Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

troyzer

bilston wrote: »

Looks like a 12 month deal for Kearney.

It makes sense for the simple reason he is still Ireland's best full back, never mind Leinster's.

That said we need to find an alternative sooner rather than later. Be that Larmour or someone else.

I'd be interested in seeing more of Stockdale there. It'll be really tough to squeeze him and Lowe in unless Stockdale moves to fullback.

Squidgy Black

troyzer wrote: »

I'd be interested in seeing more of Stockdale there. It'll be really tough to squeeze him and Lowe in unless Stockdale moves to fullback.

Earls is 31, soon to be 32 and only contracted up until 2021.

By the time Lowe becomes IQ towards the end of 2020, there'll have been plenty of changes in the squad in terms of personnel more than likely, especially considering it'll be the 6N in 2021 before he'll first get a game as he arrived half way through the November Internationals

troyzer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

I'd be interested in seeing more of Stockdale there. It'll be really tough to squeeze him and Lowe in unless Stockdale moves to fullback.

Earls is 31, soon to be 32 and only contracted up until 2021.

By the time Lowe becomes IQ towards the end of 2020, there'll have been plenty of changes in the squad in terms of personnel more than likely, especially considering it'll be the 6N in 2021 before he'll first get a game as he arrived half way through the November Internationals

Lowe is a left wing though and I see Larmour on the right going forward if fullback doesn't work out.

Wegians89

troyzer wrote: »

Lowe is a left wing though and I see Larmour on the right going forward if fullback doesn't work out.

Stockdale at 15 and Lowe and larmour on the wings sounds mouth watering

troyzer

Wegians89 wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Lowe is a left wing though and I see Larmour on the right going forward if fullback doesn't work out.

Stockdale at 15 and Lowe and larmour on the wings sounds mouth watering

That's what I'm thinking of. That would be the best back three in world rugby with another year or two development from Stockdale and Larmour.

Utah_Saint

troyzer wrote: »

That's what I'm thinking of. That would be the best back three in world rugby with another year or two development from Stockdale and Larmour.

Not sure I fancy Stockdale at fullback...I know he's played there a few times but he's pretty much been Irelands best wing ever in a few short years. I wouldn't want to upset that to squeeze in others. Stockdale has the attributes to be a great fullback but at the moment he's a world class wing...

The Parish King

I know it’s probably well known at this stage, but the training squad is due to be announced this afternoon.

No details of squad size have been announced yet, but Nucifora did mention 45+ in an interview last week (seems slightly excessive compared to other nations’, but I’m sure it fits with Joe’s master plan!).

Former Former

Wegians89 wrote: »

Stockdale at 15 and Lowe and larmour on the wings sounds mouth watering

Well, there would be plenty of tries anyway. Problem is they'd be going in both directions.

JJJackal

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

He's came up here a lot. He is IQ and has represented Ireland at under 19. Dont see him coming here. He is not 24 until later n the year but cant see him being tempted over when he gets enough game time over there

Which province would he get game time at?

Leinster X (Sexton, Byrne)
Munster X (Carberry, Hanrahan, Bleyendaal)
Connacht X (Carty, Fitzgerald, Horwitz)
Ulster possible (Burns, Johnston, McPhillips, Curtis)

So he would offer competition to Carty at Connacht and could challenge Burns and McPhillips in Ulster (both of whom were probably in similar situations to Sheedy in terms of IQ)

Jump_In_Jack

The Parish King wrote: »

I know it’s probably well known at this stage, but the training squad is due to be announced this afternoon.

No details of squad size have been announced yet, but Nucifora did mention 45+ in an interview last week (seems slightly excessive compared to other nations’, but I’m sure it fits with Joe’s master plan!).

It was Gerry Thornley that stated it would be a preliminary squad of 45-plus.
He's usually on the ball with these things.
It makes sense to me, injuries could occur in training or in the warm-ups, and we need to have a few players on standby to come in, it's totally unpredictable what position may become a problem position, for example, not long ago we had Leavy, O'Brien, Van der Flier and Jordi Murphy all vying for the openside flanker position, then we had to put CJ Stander there in the 6 Nations.

Former Former

Yeah Joe had previously said the first squad would be 45, but there's nothing to stop him naming more or fewer players if he feels like it.

Squidgy Black

2015 squad was 45 players

andymx11

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2019/05/28/ireland-training-squad-announced-for-rugby-world-cup-pre-season/

Forwards (24)
Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht) 9 caps
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 117 caps
Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Munster) 5 caps
Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 14 caps
Sean Cronin (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 68 caps
Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht) 14 caps
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 33 caps
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 88 caps
Iain Henderson (Queens University/Ulster) 44 caps
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 7 caps
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 29 caps
Jean Kleyn (Munster) 0 caps
Jack McGrath (St Marys College/Leinster) 54 caps
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Ulster) 27 caps
Tommy O’Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster) 12 caps
Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 57 caps
Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 14 caps
Rhys Ruddock (Lansdowne/Leinster) 21 caps
James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 17 caps
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 18 caps
Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 14 caps
CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 31 caps
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 64 caps
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 17 caps

Backs (20)
Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 17 caps
Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster) 2 caps
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Munster) 18 caps
Jack Carty (Buccaneers/Connacht) 3 caps
Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 12 caps
John Cooney (Terenure College/Ulster) 8 caps
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 77 caps
Chris Farrell (Young Munster/Munster) 5 caps
Mike Haley (Munster) 0 caps
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster) 37 caps
Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster) 17 caps
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 90 caps
Jordan Larmour (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 13 caps
Kieran Marmion (Galwegians/Connacht) 25 caps
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster) 10 caps
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 72 caps
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 20 caps
Rory Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 3 caps
Jonathan Sexton (St Marys College/Leinster) 83 caps
Jacob Stockdale (Lurgan/Ulster) 19 caps

Unavailable due to injury
Dan Leavy (Leinster)
Sean O’Brien (Leinster)

aloooof

Presumably with Jean Kleyn being included, he's qualified to play in the warm-up games?

thomond2006

Ireland Training Squad Rugby World Cup Pre-Season
Forwards (24)

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 117 caps
Sean Cronin (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 68 caps
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 7 caps
Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 14 caps

Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 88 caps
Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 29 caps
Jack McGrath (St Marys College/Leinster) 54 caps

Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht) 9 caps
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 33 caps
Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 14 caps
John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 18 caps

Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Munster) 5 caps
Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht) 14 caps
Iain Henderson (Queens University/Ulster) 44 caps
Jean Kleyn (Munster) 0 caps
James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 17 caps
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 64 caps

Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 14 caps
Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Ulster) 27 caps
Tommy O’Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster) 12 caps
Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 57 caps
Rhys Ruddock (Lansdowne/Leinster) 21 caps
CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 31 caps
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 17 caps

Backs (20)

John Cooney (Terenure College/Ulster) 8 caps
Kieran Marmion (Galwegians/Connacht) 25 caps
Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster) 10 caps
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 72 caps

Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster) 2 caps
Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Munster) 18 caps
Jack Carty (Buccaneers/Connacht) 3 caps
Jonathan Sexton (St Marys College/Leinster) 83 caps

Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 17 caps
Chris Farrell (Young Munster/Munster) 5 caps
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster) 37 caps
Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 20 caps
Rory Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 3 caps

Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 12 caps
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 77 caps
Mike Haley (Munster) 0 caps
Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster) 17 caps
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 90 caps
Jordan Larmour (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 13 caps
Jacob Stockdale (Lurgan/Ulster) 19 caps

Unavailable due to injury
Dan Leavy (Leinster)
Sean O’Brien (Leinster)

errlloyd

Dave Kearney probably being rewarded for a good year, but I'd say there are a lot of players who think they're better than him.

Sweetman, Balacoun, ROL, Niyi, Healy, Toh, Gilroy, A Byrne,

Exclamation Marc

From first sight, looks like Will Addison and McCloskey are the most obvious omissions.

Wegians89

aloooof wrote: »

Presumably with Jean Kleyn being included, he's qualified to play in the warm-up games?

Not qualified until September apparently

andymx11

Tom Farrell maybe could have had a sniff to get the experience

Jump_In_Jack

Ireland Training Squad Rugby World Cup Pre-Season

Position Forwards (24)
PL Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 88 caps
PL Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 29 caps
PL Jack McGrath (St Marys College/Leinster) 54 caps
H Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 117 caps
H Sean Cronin (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 68 caps
H Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 14 caps
H Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 7 caps
PT Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 33 caps
PT John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 18 caps
PT Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 14 caps
PT Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht) 9 caps
L James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 17 caps
L Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 64 caps
L Iain Henderson (Queens University/Ulster) 44 caps
L Tadhg Beirne (Lansdowne/Munster) 5 caps
L Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht) 14 caps
L Jean Kleyn (Munster) 0 caps
BF Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 57 caps
BF Rhys Ruddock (Lansdowne/Leinster) 21 caps
OF Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 17 caps
OF Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Ulster) 27 caps
OF Tommy O’Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster) 12 caps
N8 CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 31 caps
N8 Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 14 caps

Backs (20)
S Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 72 caps
S Kieran Marmion (Galwegians/Connacht) 25 caps
S John Cooney (Terenure College/Ulster) 8 caps
S Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster) 10 caps
O Jonathan Sexton (St Marys College/Leinster) 83 caps
O Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Munster) 18 caps
O Jack Carty (Buccaneers/Connacht) 3 caps
O Ross Byrne (UCD/Leinster) 2 caps
C Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 17 caps
C Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 20 caps
C Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster) 37 caps
C Chris Farrell (Young Munster/Munster) 5 caps
C Rory Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 3 caps
W Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 77 caps
W Jacob Stockdale (Lurgan/Ulster) 19 caps
W Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 12 caps
W Jordan Larmour (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 13 caps
W Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster) 17 caps
F Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 90 caps
F Mike Haley (Munster) 0 caps

Former Former

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

From first sight, looks like Will Addison and McCloskey are the most obvious omissions.

Quinn Roux a bigger omission than either IMO.

mystic86

All of the starting 15 for Munster in the Pro 14 semi final are named, apart from Botha, presumably not eligible or whatever.

If they are naming the whole team I am a bit surprised they didn't call up Jack O'Donoghue for a look at him in camp.

Mike Haley is a head scratcher. Surely that Ulster lad Michael Lowry is a million miles better.

bilston

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

From first sight, looks like Will Addison and McCloskey are the most obvious omissions.

Not sure if it's just an oversight but Addison is and has been injured for a while but isn't included in the injured list.

Former Former

All in all, a pretty uncontroversial selection but naming 45 players means you don't have to be controversial. Slightly surprised to see Haley in there, he doesn't look international quality to me but otherwise as expected.

AbusesToilets

Former Former wrote: »

Quinn Roux a bigger omission than either IMO.

He's been a Joe mainstay for sometime. Underrated imo.

Clegg

errlloyd wrote: »

Dave Kearney probably being rewarded for a good year, but I'd say there are a lot of players who think they're better than him.

Sweetman, Balacoun, ROL, Niyi, Healy, Toh, Gilroy, A Byrne,

Gilroy and Byrne are injured. And Kearney is better than the rest. He's criminally underrated.

Clegg

Neither Haley or Kleyn will make the world cup squad. But it's good to have them there so they'll have some familiarity with calls if they're called up to replace someone.

Jump_In_Jack

Named 44 players,

Bealham deserves his call up,
O'Donnell, Scannell and Haley are surprises.

O'Donnell getting in ahead of the likes of O'Donoghue and Deegan.
Scannell getting in ahead of Tom Farrell and McCloskey.
Haley getting in ahead of O'Halloran.

Not surprised with Dave Kearney getting called up, I think he adds value to the squad, but all the same probably unlucky for Darren Sweetnam, Robert Baloucoune or Matt Healy as they are the next best in line after Kearney in my view.

I think Roux is still recovering from a virus, Addison hasn't played rugby for a few months since back surgery and Adam Byrne and Gilroy are both injured.

KBurke85

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Bealham deserves his call up,
O'Donnell, Scannell and Haley are surprises.

O'Donnell getting in ahead of the likes of O'Donoghue and Deegan.
Scannell getting in ahead of Tom Farrell and McCloskey.
Haley getting in ahead of O'Halloran.

Not surprised with Dave Kearney getting called up, I think he adds value to the squad, but all the same probably unlucky for Darren Sweetnam, Robert Baloucoune or Matt Healy as they are the next best in line after Kearney in my view.

I think Roux is still recovering from a virus, Addison hasn't played rugby for a few months since back surgery and Adam Byrne and Gilroy are both injured.

If fairness to O'Halloran I don't think he has been as good this season. when he was bang in form he wasn't making squads. With his form having dropped a bit It would be even more surprising to see him make the squad.

Wegians89

Like the six nations squad roux initially left out but I’d expect him to come in. Trusted by Schmidt and had been struggling with a virus the last few weeks of the season with Connacht, which mightn't have cleared up.

Would expect Addison and Adam Byrne to come in for Haley and Dave Kearney when fit.

Bit surprised Rory scannell has got in ahead of both mccloskey and Tom Farrell, who have both been better in the last few seasons in my opinion.

O donnell in is one of the bigger surprises for me. Has he played at all this year? I know there’s a bit of a crisis at 7 but surely other players who could cover 7 deserve it more (Deegan or even jack o donoghue have played in big games there)

Kevski

bilston wrote: »

Not sure if it's just an oversight but Addison is and has been injured for a while but isn't included in the injured list.

Looks like the injured list is more of a “ruled out of the World Cup due to injury” list. Addison should be available so that’s why he isn’t on it.

Wegians89

KBurke85 wrote: »

If fairness to O'Halloran I don't think he has been as good this season. when he was bang in form he wasn't making squads. With his form having dropped a bit It would be even more surprising to see him make the squad.

O halloran has been terrible for large parts of the season. Shouldn’t be in the conversation at all. Lowry would have been an interesting wildcard at 15 ahead of Haley

Squidgy Black

Wegians89 wrote: »

Like the six nations squad roux initially left out but I’d expect him to come in. Trusted by Schmidt and had been struggling with a virus the last few weeks of the season with Connacht, which mightn't have cleared up.

Would expect Addison and Adam Byrne to come in for Haley and Dave Kearney when fit.

Bit surprised Rory scannell has got in ahead of both mccloskey and Tom Farrell, who have both been better in the last few seasons in my opinion.

O donnell in is one of the bigger surprises for me. Has he played at all this year? I know there’s a bit of a crisis at 7 but surely other players who could cover 7 deserve it more (Deegan or even jack o donoghue have played in big games there)

I'd be amazed to see Adam Byrne come in for Dave Kearney, Dave has been in terrific form, and Byrne was ruled out injured for the rest of the season.

Mr Tickle

Wegians89 wrote: »

Not qualified until September apparently

Does he have to be eligible to play in the warm up games? Or are they purely at the discretion of the teams involved?

Jump_In_Jack

Wegians89 wrote: »

O halloran has been terrible for large parts of the season. Shouldn’t be in the conversation at all. Lowry would have been an interesting wildcard at 15 ahead of Haley

Lowry is too short at 5'7" for international level fullback I'd say, he is great at running with the ball but could see him being an easy target in the air.
Haley is 6'3" and has had some impressive performances, although the missed tackle against Lowe and subsequently marching off the pitch before the conversion was a low point.

Edit - apparently he left the field to get medical attention to his eye, fair enough.

errlloyd

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Does he have to be eligible to play in the warm up games? Or are they purely at the discretion of the teams involved?

Pretty sure they're capped matches, so pretty sure he has to be eligible.

Jump_In_Jack

Schmidt
"Some players have missed out through injury and there are one or two guys that may be added into the squad at a later stage."

I presume that means Addison and Roux to possibly come back into it once they are available.

Pudsy33

JGP is qualified by the time the World Cup comes around, right?

Wegians89

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Lowry is too short for international level fullback I'd say, he is great at running with the ball but could see him being an easy target in the air.
Haley is 6'3" and has had some impressive performances, although the missed tackle against Lowe and subsequently marching off the pitch before the conversion was a low point.

Damian McKenzie was told he’s too small too, gives a very different option that probably won’t suit Schmidt but would be very exciting anyways.

Genuinely haven’t seen anything impressive with Haley, saying that haven’t watched every single match he’s played in but he seems prone to mistakes.

Jump_In_Jack

Wegians89 wrote: »

Damian McKenzie was told he’s too small too, gives a very different option that probably won’t suit Schmidt but would be very exciting anyways.

Genuinely haven’t seen anything impressive with Haley, saying that haven’t watched every single match he’s played in but he seems prone to mistakes.

McKenzie is 5'10" (same as Larmour), borderline, whereas 5'7" is definitely not tall enough I would imagine.

Lowry should concentrate on outhalf, I think he could be special in that position, or would he look at scrumhalf?

Wegians89

Ruaidhi o Connor now saying klyen could be eligible from mid August, hasn’t been able to clarify it yet

Former Former

Re: injured players. There won't actually be any training done until late June or July, so unless a guy is absolutely wrecked, he would have been named.

e.g. Toner is out for 4-6 weeks and is named. O'Donnell hasn't played in months and is named. You'd have to figure guys like Roux and Addison are just left out.

Squidgy Black

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

McKenzie is 5'10" (same as Larmour), borderline, whereas 5'7" is definitely not tall enough I would imagine.

Lowry should concentrate on outhalf, I think he could be special in that position, or would he look at scrumhalf?

Doubt he'd look at scrumhalf, he's never played there. He's the same height as Cheslin Kolbe.

Burkie1203

Former Former wrote: »

Re: injured players. There won't actually be any training done until late June or July, so unless a guy is absolutely wrecked, he would have been named.

e.g. Toner is out for 4-6 weeks and is named. O'Donnell hasn't played in months and is named. You'd have to figure guys like Roux and Addison are just left out.

Squad meets up June 16th

Who will be the big omission from the 31 to travel?

And who will be the unexpected one who travels?

I think Jack Mc and Ross Byrne

Utah_Saint

Ulster Viewpoint : Expect Addison to come in when fit. Probably a year too early for Balaucoune, Lyttle and Lowry

I think Joe made it clear a few years back that McCloskey is not his type of player....so not really surprised even though he's had another great season.

**Stu McCloskey's Pro14 2019 Stats**

Carries - 170 (highest for Irish Centre)
Defenders Beaten - 41 (highest for Irish Centre)
Offloads - 19 (probably the stat the snookered him - Only other irish Centre with more is T Farrell)
Clean Breaks - 13 (highest for Irish Centre)
Metres Made - 654 (highest for Irish Centre)
Turnovers won - 13 (highest for Irish Centre - only two less than Beirne on 15)

Utah_Saint

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Ulster Viewpoint : Expect Addison to come in when fit. Probably a year too early for Balaucoune, Lyttle and Lowry

I think Joe made it clear a few years back that McCloskey is not his type of player....so not really surprised even though he's had another great season.

**Stu McCloskey's Pro14 2019 Stats**

Carries - 170 (highest for Irish Centre)
Defenders Beaten - 41 (highest for Irish Centre)
Offloads - 19 (probably the stat the snookered him - Only other irish Centre with more is T Farrell)
Clean Breaks - 13 (highest for Irish Centre)
Metres Made - 654 (highest for Irish Centre)
Turnovers won - 13 (highest for Irish Centre - only two less than Beirne on 15)

While impressive, stats can be misleading.

Those stats are cumulative rather than per game versus other centers.

Better centers arguably play less due to being called up to irish camps.
Better centers arguably play only against top opposition.

Utah_Saint

Deleted User wrote: »

While impressive, stats can be misleading.

Those stats are cumulative rather than per game versus other centers.

Better centers arguably play less due to being called up to irish camps.
Better centers arguably play only against top opposition.

I agree....I was looking at them on the Pro14 site out of interest and thought it was worthwhile sharing. I can't really call for Stu over Scannell as although they are both 12's they are different styles. Scannell also offers a kicking threat...

Dubinusa

McCloskey being omitted is surprising. He had a great year. I think he's the type of player that can cause problems for teams like S.A.
I also think Deegan should have made the cut. T.O.D has played so little and is not a consistantly starter at Munster.
I would have selected Treadwell over Kleyn. I think he's a better player.
The training squad is not set in stone? I hope not!
There's some lads not selected who must be very disappointed.

guapos

What do you think the make up of the squad will be by position ?

5 props
3 hookers
4 2nd rows
5 back rows

3 scrum halves
3 outhalves (carbery to cover fb )
4 centres
4 back 3

Squad size should really be increased.