Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

Dubinusa

I reckon a healthy Dillane must travel if Toner is out. Dillane is a strong ball carrier and another big lump, who can impact matches.
POM probably will be our 6. I would give Beirne a couple of run outs during the warm ups. I think 6 is his best position.
Ringrose has had issues recently. But, he's still better than everyone else imo.

Shefwedfan

Listening to Brian Moore podcast, he had Thinus delport on. Anyway it came around to WC...

More or less he said they had NZ up first, win or lose they don't really care but just get past them. Probably lose.

The point was made then normally you win to get an easier game but not really in case of South Africa because they will end up with Ireland or Scotland. Anyway....much of a muchness, doesn't matter which you get....get past either of them and then a hard semi and final. Then meet New Zealand in the final, because they play them first up it gives them a straight run to final before they have to play them again

So South Africa really rate us along with Scotland and not a huge concern to beat Ireland....you could even say they will lose against NZ as it will be an easier game in the Qtrs :-)

AbusesToilets

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Listening to Brian Moore podcast, he had Thinus delport on. Anyway it came around to WC...

More or less he said they had NZ up first, win or lose they don't really care but just get past them. Probably lose.

The point was made then normally you win to get an easier game but not really in case of South Africa because they will end up with Ireland or Scotland. Anyway....much of a muchness, doesn't matter which you get....get past either of them and then a hard semi and final. Then meet New Zealand in the final, because they play them first up it gives them a straight run to final before they have to play them again

So South Africa really rate us along with Scotland and not a huge concern to beat Ireland....you could even say they will lose against NZ as it will be an easier game in the Qtrs :-)

Given out WC history and recent form, hard to argue against that assessment. Joe and the team really have a tough job to come up with a game plan to counter how teams know to beat us now. SA would be fairly tailor made to pose a massive challenge with their physicality.

Not confident in that match up at all.

Shefwedfan

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Given out WC history and recent form, hard to argue against that assessment. Joe and the team really have a tough job to come up with a game plan to counter how teams know to beat us now. SA would be fairly tailor made to pose a massive challenge with their physicality.

Not confident in that match up at all.

I am not disagreeing with it....


More or less they seen the fact they had NZ up first as an advantage as they miss them the whole way to the final...


I would love Ireland to be in that position once....he had no concern about Ireland at all....just a qtr to get past to the real teams :P

sxt

I think Ireland have been found out a bit and don't have enough time to reinvent themselves. I can't see the world cup winning team not being nz, s. Africa, Australia, England or Wales

I'd fancy them to beat s. Africa in a one off game in world cup if it came to that, but they'd probably have to crock half a dozen players to do it!

There are teams that can lose half a dozen top players and still win against great teams. Thats what you need to win a world cup. Ireland are not one of those teams

bilston

We can still make an impact at the WC.

The fact is Murray and Sexton didn't have a great 6Ns, but there are signs that they are moving in the right direction...and in truth I have a suspicion that out players were not primed to peak in the first half of 2019, but rather they will hit their peak in the second half. That's just a theory of mine and probably b******t but we will find out in the Autumn.

Shefwedfan

bilston wrote: »

We can still make an impact at the WC.

The fact is Murray and Sexton didn't have a great 6Ns, but there are signs that they are moving in the right direction...and in truth I have a suspicion that out players were not primed to peak in the first half of 2019, but rather they will hit their peak in the second half. That's just a theory of mine and probably b******t but we will find out in the Autumn.

I still find it funny that Sexton was playing a lot of games for Leinster at the start of the season, in Pro 14 as well....normally you never see him till the Munster match or game before it....



Now a lot of games maybe 1-2 but that is for Sexton, especailly in Pro 14

stl.ire

sxt wrote: »

I think Ireland have been found out a bit and don't have enough time to reinvent themselves. I can't see the world cup winning team not being nz, s. Africa, Australia, England or Wales

I'd fancy them to beat s. Africa in a one off game in world cup if it came to that, but they'd probably have to crock half a dozen players to do it!

There are teams that can lose half a dozen top players and still win against great teams. Thats what you need to win a world cup. Ireland are not one of those teams

Ireland will have a month with Schmidt and his team before the 1st kickoff so in theory there's certainly still time. Many countries have done so in the past (admittedly Ireland have often done the opposite!).

As for the other big countries, while I'm not high on Ireland's chances, no one else is perfect right now. NZ are rightly favorites but are a much weaker side than the last 2 tournaments, SA are dangerous but are not a finished article yet and struggle away from home, Aus are in disarray and just fired their best player and Wales are in a similar position as Ireland last WC in that they cannot afford injuries due to their depth issues. England might be in the best shape but have a nightmare schedule - 2 tier two nations first then Arg, France, 1/4 final, 1/2 final, final - that's 5 straight tier one test matches with no rest for your 1st team! (by comparison Ireland have Scotland then 3 tier 2 games before the knockouts so should have time for rest)

troyzer

It all comes down to two things:

1) Injuries and form. Not much can be done about this, just hope for the best.

2) Can Joe rejig the attack plan? The defense for the most part was fine, some small adjustments and we'll get there. But the attack does need a serious rework, I don't know if that's possible because we see echoes of Ireland's woes in Munster especially as well.

AbusesToilets

troyzer wrote: »

It all comes down to two things:

1) Injuries and form. Not much can be done about this, just hope for the best.

2) Can Joe rejig the attack plan? The defense for the most part was fine, some small adjustments and we'll get there. But the attack does need a serious rework, I don't know if that's possible because we see echoes of Ireland's woes in Munster especially as well.

On your second point, an effort to address the attack has to look at a change in personnel.

troyzer

AbusesToilets wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

It all comes down to two things:

1) Injuries and form. Not much can be done about this, just hope for the best.

2) Can Joe rejig the attack plan? The defense for the most part was fine, some small adjustments and we'll get there. But the attack does need a serious rework, I don't know if that's possible because we see echoes of Ireland's woes in Munster especially as well.

On your second point, an effort to address the attack has to look at a change in personnel.

Well that's not going to happen this side of the world cup. If a rejig requires a new coach then we're ****ed. Not getting past the quarter.

AbusesToilets

troyzer wrote: »

Well that's not going to happen this side of the world cup. If a rejig requires a new coach then we're ****ed. Not getting past the quarter.

Was speaking in relation to the players.

troyzer

AbusesToilets wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Well that's not going to happen this side of the world cup. If a rejig requires a new coach then we're ****ed. Not getting past the quarter.

Was speaking in relation to the players.

Oh right, what did you have in mind?

AbusesToilets

troyzer wrote: »

Oh right, what did you have in mind?

Pushing the current incumbents to play with more attacking intent, or selecting those can do so, Conan over Stander for example. Looking to utilise second phase playmakers more effectively in the backline.

troyzer

AbusesToilets wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Oh right, what did you have in mind?

Pushing the current incumbents to play with more attacking intent, or selecting those can do so, Conan over Stander for example. Looking to utilise second phase playmakers more effectively in the backline.

I'd be shocked if Conan doesn't get the nod at 8 for the warmups and given the chance to make it his own.

Taking the pace of the rush defense is the more change they need to make. I think that can be done with the current team in time.

My team for the Scotland game based on current form / presumed fitness at date of game:

Cian Healy
Sean Cronin
Tadgh Furlong
James Ryan
Devon Toner
Peter O'Mahony
Josh Van Der Beek
CJ Standar
Conor Murray
Johnny Sexton
Jacob Stockdale
Robbie Henshaw
Garry Ringrose
Keith Earls
Rob Kearney

Jack McGrath
Rory Best
Andrew Porter
Ian Henderson
Tadgh Beirne
John Cooney
Jack Carty
Jordan Larmour

I prefer the Leinster tight 5 to any other combination. They perform, they're all proven and familiar and whilst Cronin is the weak link I don't think he is anything more of a weak link than any other options and he is very used to that group of players around him and continuously delivers in their company.

Back row is going to be probably the main point of debate / contention in the build up. I've no reason not to believe this is what Joe will go with so this is what I've picked. SOB / VDF is an argument but I don't see it as such after the weekend.

I like Henderson / Beirne as options for 5.5. Henderson if you are chasing a game, Beirne if you are looking to shut a game down. I'm not sure Schmidt considers either a back row option but I think it provides a lot of interesting versatility and Toner / Ryan are proven 80 minute players.

The rest of the team picks itself. Bundee can feel hard done by, I think Robbie wins that battle by having played with Ringrose a lot more frequently. There are plenty of close enough calls but that's what it looks like currently to me.

Very hard to argue against Jack Conan somewhere in that 23. He really is playing very well this season and has moved up a gear in the knock out's.

mystic86

Any word on the world cup jersey launch?

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Cian Healy
Rory Best
Tadgh Furlong
James Ryan
Ian Henderson
CJ Standar
Peter O'Mahony
Jack Conan
Conor Murray
Johnny Sexton
Jacob Stockdale
Robbie Henshaw
Garry Ringrose
Keith Earls
Rob Kearney

Jack McGrath
Cronin
Andrew Porter
Toner
Marmion
Carberry
Jordan Larmour
SOB

That would be my team and bench.



The only question is if Joe will reward form and start with Conan. If Beirne travels then he can play in the other games.

AdamD

Deleted User wrote: »

My team for the Scotland game based on current form / presumed fitness at date of game:

Cian Healy
Sean Cronin
Tadgh Furlong
James Ryan
Devon Toner
Peter O'Mahony
Josh Van Der Beek
CJ Standar
Conor Murray
Johnny Sexton
Jacob Stockdale
Robbie Henshaw
Garry Ringrose
Keith Earls
Rob Kearney

Jack McGrath
Rory Best
Andrew Porter
Ian Henderson
Tadgh Beirne
John Cooney
Jack Carty
Jordan Larmour

I prefer the Leinster tight 5 to any other combination. They perform, they're all proven and familiar and whilst Cronin is the weak link I don't think he is anything more of a weak link than any other options and he is very used to that group of players around him and continuously delivers in their company.

Back row is going to be probably the main point of debate / contention in the build up. I've no reason not to believe this is what Joe will go with so this is what I've picked. SOB / VDF is an argument but I don't see it as such after the weekend.

I like Henderson / Beirne as options for 5.5. Henderson if you are chasing a game, Beirne if you are looking to shut a game down. I'm not sure Schmidt considers either a back row option but I think it provides a lot of interesting versatility and Toner / Ryan are proven 80 minute players.

The rest of the team picks itself. Bundee can feel hard done by, I think Robbie wins that battle by having played with Ringrose a lot more frequently. There are plenty of close enough calls but that's what it looks like currently to me.

Very hard to argue against Jack Conan somewhere in that 23. He really is playing very well this season and has moved up a gear in the knock out's.

Fail to see how you can have both POM and Stander in the same team on form.

I'd like to see
6. Stander
7. JVDF
8. Conan

troyzer

AdamD wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

My team for the Scotland game based on current form / presumed fitness at date of game:

Cian Healy
Sean Cronin
Tadgh Furlong
James Ryan
Devon Toner
Peter O'Mahony
Josh Van Der Beek
CJ Standar
Conor Murray
Johnny Sexton
Jacob Stockdale
Robbie Henshaw
Garry Ringrose
Keith Earls
Rob Kearney

Jack McGrath
Rory Best
Andrew Porter
Ian Henderson
Tadgh Beirne
John Cooney
Jack Carty
Jordan Larmour

I prefer the Leinster tight 5 to any other combination. They perform, they're all proven and familiar and whilst Cronin is the weak link I don't think he is anything more of a weak link than any other options and he is very used to that group of players around him and continuously delivers in their company.

Back row is going to be probably the main point of debate / contention in the build up. I've no reason not to believe this is what Joe will go with so this is what I've picked. SOB / VDF is an argument but I don't see it as such after the weekend.

I like Henderson / Beirne as options for 5.5. Henderson if you are chasing a game, Beirne if you are looking to shut a game down. I'm not sure Schmidt considers either a back row option but I think it provides a lot of interesting versatility and Toner / Ryan are proven 80 minute players.

The rest of the team picks itself. Bundee can feel hard done by, I think Robbie wins that battle by having played with Ringrose a lot more frequently. There are plenty of close enough calls but that's what it looks like currently to me.

Very hard to argue against Jack Conan somewhere in that 23. He really is playing very well this season and has moved up a gear in the knock out's.

Fail to see how you can have both POM and Stander in the same team on form.

I'd like to see
6. Stander
7. JVDF
8. Conan

Yeah, I think you can't not play Conan and VdF.

It's a shootout between Stander's workrate and POM's lineout. If you start Toner, then I think Stander edges it.

molloyjh

Form never has been, nor ever will be, the sole factor in selection. Especially not form playing at a different level for a different team playing a different way. Provincial form gets you into camp. What you do in there (plus previous performances for Ireland) is what gets you selected for matches. Conan will be in the wider squad. Whether he does enough when hes there to warrant selection is another matter.

Shefwedfan

AdamD wrote: »

Fail to see how you can have both POM and Stander in the same team on form.

I'd like to see
6. Stander
7. JVDF
8. Conan

POM will not be dropped. So best option would be Standar/POM/Conan


As you say POM based on form should be dropped but he won't be as Co-Captain etc.

troyzer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

AdamD wrote: »

Fail to see how you can have both POM and Stander in the same team on form.

I'd like to see
6. Stander
7. JVDF
8. Conan

POM will not be dropped. So best option would be Standar/POM/Conan


As you say POM based on form should be dropped but he won't be as Co-Captain etc.

Van der Flier is the best openside currently by a country mile.

If POM has to play then Stander gets dropped.

Wegians89

troyzer wrote: »

Van der Flier is the best openside currently by a country mile.

If POM has to play then Stander gets dropped.

I’d agree Conan 8 and vdf 7 with the rest battling it out for 6 would be the best option in my opinion

Shefwedfan

troyzer wrote: »

Van der Flier is the best openside currently by a country mile.

If POM has to play then Stander gets dropped.

If it was my decision I would drop POM and stick Standar in at 6 and put VDF in at 7. Conan at 8


I just dont think Joe will do that

aloooof

Since Heaslip got injured in the warm-up v England, I think this is the closest we've come to seeing a change from POM 6, Stander 8 in that period, but I'd still expect that to be the line-up (with VdF at 7) against Scotland.

troyzer

I doubt much is going to change on Saturday in terms of pecking order so here would be my guess at the 31 man squad going into the summer:

Props: Healy, Furlong, Kilcoyne, Porter and Ryan.

Hooker: Best, Cronin, Scannell.

Locks: Toner, Ryan, Henderson and Dillane.

Backrow: VdF, POM, Stander, Conan and Nordi.

Halfbacks: Murray, Sexton, Carty, Carbery and Cooney.

Centres: Ringrose, Henshaw, Farrell, Aki.

Outside backs: Kearney, Larmour, Earls, Stockdale and Conway.

Harsh on Jack McGrath and Tadhg Beirne but neither of them are playing well enough. Beirne especially just seems to not show up against big teams. Nordi might lose his spot to SOB if he trains well and shows up in the warmups. Carty and Cooney are ahead of Byrne and McGrath/Marmion. Though I can see Marmion going instead of Cooney because of his experience.

Chris Farrell is fairly nailed on for me. His gain is Will Addison's loss. Conway could easily loss his spot in the warm ups to someone like Dave Kearney who I think is playing better rugby.

kingofthekong

Deleted User wrote: »

My team for the Scotland game based on current form / presumed fitness at date of game:

Cian Healy
Sean Cronin
Tadgh Furlong
James Ryan
Devon Toner
Peter O'Mahony
Josh Van Der Beek
CJ Standar
Conor Murray
Johnny Sexton
Jacob Stockdale
Robbie Henshaw
Garry Ringrose
Keith Earls
Rob Kearney

Jack McGrath
Rory Best
Andrew Porter
Ian Henderson
Tadgh Beirne
John Cooney
Jack Carty
Jordan Larmour

I prefer the Leinster tight 5 to any other combination. They perform, they're all proven and familiar and whilst Cronin is the weak link I don't think he is anything more of a weak link than any other options and he is very used to that group of players around him and continuously delivers in their company.

Back row is going to be probably the main point of debate / contention in the build up. I've no reason not to believe this is what Joe will go with so this is what I've picked. SOB / VDF is an argument but I don't see it as such after the weekend.

I like Henderson / Beirne as options for 5.5. Henderson if you are chasing a game, Beirne if you are looking to shut a game down. I'm not sure Schmidt considers either a back row option but I think it provides a lot of interesting versatility and Toner / Ryan are proven 80 minute players.

The rest of the team picks itself. Bundee can feel hard done by, I think Robbie wins that battle by having played with Ringrose a lot more frequently. There are plenty of close enough calls but that's what it looks like currently to me.

Very hard to argue against Jack Conan somewhere in that 23. He really is playing very well this season and has moved up a gear in the knock out's.

You say based on current form and then pick O'mahony loool
Based on current form he should be playing for Munster 'A'

mY Backrow would be: Conan, VDY , Beirne

I like the way saracens did that with Leinster in the final and picked 3 second rows

kingofthekong

Deleted User wrote: »

My team for the Scotland game based on current form / presumed fitness at date of game:

Cian Healy
Sean Cronin
Tadgh Furlong
James Ryan
Devon Toner
Peter O'Mahony
Josh Van Der Beek
CJ Standar
Conor Murray
Johnny Sexton
Jacob Stockdale
Robbie Henshaw
Garry Ringrose
Keith Earls
Rob Kearney

Jack McGrath
Rory Best
Andrew Porter
Ian Henderson
Tadgh Beirne
John Cooney
Jack Carty
Jordan Larmour

I prefer the Leinster tight 5 to any other combination. They perform, they're all proven and familiar and whilst Cronin is the weak link I don't think he is anything more of a weak link than any other options and he is very used to that group of players around him and continuously delivers in their company.

Back row is going to be probably the main point of debate / contention in the build up. I've no reason not to believe this is what Joe will go with so this is what I've picked. SOB / VDF is an argument but I don't see it as such after the weekend.

I like Henderson / Beirne as options for 5.5. Henderson if you are chasing a game, Beirne if you are looking to shut a game down. I'm not sure Schmidt considers either a back row option but I think it provides a lot of interesting versatility and Toner / Ryan are proven 80 minute players.

The rest of the team picks itself. Bundee can feel hard done by, I think Robbie wins that battle by having played with Ringrose a lot more frequently. There are plenty of close enough calls but that's what it looks like currently to me.

Very hard to argue against Jack Conan somewhere in that 23. He really is playing very well this season and has moved up a gear in the knock out's.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

That would be my team and bench.



The only question is if Joe will reward form and start with Conan. If Beirne travels then he can play in the other games.

He really needs to reward Conans form, we spent a whole six nations watching out of form players - in the hope they would improve - they didnt , you need to pick on form

Shefwedfan

kingofthekong wrote: »

You say based on current form and then pick O'mahony loool
Based on current form he should be playing for Munster 'A'

mY Backrow would be: Conan, VDY , Beirne

I like the way saracens did that with Leinster in the final and picked 3 second rows

Standar is a very good 6 and is also very capable of nicking the odd ball on the ground.



He would be playing 6 if Heaslip was still around so it is a natural fit.



Beirne can be used for the other groups games but unless he improves very very quickly he is not able to cope in the bigger match's

kingofthekong

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Standar is a very good 6 and is also very capable of nicking the odd ball on the ground.



He would be playing 6 if Heaslip was still around so it is a natural fit.



Beirne can be used for the other groups games but unless he improves very very quickly he is not able to cope in the bigger match's

we wont get to the bigger matches if O'mahony is playing he was a complete passenger for most of this season bar the allblacks game,

His lineout work isnt enough to counteract his zero metres made in contact, weak tackling, low tackle counts, low carry counts,

Leinster did just fine against this alleged lineout machine and so will Ireland without him, he got the whole of the six nations to prove his worth and didnt,

He also got the whole of the european cup and went silent in the big games.

The gamble on Beirne or henderson at 6 is worth it imo

troyzer

kingofthekong wrote: »

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Standar is a very good 6 and is also very capable of nicking the odd ball on the ground.



He would be playing 6 if Heaslip was still around so it is a natural fit.



Beirne can be used for the other groups games but unless he improves very very quickly he is not able to cope in the bigger match's

we wont get to the bigger matches if O'mahony is playing he was a complete passenger for most of this season bar the allblacks game,

His lineout work isnt enough to counteract his zero metres made in contact, weak tackling, low tackle counts, low carry counts,

Leinster did just fine against this alleged lineout machine and so will Ireland without him, he got the whole of the six nations to prove his worth and didnt,

He also got the whole of the european cup and went silent in the big games.

The gamble on Beirne or henderson at 6 is worth it imo

I think you're being a little too strong in your criticism but ultimately if you didn't have to worry about the past or captaincy, I don't think anyone would honestly pick POM.

Cue the Munster fans throwing out MOTM mentions like they mean something.

kingofthekong

troyzer wrote: »

I think you're being a little too strong in your criticism but ultimately if you didn't have to worry about the past or captaincy, I don't think anyone would honestly pick POM.

Cue the Munster fans throwing out MOTM mentions like they mean something.

I think the preciousness over past achievements is what will get us knocked out of the World Cup

O'mahony wouldnt be in any of the other top 5teams in the worlds backrows - why he should feature in ours is beyond me

aloooof

troyzer wrote: »

I think you're being a little too strong in your criticism but ultimately if you didn't have to worry about the past or captaincy, I don't think anyone would honestly pick POM.

Cue the Munster fans throwing out MOTM mentions like they mean something.

There's a reason this is considered. It would be completely foolish to pick solely based on form.

kingofthekong

aloooof wrote: »

There's a reason this is considered. It would be completely foolish to pick solely based on form.

tell me how that helped in the six nations or in any games against top teams for munster?

troyzer

aloooof wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

I think you're being a little too strong in your criticism but ultimately if you didn't have to worry about the past or captaincy, I don't think anyone would honestly pick POM.

Cue the Munster fans throwing out MOTM mentions like they mean something.

There's a reason this is considered. It would be completely foolish to pick solely based on form.

It would also be completely foolish to keep starting players who are worse than the bench options. We tried this during the Six Nations. Murray should not have been started after the Italy game and Sexton should have been hooked much sooner against Wales.

I agree that Joe's lack of trust means that we're unlikely to see POM dropped. But he really should be. He just doesn't offer enough consistently.

kingofthekong

One of the main issues Ireland faced in the six nations was when CJ got stopped behind the gainline

When CJ was stopped, the next ball carrier was O'brien or Murphy or O'mahony all of those are very average ball carriers,

And thus we couldnt make the gainline and didnt threaten the top teams in the six nations and wont in the world cup,

Sexton got a lot of heat for his performance and some of it was justified - but when your forward pack arent making the gainline your constantly facing a rushing defence and have a fraction of the time to make decisions,

The reason we did poorely in the six nations was lack of physicality up front - Peter o'mahonys alledged leadership qualities came to sweet damn all when your pack is getting smashed by Wales and England,

Looking back over the season there is one thing which I keep coming back to and that's Dan Leavy.

I wonder how much of a catalyst he was to both Leinster and Ireland's success last season. The days he played really well coincided with some of our best performances in Green and Blue.

Shefwedfan

kingofthekong wrote: »

we wont get to the bigger matches if O'mahony is playing he was a complete passenger for most of this season bar the allblacks game,

His lineout work isnt enough to counteract his zero metres made in contact, weak tackling, low tackle counts, low carry counts,

Leinster did just fine against this alleged lineout machine and so will Ireland without him, he got the whole of the six nations to prove his worth and didnt,

He also got the whole of the european cup and went silent in the big games.

The gamble on Beirne or henderson at 6 is worth it imo

I don't disagree with you about POM. What you are saying is correct. But and it is a big BUT.....people will fire out he got MOM against Italy. Also on another forum I was told straight out by a huge percentage of fans that POM was Ireland best player in 6 nations and is now undroppable....:eek:



Beirne could have been option at 6 except he hasn't played all season in that position so that would mean Ireland dont see him as a 6


Plus we have plenty of options in back row without trying to shove in Beirne.....

Shefwedfan

Deleted User wrote: »

Looking back over the season there is one thing which I keep coming back to and that's Dan Leavy.

I wonder how much of a catalyst he was to both Leinster and Ireland's success last season. The days he played really well coincided with some of our best performances in Green and Blue.

He is a huge loss. He could fight on group for the ball but could also carry. He was a huge help to Standar at 8 with carrying.....

troyzer

Deleted User wrote: »

Looking back over the season there is one thing which I keep coming back to and that's Dan Leavy.

I wonder how much of a catalyst he was to both Leinster and Ireland's success last season. The days he played really well coincided with some of our best performances in Green and Blue.

He's a huge blow to our chances. Having said that, Leinster extended him the other day. So maybe it's not all doom and gloom with talks of a career ender?

Or maybe they're just doing right by him and giving him time. I have no idea what the prognosis is, we'll probably find out tonight.

kingofthekong

When Ireland were succesful it was because of the ferocity of the carrying players and the gainline in attack they were able to make,

We battered the all blacks upfront with an Intensity that would beat anyone in the world,

The six nations we got smashed upfront and thus the whole team suffered,

We need our inform best players playing and o'mahoiny isnt it and neither is O'brien

Shefwedfan

troyzer wrote: »

He's a huge blow to our chances. Having said that, Leinster extended him the other day. So maybe it's not all doom and gloom with talks of a career ender?

Or maybe they're just doing right by him and giving him time. I have no idea what the prognosis is, we'll probably find out tonight.

Let him be, really I would prefer if they don't ask. Just wish him well and move on to something different. Don't see why we should be asking about injuries, especially when serious and want to know the details.....

kingofthekong

He'll be on the Joe.ie live show i the next few weeks where he can speak for himself

Shefwedfan

kingofthekong wrote: »

When Ireland were succesful it was because of the ferocity of the carrying players and the gainline in attack they were able to make,

We battered the all blacks upfront with an Intensity that would beat anyone in the world,

The six nations we got smashed upfront and thus the whole team suffered,

We need our inform best players playing and o'mahoiny isnt it and neither is O'brien

SOB has shown some good form recently. I still wouldnt start him.



I think he is actually a great option of the bench. Team will be tired and he will be fully fit.


I just dont think he is fit for a full 80 mins against a Tier 1 international team anymore. But give him 20 mins against a tired Tier 1 team and that is a different ball game.....

troyzer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

He's a huge blow to our chances. Having said that, Leinster extended him the other day. So maybe it's not all doom and gloom with talks of a career ender?

Or maybe they're just doing right by him and giving him time. I have no idea what the prognosis is, we'll probably find out tonight.

Let him be, really I would prefer if they don't ask. Just wish him well and move on to something different. Don't see why we should be asking about injuries, especially when serious and want to know the details.....

I agree. I do think the contract extension throws a little wrinkle in there. If there's good news you'd imagine he'd want to share it.

It's certainly not something I'd ask about, I hope he's looked after either way

aloooof

kingofthekong wrote: »

tell me how that helped in the six nations or in any games against top teams for munster?

All I'm saying is that no sports team in the world picks there whole 1-15 (or 1-11, or 1-whatever) based on form. And there's a reason for that. I'm not calling for or against POM's inclusion or exclusion by saying that. You have to get the balance right.

jm08

troyzer wrote: »

I think you're being a little too strong in your criticism but ultimately if you didn't have to worry about the past or captaincy, I don't think anyone would honestly pick POM.

Cue the Munster fans throwing out MOTM mentions like they mean something.

How come POM was a nominee for Player's Player of the Year (along with Ryan, Beirne and Jack Carthy)?

kingofthekong

aloooof wrote: »

All I'm saying is that no sports team in the world picks there whole 1-15 (or 1-11, or 1-whatever) based on form. And there's a reason for that. I'm not calling for or against POM's inclusion or exclusion by saying that. You have to get the balance right.

Agreed and the balance wasnt correct in the 6 nations

kingofthekong

jm08 wrote: »

How come POM was a nominee for Player's Player of the Year (along with Ryan, Beirne and Jack Carthy)?

hes also gotten some token MOM performances for just having the name POM