Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

Shefwedfan

sydthebeat wrote: »

No Kleyn or Beirne.... Dillane cut and Roux not in squad

so whos your 4th lock?

Kleyn/Beirne/Ruddock etc would not be in the squad yet...in my opinion.....


One will travel but that will depend on who performs the best over these games

bilston

Squad as I see it

18/13 split

Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne, Furlong, Ryan, Porter
Best, Cronin, Scannell
Toner, Ryan, Henderson, Beirne
O'Mahony, Van Der Flier, Murphy, Stander, Conan

Murray, Marmion, Cooney
Sexton, Carbery
Ali, Henshaw, Ringrose
Stockdale, Earls, Kearney, Larmour
Addison

Herring could push for a spot, but right now is 4th in the list.

I've gone for Beirne over Kleyn just because he is most integrated in the squad, that could change over the next few weeks.

Murphy gets the nod over Ruddock for versatility reasons

Cooney gets in ahead of McGrath because he is a better passer and in theory anyway can play 10, although that isn't really a big factor for me. Either could go and it wouldn't be a scandal.

The final backs spot is a toss up between Farrell, Conway and Addison. Addison's ability to play 13, 15 and wing gets him the nod for me.

Shefwedfan

bilston wrote: »

Squad as I see it

18/13 split

Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne, Furlong, Ryan, Porter
Best, Cronin, Scannell
Toner, Ryan, Henderson, Beirne
O'Mahony, Van Der Flier, Murphy, Stander, Conan

Murray, Marmion, Cooney
Sexton, Carbery
Ali, Henshaw, Ringrose
Stockdale, Earls, Kearney, Larmour
Addison

Herring could push for a spot, but right now is 4th in the list.

I've gone for Beirne over Kleyn just because he is most integrated in the squad, that could change over the next few weeks.

Murphy gets the nod over Ruddock for versatility reasons

Cooney gets in ahead of McGrath because he is a better passer and in theory anyway can play 10, although that isn't really a big factor for me. Either could go and it wouldn't be a scandal.

The final backs spot is a toss up between Farrell, Conway and Addison. Addison's ability to play 13, 15 and wing gets him the nod for me.

Jack McGrath needs a big game tomorrow or he could be on a thigh rope for the squad but I expect him to nail his place. He is quality and he has had time to recover now from injury

I think Joe will only bring Murray and Marmion. Then bring Sexton, Carberry and Carty. The fact team will pinpoint Sexton is why I think this might happen.

Addison I think is best option but his injury record will go against him, I could see a Conway maybe pushing for that spot. Again needs big game tomorrow.

Kilcoyne pulled his hamstring apparently

salmocab

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Kilcoyne pulled his hamstring apparently

What sort of prop pulls a hamstring? He should be ran out of camp.

ionadnapokot

bilston wrote: »

Squad as I see it

18/13 split

Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne, Furlong, Ryan, Porter
Best, Cronin, Scannell
Toner, Ryan, Henderson, Beirne
O'Mahony, Van Der Flier, Murphy, Stander, Conan

Murray, Marmion, Cooney
Sexton, Carbery
Ali, Henshaw, Ringrose
Stockdale, Earls, Kearney, Larmour
Addison

Herring could push for a spot, but right now is 4th in the list.

I've gone for Beirne over Kleyn just because he is most integrated in the squad, that could change over the next few weeks.

Murphy gets the nod over Ruddock for versatility reasons

Cooney gets in ahead of McGrath because he is a better passer and in theory anyway can play 10, although that isn't really a big factor for me. Either could go and it wouldn't be a scandal.

The final backs spot is a toss up between Farrell, Conway and Addison. Addison's ability to play 13, 15 and wing gets him the nod for me.

Pretty sure it’s going to be 17 Forwards - only 2 LH

The Lost Sheep

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Pretty sure it’s going to be 17 Forwards - only 2 LH

and extra back position being? I'd see 3 LHs being necessary as with 2 needed every game dont want to risk late injury and risk around that.

ionadnapokot

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Pretty sure it’s going to be 17 Forwards - only 2 LH

and extra back position being? I'd see 3 LHs being necessary as with 2 needed every game dont want to risk late injury and risk around that.

Farrell
Im basing LH on 2015 squad

Jump_In_Jack

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

and extra back position being? I'd see 3 LHs being necessary as with 2 needed every game dont want to risk late injury and risk around that.

Furlong, Porter, Ryan and Bealham can all play loose-head if required.
Therefore we only need 2 dedicated loose-heads, Healy and one of Kilcoyne/McGrath.
We will certainly bring 3 tight-heads.

bilston

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Pretty sure it’s going to be 17 Forwards - only 2 LH

Well I wondered about that. But it's a gamble going with just 5 props.

I know it's all what ifs but imagine Healy twists his ankle against Scotland and is ruled out for 3 weeks. I don't think you'd want to replace him if he is going to be fit for the QF.

ionadnapokot

bilston wrote: »

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Pretty sure it’s going to be 17 Forwards - only 2 LH

Well I wondered about that. But it's a gamble going with just 5 props.

I know it's all what ifs but imagine Healy twists his ankle against Scotland and is ruled out for 3 weeks. I don't think you'd want to replace him if he is going to be fit for the QF.

There will be a bunch of heavy set Irish lads on the Holls in Asia!
Joe can weigh up replacing or waiting.
It seems that they prefer to risk gambling on the forwards rather than drafting in an outside back. Actually I dont think you can even replace an outside back with like. E.g Boss for Payne rwc 15. Just got a flash back of Earls at 13

Podge_irl

ionadnapokot wrote: »

There will be a bunch of heavy set Irish lads on the Holls in Asia!
Joe can weigh up replacing or waiting.
It seems that they prefer to risk gambling on the forwards rather than drafting in an outside back. Actually I dont think you can even replace an outside back with like. E.g Boss for Payne rwc 15. Just got a flash back of Earls at 13

You have to wait 48 hours after calling someone up before they can play either way.

ionadnapokot

Podge_irl wrote: »

You have to wait 48 hours after calling someone up before they can play either way.

Are you allowed replace an Outside back though?

salmocab

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Are you allowed replace an Outside back though?

Of course you can. Anyone injured can be replaced you can replace an injured 10 with a lock if you want.

Podge_irl

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Are you allowed replace an Outside back though?

You can make up your squad however you want (front row requirements excepted). We were light on scrum halves last time out and there was no immediate obvious replacement for Payne - Boss became a scrum half and emergency outside back instead of Madigan being a fly half and emergency scrum half.

ionadnapokot

salmocab wrote: »

Of course you can. Anyone injured can be replaced you can replace an injured 10 with a lock if you want.

yes replace a half back. But i cant find anything on replacing an outside back

Podge_irl

ionadnapokot wrote: »

yes replace a half back. But i cant find anything on replacing an outside back

You can replace anyone with anyone. There are no restrictions whatsoever on the make up of your squad beyond the matchday front row requirements. There are no specialised positions in the law outside the front row - you are whatever position you line up in.

ionadnapokot

Podge_irl wrote: »

You can make up your squad however you want (front row requirements excepted). We were light on scrum halves last time out and there was no immediate obvious replacement for Payne - Boss became a scrum half and emergency outside back instead of Madigan being a fly half and emergency scrum half.

im confused is it not that you are allowed a certain amount of half backs and can replace them as necessary. but you are not allowed replace Payne with like because you can stick a winger in. i.e. They dont regard the outside backs as specialist positions
edit: i see your post above. Fair enough i never knew that.

molloyjh

ionadnapokot wrote: »

im confused is it not that you are allowed a certain amount of half backs and can replace them as necessary. but you are not allowed replace Payne with like because you can stick a winger in. i.e. They dont regard the outside backs as specialist positions

You're massively over complicating things here. Other than the front row there is nothing specified about any other position.

salmocab

ionadnapokot wrote: »

yes replace a half back. But i cant find anything on replacing an outside back

I should have used an outside back in my example to stop the confusion.

ionadnapokot

salmocab wrote: »

ionadnapokot wrote: »

yes replace a half back. But i cant find anything on replacing an outside back

I should have used an outside back in my example to stop the confusion.

That’s ok! My memory must be failing me. I had thought there used to be only certain positions you could replace. The Isaac Boss replacement is what had me confused.
Was Cave injured? edit: Ah!He was in the squad. Fitzgerald on the bench

Podge_irl

ionadnapokot wrote: »

That’s ok! My memory must be failing me. I had thought there used to be only certain positions you could replace. The Isaac Boss replacement is what had me confused.
Was Cave injured?

Nope, Schmidt just didn't rate him. I thought that was a mistake to be honest.

salmocab

ionadnapokot wrote: »

That’s ok! My memory must be failing me. I had thought there used to be only certain positions you could replace. The Isaac Boss replacement is what had me confused.
Was Cave injured?

Honestly can’t remember the circumstances of why Boss was chosen but I remember at the time there was some sense in it as it was at a point in the tournament where the ‘Dirt tracker games’ were done and we had only 2 scrum halves anyway so from a squad point of view if we lost say Murray we wouldn’t need to replace him if boss was there giving him a possible week off for a potential semi final and possibly back for the final (fantasy with hindsight)

Former Former

Boss was only called up after the France game, along with Ruddock and McCarthy IIRC. It made sense at that point to call him up since Madigan was now first choice outhalf

aloooof

salmocab wrote: »

Honestly can’t remember the circumstances of why Boss was chosen but I remember at the time there was some sense in it as it was at a point in the tournament where the ‘Dirt tracker games’ were done and we had only 2 scrum halves anyway so from a squad point of view if we lost say Murray we wouldn’t need to replace him if boss was there giving him a possible week off for a potential semi final and possibly back for the final (fantasy with hindsight)

I think it may have been even simpler than that. Madigan was effectively the reserve 9 after Murray and Reddan. With Sexton picking up the injury in the France game we were down to 4 half-backs: Murray, Reddan, Madigan and Jackson. If Madigan was considered to be covering 9 (however unlikely him getting time there was going to be) it's unbalanced, so they needed Madigan as a dedicated 10.

They gave Sexton every chance of playing the Argentina game (he was only ruled out the day before) and at that point Boss had been called up. If we had progressed, they then could have decided on whether to give Sexton more time or replace him with another 10.

They also obviously thought they had enough midfield cover with Earls and Luke Fitz.

EDIT: Former Former said it much more succinctly.

thomond2006

All we need to know is Ireland needs Hayes.

ionadnapokot

bilston wrote: »

Squad as I see it

18/13 split

Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne, Furlong, Ryan, Porter
Best, Cronin, Scannell
Toner, Ryan, Henderson, Beirne
O'Mahony, Van Der Flier, Murphy, Stander, Conan

Murray, Marmion, Cooney
Sexton, Carbery
Ali, Henshaw, Ringrose
Stockdale, Earls, Kearney, Larmour
Addison

Herring could push for a spot, but right now is 4th in the list.

I've gone for Beirne over Kleyn just because he is most integrated in the squad, that could change over the next few weeks.

Murphy gets the nod over Ruddock for versatility reasons

Cooney gets in ahead of McGrath because he is a better passer and in theory anyway can play 10, although that isn't really a big factor for me. Either could go and it wouldn't be a scandal.

The final backs spot is a toss up between Farrell, Conway and Addison. Addison's ability to play 13, 15 and wing gets him the nod for me.

In light of a startling revelation to me re: replacing injured players! You could be well right about the 18 forwards.
I’m now thinking that Kleyn might get the nod now! His bulk seems to be highly regarded. I’m second guessing allot of my squad now!

The Lost Sheep

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Furlong, Porter, Ryan and Bealham can all play loose-head if required.
Therefore we only need 2 dedicated loose-heads, Healy and one of Kilcoyne/McGrath.
We will certainly bring 3 tight-heads.

furlog cant really as hasn't done it in pro setting.
You would want more than

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Are you allowed replace an Outside back though?

you can replace anyone with anyone. Only restrictions are aa others have said with front rows.

Bazzo

Podge_irl wrote: »

Nope, Schmidt just didn't rate him. I thought that was a mistake to be honest.

It was nothing short of bizarre in hindsight. The world cup squad numbers are extremely tight so bringing him and shuffling things about rather than using him when there was an injury in his specialist position was madness. Fair enough if you don't rate him, why waste such a valuable squad position on him in that case though?

Former Former

The Cave selection was crazy. Joe never rated him, had no intention of playing him and I vividly remember dismissing the first rumours that he had been picked as absolute bollocks.

The only explanation I could come up with was that Kiss had been pushing his case after coaching him in Ulster.

Jump_In_Jack

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

furlog cant really as hasn't done it in pro setting.
You would want more than
you can replace anyone with anyone. Only restrictions are aa others have said with front rows.

Furlong did it for the last World Cup.

Podge_irl

Former Former wrote: »

The Cave selection was crazy. Joe never rated him, had no intention of playing him and I vividly remember dismissing the first rumours that he had been picked as absolute bollocks.

The only explanation I could come up with was that Kiss had been pushing his case after coaching him in Ulster.

Yeah, I think Joe is the greatest thing since sliced bread and that still stands out as utterly baffling. Why bother bringing him if you're not going to use him in his specialist position and instead do a big bloody merry go round of outside backs. The injury situation for the quarters couldn't be planned for but not using Cave in that situation having brought him was weird as all hell. It doesn't even matter what your personal view of Cave was (I though he was a pretty tidy 13), in that scenario nothing about what happened made sense.

clsmooth

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Furlong did it for the last World Cup.

Yeah but in no circumstance do you play the best TH in the world at LH. I reckon Porter might be asked to be the ambipropstrous one

Jump_In_Jack

clsmooth wrote: »

Yeah but in no circumstance do you play the best TH in the world at LH. I reckon Porter might be asked to be the ambipropstrous one

I was just pointing out how the 4 tight-heads could all cover over so we don’t need 3 loose-heads.
We can save one extra place for elsewhere.

I think at the moment it’s probably 3. Furlong, 18. Porter/Ryan (both can cover loose-head) and Bealham probably will only get in if there’s an injury, and might not even get a game in the warm-ups.

Clareman

I don't think you can compare 4 years ago with this World Cup in regards to selection, 4 years ago the team were ~1 hour away from home, same climate, same time zone, same language. This time around there's ~9 hours of a difference, loads of travel time different language. I think the squad this time will be picked taking into account how fast replacements can be brought in.

As was pointed out to me earlier Tom Court in a Lion because he was in Australia visiting family, Shane Williams was called up cause he was doing TV work, don't be surprised in a few lads happen to be over there on other assignments.

salmocab

Clareman wrote: »

I don't think you can compare 4 years ago with this World Cup in regards to selection, 4 years ago the team were ~1 hour away from home, same climate, same time zone, same language. This time around there's ~9 hours of a difference, loads of travel time different language. I think the squad this time will be picked taking into account how fast replacements can be brought in.

As was pointed out to me earlier Tom Court in a Lion because he was in Australia visiting family, Shane Williams was called up cause he was doing TV work, don't be surprised in a few lads happen to be over there on other assignments.

Other lads will be playing with their provinces during the world cup

Shefwedfan

Clareman wrote: »

I don't think you can compare 4 years ago with this World Cup in regards to selection, 4 years ago the team were ~1 hour away from home, same climate, same time zone, same language. This time around there's ~9 hours of a difference, loads of travel time different language. I think the squad this time will be picked taking into account how fast replacements can be brought in.

As was pointed out to me earlier Tom Court in a Lion because he was in Australia visiting family, Shane Williams was called up cause he was doing TV work, don't be surprised in a few lads happen to be over there on other assignments.

That only works in off season.....players who are not on panel will be in Pro 14 action in ireland....will also need to keep themselves match fit if they are required...

Squidgy Black

Clareman wrote: »

I don't think you can compare 4 years ago with this World Cup in regards to selection, 4 years ago the team were ~1 hour away from home, same climate, same time zone, same language. This time around there's ~9 hours of a difference, loads of travel time different language. I think the squad this time will be picked taking into account how fast replacements can be brought in.

As was pointed out to me earlier Tom Court in a Lion because he was in Australia visiting family, Shane Williams was called up cause he was doing TV work, don't be surprised in a few lads happen to be over there on other assignments.

Lions is a different scenario altogether. Players are either on summer tour with their nations (if there is a summer tour) or on holiday/off season. Pro14 players will be with their clubs and playing league games during the RWC, so you won't have players just sitting idle under the guise of holidays or training camps etc near Japan.

PTH2009

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Lions is a different scenario altogether. Players are either on summer tour with their nations (if there is a summer tour) or on holiday/off season. Pro14 players will be with their clubs and playing league games during the RWC, so you won't have players just sitting idle under the guise of holidays or training camps etc near Japan.

Pro 14 is only starting this season when the world cup is into the 2nd group games. Few pre season friendlies up til then starting in sep

errlloyd

If I recall correctly the world cup has a minimum time for replacements anyway. They can't join the squad for 48 hours from the call up or something? So really the only difference between being one hour away and 15 hours a way is jet lag. I'd say some of the guys in Ireland will be on an early mornings routine just in case the call comes.

Donnielighto

Healy McGrath Porter furlong Ryan
Best scannell Cronin
Toner Ryan hendo beirne
Pom stander vdf Conan Jordi
17
Murray marmion mcgrath/cooney
Sexton carberry carty/byrne
Aki henshaw ringrose
Stockdale larmour Kearney earls Conway/addison
14

That's the squad as I'd see it. I think the last 9 10 and back 3 position is up for grabs but have put who I think gets it in.

The Lost Sheep

errlloyd wrote: »

If I recall correctly the world cup has a minimum time for replacements anyway. They can't join the squad for 48 hours from the call up or something? So really the only difference between being one hour away and 15 hours a way is jet lag. I'd say some of the guys in Ireland will be on an early mornings routine just in case the call comes.

Yeah its 48 hours for all countries.
To make a change teams complete a form and send it to World Rugby.
Once signed off, the replacement is not allowed to play for 48 hours and the replacement is permanent

salmocab

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Yeah its 48 hours for all countries.
To make a change teams complete a form and send it to World Rugby.
Once signed off, the replacement is not allowed to play for 48 hours and the replacement is permanent

Is it not 48 hours before they can join up with the squad?

Mr Tickle

Donnielighto wrote: »

Healy McGrath Porter furlong Ryan
Best scannell Cronin
Toner Ryan hendo beirne
Pom stander vdf Conan Jordi
17
Murray marmion mcgrath/cooney
Sexton carberry carty/byrne
Aki henshaw ringrose
Stockdale larmour Kearney earls Conway/addison
14

That's the squad as I'd see it. I think the last 9 10 and back 3 position is up for grabs but have put who I think gets it in.

I think you're very close there. Maybe i see the last back row spot going to Ruddock or TOD (who i thought played very well at the weekend)

And i think the backs come down to a choice between taking 3 9's and Addison or two 9's and bringing Conway and Farrell.

Conway & Farrell are both better than Addison (i think) in their respective positions but if there's only one spot left i think we need the versatility.

Edit: I'd take Kilcoyne over McGrath too but now i feel like this looks very Munster biased.

Burkie1203

Mr Tickle wrote: »

I think you're very close there. Maybe i see the last back row spot going to Ruddock or TOD (who i thought played very well at the weekend)

And i think the backs come down to a choice between taking 3 9's and Addison or two 9's and bringing Conway and Farrell.

Conway & Farrell are both better than Addison (i think) in their respective positions but if there's only one spot left i think we need the versatility.

Edit: I'd take Kilcoyne over McGrath too but now i feel like this looks very Munster biased.

TOD tackled well i thought but we need better presence at the breakdown defensively so cant him getting near the 31 barring injury.

Kilcoyne isnt a bad shout. It's 50/50 IMO

Has Addison ever played 9 (the way Madigan had)

aloooof

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Edit: I'd take Kilcoyne over McGrath too but now i feel like this looks very Munster biased.

Kilcoyne seems to be the front-runner alright. He had a good season and overtook McGrath as sub LH for all of the 6 Nations so I think currently, he's more likely to get on the plane.

Mr Tickle

Burkie1203 wrote: »

TOD tackled well i thought but we need better presence at the breakdown defensively so cant him getting near the 31 barring injury.

I thought he was very good at supporting us going forward too. like when D Kearney kicked ahead and TOD and ringrose made the tackle behind their try line. That's the kind of hard work you like to see from a guy who wants to force his way into a team.

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Has Addison ever played 9 (the way Madigan had)

no but marmion covers wing so we're fine :pac:

Burkie1203

Carbery out for 6 weeks

That a tight deadline

Mr Tickle

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Carbery out for 6 weeks

That a tight deadline

damn
Well as long as that's a pessimistic estimate of when he'll be match ready then we're probably alright. The dilemma is how much can we risk using Sexton now.

Former Former

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Carbery out for 6 weeks

That a tight deadline

Balls. Well, at this early stage they can't be too precise, it could be four but equally it could be eight. He doesn't have the best track record of recovering early.

I guess we have to pick him and hope for the best.