Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

Henry Ford III

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You what? Did I hallucinate the HC and Pro14 finals then? Or the season before that?

They were last season.

irishbucsfan

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Well, if he's not tackling, not carrying, and not winning turn over after turn over, what exactly is he doing? Adding value by virtue of his inspirational presence?

I mean there's essays that can be written about that but I don't really see the point in it

AbusesToilets

Henry Ford III wrote: »

They were last season.

You'd rather take this season's efforts to argue for Stander and POM then?

Downlinz

bilston wrote: »

The idea that Ringrose can just step into 10 at test level seems optimistic to me. It is such a hard position to master at pretty much any level, never mind test level, he may have the skillset for it, but he's got to be able to take the right option and then execute accurately every time when a million other things are going on around him. I suppose if anyone can do it then Ringrose can, but it would be a gamble in a match of consequence.

Addison played at 10 in the closing stages of a Heineken Cup match against Leicester last season, he's well capable.

Kevski

Noel Reid played at 10 in the closing stages of a Heineken Cup match against Toulouse last season...

AbusesToilets

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You'd rather take this season's efforts to argue for Stander and POM then?

I'd trust the man that sees them training on a daily basis and decided the gameplan are you saying Joe's incompetent or is your argument that Joe has some sort of anti Leinster bias?

Kevski

Gia Helpful Restaurant wrote: »

I'd trust the man that sees them training on a daily basis and decided the gameplan are you saying Joe's incompetent or is your argument that Joe has some sort of anti Leinster bias?

Things have certainly come full circle if Joe is now being accused of having an anti-Leinster bias :pac:

AbusesToilets

Gia Helpful Restaurant wrote: »

I'd trust the man that sees them training on a daily basis and decided the gameplan are you saying Joe's incompetent or is your argument that Joe has some sort of anti Leinster bias?

I'd question his decision to continue to select players who don't deliver performances, over players who do, yes. He's hardly infallible, as the selection of Kleyn would indicate.

Henry Ford III

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You'd rather take this season's efforts to argue for Stander and POM then?

I'm not arguing for anyone (what a silly notion that is).

bilston

Christy42 wrote: »

Is it a match of any consequence?

Ringrose has done plenty of work at first receiver for Ireland but being the out and out 10 is another step up. However it would be good to see how he gets on.

Or maybe Joe is happy to take that risk with other 10s all having their own injury concerns and this not being a massively important game.

No it's not a match of consequence, that's what I was trying to say. If we go into an important pool game or knockout game with Ringrose as our back up 10 then we are in trouble. To be fair I doubt it would ever come to that.

Stepping in at first receiver is one thing, but as the out half he has a lot more to do than just popping the ball to a support player or going for a spot pass behind someone's back.

bilston

Downlinz wrote: »

Addison played at 10 in the closing stages of a Heineken Cup match against Leicester last season, he's well capable.

Yeah possibly, I certainly remember him taking the kicks towards the end of that game, but was Burns not still on the pitch, just absolutely wrecked? Can't remember for certain. I might be confusing it with another match where Burns stayed on despite being obviously injured.

Former Former

If the decision has been made that Byrne isn't travelling, then picking him on the bench would be a waste of everyone's time while denying game time to someone who might actually need it.

If Carty gets injured and someone has to step in, so be it. We'll manage.

Podge_irl

Deleted User wrote: »

Schmidt was asked in the team announcement interview as to 10 cover and by the time the question was asked he'd already highlighted Addison's place kicking.

He then went on to highlight Ringrose who kicked in America against Italy I think.

This is not even remotely an answer to a question about covering 10...

Henry Ford III

Henry Ford III wrote: »

What form have Conan and Ruddock? They haven't played a competitive second this season.

Just clear things up for us, is the inference here we should stick with Stander?

Christy42

bilston wrote: »

No it's not a match of consequence, that's what I was trying to say. If we go into an important pool game or knockout game with Ringrose as our back up 10 then we are in trouble. To be fair I doubt it would ever come to that.

Stepping in at first receiver is one thing, but as the out half he has a lot more to do than just popping the ball to a support player or going for a spot pass behind someone's back.

Oh yeah I doubt it is a plan for a big game. I think it might be check the break glass selection (say two go down in a game) as well as saving the actual fly halves to ensure we don't have Ringrose for a big game at 10.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I mean there's essays that can be written about that but I don't really see the point in it

So he's wrong, you're not going to explain why, and something something Neil Back. Deadly.

Shefwedfan

Some class A trolling by some posters

Really looking forward to match tomorrow. Wales fans seem to be confident they will win and Ireland fans uncertain. Most of the confidence coming from wales is because they are at home....

It should give everyone a better idea on Ireland preparation and looking forward to seeing Addison, hopefully he gets a good run at 15....i think Larmour might be looking over shoulder at him

Even more exciting will be the Dublin game when it looks like a full ireland and wales team will clash, for wales that’s a huge match, even their own fans are concerned they can’t win away from Cardiff

guapos

Perhaps we'll see non compete clauses for coaches working on these tours in the future.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup-2019/its-an-awkward-situation-hes-seen-everything-we-deliver-schmidt-concerned-by-jones-springboks-move-38449818.html

Henry Ford III

Kailyn Jolly Mascot wrote: »

Just clear things up for us, is the inference here we should stick with Stander?

No.

p.s. It must be remembered that I don't pick the Irish team, and the most compelling argument is just as likely get someone overlooked as selected.

Henry Ford III

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Some class A trolling by some posters

Really looking forward to match tomorrow. Wales fans seem to be confident they will win and Ireland fans uncertain. Most of the confidence coming from wales is because they are at home....

It should give everyone a better idea on Ireland preparation and looking forward to seeing Addison, hopefully he gets a good run at 15....i think Larmour might be looking over shoulder at him

Even more exciting will be the Dublin game when it looks like a full ireland and wales team will clash, for wales that’s a huge match, even their own fans are concerned they can’t win away from Cardiff

Ah your imaginary conversations with opposition fans again. Very good.

sydthebeat

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Ah your imaginary conversations with opposition fans again. Very good.

Three cheers..... Very good....

Riskymove

guapos wrote: »

Perhaps we'll see non compete clauses for coaches working on these tours in the future.

I don't think non compete clauses can apply after your contract runs out only where you quit to move somewhere else

AdamD

Gia Helpful Restaurant wrote: »

I'd trust the man that sees them training on a daily basis and decided the gameplan are you saying Joe's incompetent or is your argument that Joe has some sort of anti Leinster bias?

Its impossible to have a reasoned argument on this forum when people's response is - well Joe picks them so he must be right.

Should we discuss selections at all then? After all Joe is making the picks...

Riskymove

AdamD wrote: »

Its impossible to have a reasoned argument on this forum...

after 12 years I think I can say that you can just stop there

Henry Ford III

AdamD wrote: »

Its impossible to have a reasoned argument on this forum when people's response is - well Joe picks them so he must be right.

Should we discuss selections at all then? After all Joe is making the picks...

Unless you can affect them why bother?

Shefwedfan

AdamD wrote: »

Its impossible to have a reasoned argument on this forum when people's response is - well Joe picks them so he must be right.

Should we discuss selections at all then? After all Joe is making the picks...

It's a preseason match.....selection is part fitness based and some combinations.....


Picking the selection apart is a smallbit pointless....once the WC comes around then it let fly

99problems1

Don't really see Carty being able to control a game that's in the balance.

I can see him being useful if we're up by 10 and he comes on with 20 to go where he can use his kicking more but that's about it.

sydthebeat

99problems1 wrote: »

Don't really see Carty being able to control a game that's in the balance.

I can see him being useful if we're up by 10 and he comes on with 20 to go where he can use his kicking more but that's about it.

If we're 5 down with 10 mins to go, I'd prefer carty on the field than Byrne to be honest.

Henry Ford III

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Unless you can affect them why bother?

You're here aren't you.

Henry Ford III

Kailyn Jolly Mascot wrote: »

You're here aren't you.

Sure am, but I'm not trying to influence the selection.

Henry Ford III

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Sure am, but I'm not trying to influence the selection.

I think we're all aware we don't influence selection. I'm not sure why you feel the need to tell people they should or shouldn't bother discussing the team selection, if you don't want to talk about then don't, off you go.

Henry Ford III

Kailyn Jolly Mascot wrote: »

I think we're all aware we don't influence selection. I'm not sure why you feel the need to tell people they should or shouldn't bother discussing the team selection, if you don't want to talk about then don't, off you go.

Reading much of this you'd think the opposite.

p.s. There's nothing wrong with pointing out something that is futile.

sydthebeat

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Reading much of this you'd think the opposite.

p.s. There's nothing wrong with pointing out something that is futile.

Futile??

Do you think posters here actually think they can influence selections???

Riskymove

Kailyn Jolly Mascot wrote: »

I think we're all aware we don't influence selection.

it is not that they think they can influence the selection but rather the amount of people who believe they know better than the coach that is fairly interesting

Henry Ford III

sydthebeat wrote: »

Futile??

Do you think posters here actually think they can influence selections???

Reading this would make you wonder sometimes

molloyjh

Yeah, it's one thing to disagree with a coaches selection. It's quite another to suggest that Joe is clearly making the wrong decision or is being found out as a guy who has been making wrong decisions etc. A lot of the language from people on here is of the "I know better" sort as opposed to the "personally I dont agree" sort. The latter is totally fine. The former is a bit arrogant and responses saying that maybe Joe does know better make sense in those cases.

thomond2006

If we can influence selection then we definitely need a Hayes thread.

Faugheen

sydthebeat wrote: »

99problems1 wrote: »

Don't really see Carty being able to control a game that's in the balance.

I can see him being useful if we're up by 10 and he comes on with 20 to go where he can use his kicking more but that's about it.

If we're 5 down with 10 mins to go, I'd prefer carty on the field than Byrne to be honest.

Based on what, exactly?

The Ross Byrne who has brought Leinster out of losing positions, including against Jack Carty’s Connacht?

Byrne is the only other OH in the Irish set up who has form for bringing his side out of losing positions apart from Sexton.

shootermacg

Faugheen wrote: »

Based on what, exactly?

The Ross Byrne who has brought Leinster out of losing positions, including against Jack Carty’s Connacht?

Byrne is the only other OH in the Irish set up who has form for bringing his side out of losing positions apart from Sexton.

It could and should be considered that Ross Byrne has a better team around him, and so gets a bit of an armchair ride.

shootermacg

I think we've hugely missed Sexton in the England game. For good or bad, you wouldn't have had a situation where Aki would be keeping and eye on Sexton.

Faugheen

shootermacg wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

Based on what, exactly?

The Ross Byrne who has brought Leinster out of losing positions, including against Jack Carty’s Connacht?

Byrne is the only other OH in the Irish set up who has form for bringing his side out of losing positions apart from Sexton.

It could and should be considered that Ross Byrne has a better team around him, and so gets a bit of an armchair ride.

Didn't realise the team were the ones kicking those clutch penalties/conversions from the sideline.

The ‘armchair ride’ argument is absolute bollocks. He has more form for helping his team win games from precarious positions. That’s a fact.

the perfect ten

Faugheen wrote: »

Didn't realise the team were the ones kicking those clutch penalties/conversions from the sideline.

The ‘armchair ride’ argument is absolute bollocks. He has more form for helping his team win games from precarious positions. That’s a fact.

How many games did Byrne do this in last season?

How many games did Carty do this in last season?

Evidence-based answers to both questions would be greatly appreciated.

shootermacg

Faugheen wrote: »

Didn't realise the team were the ones kicking those clutch penalties/conversions from the sideline.

The ‘armchair ride’ argument is absolute bollocks. He has more form for helping his team win games from precarious positions. That’s a fact.

Absolute bollox? I think your issue may be that you think in absolutes.

Burkie1203

the perfect ten wrote: »

How many games did Byrne do this in last season?

How many games did Carty do this in last season?

Evidence-based answers to both questions would be greatly appreciated.

Toulouse wasps Ulster in Europe
Munster in pro14 SF
Connacht at Xmas

Zzippy

thomond2006 wrote: »

If we can influence selection then we definitely need a Hayes thread.

You're gone past the stage where an intervention would help. At this stage a full psychiatric assessment is required.

Zzippy

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Toulouse wasps Ulster in Europe
Munster in pro14 SF
Connacht at Xmas

The Connacht game where yes, he made his kicks, but the Leinster bench actually won the game for them? The same game where Leinster were only in a losing position because of Jack Carty, who was MOTM and scored a brilliant individual try?

Former Former

Faugheen wrote: »

Based on what, exactly?

The Ross Byrne who has brought Leinster out of losing positions, including against Jack Carty’s Connacht?

Byrne is the only other OH in the Irish set up who has form for bringing his side out of losing positions apart from Sexton.

My memory of this is that it was Noel Reid and Ciaran Frawley coming off the bench that got us out of jail. Byrne nailed a couple of tough kicks but in terms of actually dragging us back into it, no.

Faugheen

Zzippy wrote: »

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Toulouse wasps Ulster in Europe
Munster in pro14 SF
Connacht at Xmas

The Connacht game where yes, he made his kicks, but the Leinster bench actually won the game for them? The same game where Leinster were only in a losing position because of Jack Carty, who was MOTM and scored a brilliant individual try?

If he doesn’t make those kicks, Do Leinster win the game?

The argument isn’t about who played better on the day, it’s about who steps up when the team needs them. Byrne has proven that over both Carty and Carbery this season.

The OP was about who you trust more when you’re losing with 10 minutes to go, not about who played well over 80 minutes and loses.

shootermacg

I think Ross needs a serious strength and fitness plan. He's surrounded by weights and good food, why is he so slight? It's not like his has any pace to speak of.

Faugheen

Former Former wrote: »

Faugheen wrote: »

Based on what, exactly?

The Ross Byrne who has brought Leinster out of losing positions, including against Jack Carty’s Connacht?

Byrne is the only other OH in the Irish set up who has form for bringing his side out of losing positions apart from Sexton.

My memory of this is that it was Noel Reid and Ciaran Frawley coming off the bench that got us out of jail. Byrne nailed a couple of tough kicks but in terms of actually dragging us back into it, no.

I make the same argument. If he doesn’t nail those kicks do Leinster win the game?