Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

irishbucsfan

Erik Shun wrote: »

AIL club players being drafted into the Pro14 is a bit extreme, no?

I take your point though...not sure it's true..can't see like of Carberry, Scannell, Sweetnam, Farrell Ryan etc at Munster not playing until December..it's just not viable I think

Sorry, should have said international player.

But I’m sure that’s true. The overall point is that it does not matter at all that Best (or Rob keanrey or anyone else who decides to finish up) is not going to play for their province after the World Cup.

Erik Shun

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Sorry, should have said international player.

But I’m sure that’s true. The overall point is that it does not matter at all that Best (or Rob keanrey or anyone else who decides to finish up) is not going to play for their province after the World Cup.

I'm not too bothered about after the world cup...my thinking is there is no way in hell that a 36 yo man will be match fit in 6 months time after 2? Warm-up games

irishbucsfan

Erik Shun wrote: »

I'm not too bothered about after the world cup...my thinking is there is no way in hell that a 36 yo man will be match fit in 6 months time after 2? Warm-up games

That's the exact same number of warm-up games that everyone else in the squad will have. So we'd better hope he is

Shefwedfan

Erik Shun wrote: »

I'm not too bothered about after the world cup...my thinking is there is no way in hell that a 36 yo man will be match fit in 6 months time after 2? Warm-up games

Not sure what your point is?


All the players including Best will be getting the same warm up to the WC.....


Best has just decided to finish after the WC. A number of players have done the same. Didn't McCaw hand up boots after last WC?

thomond2006

Nucifora set to sign a 4 year contract to remain with the IRFU, per the 42.

Brilliant news.

kingofthekong

Great news regarding Nucifora

yerrahbah

https://twitter.com/RugbyPlayersIRE/status/1128780057512747010

Congrats to Jack Carty

He beat Will Addison, Tadhg Beirne, Cian Healy, James Lowe and James Ryan to the award

Clegg

James Ryan wins Players Player of the Year and Young Player of the Year at the Ireland Rugby awards.

He's getting better and better.

arsebiscuits1

At the risk of going full hyperbole, have we seen an Irish second row as talented as Ryan before?

It will be a few season before he can be considered the best Irish lock of all time but for the here and now on a skills and ability basis, has there been better?

He possesses both footwork and raw power of which he uses both to beat defenders.

He is an excellent lineout option.

His tackles are usually minimum in the high teens and the most I've ever seen him miss in a game is 2.

He can cover tight and loose side in the scrum.

He has phenomenal hands and real ability to offload post contact

His performance doesn't dip at any stage between minute 1 and 80

In Ireland we have seen some great second rows but I cannot think of any as rounded as him

troyzer

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

At the risk of going full hyperbole, have we seen an Irish second row as talented as Ryan before?

It will be a few season before he can be considered the best Irish lock of all time but for the here and now on a skills and ability basis, has there been better?

He possesses both footwork and raw power of which he uses both to beat defenders.

He is an excellent lineout option.

His tackles are usually minimum in the high teens and the most I've ever seen him miss in a game is 2.

He can cover tight and loose side in the scrum.

He has phenomenal hands and real ability to offload post contact

His performance doesn't dip at any stage between minute 1 and 80

In Ireland we have seen some great second rows but I cannot think of any as rounded as him

The only thing separating him from someone like Alun Wyn Jones and Maro Itoje is his lack of dog.

He needs to be more of a wily bastard.

stephen_n

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

At the risk of going full hyperbole, have we seen an Irish second row as talented as Ryan before?

It will be a few season before he can be considered the best Irish lock of all time but for the here and now on a skills and ability basis, has there been better?

He possesses both footwork and raw power of which he uses both to beat defenders.

He is an excellent lineout option.

His tackles are usually minimum in the high teens and the most I've ever seen him miss in a game is 2.

He can cover tight and loose side in the scrum.

He has phenomenal hands and real ability to offload post contact

His performance doesn't dip at any stage between minute 1 and 80

In Ireland we have seen some great second rows but I cannot think of any as rounded as him

Sits and waits patiently for Paul’s response...

Jump_In_Jack

James Ryan is a great rugby player, but at 17 stone he seems to be a bit underweight compared to other top international second-rows.

Shefwedfan

troyzer wrote: »

The only thing separating him from someone like Alun Wyn Jones and Maro Itoje is his lack of dog.

He needs to be more of a wily bastard.

Alun Wyn Jones has only come on in last few seasons......


Ryan is still very young


Itoje is just a dirty fecker :P:P:P

Former Former

He's the certainly the most complete second row for his age that we've seen. As to the rest of it, let's wait another year or two.

arsebiscuits1

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

James Ryan is a great rugby player, but at 17 stone he seems to be a bit underweight compared to other top international second-rows.

I wouldn't say that argument is hugely relevant given how he has performed against those top level locks though

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Alun Wyn Jones has only come on in last few seasons......

Ah here. AWJ has played in each of the last 9 Lions tests, going back to 2009. But he's only come on in the last few seasons??

Yeah_Right

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

James Ryan is a great rugby player, but at 17 stone he seems to be a bit underweight compared to other top international second-rows.

What's that in real measurements?

jacothelad

Yeah_Right wrote: »

What's that in real measurements?

108 kg.

stephen_n

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Itoje is just a dirty fecker :P:P:P

And as a result is a penalty magnet.

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

Ah here. AWJ has played in each of the last 9 Lions tests, going back to 2009. But he's only come on in the last few seasons??

Maybe read the post and then read the quote....the reference was about the dog in them....

AWJ has come on massively in last few years.....when he started out he didn't have that niggle....same as Ryan



Do we have to explain everything in full detail? just so you don't get confused?

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Maybe read the post and then read the quote....the reference was about the dog in them....

AWJ has come on massively in last few years.....when he started out he didn't have that niggle....same as Ryan



Do we have to explain everything in full detail? just so you don't get confused?

Frankly, from someone who thinks James Hart is a massive loss to Ireland, then yes, the more detail you provide the better.

And if you could cut down on the condescension as well, that'd be great.

Jump_In_Jack

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I wouldn't say that argument is hugely relevant given how he has performed against those top level locks though

I just wonder what a 19 stone James Ryan would be like.

accensi0n

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I just wonder what a 19 stone James Ryan would be like.

11% better.

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

Frankly, from someone who thinks James Hart is a massive loss to Ireland, then yes, the more detail you provide the better.

And if you could cut down on the condescension as well, that'd be great.

Personally, any Irish player that has to move to a foreign club is a massive loss to Ireland.

Especially one who has shown when playing in France he is a quality player. Best of luck to him anyway, he found a club quickly and I am sure he will be a success.

Former Observer

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I just wonder what a 19 stone James Ryan would be like.

I wonder what a forty stone James Ryan would be like.

Erik Shun

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I just wonder what a 19 stone James Ryan would be like.

Fat?

Shefwedfan

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I just wonder what a 19 stone James Ryan would be like.

Slllloooowwwww

Burkie1203

Former Observer wrote: »

I wonder what a forty stone James Ryan would be like.

A prop forwards worst nightmare

Clegg

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I just wonder what a 19 stone James Ryan would be like.

Probably not as good. What makes Ryan so good is his incredible work rate and speed off the mark. Put two stone on him and both those aspects of his game diminish.

Maybe when he gets into his late 20's and early 30's he'll need to adjust his game for loss of athleticism. But for now he should stay as he is.

Jump_In_Jack

Clegg wrote: »

Probably not as good. What makes Ryan so good is his incredible work rate and speed off the mark. Put two stone on him and both those aspects of his game diminish.

Maybe when he gets into his late 20's and early 30's he'll need to adjust his game for loss of athleticism. But for now he should stay as he is.

Just makes me wonder if Ryan needs to be paired up with a heavier lock, such as Toner or Roux, or soon Kleyn will be eligible too.
Beirne or Dillane might not be able to play alongside Ryan effectively.
Henderson is not the heaviest lock, but they are a likely pairing for the World Cup in my view.
We could be bullied by other packs with bigger locks, some other teams' locks are on average around 19 stone.
I'm thinking in particular about South Africa.

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Personally, any Irish player that has to move to a foreign club is a massive loss to Ireland.

Especially one who has shown when playing in France he is a quality player. Best of luck to him anyway, he found a club quickly and I am sure he will be a success.

That's just not accurate, especially for a player who was never close to getting anywhere near and Ireland squad.

In fact, retaining them could be detrimental, as they could block game time from academy players who have higher potential ceilings.

In any case, this is going over old ground so I'll leave it there.

salmocab

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Just makes me wonder if Ryan needs to be paired up with a heavier lock, such as Toner or Roux, or soon Kleyn will be eligible too.
Beirne or Dillane might not be able to play alongside Ryan effectively.
Henderson is not the heaviest lock, but they are a likely pairing for the World Cup in my view.
We could be bullied by other packs with bigger locks, some other teams' locks are on average around 19 stone.
I'm thinking in particular about South Africa.

I think for the WC big games it will be Ryan and Toner. Henderson offers more off the bench than Toner could and finishing out games is more likely to require Henderson’s extra dynamism.

swiwi_

Clegg wrote: »

James Ryan wins Players Player of the Year and Young Player of the Year at the Ireland Rugby awards.

He's getting better and better.

And in other news, boards.ie is delighted to reveal the identity of Clegg.

"So Mrs Ryan, are you proud of your son?"

Clegg

swiwi_ wrote: »

And in other news, boards.ie is delighted to reveal the identity of Clegg.

"So Mrs Ryan, are you proud of your son?"

Excuse me?!

It's future Mrs to you.

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

That's just not accurate, especially for a player who was never close to getting anywhere near and Ireland squad.

In fact, retaining them could be detrimental, as they could block game time from academy players who have higher potential ceilings.

In any case, this is going over old ground so I'll leave it there.

When he signed for Munster he was seen as a future Irish international.

Unfotuneatly that didn't happen. The sad fact remains that he will have played more minutes for Racing in 1 season than in 2 seasons with Munster.....

I think you will find that long after Hart is gone young academy players will be blocked at certain provinces.

Your going over old ground, you brought up Hart, not me

swiwi_

Clegg wrote: »

Excuse me?!

It's future Mrs to you.

Ryan is a bastard? :eek: :pac:

Shefwedfan

swiwi_ wrote: »

Ryan is a bastard? :eek: :pac:

Watching game of thrones?

swiwi_

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Watching game of thrones?

I specialise in watching trending series about 5 years after everyone else. So not yet, no...

joseywhales

Surely we want our players as light and as powerful as possible with a little left over to soak up hits, he has a fairly perfect body composition

arsebiscuits1

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Just makes me wonder if Ryan needs to be paired up with a heavier lock, such as Toner or Roux, or soon Kleyn will be eligible too.
Beirne or Dillane might not be able to play alongside Ryan effectively.
Henderson is not the heaviest lock, but they are a likely pairing for the World Cup in my view.
We could be bullied by other packs with bigger locks, some other teams' locks are on average around 19 stone.
I'm thinking in particular about South Africa.

Henderson is actually heavier than you think. Ulster currently have him at 117kgs and he's been up past 120kgs before

Buer

James Ryan isn't a physical monster but I struggle to believe that a 6'8" second row who looks completely at home in test rugby is still only 108kg. I would guess he's 4 or 5kg heavier than that.

bilston

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Just makes me wonder if Ryan needs to be paired up with a heavier lock, such as Toner or Roux, or soon Kleyn will be eligible too.
Beirne or Dillane might not be able to play alongside Ryan effectively.
Henderson is not the heaviest lock, but they are a likely pairing for the World Cup in my view.
We could be bullied by other packs with bigger locks, some other teams' locks are on average around 19 stone.
I'm thinking in particular about South Africa.

Surely Henderson is the most physical lock we have. Did you see the shift he put in against France who aren't exactly small? I think we missed him massively against England. It's certainly possible that Ryan and Toner start the big games, but Joe has rotated that a bit in the past so we will see.

Also I'm surprised to learn that Ryan is "only" 17 stone. It does seem quite light, but then it doesn't seem to be holding him back

mogwai81

I‘m never fully convinced by the weights of players on club websites. I not sure how often there updated. But unless a player mentions their weight in an interview, we don’t really have anything else to go on. Plus some players seem more explosive then others regardless of their weight.

stephen_n

Shefwedfan wrote: »

When he signed for Munster he was seen as a future Irish international.

Unfotuneatly that didn't happen. The sad fact remains that he will have played more minutes for Racing in 1 season than in 2 seasons with Munster.....

I think you will find that long after Hart is gone young academy players will be blocked at certain provinces.

Your going over old ground, you brought up Hart, not me

Seen by who as a future international? Posters on Boards who had probably never seen him play? He wasn’t good enough to make the Munster B squad, he was never going to make it near an Irish squad. Just because he played T14 doesn’t mean he’s good enough for the Irish Team.

salmocab

I can’t believe Hart is being talked about, he did okay in France and was certainly worth a punt for Munster but he didn’t work out, he’s moving on and good luck to the guy but he’s no real loss to Irish rugby at all.

aloooof

salmocab wrote: »

I can’t believe Hart is being talked about, he did okay in France and was certainly worth a punt for Munster but he didn’t work out, he’s moving on and good luck to the guy but he’s no real loss to Irish rugby at all.

My bad, I shouldn't have brought it up again.

In the interests of moving things along, Stockdale named at FB for Ulster. Could be an option for Ireland down the line?

Shefwedfan

stephen_n wrote: »

Seen by who as a future international? Posters on Boards who had probably never seen him play? He wasn’t good enough to make the Munster B squad, he was never going to make it near an Irish squad. Just because he played T14 doesn’t mean he’s good enough for the Irish Team.

Very strange, maybe Racing had run out of money and that is why they bought him. Oh wait, they also played him 19 times and he scored 63 points.

I never knew the Munster B squad was better to the Racing first team?

He was brought back at the stage that Ireland really only had Murray, a number of players had retired and he was potentially going to be an Irish squad player.

In 2 season at Munster he has played 16 times.....hardly much of a chance given is it?

It done with, he is left and I hope he hasa good career....he deserves it

Buer

Just to post what I posted before about Hart's season at Racing:

After Phillips left, they only had 3 scrum halves on their books and he was 3rd choice. Machenaud was with France for part of the season and Chauveau copped a bad injury forcing Racing to sign a joker in the second half of the season and use their academy to cover scrum half. That's why he got a number of starts.

The most indicative statistic of how he was genuintely rated in Racing was the fact that he was almost entirely unused during the Champions Cup campaign despite being on the bench a few times (due to no other option) in matches that were dead long before the final whistle. They flogged Machenaud in games already lost rather than bring him on.

Hart was never and will never be an option for Irish selection. He was a shot to nothing for Munster and he didn't work out at all. Best of luck to him but his level is a squad player at a mid-table side if we're being honest.

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

My bad, I shouldn't have brought it up again.

In the interests of moving things along, Stockdale named at FB for Ulster. Could be an option for Ireland down the line?

For a big lad he is not great in the air....he is one of our best wingers....him and Earls are a great combination. I would prefer to see him stay on the wing and we give Larmour a chance....


Even for Leinster Larmour hasn't had a run of 5 games one after another at 15....he done very well in air against Saracens

Jump_In_Jack

mogwai81 wrote: »

I‘m never fully convinced by the weights of players on club websites. I not sure how often there updated. But unless a player mentions their weight in an interview, we don’t really have anything else to go on. Plus some players seem more explosive then others regardless of their weight.

The IRFU and every other source I can find has him at 108kg, 17 stone.
If he is actually heavier than that then fair enough, but if that is his weight it is a bit below the norm.
That said, maybe he is a new breed, tall and athletic and still powerful but lighter.
Brodie Retallick is the benchmark lock to compare everyone else to, and he's around 123kg, 19.4 stone, still athletic and powerful, but maybe not fair to compare everyone to him, he's a rare phenomenon.

Alun Wyn Jones is also 17 stone, it seems to be enough, particularly if paired with a heavier lock.