Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

The Lost Sheep

RobbieRuns wrote: »

He did not look undercooked v Scotland? You need him fit for that knock out game. Sexton is well used to coming in with little game time. The quarters are the key, beat SA or NZ in a knock out scenario and it is then time to dream. Listen, he might play v Japan and Russia, I hope that he does, but the main focus in managing him is now with the quarters in mind.

And not playing more between now and a quarter isnt going to help. Quarters are key and having your main player having only played so little isnt going to help us.

RobbieRuns

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

And not playing more between now and a quarter isnt going to help. Quarters are key and having your main player having only played so little isnt going to help us.

Of course, you're absolutely right. What was I thinking, carry on playing him.

The Lost Sheep

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Of course, you're absolutely right. What was I thinking, carry on playing him.

So we have him go in without having played in 3 weeks and having played just 120 minutes all season is the right way to go to beating SA or NZ?
Yeah that makes sense.

RobbieRuns

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

So we have him go in without having played in 3 weeks and having played just 120 minutes all season is the right way to go to beating SA or NZ?
Yeah that makes sense.

Yes, and Thank you.

I wouldn't be surprised if Sexton plays off the bench or not at all the next three games.

Jump_In_Jack

Having read the injury updates that O'Mahony and Aki are on track to take full part in training on Tues and Thurs with a confirmation due later today,
And Van der Flier has had stitches above his eye but should be fine,
Sexton had a slight knock to his thigh at 20 minutes and should be fine to train fully,
and that Earls, Kearney and Carbery will train fully this week,
leaving Henshaw the only player definitely ruled out for Japan,
I wouldn't be surprised if almost an identical starting 15 are selected, maybe 3 changes, with a few more changes on the bench.

I would guess the following:
Healy, Best, Furlong, Henderson, Ryan, O'Mahony, Van der Flier, Stander, Murray Sexton, Stockdale, Aki, Farrell, Earls, Kearney.
Bench: Cronin, Kilcoyne, Ryan, Kleyn, Ruddock, McGrath, Carbery, Ringrose.

I get the impression from Schmidt's interviews that he wants to go as near as possible to full strength against Japan to win with a bonus point and guarantee our top spot.
Only changes I'd see are Farrell coming in at centre as he was outstanding, Earls and Kearney returning to their usual positions, and a change up in the bench, particularly giving some time to Carbery.
Hopefully we secure the bonus point by 50 minutes and can spring everyone off the bench.

andymx11

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Having read the injury updates that O'Mahony and Aki are on track to take full part in training on Tues and Thurs with a confirmation due later today,
And Van der Flier has had stitches above his eye but should be fine,
Sexton had a slight knock to his thigh at 20 minutes and should be fine to train fully,
and that Earls, Kearney and Carbery will train fully this week,
leaving Henshaw the only player definitely ruled out for Japan,
I wouldn't be surprised if almost an identical starting 15 are selected, maybe 3 changes, with a few more changes on the bench.

I would guess the following:
Healy, Best, Furlong, Henderson, Ryan, O'Mahony, Van der Flier, Stander, Murray Sexton, Stockdale, Aki, Farrell, Earls, Kearney.
Bench: Cronin, Kilcoyne, Ryan, Kleyn, Ruddock, McGrath, Carbery, Ringrose.

I get the impression from Schmidt's interviews that he wants to go as near as possible to full strength against Japan to win with a bonus point and guarantee our top spot.
Only changes I'd see are Farrell coming in at centre as he was outstanding, Earls and Kearney returning to their usual positions, and a change up in the bench, particularly giving some time to Carbery.
Hopefully we secure the bonus point by 50 minutes and can spring everyone off the bench.

If this is the case I’ll back them at -21 all day every day...

The Rape of Lucretia

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

And go in to our key game of tournament completely cold without game in weeks? No chance.

There is no such thing as cold. Training is all tyese guys need. Playing second and third rate teams serves no purpose, and only risks taking them out of the game against SA.

The Rape of Lucretia

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

going in quite undercooked?.

Rugby players are not cooked. Even metaphorically. They simply need to be healthy and training. Sexton, and the other ones critical to our chances have nothing to learn about international rugby at this stage.

realhorrorshow

Can anyone recommend a vpn that they have been using successfully for rte/itv online please?

bilston

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Having read the injury updates that O'Mahony and Aki are on track to take full part in training on Tues and Thurs with a confirmation due later today,
And Van der Flier has had stitches above his eye but should be fine,
Sexton had a slight knock to his thigh at 20 minutes and should be fine to train fully,
and that Earls, Kearney and Carbery will train fully this week,
leaving Henshaw the only player definitely ruled out for Japan,
I wouldn't be surprised if almost an identical starting 15 are selected, maybe 3 changes, with a few more changes on the bench.

I would guess the following:
Healy, Best, Furlong, Henderson, Ryan, O'Mahony, Van der Flier, Stander, Murray Sexton, Stockdale, Aki, Farrell, Earls, Kearney.
Bench: Cronin, Kilcoyne, Ryan, Kleyn, Ruddock, McGrath, Carbery, Ringrose.

I get the impression from Schmidt's interviews that he wants to go as near as possible to full strength against Japan to win with a bonus point and guarantee our top spot.
Only changes I'd see are Farrell coming in at centre as he was outstanding, Earls and Kearney returning to their usual positions, and a change up in the bench, particularly giving some time to Carbery.
Hopefully we secure the bonus point by 50 minutes and can spring everyone off the bench.

I wouldn't be starting Farrell ahead of Ringrose at 13.

Farrell, for Ireland anyway, has been more effective at 12. I'd quite like to see Farrell and Ringrose start a game together.

The Lost Sheep

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

There is no such thing as cold. Training is all tyese guys need. Playing second and third rate teams serves no purpose, and only risks taking them out of the game against SA.

So not having much game time all season against players who've been playing through the year and are battle hardened in a key game is a good thing?

The Rape of Lucretia

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

So not having much game time all season against players who've been playing through the year and are battle hardened in a key game is a good thing?

Exactly. He is well able to play at this stage. Rest and full fitness are far more useful to him.

EachSmallChime

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Rugby players are not cooked. Even metaphorically. They simply need to be healthy and training. Sexton, and the other ones critical to our chances have nothing to learn about international rugby at this stage.

I'm going to call rubbish on this one. Match fitness is not the same as training and running drills. Why did we bother having pre-season warm up games?

Even against lesser opposition, you are training and practicing against players who do not know your plays and developing sharpness.

Also, training with a 31 man squad with a a load of injuries is almost impossible. I've heard that Andy Farrell, Rhys Ruddock's brother and other staff have been roped into playing opposition during training.

The Lost Sheep

EachSmallChime wrote: »

I'm going to call rubbish on this one. Match fitness is not the same as training and running drills. Why did we bother having pre-season warm up games?

Even against lesser opposition, you are training and practicing against players who do not know your plays and developing sharpness.

Also, training with a 31 man squad with a a load of injuries is almost impossible. I've heard that Andy Farrell, JVF's brother and other staff have been roped into playing opposition during training.

Rhys Ruddocks brother Ciaran who was a pro player himself with Leinster in Academy but didnt progress further and is now a Strength and Conditioning coach and is involved with irish squad. he has been involved in sessions. Dont think its JVF brother.

The Rape of Lucretia

EachSmallChime wrote: »

Why did we bother having pre-season warm up games?

Money.

And they happen with a longer window for players to recover from injuries.

EachSmallChime

Absolutely right about Ciaran Ruddock, fixed the post.

I'm all for squad rotation but not putting players on ice is rubbish. They don't just turn up after a month off and automatically play well.

Dog Botherer

Once we beat Japan we should forfeit our remaining two pool games. Safest possible approach, we’re going to need all 31 players on the field to win that quarter final.

Shefwedfan

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Rugby players are not cooked. Even metaphorically. They simply need to be healthy and training. Sexton, and the other ones critical to our chances have nothing to learn about international rugby at this stage.

Sorry but you are incorrect

First the NH team didn’t have games before and it was a disaster...many moons ago.....

Also in regards to training incorrect as well

Even recently it was discussed on radio with Donnacha O Callaghan and he was amazed the UK premiership team still have contact in training, the Irish team moved away from that years ago as it just bring injuries

So game fitness and training fitness are a good distance apart

EachSmallChime

EachSmallChime wrote: »

I'm going to call rubbish on this one. Match fitness is not the same as training and running drills. Why did we bother having pre-season warm up games?

Even against lesser opposition, you are training and practicing against players who do not know your plays and developing sharpness.

Also, training with a 31 man squad with a a load of injuries is almost impossible. I've heard that Andy Farrell, Rhys Ruddock's brother and other staff have been roped into playing opposition during training.

Farrell isn't the first and won't be the last coach to jump into a training session.

ionadnapokot

bilston wrote: »

I wouldn't be starting Farrell ahead of Ringrose at 13.

Farrell, for Ireland anyway, has been more effective at 12. I'd quite like to see Farrell and Ringrose start a game together.

After Sunday they will surely be the paired together again for Japan? Henshaw no.23

If you're planning on watching the game back look at the amount of treatment Russell get's. Best really set the tone early - 1:40 on the match clock, he flies out of the line to get a big hit on Russell, doesn't get there in time and rightly backs off, but then runs on the wrong side of him to disrupt his defensive shape. Pure silly buggers.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

If you're planning on watching the game back look at the amount of treatment Russell get's. Best really set the tone early - 1:40 on the match clock, he flies out of the line to get a big hit on Russell, doesn't get there in time and rightly backs off, but then runs on the wrong side of him to disrupt his defensive shape. Pure silly buggers.

It's not like Scotland haven't done it before on Murray and Sexton.....

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It's not like Scotland haven't done it before on Murray and Sexton.....

Nothing illegal in any of it - just persistent pressure and attention. Let him know he was being man marked by half the team. Put him completely off his game.

I thought Larmour had a pretty decent outing but on re-watch he was consistently excellent. I reckon Kearney is playing some of the best rugby of his career the last 2-3 years, not as explosive as he was but a huge safety net at the back of the team and still fast enough to beat George North to the ball.

If he wasn't at his best I think he'd lose the jersey. That's a hugely experienced Scotland team and Larmour looked more composed than the majority of them, really backed himself at key moments but also worked very hard to support everything else going on around him and is tidy enough at the breakdown.

Had he not tripped over his own feet I think he might have scored an absolute stunner early on. Conway, Stockdale, Larmour is the likely Irish back three from after this World cup onwards but they are making more of an immediate question of it with performances like this.

ionadnapokot

Deleted User wrote: »

If you're planning on watching the game back look at the amount of treatment Russell get's. Best really set the tone early - 1:40 on the match clock, he flies out of the line to get a big hit on Russell, doesn't get there in time and rightly backs off, but then runs on the wrong side of him to disrupt his defensive shape. Pure silly buggers.

Best really silenced the doubters with that performance. i include myself amongst them.

My main concern was the lineout. I recall the miscommunication in the throw to Porter. Another one definitely was crooked. Was there an overthrow as well?
LO worked a treat for his try anyway!
https://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-forwards-world-cup-4820019-Sep2019/

It appears that the refs are allowing allot of crooked throws. Prob to avoid scrums.
Mauls are back. Big Time

ionadnapokot

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Best really silenced the doubters with that performance. i include myself amongst them.

There was a bit of manic aggression about him alright. It's the last tournament of his life, he's going to leave it all out on the pitch.

Dog Botherer

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Best really silenced the doubters with that performance. i include myself amongst them.

My main concern was the lineout. I recall the miscommunication in the throw to Porter. Another one definitely was crooked. Was there an overthrow as well?
LO worked a treat for his try anyway!
https://www.the42.ie/analysis-ireland-forwards-world-cup-4820019-Sep2019/

It appears that the refs are allowing allot of crooked throws. Prob to avoid scrums.
Mauls are back. Big Time

What with the refs allowing the hooker to take a step to align himself with his jumpers, there’s been barely a straight throw in professional rugby in half a decade. It’s as much a joke as the scrum put in.

P.Walnuts

So eh...nobody talking about CJ's best two games in recent memory have been at 6?

Conan was very good Sunday too.

I mean.....it makes sense right?

Ardillaun

Great performance against Scotland but a few times we looked a little sparse out wide in defence and I just wonder what a better team might have made of those opportunities. The lineout wasn't stringently examined either. Of the many pluses, Murray showed some of his old flair. I hope he’s on an upward swing now and we can glue Sexton back together again for the big matches ahead.

P.Walnuts

P.Walnuts wrote: »

So eh...nobody talking about CJ's best two games in recent memory have been at 6?

Conan was very good Sunday too.

I mean.....it makes sense right?

There's not a chance POM will be dropped imo.

Kailyn Jolly Mascot

Kailyn Jolly Mascot wrote: »

There's not a chance POM will be dropped imo.

I tend to agree but I hope he's not undropable. People were going on about Murray and sexton loss of form but POM was just as bad and he hasn't shown a significant return to form although he did do well in the first 20 minutes of Scotland. He really needs a big game before the quarters.

Clegg

Aki and PoM passed HIA 3 and are cleared to take part in full training. Everyone is now fit and training bar Henshaw.

https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1176392589034917888?s=19

Bogwoppit

The lineout did function better obviously but the majority of the throws were to the first jumper. This gives a pretty poor attacking platform for the backs.
From my memory there were 4 longer throws, 2 of which went to ground.
Throwing to number one jumper might ensure you get the ball back but it’s crap ball, lineout issues not sorted yet unfortunately.

Squidgy Black

Bogwoppit wrote: »

The lineout did function better obviously but the majority of the throws were to the first jumper. This gives a pretty poor attacking platform for the backs.
From my memory there were 4 longer throws, 2 of which went to ground.
Throwing to number one jumper might ensure you get the ball back but it’s crap ball, lineout issues not sorted yet unfortunately.

Jerry Flannery spoke about this, Scotland were offering Ireland 1 every time and lining up at 3 and 5 as if they were going to compete, so that they'd be able to keep Ireland narrow and near touch.

They knew it was more or less guaranteed ball, you'd be mad not to take it.

FrancieBrady

Sexton struggling with a quad injury.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/johnny-sexton-a-doubt-for-ireland-s-japan-clash-due-to-quad-injury-1.4028601?fbclid=IwAR1mL1rW04hKfN6oqfqNTQgxIG7LMlVt3oyyK5Ibmpw0EOWWLt4YUGWknIU

Former Former

Clegg wrote: »

Aki and PoM passed HIA 3 and are cleared to take part in full training. Everyone is now fit and training bar Henshaw.

So the game was on Sunday. Each stage takes 24 hours to complete.

So they pass Stage 1 Monday. They would pass stage 2 on Tuesday which is today.

How have they passed stage 3 already? Am I missing something?

pc7

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sexton struggling with a quad injury.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/johnny-sexton-a-doubt-for-ireland-s-japan-clash-due-to-quad-injury-1.4028601?fbclid=IwAR1mL1rW04hKfN6oqfqNTQgxIG7LMlVt3oyyK5Ibmpw0EOWWLt4YUGWknIU

Just seen it, poor fecker, may not get to play a RWC QF yet, gutted, really bad news.

Hoppy Jack

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sexton struggling with a quad injury.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/johnny-sexton-a-doubt-for-ireland-s-japan-clash-due-to-quad-injury-1.4028601?fbclid=IwAR1mL1rW04hKfN6oqfqNTQgxIG7LMlVt3oyyK5Ibmpw0EOWWLt4YUGWknIU

He shouldn’t play til Samoa. Maybe 50 mins against them.

Jump_In_Jack

Former Former wrote: »

So the game was on Sunday. Each stage takes 24 hours to complete.

So they pass Stage 1 Monday. They would pass stage 2 on Tuesday which is today.

How have they passed stage 3 already? Am I missing something?

As far as I've gathered, the HIA 1 is carried out during the match. THe HIA 2 is carried out a few hours after the match, and the HIA 3 is carried out something like 48 hours after the match.
They have passed HIA 2 and HIA 3 so they don't have to follow a RTPP which would be a minimum of 6 days of monitoring and gradual reintroduction to training, which would pretty much have ruled them out for Japan.

sydthebeat

pc7 wrote: »

Just seen it, poor fecker, may not get to play a RWC QF yet, gutted, really bad news.

Nothing at all as doom merchant as this....

he got a belt on the thigh, and yet was still able to play on for another half hour afterwards.

so its not an injury which will keep him out of any game really....

“He’s being monitored. We expect him to train fully on Thursday. That wouldn’t be unusual for him not to train two days after a Test match.

prawnsambo

Former Former wrote: »

So the game was on Sunday. Each stage takes 24 hours to complete.

So they pass Stage 1 Monday. They would pass stage 2 on Tuesday which is today.

How have they passed stage 3 already? Am I missing something?

This is from the WR protocol on head injuries:

Stage 1 – game day assessment using the HIA Form 1
Stage 2 – post-game, same day assessment using HIA Form 2
Stage 3 – 36-48 hour post-injury assessment using HIA Form 3

Clareman

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

As far as I've gathered, the HIA 1 is carried out during the match. THe HIA 2 is carried out a few hours after the match, and the HIA 3 is carried out something like 48 hours after the match.
They have passed HIA 2 and HIA 3 so they don't have to follow a RTPP which would be a minimum of 6 days of monitoring and gradual reintroduction to training, which would pretty much have ruled them out for Japan.

That's the way I read it as well, fail HIA 1 during the game and you can't come back on, then you have 2 follow up checks, fail either of those and you're put on return to play protocols, pass both of them and you are clear to play but you can't return until after the 3rd test so really you're given 48 hours recovery time.

molloyjh

Former Former wrote: »

Clegg wrote: »

Aki and PoM passed HIA 3 and are cleared to take part in full training. Everyone is now fit and training bar Henshaw.

So the game was on Sunday. Each stage takes 24 hours to complete.

So they pass Stage 1 Monday. They would pass stage 2 on Tuesday which is today.

How have they passed stage 3 already? Am I missing something?

Isn't HIA 1 the one done on the day? So HIA 2 was yesterday and HIA 3 today?

molloyjh

I wouldnt be playing Sexton this weekend anyway. Carty has proven hes good enough. Start him and bench Joey. Then start Joey vs Russia and bench Carty. Then play Sexton vs Samoa and bench Joey. All 3 out halves get decent game time that way and are managed to suit their own injury profiles.

Former Former

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

As far as I've gathered, the HIA 1 is carried out during the match. THe HIA 2 is carried out a few hours after the match, and the HIA 3 is carried out something like 48 hours after the match.
They have passed HIA 2 and HIA 3 so they don't have to follow a RTPP which would be a minimum of 6 days of monitoring and gradual reintroduction to training, which would pretty much have ruled them out for Japan.

Fair enough so. Didn't realise that was the system now.

Clareman

sydthebeat wrote: »

Nothing at all as doom merchant as this....

he got a belt on the thigh, and yet was still able to play on for another half hour afterwards.

so its not an injury which will keep him out of any game really....

Yeah, he got a bang above the knee, considering our and Scotland's line speed it's not surprising the 10 got a bang, and now they are just monitoring him, they took the kicking off him because they have a decent kicker on the pitch anyway (2 misses weren't great though) so might as well take the pressure off him, if he was in big trouble he would have been taken off or the re-starts taken off him.

BTW, starting him against such a physical team as Samoa would be lunacy in my opinion, maybe bench him this weekend to bring him on with 20 minutes to go, start him against Russia if he's ok and then sit him out against Samoa. Come the Samoa game we could be guaranteed top spot regardless of result so that'll be the 1 to rest players in my opinion.

Eod100

Hoppy Jack wrote: »

He shouldn’t play til Samoa. Maybe 50 mins against them.

Obviously a balance between resting and playing but if not ready for Japan I wouldn't risk him for Russia. Could nearly have him on bench v Samoa

pc7

sydthebeat wrote: »

Nothing at all as doom merchant as this....

.

Ah in fairness its one injury after another lately for him, I am worried he won't hold up, its not doom and gloom its pure worry for him (and the us!). We need him fit especially that Joey is only coming off an injury too. They haven't been fully clear with injuries either so we can't 100% believe them (and rightly so, why give teams a heads up)

Clareman

Found this paper on HIA in case anyone is on a boring conference call like me and wants something to read
https://www.sareferees.com/uploads/files/Eugene%202017/180326%20HIA%20Protocol%20and%20Procedures.pdf