Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

liosnagceann75

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

Your point being?

Peter O'Mahony has the best vertical jump [CMJ - counter-movement jump]. He can reach about 63 centimetres from a standing start. That is what makes him such a great line-out jumper.

Copied that from an article about Irish rugby

errlloyd

Shefwedfan wrote: »

In the England game Toner was throwing him up.....

I have often wondered about this.

Obviously a 5'10 prop lifting a 6'10 guy is great, but he's also heavy. Now if you have a a 6'10 guy lifting a light 6'2 guy, is that not better?

D14Rugby

errlloyd wrote: »

I have often wondered about this.

Obviously a 5'10 prop lifting a 6'10 guy is great, but he's also heavy. Now if you have a a 6'10 guy lifting a light 6'2 guy, is that not better?

Not if that 6'10 player takes longer to get him up

Neil3030

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

Peter O'Mahony has the best vertical jump [CMJ - counter-movement jump]. He can reach about 63 centimetres from a standing start. That is what makes him such a great line-out jumper.

Copied that from an article about Irish rugby

So approx 24 inches. Is that the same vertical measurement used in the NFL? Lads there get over 40.

errlloyd

Neil3030 wrote: »

So approx 24 inches. Is that the same vertical measurement used in the NFL? Lads there get over 40.

Really? Ronaldo gets 30 inches and it's pretty damn good. Seems law of diminishing returns would make 40 exceptional!

Squidgy Black

Neil3030 wrote: »

So approx 24 inches. Is that the same vertical measurement used in the NFL? Lads there get over 40.

No it's a counter movement jump, so hands on the hips and measured to the top of the head, compared to the NFL which is how high can a player get their hand up.

ionadnapokot

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

ionadnapokot wrote: »

If that is the team, there is Massive pressure on Best without Henderson, Toner or POM; Kleyn is not a lineout jumper.

And Ryan to call it well.

His first was in Cardiff in 6N.
Stats say 15 from 17 with Beirne and POM that day. But my memory is of dysfunctional lineout?
Anyhow, Best is up against it now. It’s Like he is been given a Challenge with limited means to succeed.

Paul Smeenus

ionadnapokot wrote: »

His first was in Cardiff in 6N.
Stats say 15 from 17 with Beirne and POM that day. But my memory is of dysfunctional lineout?
Anyhow, Best is up against it now. It’s Like he is been given a Challenge with limited means to succeed.

Don't remember, particularly. But Henderson called them against England in our Grand Slam year and we got 11/11. It's consistency that's important. You need to keep calling them well. We'll see.

ionadnapokot

https://twitter.com/donnamalone21/status/1168934407203446787?s=21

Dubinusa

P.Walnuts wrote: »

He's comfortably better than any of the players you mentioned though

I disagree.

Burkie1203

ClanofLams wrote: »

He gave away a penalty and had no impact in open play. He was very average and any report I saw referred to him as such so don’t know who are referring to about him being very decent by all accounts.

Conan had a very good game in the tight areas. The areas that were not a strength a few years ago. He had a far better outing then Stander did v England even allowing for the opposition difference Stander might as well not have been on the pitch

Stander has been poor this year and is very predictable. Teams don't mind putting 2 or 3 guys on him to produce slow ball because that how to stop Ireland. We need to look at something different

shootermacg

Burkie1203 wrote: »

He had a far better outing then Stander did v England even allowing for the opposition difference

Really? How did you come by that statistic?

Squidgy Black

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Conan had a very good game in the tight areas. The areas that were not a strength a few years ago. He had a far better outing then Stander did v England even allowing for the opposition difference Stander might as well not have been on the pitch

Stander has been poor this year and is very predictable. Teams don't mind putting 2 or 3 guys on him to produce slow ball because that how to stop Ireland. We need to look at something different

Against England Stander had: 3 carries for 11 metres, 2 defenders beaten, made 15/17 tackles.

Against Wales Conan had: 8 carries for 5 metres, 0 defenders beaten, made 11/12 tackles.

shootermacg

BoardsMember wrote: »

Yes, but Stander did way more of the invisible stuff, where is that in your stats??!!

Looks very visible to me. And when you add in the quality of the opposition CJ having a bad game, against a bunch of beasts, in their prime was more effective than Conan against a bunch of boy-scouts.

aloooof

To my mind, Conan advanced his case far more during the 6 Nations than he did in the Wales game (from what I saw of it). He was far better in the 6 Nations than v Wales.

mr_edge_to_you

ionadnapokot wrote: »

https://twitter.com/donnamalone21/status/1168934407203446787?s=21

Had the pleasure of meeting him a few months back and he is an absolute gent. It was after a corporate event during which he was surprisingly and refreshingly honest. Completely different than what we see on tv and in the press.

Fingers crossed everything works out in the WC and Joe can head off into the sunset in a fitting manner, given all he has done for Irish rugby.

Henry Ford III

Shefwedfan wrote: »

So you think POM can play bad and not be up for criticism but Conan who my all account had a decent game against wales is open to criticism?

Did you not even see the game?

It's frankly incredible that you can fire up dozens of repetitive posts criticizing some player(s) and defending others if so.

p.s. It's Stander and not Standar.

Burkie1203

shootermacg wrote: »

Really? How did you come by that statistic?

Conan was very good at mauls in particular. Some of the workrate stuff he got criticised for before has gone from his game

If you going to judge by stats and stats alone, POM shouldn't be getting picked at all.

Henry Ford III

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Conan was very good at mauls in particular. Some of the workrate stuff he got criticised for before has gone from his game

If you going to judge by stats and stats alone, POM shouldn't be getting picked at all.

What did he do at them that impressed particularly? Did he win any turnovers?

Former Former

Stander was rubbish against a really good England.

Conan was pretty quiet against a mediocre Wales.

I have no idea how you decide which of those is better

Looks like both will start on Saturday anyway

Henry Ford III

Former Former wrote: »

Stander was rubbish against a really good England.

Conan was pretty quiet against a mediocre Wales.

I have no idea how you decide which of those is better

Looks like both will start on Saturday anyway

Bang on.

D14Rugby

Wrote a post saying I'd love to see a back row of stander conan VDF then deleted it, guess I'll get my wish anyway

EachSmallChime

Ireland:

15. Rob Kearney
14. Jordan Larmour
13. Robbie Henshaw
12. Bundee Aki
11. Keith Earls
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Conor Murray

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best (captain)
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. James Ryan
5. Jean Kleyn
6. CJ Stander
7. Josh van der Flier
8. Jack Conan.

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin
17. Dave Kilcoyne
18. Andrew Porter
19. Iain Henderson
20. Rhys Ruddock
21. Luke McGrath
22. Jack Carty
23. Garry Ringrose.

Burkie1203

No Carbery

KBurke85

Burkie1203 wrote: »

No Carbery

Despite what Joe said the last day I'd say it was always unlikely he'd be involved this weekend.

P.Walnuts

Henderson in, Ringrose in , Stockdale in and that's our strongest team imo

Mr Tickle

KBurke85 wrote: »

Despite what Joe said the last day I'd say it was always unlikely he'd be involved this weekend.

Agreed. Even if he trained this week they'd be better off letting him recover more.

I don't think the difference between him and Carty will be the deciding factor in the Scotland game anyway. So if you think he's a bit raw to be going into that game then he can come in against Japan and have a three game run (however many minutes you want to give him) to be ready for the QF.

Shefwedfan

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Did you not even see the game?

It's frankly incredible that you can fire up dozens of repetitive posts criticizing some player(s) and defending others if so.

p.s. It's Stander and not Standar.

I never mentioned Stander in the post you quoted...I was discussing Conan and POM. This was also a reply to a post that Conan should be critized for the Wales match and POM shouldn't......



I did mention Stander and how I would love to see him playing 6.....


So why exactly are you quoting me and having a little rant?

ClanofLams

Looks like it might be 23 Jersey for Ringrose in World Cup. Would have to think first choice centre pairing is being selected for Saturday.

ClanofLams

ClanofLams wrote: »

Looks like it might be 23 Jersey for Ringrose in World Cup. Would have to think first choice centre pairing is being selected for Saturday.

It's possible but I'd doubt it. He has played a good deal during the warm ups. I would similarly not read into Stockdale / POM not being present.

It's interesting that Henshaw is at 13 however.

Hard to know either way - Ringrose hasn't been on song and has looked limited in contact. Feel like there is something not 100% there.

molloyjh

ClanofLams wrote: »

Looks like it might be 23 Jersey for Ringrose in World Cup. Would have to think first choice centre pairing is being selected for Saturday.

I reckon Henshaws injury and the game time that Ringrose has had so far is the reason for this, but it is possible that this is our first choice centre pairing. I'd be disappointed if it was personally.

Henry Ford III

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I never mentioned Stander in the post you quoted...I was discussing Conan and POM. This was also a reply to a post that Conan should be critized for the Wales match and POM shouldn't......



I did mention Stander and how I would love to see him playing 6.....


So why exactly are you quoting me and having a little rant?

I asked a simple question. You chose to not answer it.

ClanofLams

Deleted User wrote: »

It's possible but I'd doubt it. He has played a good deal during the warm ups. I would similarly not read into Stockdale / POM not being present.

It's interesting that Henshaw is at 13 however.

Hard to know either way - Ringrose hasn't been on song and has looked limited in contact. Feel like there is something not 100% there.

Just think he would want to give his first choice centres a run out before Ireland Scotland rather than pitching them into together for first time in months (if it were henshaw ringrose).

There was also no need to name Ringrose at 23 last week, someone else could have covered that and ringrose could then have started this week. Be a more logical approach if he was first choice. Suspect it was done to get him some game time on wing as he will be covering it in World Cup.

molloyjh

We could easily see a mix and match of centres depending on opposition and approach either. So we could see Henshaw-Ringrose vs Scotland and Aki-Henshaw vs SA for example. Not how much we can read into it at all at this stage.

Shefwedfan

EachSmallChime wrote: »

Ireland:

15. Rob Kearney
14. Jordan Larmour
13. Robbie Henshaw
12. Bundee Aki
11. Keith Earls
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Conor Murray

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best (captain)
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. James Ryan
5. Jean Kleyn
6. CJ Stander
7. Josh van der Flier
8. Jack Conan.

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin
17. Dave Kilcoyne
18. Andrew Porter
19. Iain Henderson
20. Rhys Ruddock
21. Luke McGrath
22. Jack Carty
23. Garry Ringrose.

I like the look of the team,......


Great to see the first choice front row out. After a good showing from the team last week the pressure is on. Best has another dodgy showing and Scannell should expect to start


First time Conway isn't in match day squad this preseason?

aloooof

ClanofLams wrote: »

Just think he would want to give his first choice centres a run out before Ireland Scotland rather than pitching them into together for first time in months (if it were henshaw ringrose).

There was also no need to name Ringrose at 23 last week, someone else could have covered that and ringrose could then have started this week. Be a more logical approach if he was first choice. Suspect it was done to get him some game time on wing as he will be covering it in World Cup.

Technically, Dave Kearney was 23 and Ringrose was 22 but I suspect it's much a muchness considering we'd no 10 on the bench.

Mr Tickle

ClanofLams wrote: »

Just think he would want to give his first choice centres a run out before Ireland Scotland rather than pitching them into together for first time in months (if it were henshaw ringrose).

There was also no need to name Ringrose at 23 last week, someone else could have covered that and he could then have played this week. Be a more logical approach if he was first choice. Suspect it was done to get him some game time on wing as he will be covering it in World Cup.

I think it's more because he could end up covering wing. Similarly to how POM played 7 last week. I don't think he'll start there at any stage barring injury. but it makes sense to work on the roles that guys are less familiar with.

Personally i think it's a good set up for us to have one of the centres on the bench. we use our centres more than the wings so it makes more sense to be able to replace one. Ringrose is still probably in the lead for a starting role though. Or maybe Henshaw will slide back to play 15 for a while.

D14Rugby

ClanofLams wrote: »

Just think he would want to give his first choice centres a run out before Ireland Scotland rather than pitching them into together for first time in months (if it were henshaw ringrose).

There was also no need to name Ringrose at 23 last week, someone else could have covered that and ringrose could then have started this week. Be a more logical approach if he was first choice. Suspect it was done to get him some game time on wing as he will be covering it in World Cup.

There was absolutely need to try him at 22 last week. It directly influenced if we bring Addison or Farrell in the initial 31.

ClanofLams

aloooof wrote: »

Technically, Dave Kearney was 23 and Ringrose was 22 but I suspect it's much a muchness considering we'd no 10 on the bench.

Fair point.

Think Saturday’s centre pairing is first choice provided it goes alright, it just doesn’t make sense not to give your first choice combo a game together before Scotland, especially with this being Murray and Sextons first start. Ringrose played a half on the wing last week, no real reason he couldn’t start this week especially given Aki has played the last two full games at 12.

Mr Tickle

ClanofLams wrote: »

Fair point.

Think Saturday’s centre pairing is first choice provided it goes alright, it just doesn’t make sense not to give your first choice combo a game together before Scotland, especially with this being Murray and Sextons first start. Ringrose played a half on the wing last week, no real reason he couldn’t start this week especially given Aki has played the last two full games at 12.

Also if he replaces Aki with Ringrose at half time then we'll have tried almost every possible centre combo. i think Henshaw-Farrell will be the only unused one.

BoardsMember

ClanofLams wrote: »

Fair point.

Think Saturday’s centre pairing is first choice provided it goes alright, it just doesn’t make sense not to give your first choice combo a game together before Scotland, especially with this being Murray and Sextons first start. Ringrose played a half on the wing last week, no real reason he couldn’t start this week especially given Aki has played the last two full games at 12.

The bold bit makes sense. I just can't see the sense in Henshaw at 13, he hasn't played himelf into that position - no games and usually a 12, and has Ringrose been so bad he's played himself out? I won't be surprised if we see Ringrose at 13 v Scotland.

Cookiemunster

BoardsMember wrote: »

The bold bit makes sense. I just can't see the sense in Henshaw at 13, he hasn't played himelf into that position -no games and usually a 12, and has Ringrose been so bad he's played himself out? I won't be surprised if we see Ringrose at 13 v Scotland.

I do find it amusing that that people completely ignore the fact that Henshaw didn't play 12 regularly until he got to Leinster. The Aki/Henshaw 12/13 partnership won a Pro12 title at Connacht. Coming up he was seen as the natural replacement for BOD in the Irish 13 jersey. Yes he hasn't played there in a while, but it's not like he can't play there.

BoardsMember

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I do find it amusing that that people completely ignore the fact that Henshaw didn't play 12 regularly until he got to Leinster. The Aki/Henshaw 12/13 partnership won a Pro12 title at Connacht. Coming up he was seen as the natural replacement for BOD in the Irish 13 jersey. Yes he hasn't played there in a while, but it's not like he can't play there.

A while in this case is 3 years. And he hasn't been playing much rugby lately. I don't think he should be played at 13.

Aki has probably played more 13 than Henshaw has in years since he moved to Leinster. It's not that he can't do it, its that he doesn't do it.

Remember all the cheers when Henshaw was picked for Ireland at 15? Lots of people had been saying he's Ireland's best full back, he just isn't being picked there.

13 is a notoriously difficult position to defend, it's a big ask on his first game back in a while.

joseywhales

We should drop the notion of first choice 15 and replace it with first choice 30 mins +.....really rolls off the tongue.

ClanofLams

BoardsMember wrote: »

The bold bit makes sense. I just can't see the sense in Henshaw at 13, he hasn't played himelf into that position - no games and usually a 12, and has Ringrose been so bad he's played himself out? I won't be surprised if we see Ringrose at 13 v Scotland.

I thought Ringrose would be at 13 this weekend. It could be that Schmidt has decided Aki is first choice 12 and yet to decide on who plays 13. But it looks good for Aki either way, if Henshaw Ringrose was first choice they would be playing together this weekend.

Wegians89

ClanofLams wrote: »

I thought Ringrose would be at 13 this weekend. It could be that Schmidt has decided Aki is first choice 12 and yet to decide on who plays 13. But it looks good for Aki either way, if Henshaw Ringrose was first choice they would be playing together this weekend.

Think ringrose has been involved in all four games?

ClanofLams

ClanofLams wrote: »

I thought Ringrose would be at 13 this weekend. It could be that Schmidt has decided Aki is first choice 12 and yet to decide on who plays 13. But it looks good for Aki either way, if Henshaw Ringrose was first choice they would be playing together this weekend.

Aki has started basically every big test going back quite a ways so I don't have any doubt he's first choice now for Schmidt.

ClanofLams

Wegians89 wrote: »

Think ringrose has been involved in all four games?

Yeah but he played 25 mins on the wing last week, really don’t think that would stop Schmidt putting out Henshaw Ringrose this week if it was first choice and he intends to start them against Scotland.

aloooof

Kailyn Jolly Mascot wrote: »

Aki has started basically every big test going back quite a ways so I don't have any doubt he's first choice now for Schmidt.

He also hasn't picked up as many injures as Henshaw and Ringrose have, I believe, so I wonder is Schmidt putting value on that considering what happened in the last RWC.

aloooof

joseywhales wrote: »

We should drop the notion of first choice 15 and replace it with first choice 30 mins +.....really rolls off the tongue.

And change substitutes to first choice after 30 mins? It's still better than Eddie Jones' "finishers"...