Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

AbusesToilets

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Wonder who'd go as backup 12 to Aki if Henshaw was injured at the time. McCloskey? Chris Farrell out of position? Maybe Tom Farrell? O'Loughlin might be an outside bet, depending on how many high-level games he gets at 12.

Madigan, obviously

Erik Shun

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Madigan, obviously

JJ Hanrahan is the only choice, can play 10 too I hear

Clegg

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Well as it stands (unless henshaw at 15 is still considered. Lets not go into it) one of the main 4 (Henshaw, Chris F, Aki and Ringrose) will probably be left out. There's enough flexibility in that group to cover both positions so an injury means the 4th guy gets called up.

After that i'd think Tom F, Rory Scannell and Will Addison are next in line.

Will Addison is out for the rest of the season with a back injury. Seeing as he's missed two months with it who knows when he'll actually return.

AbusesToilets

Erik Shun wrote: »

JJ Hanrahan is the only choice, can play 10 too I hear

But can he cover scrumhalf?

Richie_Rich89

leakyboots wrote: »

Ringrose to 12 and Farrell to 13? Or vice versa. Tom Farrell or maybe Rory Scannell could be in with a shout of backup too

Scannell's a bit on the slow side, but it'd be interesting to see how he'd get on in a set-up with better backs coaching. When he played fullback, Ireland always made better use of Zebo's playmaking ability than Munster did.

jacothelad

AbusesToilets wrote: »

But can he cover scrumhalf?

He'd probably be as good there as he is elsewhere....;)

AbusesToilets

jacothelad wrote: »

He'd probably be as good there as he is elsewhere....;)

savage

Christy42

Clegg wrote: »

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Well as it stands (unless henshaw at 15 is still considered. Lets not go into it) one of the main 4 (Henshaw, Chris F, Aki and Ringrose) will probably be left out. There's enough flexibility in that group to cover both positions so an injury means the 4th guy gets called up.

After that i'd think Tom F, Rory Scannell and Will Addison are next in line.

Will Addison is out for the rest of the season with a back injury. Seeing as he's missed two months with it who knows when he'll actually return.

I feel like as we have added more depth we just get more injuries in world cup years.

Shefwedfan

jacothelad wrote: »

He'd probably be as good there as he is elsewhere....;)

Get's paid £500k per year so I doubt he cares what anyone in Ireland thinks :P:P

Mr Tickle

Christy42 wrote: »

I feel like as we have added more depth we just get more injuries in world cup years.

is it just that we have more players worth caring about? :pac:

(in terms of availability. not on anything resembling a human level)

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Get's paid £500k per year so I doubt he cares what anyone in Ireland thinks :P:P

Where are you getting that figure from??

EDIT: Think I see what happened. Your referring to Madigan? OP was referring to JJ.

Erik Shun

aloooof wrote: »

Where are you getting that figure from??

EDIT: Think I see what happened. Your referring to Madigan? OP was referring to JJ.

Some people look for offence anywhere

aloooof

Erik Shun wrote: »

Some people look for offence anywhere

Or, y'know, facts.

arsebiscuits1

aloooof wrote: »

Or, y'know, facts.

Those never get in the way of people's agendas around here :pac:

aloooof

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Those never get in the way of people's agendas around here :pac:

Except I'd happy correct anyone who suggests JJ Hanrahan is getting paid 500k a year. You can stick to your agenda's and I'll stick to the facts.

Shefwedfan

No agenda guys....Madigan got mentioned and I took it comment was in regards to him

AS I said he is happy with the money in his pocket

jacothelad

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Get's paid £500k per year so I doubt he cares what anyone in Ireland thinks :P:P

Munster pay JJH £500,000 per year? WOW....:D

Peregrine

Joe Schmidt is set to recieve an honorary doctorate from DCU at the end of the month.

Exclamation Marc

Unsurprising but finally confirmed.

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1118799692580757504?s=19

Clegg

Tadgh Beirne is running out of games to show that he should be selected for the World Cup squad. At the moment he looks too light weight for the second row. Ryan, Toner and Henderson are nailed on, and I imagine one of Dillane, Roux or Beirne will go as well. Right now I'd go with Dillane for his impact off the bench.

Buer

Clegg wrote: »

Tadgh Beirne is running out of games to show that he should be selected for the World Cup squad. At the moment he looks too light weight for the second row. Ryan, Toner and Henderson are nailed on, and I imagine one of Dillane, Roux or Beirne will go as well. Right now I'd go with Dillane for his impact off the bench.

He got the nod for the bench twice in Australia and, when fully fit, got named to start in a huge crunch match in Wales. I'd say he's still the 4th man. He's not nailed on but definitely his jersey to lose after the Welsh selection. I wouldn't imagine there's much in it though.

Shefwedfan

Clegg wrote: »

Tadgh Beirne is running out of games to show that he should be selected for the World Cup squad. At the moment he looks too light weight for the second row. Ryan, Toner and Henderson are nailed on, and I imagine one of Dillane, Roux or Beirne will go as well. Right now I'd go with Dillane for his impact off the bench.

Beirne could travel because he can play multiple positions and could do a job against the poorer teams

Hopefully it might stop certain people in press/radio etc going on and on and on about selecting him for every match

PhlegmyMoses

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Beirne could travel because he can play multiple positions and could do a job against the poorer teams

Hopefully it might stop certain people in press/radio etc going on and on and on about selecting him for every match

I never really understand the massive clamour for any player to be selected for a team like Ireland. In most positions you have a number of excellent players who play well more often than not. One player is not going to change a whole lot. Same goes for the Zebo stuff. The team is not suddenly transformed into the All Blacks because this one guy gets picked.

Faugheen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Beirne could travel because he can play multiple positions and could do a job against the poorer teams

Hopefully it might stop certain people in press/radio etc going on and on and on about selecting him for every match

You could argue that Henderson fills the extra back row slot as well though.

stephen_n

Buer wrote: »

He got the nod for the bench twice in Australia and, when fully fit, got named to start in a huge crunch match in Wales. I'd say he's still the 4th man. He's not nailed on but definitely his jersey to lose after the Welsh selection. I wouldn't imagine there's much in it though.

I would beg to differ that the Wales match was huge or crunch for Ireland. Which was born out in how we played that day. Before the 6N I’d say he was in a good place, but Dillane may have done enough to overtake him. I don’t think Beirne has the physicality to be a test level lock.

troyzer

Squidge rugby's latest video is on Ireland:

https://youtu.be/Lu_TblIFRiQ

I don't know how to feel about that, he's echoing a lot of the Irish media. We're all hoping for two things:

1) Players find form
2) Joe Schmidt is an evil genius who deliberately held everything back in a world cup year, allowing teams to deconstruct the old plan so he could do a bait and switch in October.

I think players will find form but changes need to be made as well *coughstandercough*.

Schmidt naturally would have held bits and pieces back but the way he reacted after Cardiff suggested to me that he was completely rattled. So I'm not expecting a brand new plan by the world cup, certainly not one which is already silky smooth from a year of behind closed doors refinement.

Richie_Rich89

I'd be happy just to get out of the group. Scotland have more World Cup pedigree than the Irish. And Japan are well coached and at home.

AbusesToilets

troyzer wrote: »

Squidge rugby's latest video is on Ireland:

https://youtu.be/Lu_TblIFRiQ

I don't know how to feel about that, he's echoing a lot of the Irish media. We're all hoping for two things:

1) Players find form
2) Joe Schmidt is an evil genius who deliberately held everything back in a world cup year, allowing teams to deconstruct the old plan so he could do a bait and switch in October.

I think players will find form but changes need to be made as well *coughstandercough*.

Schmidt naturally would have held bits and pieces back but the way he reacted after Cardiff suggested to me that he was completely rattled. So I'm not expecting a brand new plan by the world cup, certainly not one which is already silky smooth from a year of behind closed doors refinement.

I hope he'll take stock of how well the Leinster contingent play, and look to adapt the game plan accordingly. It's not light years from what they do currently, but there's a much more creative feel to their attacking shape that's lacking in the national team.

AbusesToilets

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I hope he'll take stock of how well the Leinster contingent play, and look to adapt the game plan accordingly. It's not light years from what they do currently, but there's a much more creative feel to their attacking shape that's difficult to replicate at international level.

Mild fyp

Buer

Test rugby is well above the standard we saw yesterday. Great performance but there's a reason the same players were far more hurried and error prone in the 6N.

It's a great barometer for form and indicator of who should be involved in the national side but I don't think Schmidt will be thinking he saw exactly where it all went wrong when he watched yesterday's game.

Shefwedfan

Based on yesterday and this season I cannot see how Conan is not the starting 8 for Ireland, he is an incredible player in incredible form....he has to start

I said already move Stander to 6 and let POM/sob fight it out for the 7 jersey

It’s a pity Ruddock didn’t get on pitch as I don’t think at the moment he travels

AbusesToilets

Buer wrote: »

Test rugby is well above the standard we saw yesterday. Great performance but there's a reason the same players were far more hurried and error prone in the 6N.

It's a great barometer for form and indicator of who should be involved in the national side but I don't think Schmidt will be thinking he saw exactly where it all went wrong when he watched yesterday's game.

The standard can be higher certainly, but the methods that tend to bring success don't change. An ability to play with the ball in hand, be alive to attacking opportunities and have the requisite skills to execute. It's what NZ do consistently.

Vinnie222

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Based on yesterday and this season I cannot see how Conan is not the starting 8 for Ireland, he is an incredible player in incredible form....he has to start

I said already move Stander to 6 and let POM/sob fight it out for the 7 jersey

It’s a pity Ruddock didn’t get on pitch as I don’t think at the moment he travels

Big difference on the quality of oppositions . Conan imo had enough chances to prove himself to get ahead of Stander and didnt take any . Cant see that changing anytime soon

AbusesToilets

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Big difference on the quality of oppositions . Conan imo had enough chances to prove himself to get ahead of Stander and didnt take any . Cant see that changing anytime soon

As opposed to what? Stander running into walls for however long he's on the pitch? Conan has been a better 8 then anyone else in the country for some time.

Vinnie222

AbusesToilets wrote: »

As opposed to what? Stander running into walls for however long he's on the pitch? Conan has been a better 8 then anyone else in the country for some time.

Lucky for Stander then that Joe disagree with you

Vinnie222

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Big difference on the quality of oppositions . Conan imo had enough chances to prove himself to get ahead of Stander and didnt take any . Cant see that changing anytime soon

No there isn't, Toulouse have been excellent this season. Leinster will be playing Saracens in 3 weeks anyway.

AbusesToilets

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Lucky for Stander then that Joe disagree with you

Evidently. Hopefully not unlucky for the rest of us come November.

Shefwedfan

Vinnie222 wrote: »

Big difference on the quality of oppositions . Conan imo had enough chances to prove himself to get ahead of Stander and didnt take any . Cant see that changing anytime soon

Rynhardt Elstadt, Joe Tekori, Jerome Kaino

Looks a decent opposition, in terms of Kaino are you saying he isn’t good?

Vinnie222

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Rynhardt Elstadt, Joe Tekori, Jerome Kaino

Looks a decent opposition, in terms of Kaino are you saying he isn’t good?

Not yesterday , was he not taken off just after the break . Saracens will be by far tougher

baas baa

On Beirne I'd still back him to make the WC squad, he offers something different from others with his breakdown work. I see him as being similar to O'Mahony, neither have traditional skillsets for their positions, both struggled Saturday as Munsters pack were generally outmuscled, failing to dominate collisions and allowing them to shine. The Irish pack is a different beast though and somebody with Beirnes skillset could compliment the power that the likes of Healy, Furlong, Ryan, Henderson and Stander bring.

troyzer

baas baa wrote: »

On Beirne I'd still back him to make the WC squad, he offers something different from others with his breakdown work. I see him as being similar to O'Mahony, neither have traditional skillsets for their positions, both struggled Saturday as Munsters pack were generally outmuscled, failing to dominate collisions and allowing them to shine. The Irish pack is a different beast though and somebody with Beirnes skillset could compliment the power that the likes of Healy, Furlong, Ryan, Henderson and Stander bring.

He was completely anonymous against Wales.

AbusesToilets

baas baa wrote: »

On Beirne I'd still back him to make the WC squad, he offers something different from others with his breakdown work. I see him as being similar to O'Mahony, neither have traditional skillsets for their positions, both struggled Saturday as Munsters pack were generally outmuscled, failing to dominate collisions and allowing them to shine. The Irish pack is a different beast though and somebody with Beirnes skillset could compliment the power that the likes of Healy, Furlong, Ryan, Henderson and Stander bring.

You're talking about accommodating players in the hope that they can achieve one or two moments of success in one particular area. Neither Beirne or POM are at the level of a player like Pocock or Warburton, who are masters at the breakdown, and also excellent in other areas.

baas baa

troyzer wrote: »

He was completely anonymous against Wales.

As was the entire side.

baas baa

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You're talking about accommodating players in the hope that they can achieve one or two moments of success in one particular area. Neither Beirne or POM are at the level of a player like Pocock or Warburton, who are masters at the breakdown, and also excellent in other areas.

They contribute far more throughout a game than one or two moments of success in a particular area.

I don't see how our backrow isn't a concern at the moment. Let's not bother pretending Conan has any chance of starting any of the big RWC games, he doesn't really. POM and Stander aren't influencing games at the noment and SOB played well on Sunday but he has to keep it up, he didn't do it in the 6N at all.

I hate the phrase a player has been 'found out' but it's hard to see it any other way with Stander. No footwork, no threat of an offload, he's too easy to defend against now imo. Still has a pretty amazing workrate.

I wonder if Farrell has any different thoughts on the team to Schmidt.

troyzer

baas baa wrote: »

They contribute far more throughout a game than one or two moments of success in a particular area.

Beirne was completely anonymous against Wales as was POM.

This is the issue. POM when he's making key turnovers and lineout steals is world-class. Same with Beirne on the deck.

The issue is that Beirne hasn't been able to replicate it at test level, probably because he's not physically up to it. And POM has always had a very poor workrate. Take away his poaching and lineouts and he's an empty shirt.

You can have one of them in the team but not two. You need workers in the pack and neither of them are.

Exclamation Marc

troyzer wrote: »

Beirne was completely anonymous against Wales as was POM.

This is the issue. POM when he's making key turnovers and lineout steals is world-class. Same with Beirne on the deck.

The issue is that Beirne hasn't been able to replicate it at test level, probably because he's not physically up to it. And POM has always had a very poor workrate. Take away his poaching and lineouts and he's an empty shirt.

You can have one of them in the team but not two. You need workers in the pack and neither of them are.

Beirne just hasn't replicated his Scarlets form on an extended or continued basis either at Munster or Ireland and whether people argue that it's down to Ireland's form, Munsters form, relevant opposition or Joe's reluctance to give him extended time, it's irrelevant. He hasn't made himself invaluable, been good enough to get on the plane or had the performances that warrant a chance.

His best hope now is for someone to get injured.

Gonad

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You're talking about accommodating players in the hope that they can achieve one or two moments of success in one particular area. Neither Beirne or POM are at the level of a player like Pocock or Warburton, who are masters at the breakdown, and also excellent in other areas.

POM has been class for Ireland in many of the big games the past few years . England 2017 when he came in late for Heaslip and against the All Blacks last year he was unreal .

I think we are suffering from a lack of go forward from our backs . I think Aki has been class but maybe Henshaw will offer a bit more in that department when fit . I still think Stander is essential player going forward but would like to see us maybe varying our attack a bit more rather then sending Stander crashing into contact at every opportunity .

Hopefully Joe has something up his sleeve for the World Cup

molloyjh

We certainly lacked go forward, but not from our backs. Our pack weren't at the races at all during the 6Ns. I've no idea why, but they just weren't. Add to that a scrum half trying to find his way back from injury and a 10 in a similar position and the simple fact is the backs never really had a chance.

As for Stander, he fulfills the role of a traditional blindside in many respects. He takes on crap ball and recycles it well. Kev McLaughlin was great for Leinster at that stuff. Which is totally fine as long as you have another guy making yards or showing a bit more dynamism. We've struggled with that part. SOB in his pomp was great for it. Leavy gave us an option there last season. But none of our options this season could deliver there. That's possibly where Conan could come into things. He does offer a bit more in the carrying stakes than other options do.

What that means for the rest of the back row I dont really know. POM is talismanic when he's on song. But does that mean Stander goes to the bench? Does Conan offer enough elsewhere to offset the relegation of Stander. It's a tough one.