Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

Amprodude

troyzer wrote: »

The way Wales would never go out and beat England in the second half?

Seriously though, I'm inclined to agree with you.

The most likely scenario for me is that we rock up in Cardiff at best hoping to be a spoiler.

I be happy if we deny Wales a Grand Slam. If that's all we do it be sweet. At the end of the day they are only marginally more likeable than the English and I always remember 2009 when they did their damn best to deny us in the media and in the game itself a Grand Slam. Wales and Scotland for that matter are no angles and deserve a tanking when the opportunities arise.

Shefwedfan

Amprodude wrote: »

I be happy if we deny Wales a Grand Slam. If that's all we do it be sweet. At the end of the day they are only marginally more likeable than the English and I always remember 2009 when they did their damn best to deny us in the media and in the game itself a Grand Slam. Wales and Scotland for that matter are no angles and deserve a tanking when the opportunities arise.

Beating Wales and denying them a Grand Slam will also increase ireland winnings.....more money is always good

Exclamation Marc

England play Scotland after the Wales v Ireland game so there could be a lot more impetus on both the Scottish side to deny England and on the English side to clinch the title if Ireland somehow beat Wales given they'll know exactly what to do.

Could be a cracking final day.

Jump_In_Jack

PTH2009 wrote: »

3 BP wins in the rest of our games might still not be enough too win the title.

Think we will end up on 19pts in that case,

England with 2BP wins against Scotland/Italy will leave then on 20pts.

Wales could end on 21pts and a grand slam

Wales could end on 22pts and a grand slam

KBurke85

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

PTH2009 wrote: »

3 BP wins in the rest of our games might still not be enough too win the title.

Think we will end up on 19pts in that case,

England with 2BP wins against Scotland/Italy will leave then on 20pts.

Wales could end on 21pts and a grand slam

Wales could end on 22pts and a grand slam

Wales would then finish on 27. There’s 5 points for winning the grand slam

jm08

sydthebeat wrote: »

Too much been made about line out calling. James Ryan has already started calling.... So it will be a moot point in the not so distant future

Donnacha Ryan disagrees with you.

https://www.herald.ie/sport/rugby/donnacha-still-feels-part-of-irelands-lineout-legacy-37762155.html

Clegg

Lads I've no idea how Wales do it. All their their provincial sides are manure, but Gatland brings them together to perform to more than the sum of their parts. He's the ultimate pragmatist. He'll have them curl up and defend when necessary and only play expansively when the exact circumstances dictate.

This may not be a popular opinion but I think AWJ will go down as the greatest lock of his generation. Even better than PoC. His ability to dust himself off and come back for more physical abuse defies belief.

It'll take Ireland at the very top of their game to beat Wales. We need Ringrose to regain fitness quickly as well as Hendo and Beirne.

Synode

KBurke85 wrote: »

Wales would then finish on 27. There’s 5 points for winning the grand slam

Think it's 3 points for a GS

Dubinusa

Wales surprised me. England returned to the penalty machine of yesterday.
Ireland would have to play out of their skin to beat Wales, imo.
Mainly cos we're undercooked and underachieving and key players are suddenly dire!

Shefwedfan

Clegg wrote: »

Lads I've no idea how Wales do it. All their their provincial sides are manure

Scarlets won the Pro14 and got to final last year. Also a semi in heneiken cup

Small transition this year which is not helped with best players going and coach going but still a very good side

Hardly manure

Clegg

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Clegg wrote: »

Lads I've no idea how Wales do it. All their their provincial sides are manure

Scarlets won the Pro14 and got to final last year. Also a semi in heneiken cup

Small transition this year which is not helped with best players going and coach going but still a very good side

Hardly manure

And this season their provincial sides are 15, 18, 32 and 49 points off their respective Pro 14 pool leaders. All four sides have been eliminated from European competition too. Scarlets, the standard bearers in recent seasons are the side that it 32 points behind Leinster this year.

They're all performing so poorly, but Gatland has brought them together and made them so much better.

bilston

I think their regions are poorly coached. The Scarlets are the exception to that, but they've struggled a bit this year, and that's down to departures and injuries but Pivac and Jones haven't become bad coaches overnight.

I still think we've every chance of winning in Cardiff, but Welsh teams with 6Ns momentum are like a freight train. Fair play to Garland if he bows out of 6Ns rugby with a 3rd (?) GS.

Jump_In_Jack

Synode wrote: »

Think it's 3 points for a GS

Yes it is.
Wales could pick up a maximum of 10 points in their next two matches plus the grand slam bonus so they could reach a max total of 22 + 3 = 25.

stephen_n

Clegg wrote: »

Lads I've no idea how Wales do it. All their their provincial sides are manure, but Gatland brings them together to perform to more than the sum of their parts. He's the ultimate pragmatist. He'll have them curl up and defend when necessary and only play expansively when the exact circumstances dictate.

This may not be a popular opinion but I think AWJ will go down as the greatest lock of his generation. Even better than PoC. His ability to dust himself off and come back for more physical abuse defies belief.

It'll take Ireland at the very top of their game to beat Wales. We need Ringrose to regain fitness quickly as well as Hendo and Beirne.

Thought AWJ was man of the match yesterday by a long, long way, he was amazing in everything he did.


Team still has some bang average players though, Hadley Parkes is not even close to test quality. Tom curry bossed the breakdown too yesterday and made Tuperic look very ordinary.

Going to be a cracking match in Cardiff that’s for sure.

KBurke85

Synode wrote: »

KBurke85 wrote: »

Wales would then finish on 27. There’s 5 points for winning the grand slam

Think it's 3 points for a GS

Ya you re right. My mistake

Provided we account for Italy and France - we need to treat that Wales game as a World Cup final even if we are playing for the option of second over third place. I imagine England will pick up 5 against a deteriorating Scotland so it's a good opportunity for us to put down one last, big marker before September.

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Provided we account for Italy and France - we need to treat that Wales game as a World Cup final even if we are playing for the option of second over third place. I imagine England will pick up 5 against a deteriorating Scotland so it's a good opportunity for us to put down one last, big marker before September.

Scotland with it's best team out would collapse in Twickenham anyway.....

Amprodude

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Scotland with it's best team out would collapse in Twickenham anyway.....

You are correct they are complete bottlers.

Buer

The knock on impact from yesterday's two results means that there will be absolutely no more deviation from the strongest available line up.

baas baa

It's shaping up to be an unusual final day scenario for Ireland, spoiling the Welsh party in Cardiff is enticing, given we've swallowed some tough defeats against them in the past few years; but the idea of England winning the tournament will keep me from shouting too loudly.

Shefwedfan

baas baa wrote: »

It's shaping up to be an unusual final day scenario for Ireland, spoiling the Welsh party in Cardiff is enticing, given we've swallowed some tough defeats against them in the past few years; but the idea of England winning the tournament will keep me from shouting too loudly.

Stop a Welsh Grand Slam and Ireland make a few extra quid....if Ireland can't win the 6 nation I dont care if Wales or England win it, we should try an dfinish as high with as many points as possibe....ending up losing just 1 game would be a nice finish

razorblunt

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Stop a Welsh Grand Slam and Ireland make a few extra quid....if Ireland can't win the 6 nation I dont care if Wales or England win it, we should try an dfinish as high with as many points as possibe....ending up losing just 1 game would be a nice finish

Exactly, win your own games. If Wales are still on for the slam then Ireland can treat is as a high pressure game ahead of the WC too.

bilston

Think I'll ignore the match thread, I'm sure many will have their scapegoats singled out already.

My main concern today was the complacency. It was summed up by us taking a quick tap under their posts while trailing by 4 points. Yes I know we scored off it in the end, but that showed a total lack of respect to the opposition. If you don't respect your opponents, you lose focus and you make mistakes, and that is exactly what happened today.

Burkie1203

Team v France.

Hard to know what to think it will be but hope Henshaw and Ringrose are back.

Think we need to look at Cooney or Marmion at 9.

Hopefully Stander is back.

Ryan and Henderson in the 2nd row.

troyzer

Lads, I'm seriously considering selling my semi final tickets for the world cup. €800 is too much money to gamble on them getting there.

thomond2006

troyzer wrote: »

Lads, I'm seriously considering selling my semi final tickets for the world cup. €800 is too much money to gamble on them getting there.

Chill. Out.

irishbucsfan

troyzer wrote: »

Lads, I'm seriously considering selling my semi final tickets for the world cup. €800 is too much money to gamble on them getting there.

:pac:

troyzer

I'll probably keep them after I calm down.

But I can't see them beating the Springboks without a significant improvement.

Squidgy Black

I'll give you a fiver for them and your flights and accommodation, think about it you'll be wasting so much money anyways.

You know it's right.

bilston

bilston wrote: »

Think I'll ignore the match thread, I'm sure many will have their scapegoats singled out already.

I blame it all on Bliston

troyzer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I'll give you a fiver for them and your flights and accommodation, think about it you'll be wasting so much money anyways.

You know it's right.

Put it this way:

This is the most expensive holiday I've ever planned. In the beginning, it was going to be a world cup tour with a few day trips in between.

Without doing it intentionally, I've found myself spending more time planning the day trips and looking forward to that stuff. It's now a holiday to Japan with a few rugby matches.

clsmooth

Decent result with only 3/8 of our first choice pack. Losing Aki so early was also a blow for backline leaving us with a pretty weak centre pairing at this level.. The big worry was the amount of handling errors and lack of accuracy. I thought Murray was poor again try aside. Cooney had a good cameo and I’d be happy to see him start vs France. Think he can bring a bit more zip to our game.

Clegg

Lots of concerns about systems and individual players. Cronin got a lot of flak for his throwing, but when Scannell came on we still lost 2 or 3 lineouts. The Italians read us like a book.

Murray and Sexton aren't playing well. For me Sexton looks off colour rather than being actively bad. Certain aspects of his game are still functioning at a high level. Line kicking, and after a few attempts, his restarts. Looks more tentative bringing it to the line after the Scotland game. He was excellent in that 20 minute spell but got his block rocked.

Murray is a much bigger concern. He's taking the wrong options and looks so slow at the ruck. I'd consider dropping him. Constant game time has done nothing for his form.

SoB doesn't look the player he was a few years ago. He's always been one for giving away a clanger of a pen, but his workrate and brilliance around the pitch always more than made to for it. But he's looked so slow this tournament. Isn't covering the pitch and not getting over the gain line like he used to.

Thought Farrell played well today, but Ringrose is desperately needed at 13. He's a genuine midfield playmaker and can take a lot of the pressure off Sexton as well as being a dangerous running threat in his own right. Our phase play attack is woeful at the moment. Our pack can't get over the gain line and our backs don't have the ability to break the line other than through set plays. A creative, distributing midfielder can help with that problem.

Podge_irl

bilston wrote: »

Think I'll ignore the match thread, I'm sure many will have their scapegoats singled out already.

My main concern today was the complacency. It was summed up by us taking a quick tap under their posts while trailing by 4 points. Yes I know we scored off it in the end, but that showed a total lack of respect to the opposition. If you don't respect your opponents, you lose focus and you make mistakes, and that is exactly what happened today.

Taking the quick tap wasn't so much the issue - Ireland have done it many times where it worked out well because they identified that there was something to exploit. Taking a **** quick tap was more the problem.

bilston

Deleted User wrote: »

I blame it all on Bliston

So does my wife

realhorrorshow

Don't know if malaise is too strong a word, but the teams body language and energy/performance levels are quite worrying. What has changed between November and now? The provinces were flying during those months and most of the squad have been playing well.

thebaz

Clegg wrote: »

Murray is a much bigger concern. He's taking the wrong options and looks so slow at the ruck. I'd consider dropping him. Constant game time has done nothing for his form.

Why was Joe so slow to bring on Cooney ?? thought he did well in another short cameo - I would actually have dropped Murray for this game.

The back row and midfield were a serious concern - how Ringrose is missed - I like Jordi, but he was awful, POM and SOB both lacked big games as well, van der Flier should have stated too, to give some urgency .
Furlong is another who looks way below his best, fealt for Cronin , thought he would take his chance , Best is still best no. 2. Roux was anonymous mostly, Beirne would have given more urgency, and if people mention lineout calers, the lineout today was a disaster with that lineout caller.

joseywhales

Maybe it's a case of training too hard? Looks like a team that's trying too hard. Stockdale is a breath of fresh air. Also we are being bailed out by a perfectly executed set play at least once per game.

errlloyd

Great time to have this problem tbh.

Is there a lack of credit going to Italy here? They held Wales to a similar scoreline and fewer tries. They were pretty crap away to Scotland but they still managed to do all right at the end. Sending a team that was first string in 7 positions to Rome and then playing with a real lack of patience let Italy into the game.

They were really up for this game and I thought Tebaldi played really really well. Posters on here constantly talk about the Italians being some decent halfbacks away from being a decent team, and he was excellent today. Well they had a decent halfback and it made them a decent team. They were able to get over the gainline, get quick ball. Move it well. Their outhalf had more options that Gareth Anscombe had for large parts of yesterdays game.

At that, we were still a few unforced errors away from absolutely smashing them.

I remember how pissed off Conor O Shea was after "that" England game when almost no one gave the Italian team credit and focussed on England's malfunctions. He'd be the same if he was reading this thread.

Clegg

Our reluctance to sub Murray is a strange one when you consider we beat New Zealand without him.

Maybe Schmidt feels like we're underperforming as a collective to such an extent that he needs leaders on the field. But Murray's quite possibly our worst performing player right now.

Wegians89

Clegg wrote: »

Our reluctance to sub Murray is a strange one when you consider we beat New Zealand without him.

Maybe Schmidt feels like we're underperforming as a collective to such an extent that he needs leaders on the field. But Murray's quite possibly our worst performing player right now.

Cooney hasn’t done enough to earn Schmidt’s trust. Happens with all half backs through out Schmidt’s reign. A weird situation where you can only really gain trust if there’s injures and you do well.

awec

Clegg wrote: »

Our reluctance to sub Murray is a strange one when you consider we beat New Zealand without him.

Maybe Schmidt feels like we're underperforming as a collective to such an extent that he needs leaders on the field. But Murray's quite possibly our worst performing player right now.

It is not just Murray. The reluctance to sub Sexton is no different.

Schmidt doesn't trust his backup half backs. There can be no doubt at this stage.

joseywhales

I was hoping for luke McGrath to push through, that was a seriously bad time to get injured.

clsmooth

awec wrote: »

It is not just Murray. The reluctance to sub Sexton is no different.

Schmidt doesn't trust his backup half backs. There can be no doubt at this stage.

I can understand it when they’re playing well but when they’re off the boil/half injured like today, I don’t get it

kingofthekong

Pack is getting outmuscled by opposition consistently , cant make gainline everything else becomes more difficult

is_that_so

awec wrote: »

It is not just Murray. The reluctance to sub Sexton is no different.

Schmidt doesn't trust his backup half backs. There can be no doubt at this stage.

At scrumhalf there are options, at number 10 not really when you compare to even a 70% functioning Sexton. Carbery will come good and maybe Byrne from Leinster but not just yet.

awec

clsmooth wrote: »

I can understand it when they’re playing well but when they’re off the boil/half injured like today, I don’t get it

Well it seems straightforward.

He thinks Murray and Sexton playing like drains are still more likely to do what he wants than any of the alternatives.

I don't agree with it, and I think it's going to cost us again, but it's hard to see anything else at this stage. He just does not trust his backups.

Former Former

awec wrote: »

Well it seems straightforward.

He thinks Murray and Sexton playing like drains are still more likely to do what he wants than any of the alternatives.

I don't agree with it, and I think it's going to cost us again, but it's hard to see anything else at this stage. He just does not trust his backups.

Pretty much. You could argue that Cooney and Carty are not the backups but I doubt we would have seen Marmion, McGrath or Carbery much earlier.

thebaz

awec wrote: »

It is not just Murray. The reluctance to sub Sexton is no different.

Schmidt doesn't trust his backup half backs. There can be no doubt at this stage.

I've only seen these cameo bits of Cooney (even at Leinster) and he looks good, and from i hear is doing it at Ulster - do you think he is good eneogh to push on internationally ?

razorblunt

kingofthekong wrote: »

Pack is getting outmuscled by opposition consistently , cant make gainline everything else becomes more difficult

They're just one dimensional right now, there's no subtlety. Teams can front up, blitz hard (offside), slow the ruck with one man, making Ireland commit 2 or 3 more than them just to secure their ball.
This then leads to Sexton running the ball and sending centers straight into brick walls as the defence have plenty of numbers. Too many of Ireland's ball carriers take the ball standing stall on crash ball too, look at all the huffing and puffing before Earl's try where he came at speed and on an angle.


Every game can't be an arm wrestle it's too attritional.