a sharp downward trajectory since last November, leading to a poor Six Nations and culminating in a record defeat to England last weekend, where it appeared none of the problems that have dogged us throughout the year have been addressed.

That's why.

Shefwedfan

reg114 wrote: »

All of the above involves Joe having time .. time Joe does not have

He has nearly a month till the Scotland game


Nearly 2 till the Qtrs


Fair but of time to me.....

Shefwedfan

wittycynic wrote: »

Because Ireland's performances have been on a sharp downward trajectory since last November, leading to a poor Six Nations and culminating in a record defeat to England last weekend, where it appeared none of the problems that have dogged us throughout the year have been addressed.

That's why.

No they haven't.

England - bad
Scotland - Ok performance and huge step up from England

Italy - bad but a reserve team and Italy a lot better than previous years(watch Wales game for reference)

France - Good
Wales - Bad


I don't count the warm up games because they played two different teams and they are warm up's


The France game last year was good. Personally I would say very good. They missed a few tries which would have upped the score.

Tomtom364

Faugheen wrote: »

Ok, any time Munster play a half-decent club in Europe or Leinster - bar one game at Thomond Park.

I’d much rather give other people chances than him at the moment. He doesn’t fancy it against the big teams.

Not coming up with a rake of turnovers against bigger teams doesn't exactly equate to not being good enough at that level though.

The bigger teams have better defenses and if you go back and watch, in a lot of Beirne's games against bigger teams he comes in for a heck of a lot of targeting if he is anywhere near a ruck. They know he is a major threat and they treat him accordingly.

Although he may not come up with the turnover stats as much in those games his presence forces teams to allocate resources to him which creates an opportunity for other players on his team. Its up to team as a whole to capitalize on that which unfortunately Munster have not been able to against only the 2 biggest teams in Europe.

Saying he dosn't fancy it against the big teams is hyperbolic nonsense. Not beating the 2 greatest teams in the last 10 years of European cup rugby is not fancying it against the big teams? Nonsense

aloooof

Faugheen wrote: »

Ok, any time Munster play a half-decent club in Europe or Leinster - bar one game at Thomond Park.

Would you count Exeter as a half-decent club? He got MOTM in both fixtures against them last season. (And the Leinster game in Thomond).

reg114

reg114 wrote: »

All of the above involves Joe having time .. time Joe does not have

Might as well start from scratch a few weeks out

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

No they haven't.

England - bad
Scotland - Ok performance and huge step up from England

Italy - bad but a reserve team and Italy a lot better than previous years(watch Wales game for reference)

France - Good
Wales - Bad


I don't count the warm up games because they played two different teams and they are warm up's


The France game last year was good. Personally I would say very good. They missed a few tries which would have upped the score.

That first England performance wasn't even as bad as people were making it out to be. Our expectations were utterly dashed which makes it seem worse. The performance against Wales in that six nations was far, far worse.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

That first England performance wasn't even as bad as people were making it out to be. Our expectations were utterly dashed which makes it seem worse. The performance against Wales in that six nations was far, far worse.

Ireland were owned in the 6N game by England really. completely out-muscled, out-thought, out-executed on the day.

Healy not spotted being held up for the try that was given and the Mako try which probably should have been given would have meant instead of 32-20, a 39-13 scoreline.

That game did a lot of damage to the confidence of the team, the extent of which was not really understood until later on.

Henry Ford III

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don't count the warm up games because they played two different teams and they are warm up's

Schmidt does though and his opinion really matters.


"It's an unacceptable result for us," he offered up.

"It was a performance beneath where we'd like to be. It's a performance beneath where we need to be.

"The whole group are very, very conscious that we have a short period of time to make sure we accelerate what is part of our progression.

"We did try and have a very rigorous pre-season and the pre-season really ran up until the Portugal camp".

"We tried to taper a little bit towards the end of the week but, really, we looked flat, we looked slow.

"We were inaccurate and didn't adjust when we could see where we were getting trouble."

Now no matter how many times you try to say the same thing (over and over) Joe's words just torpedo your views.

shootermacg

Some people would say that if England have their key players fit and firing, they'll beat any team in the world.

Shefwedfan

glasso wrote: »

Ireland were owned in the 6N game by England really. completely out-muscled, out-thought, out-executed on the day.

Healy not spotted being held up for the try that was given and the Mako try which probably should have been given would have meant instead of 32-20, a 39-13 scoreline.

That game did a lot of damage to the confidence of the team, the extent of which was not really understood until later on.

20 mins left Ireland still had a chance to win, so no Ireland where not “owned”

The wales game as pointed out was a lot worse as we never even got out of the blocks

Shefwedfan

shootermacg wrote: »

Some people would say that if England have their key players fit and firing, they'll beat any team in the world.

Not some, most if not all

England always had a huge amount of strength and depth, far more than the majority of rugby nations can match

They never really had Tuliagi, B Vunipola and idjoe in the same team, if they keep the starting 15 fit and don’t bottle it they could win the World Cup, NZ will struggle against that powerful

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

Would you count Exeter as a half-decent club? He got MOTM in both fixtures against them last season. (And the Leinster game in Thomond).

Exeter in Europe so far have been very poor....if the old ranking system was in place they would struggle to be outside the bottom tier

Utah_Saint

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Why? Ireland lost a warm up match.....




Fantastic I agree.....how many times has he played 15 for them?

not sure of the numbers, he did play a few games at 13...where he was also excellent. Reminds me of Payne in that he doesn't look quick but always finds the gap

Shefwedfan

Utah_Saint wrote: »

not sure of the numbers, he did play a few games at 13...where he was also excellent. Reminds me of Payne in that he doesn't look quick but always finds the gap

He is excellent player and pity he picked up injury, didn’t he start one game at 15 for Ireland, done well and then moved as a winger got injured?

ClanofLams

Think Schmidt will do something fairly significant to shake up the team. At least one of the ever presents from the last few years won’t be starting in the World Cup. It wouldn’t shock me to see a couple of the following happen, Ruddock come in at 6, Conan at 8, Murray dropped or Henshaw at 15 again.

The latter obviously didn’t work in February but Schmidt isn’t the type of coach to just take a punt on something like that working without having considered it in detail so given most of the team struggled that day, Henshaw might get another chance there.

AbusesToilets

ClanofLams wrote: »

Think Schmidt will do something fairly significant to shake up the team. At least one of the ever presents from the last few years won’t be starting in the World Cup. It wouldn’t shock me to see a couple of the following happen, Ruddock come in at 6, Conan at 8, Murray dropped or Henshaw at 15 again.

The latter obviously didn’t work in February but Schmidt isn’t the type of coach to just take a punt on something like that working without having considered it in detail so given most of the team struggled that day, Henshaw might get another chance there.

I think Joe might look for a second play maker at 15, so you like Carbery or Addison perhaps

Faugheen

aloooof wrote: »

Would you count Exeter as a half-decent club? He got MOTM in both fixtures against them last season. (And the Leinster game in Thomond).

No actually I wouldn’t, because Exeter can’t cut it in Europe.

And I already mentioned the Leinster game in Thomond, but in the semi final - the game that mattered - he was easily dealt with. Like the Pro14 final in 2018 and the same year’s Champions Cup semi final. All hyped up for him to have big days and he was easily dealt with

He’s grand but there are far better players who should be in the picture before him at 6.

However for some reason there’s a desperate need among Irish fans for Beirne to play, when he has shown nothing to warrant inclusion especially in the big games over a number of players.

It’s like this new toy who looks good on the eye and suddenly he’s better than everything else we have, which is quite simply not the case.

Vinnie222

Faugheen wrote: »

No actually I wouldn’t, because Exeter can’t cut it in Europe.

And I already mentioned the Leinster game in Thomond, but in the semi final - the game that mattered - he was easily dealt with. Like the Pro14 final in 2018 and the same year’s Champions Cup semi final. All hyped up for him to have big days and he was easily dealt with

He’s grand but there are far better players who should be in the picture before him at 6.

However for some reason there’s a desperate need among Irish fans for Beirne to play, when he has shown nothing to warrant inclusion especially in the big games over a number of players.

It’s like this new toy who looks good on the eye and suddenly he’s better than everything else we have, which is quite simply not the case.

About his form with Scarlets I recall many motm awards against top side .

Utopia Parkway

Shefwedfan wrote: »

20 mins left Ireland still had a chance to win, so no Ireland where not “owned”

A generous reading of a game that Ireland were comprehensively second best in and never looked like winning. Even if the game went on until midnight.

That performance though was still much better than the Wales game where Ireland were a shambles and last weekend against England when they were a complete and utter shambles.

Henry Ford III

ClanofLams wrote: »

Think Schmidt will do something fairly significant to shake up the team. At least one of the ever presents from the last few years won’t be starting in the World Cup. It wouldn’t shock me to see a couple of the following happen, Ruddock come in at 6, Conan at 8, Murray dropped or Henshaw at 15 again.

The latter obviously didn’t work in February but Schmidt isn’t the type of coach to just take a punt on something like that working without having considered it in detail so given most of the team struggled that day, Henshaw might get another chance there.

Might happen, or equally might not.

Jump_In_Jack

sxt wrote: »

Stolen from sportsjoe but this team looks realistic if they are looking to try out new guys and have cohesion and balance. I'd maybe switch farrell and henshaw positions in the midfield


1. Dave Kilcoyne (Munster)
2. Niall Scannell (Munster)
3. John Ryan (Munster)

4. Devin Toner (Leinster)
5. James Ryan (Leinster)

6. Tadhg Beirne (Munster)
7. Josh van der Flier (Leinster)
8. Jack Conan (Leinster)

9. Kieran Marmion (Connacht)
10. Jack Carty (Connacht)

11. Jacob Stockdale (Ulster)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Leinster)
13. Chris Farrell (Munster)
14. Andrew Conway (Munster)

15. Will Addison (Ulster)

There’s an interesting amount of connection there in an all-Munster front row, the Leinster locks, Connacht half-back pairing, Farrell and Conway 13 and 14, stockdale and Addison 11 and 15.
It would be interesting to see how these combinations could be more in tune with each other.
Would be even more interesting if Aki played instead of Henshaw to extend that Connacht influence from the halfbacks into the centre, and Ruddock instead of Beirne for an all-Leinster back row.

gally74

ClanofLams wrote: »

Think Schmidt will do something fairly significant to shake up the team. At least one of the ever presents from the last few years won’t be starting in the World Cup. It wouldn’t shock me to see a couple of the following happen, Ruddock come in at 6, Conan at 8, Murray dropped or Henshaw at 15 again.

The latter obviously didn’t work in February but Schmidt isn’t the type of coach to just take a punt on something like that working without having considered it in detail so given most of the team struggled that day, Henshaw might get another chance there.

Theres a chance,,, marmion carty aki and henshaw all start This weekend, 4 of conns pro 12 team, however i doubt well see many offloads, unless the players have a cut....

JRant

Marmion should be starting way more games than he actually does. He's arguably the best 9 we have right now and played brilliantly against NZ only to lose his spot straight away to a player that at the time was returning from injury and who's form has since then fallen off a cliff.

If we are going to beat the bigger packs then Marmion makes sense to me as he speeds up our attack considerably compared to Murray post-injury.

I'd like to see him play with a backrow that will offer some protection to him and Sexton outside him. I actually think a backrow of Beirne/Conan/VDF offers much better balance than what we are usually left with. Could also argue for Ruddock in there at 6 as well but I think Beirne gives a poaching option that none of our other players have.

Anyhow, we all know come the cruch games it will be Murray, POM/CJ/VDF.

Shefwedfan

JRant wrote: »

Marmion should be starting way more games than he actually does. He's arguably the best 9 we have right now and played brilliantly against NZ only to lose his spot straight away to a player that at the time was returning from injury and who's form has since then fallen off a cliff.

If we are going to beat the bigger packs then Marmion makes sense to me as he speeds up our attack considerably compared to Murray post-injury.

I'd like to see him play with a backrow that will offer some protection to him and Sexton outside him. I actually think a backrow of Beirne/Conan/VDF offers much better balance than what we are usually left with. Could also argue for Ruddock in there at 6 as well but I think Beirne gives a poaching option that none of our other players have.

Anyhow, we all know come the cruch games it will be Murray, POM/CJ/VDF.

Marmion was injured and was not fit during the 6 Nations. When he came back he got ok in the Wales game

If he was fit for the entire 6 nations then maybe he might have started some of the games

joseywhales

Twill be grand sure

aloooof

Faugheen wrote: »

No actually I wouldn’t, because Exeter can’t cut it in Europe.

And I already mentioned the Leinster game in Thomond, but in the semi final - the game that mattered - he was easily dealt with. Like the Pro14 final in 2018 and the same year’s Champions Cup semi final. All hyped up for him to have big days and he was easily dealt with

You criteria for "half-decent club side" seems to be how he performs against Leinster or Saracens i.e. the 2 best NH club sides of the past decade.

Just to add, that's fine. If he's in line for inclusion in the Ireland, we should be comparing how he has performed against the best. But it's disingenuous to make out like he's been poor against every "half-decent club side".

And if that is your criteria, you need to apply it to the alternatives too.

Paul Smeenus

aloooof wrote: »

You criteria for "half-decent club side" seems to be how he performs against Leinster or Saracens i.e. the 2 best NH club sides of the past decade.

Just to add, that's fine. If he's in line for inclusion in the Ireland, we should be comparing how he has performed against the best. But it's disingenuous to make out like he's been poor against every "half-decent club side".

While it's complete hyperbole to say he's poor against every half decent club side, as you say, he was poor and ineffective in both Castres games. Felt like a big pack bullied him, and he was invisible.

Clegg

In some positive news Schmidt thinks Carbery will be fit for the Scotland game.

Clegg

PoM will certainly have fallen upwards if he gets the captaincy and starts at 7 this weekend. It's what Murray Kinsella is reporting anyway.

Faugheen

aloooof wrote: »

You criteria for "half-decent club side" seems to be how he performs against Leinster or Saracens i.e. the 2 best NH club sides of the past decade.

Just to add, that's fine. If he's in line for inclusion in the Ireland, we should be comparing how he has performed against the best. But it's disingenuous to make out like he's been poor against every "half-decent club side".

And if that is your criteria, you need to apply it to the alternatives too.

How did he do against Castres? And Benetton in the quarter final?

‘Bullied’ I believe is the term. Big bruising packs which know how to handle him.

You asked me do I consider Exeter a half decent side and I don’t, because they’ve shown nothing in Europe to warrant that tag.