Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

WeleaseWoderick

aloooof wrote: »

Interested to know where you heard this and what exactly was said? He was on Off the Ball on Sunday and the only mention of POM was this:

Actually think it was Jerry Flannery that mentioned it about POM on House of Rugby. "He's not going to post huge numbers work-rate wise but he can have big big moments" was the quote.

They were discussing the makeup of the backrow and the importance of POM to the lineout.

lawrencesummers

PinaKolada wrote: »

Can't really call it a howler when a guy is well offside to get the intercept on pass in a set piece move though.

An intercept isn’t a howler now. Fair play. Good to know.

lawrencesummers

Clegg wrote: »

Well yeah.

This was his first game in 4 months. One which he grew into as it progressed. Sexton was fine.

He was far from fine, he was below par, lacked game time and made a number of mistakes, kicked a 22 out on the full, threw an intercept, gave away a kick able penalty.

His preparations have been interrupted but he could do with another game before the Scotland match, which he’s not going to get.

PinaKolada

Batrachotox wrote: »

Aw you don't want to play and are taking your toys with you?

I'd love to hear some of your searing analysis, it would be a refreshing change from the low quality trash of us mere mortals - enlighten us, please

I've better things to do than exchange overdone Father Ted jokes and invent wacky conspiracy theories to show how hilarious I am.

Like I said enjoy the world cup. Just remember you don't always have to be a dick despite the boards ethos.

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

Interested to know where you heard this and what exactly was said? He was on Off the Ball on Sunday and the only mention of POM was this:

Your right, it was Fla on Baz and Andrew....too many podcast

Batrachotox

Batrachotox wrote: »

I'd love to hear some of your searing analysis, it would be a refreshing change from the low quality trash of us mere mortals - enlighten us, please

cadaliac

PinaKolada wrote: »

I've better things to do than exchange overdone Father Ted jokes and invent wacky conspiracy theories to show how hilarious I am.

Like I said enjoy the world cup. Just remember you don't always have to be a dick despite the boards ethos.

Bye bye.

thomond2006

Feed me more Father Ted.

mitresize5

PinaKolada wrote: »

Try hard comedy responses and posters just being dicks and talking nonsense.

The usual boards.ie low quality trash discussion then. I'll leave you morons to it. Enjoy the world cup.

I wouldnt have put it so 'eloquently' but I'm in agreement.


I'm buzzing at the thought of the world cup and dropped in here to get the vibe but the level of discussion is woefully poor.


In the last few days I've seen Johnny Sexton, Conor Murray, Keith Earls and Peter O Mahoney questioned. Add James Ryan to these and you have probably the only 5 guys on the team who are nailed on starters if fit.


The inter provincial snipping is worthy of 5 year olds and the mood swings between England and Wales matches is worthy of a misfortune in the darkest throws of menopause


Try and enjoy it peeps, over and out

molloyjh

To be fair, the level of discussion here over the last few weeks is a fair bit below where its normally at. I'm probably going to give the place a miss over the course of the RWC and I know a lot of other regulars have already stepped away from the place. That said there is room for having a but of a laugh too. The Venjur thing is just an ongoing gag, so probably a bit "in jokey". No harm in it at all.

Yep, I said it. You're only harmless Venjur...

irelandrover

My comment was because there was pages and pages of discussion on Kleyn. All that poster had to do was go back a week and read some opinions.

Instead they made a comment that was probably going to drag the whole thread back into the same arguments over multiple pages that was had a week ago.

They didn't say anything new. They were too lazy to go back and see what others had said.

99problems1

Sexton unfortunately is past it. His ability to break a line is gone and I doubt he even has the speed for consistent wrap arounds.

There's not really much of a threat when ball is in hand with Sexton. He's not going to chip and chase, he's not going to break a line.

He can't consistently take it to the gain line because he's been battered all his career and more injury prone now. If Sexton lasts the full tournament I'd be surprised. He went down v Wales, I thought that he was done.

99problems1

99problems1 wrote: »

Sexton unfortunately is past it. His ability to break a line is gone and I doubt he even has the speed for consistent wrap arounds.

There's not really much of a threat when ball is in hand with Sexton. He's not going to chip and chase, he's not going to break a line.

He can't consistently take it to the gain line because he's been battered all his career and more injury prone now. If Sexton lasts the full tournament I'd be surprised. He went down v Wales, I thought that he was done.

https://youtu.be/TIrN2KSh2aI?t=36

99problems1

Deleted User wrote: »

https://youtu.be/TIrN2KSh2aI?t=36

Haha good one alright. Did well there.

Shambolic defending by France though...he tackled his own man.

Shefwedfan

99problems1 wrote: »

Haha good one alright. Did well there.

Shambolic defending by France though...he tackled his own man.

Yes the World Player of the Year is done for :p:p

bilston

molloyjh wrote: »

To be fair, the level of discussion here over the last few weeks is a fair bit below where its normally at. I'm probably going to give the place a miss over the course of the RWC and I know a lot of other regulars have already stepped away from the place. That said there is room for having a but of a laugh too. The Venjur thing is just an ongoing gag, so probably a bit "in jokey". No harm in it at all.

Yep, I said it. You're only harmless Venjur...

Venjur is the big scary dude from Dungeons and Dragons. Nothing harmless about him!

salmocab

bilston wrote: »

Venjur is the big scary dude from Dungeons and Dragons. Nothing harmless about him!

Didn’t he have a broken horn?

Mr Tickle

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Yes the World Player of the Year is done for :p:p

Can we please stop calling him that? He had a very good 2017/2018 and fully deserved the title when he got it. He was coming off the back of a double with Leinster and a Grand Slam as well as some really outstanding personal moments along the way.

But he's had a poor 2019 to date. Even in winning the pro 14 with Leinster he wasn't up to his own standards.

Referring to him as "world player of the year" at this stage just seems kinda desperate or something.

I'm sure he'll come good again and is still the starting 10 but lets not persist with thak kind of claim until he deserves it again. It's like the scarletts claiming to be the reigning pro12 champions.

blackwhite

mitresize5 wrote: »

In the last few days I've seen Johnny Sexton, Conor Murray, Keith Earls and Peter O Mahoney questioned. Add James Ryan to these and you have probably the only 5 guys on the team who are nailed on starters if fit.

Shefwedfan

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Can we please stop calling him that? He had a very good 2017/2018 and fully deserved the title when he got it. He was coming off the back of a double with Leinster and a Grand Slam as well as some really outstanding personal moments along the way.

But he's had a poor 2019 to date. Even in winning the pro 14 with Leinster he wasn't up to his own standards.

Referring to him as "world player of the year" at this stage just seems kinda desperate or something.

I'm sure he'll come good again and is still the starting 10 but lets not persist with thak kind of claim until he deserves it again. It's like the scarletts claiming to be the reigning pro12 champions.

At the moment he is the World Player of the Year.......

Referring to him as "past it" seems desperate to me and that's why I used the World Player of the Year to show how ridiculous the statement was....

I would question the poor 2019......

https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/player-ratings%3A-leinster-v-toulouse/615803

10. Jonathan Sexton - 8.5
Controlled the game for just over an hour on his return from injury. Linked up well with his fellow backs and missed just one shot off the tee. His trademark loop and decision making was superb. Was named man of the match for his efforts as his team surged to another final.

Kevski

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Can we please stop calling him that? He had a very good 2017/2018 and fully deserved the title when he got it. He was coming off the back of a double with Leinster and a Grand Slam as well as some really outstanding personal moments along the way.

But he's had a poor 2019 to date. Even in winning the pro 14 with Leinster he wasn't up to his own standards.

Referring to him as "world player of the year" at this stage just seems kinda desperate or something.

I'm sure he'll come good again and is still the starting 10 but lets not persist with thak kind of claim until he deserves it again. It's like the scarletts claiming to be the reigning pro12 champions.

Wales have lost their last two matches so should we stop claiming that they are Gland Slam Champions too?

Mr Tickle

Shefwedfan wrote: »

At the moment he is the World Player of the Year.......

Referring to him as "past it" seems desperate to me and that's why I used the World Player of the Year to show how ridiculous the statement was....

I would question the poor 2019......

https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/player-ratings%3A-leinster-v-toulouse/615803

10. Jonathan Sexton - 8.5
Controlled the game for just over an hour on his return from injury. Linked up well with his fellow backs and missed just one shot off the tee. His trademark loop and decision making was superb. Was named man of the match for his efforts as his team surged to another final.

He is. Though if they held the awards tomorrow I don't think he makes the long list.

And fair enough about the Toulouse game. I'm not sure i saw that one. I was thinking more in terms of international games.

And i wasn't aiming all of this at your use of the phrase. It's been trotted out here a couple of times in the last month or so like a kind of silver bullet.

He's not past it. Nor is he deserving of world player of the year at the moment.

Mr Tickle

Kevski wrote: »

Wales have lost their last two matches so should we stop claiming that they are Gland Slam Champions too?

Probably not but if they have a poor WC and lose a meaningful game i'd question whether the title means anything anymore.

Hobosan

Invoking Player of the Year status is a non-sequiter.

For example, if Sexton lost a leg in a tragic hoovering accident tomorrow, it would be foolish to continue selecting him because he's technically the reigning player of the year, as any Irish player that puts hoovering ahead of World Cup prep doesn't deserve to travel.

Tomtom364

From the image posted Sexton doesn't look to be back 10 from the lineout either, and if the attacking team encroachs the 10m line the defence is allowed too aswell, Bigger is quick enough so although I don't think it can be said at all that he was 100% onside, I don't think it can be said 100% offside either

Regardless Sexton should never have thrown that pass. Bigger didn't have to stretch out to get it at the end of his grip he actually stopped and waited for Sexton to throw the pass.

Rusty mistake and forgiveable for that reason? absolutely.
But it was still a bit of a howler. He surely just didn't see Bigger if he did he should have turned the shoulder and trucked it up or basically anything else but throw that pass.

Mr Tickle

Hobosan wrote: »

Invoking Player of the Year status is a non-sequiter.

For example, if Sexton lost a leg in a tragic hoovering accident tomorrow, it would be foolish to continue selecting him because he's technically the reigning player of the year, as any Irish player that puts hoovering ahead of World Cup prep doesn't deserve to travel.

Finally someone is talking sense

ionadnapokot

kingofthekong wrote: »

ionadnapokot wrote: »

You would be very much in the minority if you don’t think POM adds value to the Lineout.
I would think he’s nailed on. Now more than ever in Toners absence.

He’s also a big game player, a leader, and despite not been at his best in 2019 managed a MOTM v Scotland.

oh for christ sake - weve been hearing hes a big game player all season to camouflage how average he has been - he could be bloody Michael jordan in the lineouts and I still wouldnt pick him

You cannot pick a player who literally does nothing but take a couple lineouts per game he has one of the lowest tackle/carry numbers i've ever seen on an international backrow and other backrows also do lineouts, carry and tackle you gotta be able to do all three

hes been a passenger for most of the season, having one good game every hundred is not enough to guarantee you spot in the no.1 ranked international team in the world...

Name another country in the top 5 he would start for........none so he shouldnt start for us

Reward the players who got the result last week and lets give some time for Stander, Conan and VDJ to gel together and become a better unit

If I was Peter O’Mahony I would just stare at you. With real intent. And wait for you to change your opinion.
But I’m not. And I can’t see you!! So I’ll just tell you what’s going to happen....
He’ll start against Scotland and have an absolute stormer. Probably win at least one ball against the throw and grab 2 or 3 of our own. Make at least one turnover; Barnes likes him ( which is some achievement), 10 tackles and collar at least 3 Scots.
You will be roaring him on throughout and as POM rises from bowels of another ruck with a victory scream at the final whistle. Tears will flow uncontrollably down your sceptical face and Peter will simply stare at you down the camera lens and into your enlightened soul.

bilston

salmocab wrote: »

Didn’t he have a broken horn?

Yeah, but don't mistake that for weakness, I remember having nightmares about him as a kid

ManAboutCouch

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

What in the name of Zeus is the interest in beating Scotland?
If ever there were a dead rubber, that game is it. The making or breaking of this campaign is the quarter final. Have our first choice, fully healthy for that game, is all that matters.

I don't think Ireland's first game at the RWC could be classed as a dead rubber. There are too many unknowns at that stage. Imagine that the Ireland-Russia game gets rained off. It's typhoon season and it's a scenario that might come into play. Getting just 2 match points from that fixture could see Ireland finishing in 3rd place if they lose to Scotland, even if they win vs Japan and Samoa.

Schmidt's squad selections, training profile and recent comments do seem to show that the QF is being heavily targetted, and rightly so. However, losing that first game would mean that some first XV players would have to play more minutes to ensure qualification than they would if Ireland got 4 or 5 points from the match.

Shefwedfan

Mr Tickle wrote: »

He is. Though if they held the awards tomorrow I don't think he makes the long list.

And fair enough about the Toulouse game. I'm not sure i saw that one. I was thinking more in terms of international games.

And i wasn't aiming all of this at your use of the phrase. It's been trotted out here a couple of times in the last month or so like a kind of silver bullet.

He's not past it. Nor is he deserving of world player of the year at the moment.

Bit of a statement saying he wasn't up to standard all season for Leinster but you forgot to mention you didn't watch him play?


How was his performance when he came off the bench in the Munster match?

What about the game against Glasgow in the Pro14 final?

salmocab

bilston wrote: »

Yeah, but don't mistake that for weakness, I remember having nightmares about him as a kid

I was more thinking if our Venjur also has a broken horn.
‘‘Twas a great show all the same.

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Bit of a statement saying he wasn't up to standard all season for Leinster but you forgot to mention you didn't watch him play?

Ah here. The poster mentioned he didn't see him play in one game, and said fair enough to your point about the Toulouse game.

Have you seen every minute of every player this season that you comment on?

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

Ah here. The poster mentioned he didn't see him play in one game, and said fair enough to your point about the Toulouse game.

Have you seen every minute of every player this season that you comment on?

It was the Heniken Cup Semi Final. One of the biggest games of the year in Irish rugby....Not like a Pro14 game against Zebre....I didn't make the statement that Sexton was not up to standard all year for Leinster


Also the match v Munster, another semi final, Sexton came on and the whole team moved up a gear and he was class.....

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It was the Heniken Cup Semi Final. One of the biggest games of the year in Irish rugby....Not like a Pro14 game against Zebre....I didn't make the statement that Sexton was not up to standard all year for Leinster

Also the match v Munster, another semi final, Sexton came on and the whole team moved up a gear and he was class.....

It's one match in isolation, it's far too small a sample size to be judging anything. The Munster game, he came on with then game was 19-9.

How do you think Sexton's 2019 form stacks up against, say, each of his last 5 seasons?

sydthebeat

Sweet Jesus, roll on the 20th so we can talk about actual rugby!


The seagulls follow the trawler.....

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

It's one match in isolation, it's far too small a sample size to be judging anything. The Munster game, he came on with then game was 19-9.

How do you think Sexton's 2019 form stacks up against, say, each of his last 5 seasons?

He was the best 10 in World till Christmas.....

Hard to tell after as he was restricted with injury.....Also he played a lot of rugby prior to Christmas so it would suggest it was planned by IRFU.

He had a bad game against Wales which of course got the usual crowd going after him. Apart from that Toulouse, France, Scotland(before going off), Munster he was excellent

In Pro14 final took bang early on but in second half ran the team very well before been taken off. Still a 7 out of 10 performance.


All in not too bad....

What do you think?

Dubinusa

Amazing. Nobody is talking about Beirne!! Kleyn's inclusion has stopped the Beirne express.
The way it looks. Beirne will most likely see game time against Russia. It's stunning. Of course, injuries will be a factor.
As for the back row, all players selected bring something different. For me. VDF must start. I would use Tuddock as his back up.
I thought Conan was very good on Saturday. But. Standers was very good at 6.
I think it should be the same back row b Scotland.
Still would go with Ringrose, if he is healthy. But , he looks like he's carrying some type of niggle.
Tally ho.

Henry Ford III

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Bit of a statement saying he wasn't up to standard all season for Leinster but you forgot to mention you didn't watch him play?


How was his performance when he came off the bench in the Munster match?

What about the game against Glasgow in the Pro14 final?

You're well able comment on matches you haven't seen too.

Your repetitive and frankly very thinly veiled "Leinster good, and everybody else (particularly Munster) bad slant renders every post you make here (and goodness knows you make an awful lot of them) poisoned and of little or no value.

It's so clear what your agenda is.

Any hope you'd cop on because you are making a pigs ear out of a decent forum.

Shefwedfan

Dubinusa wrote: »

Amazing. Nobody is talking about Beirne!! Kleyn's inclusion has stopped the Beirne express.
The way it looks. Beirne will most likely see game time against Russia. It's stunning. Of course, injuries will be a factor.
As for the back row, all players selected bring something different. For me. VDF must start. I would use Tuddock as his back up.
I thought Conan was very good on Saturday. But. Standers was very good at 6.
I think it should be the same back row b Scotland.
Still would go with Ringrose, if he is healthy. But , he looks like he's carrying some type of niggle.
Tally ho.

Beirne seems like the ideal bench player if not starting. He has played in second row, also 6 and 8 for Scarlets. Of course he played 6 for Ireland. I would expect he can cover 7 if required.



Stander was hugely effective at 6 and I did mention this for a while now. If Heaslip was still playing I would expect Stander to be at 6. Conan had a solid game but it was mentioned on radio he has a niggle but no details....I do expect VDF to start v Scotland



Unsure about Centre partnership, as they have 2 games quickly at the start it might be Aki/Henshaw up first and then play Farrell/Ringrose in second match, or some sort of similar combination.



Ireland's game plan is hard on centres so I would expect them to swap over the two games....

99problems1

Dubinusa wrote: »

Amazing. Nobody is talking about Beirne!! Kleyn's inclusion has stopped the Beirne express.
The way it looks. Beirne will most likely see game time against Russia. It's stunning. Of course, injuries will be a factor.
As for the back row, all players selected bring something different. For me. VDF must start. I would use Tuddock as his back up.
I thought Conan was very good on Saturday. But. Standers was very good at 6.
I think it should be the same back row b Scotland.
Still would go with Ringrose, if he is healthy. But , he looks like he's carrying some type of niggle.
Tally ho.

It's a travesty if Kleyn is skipped to the front of the queue despite only qualifying for Ireland a few days before his first cap.

I wonder will Kleyn stay around Ireland when he's retired?

Shefwedfan

99problems1 wrote: »

It's a travesty if Kleyn is skipped to the front of the queue despite only qualifying for Ireland a few days before his first cap.

I wonder will Kleyn stay around Ireland when he's retired?

What do you classify as skipped to front of queue?


Not sure what difference it makes if he stays in Ireland when he retires? Whats your opinion on ROG and the other explayers who have moved abroad for coaching jobs?

Pool Permutations:

Pool A
Ireland win all pool games
Japan to beat Scotland

Ireland, Japan qualify

Pool B
New Zealand win all pool games
South Africa to beat Italy

New Zealand, South Africa qualify

Pool C
England win all pool games
Argentina beat France

England, Argentina qualify

Pool D
Australia win all games
Wales beat Fiji

Australia, Wales qualify

Quarter 1
England v Wales

Quarter 2
New Zealand v Japan

Quarter 3
Australia v Argentina

Quarter 4
Ireland v South Africa

Semi 1
England v New Zealand

Semi 2
Australia v Ireland

Final
New Zealand v Ireland

joseywhales

So we only have to beat South Africa, Australia and New Zealand, consecutively then...........

penybont exile

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pool Permutations:

Pool A
Ireland win all pool games
Japan to beat Scotland

Ireland, Japan qualify

Pool B
New Zealand win all pool games
South Africa to beat Italy

New Zealand, South Africa qualify

Pool C
England win all pool games
Argentina beat France

England, Argentina qualify

Pool D
Australia win all games
Wales beat Fiji

Australia, Wales qualify

Quarter 1
England v Wales

Quarter 2
New Zealand v Japan

Quarter 3
Australia v Argentina

Quarter 4
Ireland v South Africa

Semi 1
England v New Zealand

Semi 2
Australia v Ireland

Final
New Zealand v Ireland

...... suggest you head down to your local turf accountant and put some dough on that .........

Don't overdo it though!

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He was the best 10 in World till Christmas.....

Agreed, which is why I asked specifically about 2019.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Hard to tell after as he was restricted with injury.....Also he played a lot of rugby prior to Christmas so it would suggest it was planned by IRFU.

He had a bad game against Wales which of course got the usual crowd going after him.

Not sure what you mean by this. Are you suggesting he should be immune from criticism when he plays poorly?

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Apart from that Toulouse, France, Scotland(before going off), Munster he was excellent

The Scotland game, he played 24 mins. The Munster game he played 25 mins, coming on when the score was 19-9. Toulouse and France, he did play well.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

In Pro14 final took bang early on but in second half ran the team very well before been taken off. Still a 7 out of 10 performance.

All in not too bad....

What do you think?

Personally think it's probably his poorest half season of rugby for 3-4 years, maybe going back to Matt O'Connor. We know his ceiling tho, so hopefully he can get back to that form for the RWC.

(But dismissing someone because they haven't seen one of his game seems silly to me).

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Stander was hugely effective at 6 and I did mention this for a while now.

You also laughed at the notion of Kleyn being selected and suggest Donnacha Ryan would be selected before that happened, but I don't see you bringing that up.

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

Agreed, which is why I asked specifically about 2019.



Not sure what you mean by this. Are you suggesting he should be immune from criticism when he plays poorly?



The Scotland game, he played 24 mins. The Munster game he played 25 mins, coming on when the score was 19-9. Toulouse and France, he did play well.



Personally think it's probably his poorest half season of rugby for 3-4 years, maybe going back to Matt O'Connor. We know his ceiling tho, so hopefully he can get back to that form for the RWC.

(But dismissing someone because they haven't seen one of his game seems silly to me).

He didn't play for Leinster when MOC was coach...He was in Racing.....


I did ask the poster what they thought of his other performances? yet to get a reply......



Quick look at some player ratings in the final and I see 42 got average of 6.2 for Sexton, other websites gave an 8 out of 10. So I think my 7 out of 10 is about right.

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

You also laughed at the notion of Kleyn being selected and suggest Donnacha Ryan would be selected before that happened, but I don't see you bringing that up.

How long ago was that post? What exactly is the point of dragging up posts from months ago?



Check my posts from recently and I have mentioned numerous times I would like Stander at 6 and Conan at 8....

Kleyn is travelling now so best of luck to him

yerrahbah

PinaKolada wrote: »

It's probably been done to death but I've been away and missed the selection and Wales games so haven't seen or heard much of the discussions around it.

But how in gods name is Kleyn in the squad? I'm watching the Wales game here and the only time he's visible is when he's giving away penalties. He offers nothing in the line-out. His work rate isnt anywhere close to the forwards around him. He's been nothing but average since he recently qualified to be capped.

I'm just baffled as to how he's managed to get into the squad ahead of players who've proven their worth in international games when he's like a poor man's Quinn Roux. Tough and does a job but without Rouxs work horse attitude.

Its the weirdest selection I've seen since Michael Bent.

Joe Schmidt selected him

yerrahbah

kingofthekong wrote: »

oh for christ sake - weve been hearing hes a big game player all season to camouflage how average he has been - he could be bloody Michael jordan in the lineouts and I still wouldnt pick him

You cannot pick a player who literally does nothing but take a couple lineouts per game he has one of the lowest tackle/carry numbers i've ever seen on an international backrow and other backrows also do lineouts, carry and tackle you gotta be able to do all three

hes been a passenger for most of the season, having one good game every hundred is not enough to guarantee you spot in the no.1 ranked international team in the world...

Name another country in the top 5 he would start for........none so he shouldnt start for us

Reward the players who got the result last week and lets give some time for Stander, Conan and VDJ to gel together and become a better unit

Is that you Rhys?