Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

Burkie1203

Former Former wrote: »

Balls. Well, at this early stage they can't be too precise, it could be four but equally it could be eight. He doesn't have the best track record of recovering early.

I guess we have to pick him and hope for the best.

This throws up another dilemma. If he is borderline for the Scotland game, will we have to bring Carty/Byrne

We surely cannot have Cooney as back up 10 to Sexton for game 1
That "31 is a tight number" quote from Joe just got a bit tighter

aloooof

Former Former wrote: »

Balls. Well, at this early stage they can't be too precise, it could be four but equally it could be eight. He doesn't have the best track record of recovering early.

I guess we have to pick him and hope for the best.

Balls indeed. At least he did come back from injury for Munster just before Christmas and started playing really well immediately tho, so that's in his favour.

Mr Tickle

Burkie1203 wrote: »

This throws up another dilemma. If he is borderline for the Scotland game, will we have to bring Carty/Byrne

We surely cannot have Cooney as back up 10 to Sexton for game 1
That "31 is a tight number" quote from Joe just got a bit tighter

I think we were always going to go with three "real" 10's.
Cooney is only a real emergency option if there were a series of injuries in a game.

Sexton will play the lions share of the Scotland game. If Carbery is fit to bench then great. if not Carty is plenty capable. Then Carbery has three more weeks to get back up to speed.

Former Former

Burkie1203 wrote: »

This throws up another dilemma. If he is borderline for the Scotland game, will we have to bring Carty/Byrne

We surely cannot have Cooney as back up 10 to Sexton for game 1
That "31 is a tight number" quote from Joe just got a bit tighter

Comments from Joe plus the Andrew Porter switch on Saturday would seem to indicate he's only bringing five props, so that frees up a a spot elsewhere.

Personally, I'd bring two SHs and three OHs.

Burkie1203

Former Former wrote: »

Comments from Joe plus the Andrew Porter switch on Saturday would seem to indicate he's only bringing five props, so that frees up a a spot elsewhere.

Personally, I'd bring two SHs and three OHs.

My guess would be

Front row
Healy Kilcoyne Furlong Porter Ryan
Best Cronin Herring

2nd row
Toner Ryan Henderson Beirne

Back row
POM Stander VDF Jordi Conan

Half back
Murray Marmion Sexton Carbery Carty

Centre
Farrell Aki Henshaw Ringrose

Back 3
Kearney Earls Stockdale Conway Addison


Kilcoyne could lose out to Jack Mc
Beirne could lose out to Kleyn (I hope not as i think we need more of what Beirne brings as Henderson and Ryan bring plenty of grunt)

Addison I think could get in but travel with only 2 #9s is a risk. I wonder was Farrell at 12 with a view to one of the 4 centres missing the 31 to bring 18 forwards

Wegians89

Burkie1203 wrote: »

My guess would be

Front row
Healy Kilcoyne Furlong Porter Ryan
Best Cronin Herring

2nd row
Toner Ryan Henderson Beirne

Back row
POM Stander VDF Jordi Conan

Half back
Murray Marmion Sexton Carbery Carty

Centre
Farrell Aki Henshaw Ringrose

Back 3
Kearney Earls Stockdale Conway Addison


Kilcoyne could lose out to Jack Mc
Beirne could lose out to Kleyn (I hope not as i think we need more of what Beirne brings as Henderson and Ryan bring plenty of grunt)

Addison I think could get in but travel with only 2 #9s is a risk. I wonder was Farrell at 12 with a view to one of the 4 centres missing the 31 to bring 18 forwards

Larmour in ahead of Addison and then two from cooney, Farrell or Conway depending on how they want to split it. I’d probably go cooney and Farrell if Ringrose and/or henshaw get game time in the back three during warm ups

Burkie1203

Wegians89 wrote: »

Larmour in ahead of Addison and then two from cooney, Farrell or Conway depending on how they want to split it. I’d probably go cooney and Farrell if Ringrose and/or henshaw get game time in the back three during warm ups

There is going to be one or two surprise selections. I think Larmour might miss out

aloooof

Burkie1203 wrote: »

There is going to be one or two surprise selections. I think Larmour might miss out

I'd be surprised if he missed out but I wonder will we see Conway or Addison at FB against England?

BoardsMember

Is Carbery as a 10 that important to our abmitions of winning the RWC? I just don't see it. I still think Rossy Byrne at least gives him a run for his money at 10. I understand that Carbery can play 15, and maybe even cover 9 depending on selection, whereas Ross Byrne can't. But if we're looking for a 10 that can manage a game, if its Ross Byrne over Carbery then I don't think we lose a whole lot.

aloooof

BoardsMember wrote: »

Is Carbery as a 10 that important to our abmitions of winning the RWC? I just don't see it. I still think Rossy Byrne at least gives him a run for his money at 10. I understand that Carbery can play 15, and maybe even cover 9 depending on selection, whereas Ross Byrne can't. But if we're looking for a 10 that can manage a game, if its Ross Byrne over Carbery then I don't think we lose a whole lot.

It'd be more accurate to compare them as a 22, since Sexton will be our starting 10. And in that regard, Cabery is more valuable due to his versatility. In any case, it seems like Carty is ahead of Byrne as well at the moment.

ArmchairQB

I think Jack McGrath, Ruddock & Beirne will all miss out which is very harsh on Ruddock & Beirne in my opinion. If Ruddock misses out he will surely leave Leinster for a big money move in England & Beirne returned to be considered for world cup and McGrath moved provinces for the same reason. Nervous times for the players hope I am wrong on all 3 as I would take the 3 of them

Former Former

BoardsMember wrote: »

Is Carbery as a 10 that important to our abmitions of winning the RWC? I just don't see it. I still think Rossy Byrne at least gives him a run for his money at 10. I understand that Carbery can play 15, and maybe even cover 9 depending on selection, whereas Ross Byrne can't. But if we're looking for a 10 that can manage a game, if its Ross Byrne over Carbery then I don't think we lose a whole lot.

As long as Sexton stays fit, he's not that important at all.

However, it's very clear that he is the second best 10 in Joe's opinion. Byrne doesn't seem to be making any headway at all and has to get past Carty before he can think about Carbery.

awec

In 6 weeks Ireland play Scotland.

Putting aside emotions, Carbery can't travel. He'll be very doubtful for the opening game, which is our toughest group game, and then have no match fitness for the rest. And that's assuming it's really 6 weeks and not more, or there's no re-occurrence.

Harsh on him, but how can he be justified a spot?

awec

awec wrote: »

In 6 weeks Ireland play Scotland.

Putting aside emotions, Carbery can't travel. He'll be very doubtful for the opening game, which is our toughest group game, and then have no match fitness for the rest.

Harsh on him, but how can he be justified a spot?

We don't need him for the Scotland game. We need him for the quarters onwards if Sexton is gone. He's better than Byrne.

errlloyd

What are the rules on replacing fit players? Do I remember that once a player has been replaced, they cannot be re-added to the squad? IE, if we leave with Carty, Ross and Sexton, we can replace Ross with Joey at the end of the group stage, but then if he gets injured again we'd have to call up *checks notes* Hanrahan?

thomond2006

Rory Scannell might be recalled now.
He's not a 10 but he is a goalkicker.

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

We don't need him for the Scotland game. We need him for the quarters onwards if Sexton is gone. He's better than Byrne.

He's better than Byrne and he's better than Carty.

But he's also injured. And when he returns from this injury, which may or may not happen early in the tournament, he definitely won't be match fit.

EachSmallChime

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Carbery out for 6 weeks

That a tight deadline

This is only being reported by RugbyPass so far so I would take it with a pinch of salt. Total speculation.

Until we hear more directly from the camp, there is no update since Joe's press conference.

Mr Tickle

errlloyd wrote: »

What are the rules on replacing fit players? Do I remember that once a player has been replaced, they cannot be re-added to the squad? IE, if we leave with Carty, Ross and Sexton, we can replace Ross with Joey at the end of the group stage, but then if he gets injured again we'd have to call up *checks notes* Hanrahan?

That's basically it. I wonder does the player have to be injured to be dropped though. And what's the level of proof needed there.

Also this has all the makings of a Stephen Donald moment for Ian Keatly

sydthebeat

looking back at some of the match stats and going by them Kleyn actually had an impressive outing... and thats not looking at ruck involvements which is his forte.

he was the 2nd heaviest carrier of the tight five, with Niall Scannell carrying 12 times for 19 meters, Kleyn carried 9 times for 12 meters.
Only Tommy O Donnell tackled more with 17 to Kleyns 16.

And i think Schmidt referred to the numerous scrum penalties Ireland got off the back of some powerful scrummaging.

Clareman

I think we'll have to bring 3 out halves, when you only have 2 then both of them have to be available for all the games, Sexton is 34 I don't think it's feasible for him to play in every game, even if it's just for 10 minutes against the weaker teams.

If Carbery travels I think it's going to be with the aim for him to be on the bench for the Russia and Samoa games with Sexton starting and Carty as cover for Scotland and Japan

Clareman

Mr Tickle wrote: »

That's basically it. I wonder does the player have to be injured to be dropped though. And what's the level of proof needed there.

Also this has all the makings of a Stephen Donald moment for Ian Keatly

Keatley is an overseas player now so I'd say Madigan would be called up before he would be.

ionadnapokot

awec wrote: »

He's better than Byrne and he's better than Carty.

But he's also injured. And when he returns from this injury, which may or may not happen early in the tournament, he definitely won't be match fit.

He defo will go if he is progressing well and on track even for the Russia match. But i think it now means we will bring 3 OH's & 2 SH's
Hopefully he gets going in training and benches v Scot & Jap. If not Carty is in and Carbery can start v Russia and Samoa

salmocab

errlloyd wrote: »

What are the rules on replacing fit players? Do I remember that once a player has been replaced, they cannot be re-added to the squad? IE, if we leave with Carty, Ross and Sexton, we can replace Ross with Joey at the end of the group stage, but then if he gets injured again we'd have to call up *checks notes* Hanrahan?

Can’t replace a fit player, he must be injured and can not rejoin once gone.

AbusesToilets

Is Roux likely back at all? I had thought it was illness that had him out of the squad originally. If not, I think Kleyn is a cert for the last lock spot. Wasn't overly impressed with Nordi, be interesting to see how selection for the rest of the warm ups breakdown between him and Ruddock.

I think Larmor will get the body over Addison and Conway in the end. He can cover in the center, and has that game changing spark.

Burkie1203

Clareman wrote: »

Keatley is an overseas player now so I'd say Madigan would be called up before he would be.

Sexton Carbery Carty Byrne Burns Hanrahan

Keatley or Madigan won't be getting a call unless we have Dream Team style drama with our 10s.

Clareman

The risk with bring an injured Carbery would be that if Sexton/Carty gets injured against Scotland then we'll have no cover for the Japan game, you don't need to be a rugby expert to know that Scotland will target our halves.

AbusesToilets

Is Roux likely back at all? I had thought it was illness that had him out of the squad originally. If not, I think Kleyn is a cert for the last lock spot. Wasn't overly impressed with Nordi, be interesting to see how selection for the rest of the warm ups breakdown between him and Ruddock.

I think Larmor will get the nod over Addison and Conway in the end. He can cover in the center, and has that game changing spark.

Clareman

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Sexton Carbery Carty Byrne Burns Hanrahan

Keatley or Madigan won't be getting a call unless we have Dream Team style drama with our 10s.

Bring back Linda Block

Snow Garden

Former Former wrote: »

As long as Sexton stays fit, he's not that important at all.

However, it's very clear that he is the second best 10 in Joe's opinion. Byrne doesn't seem to be making any headway at all and has to get past Carty before he can think about Carbery.

The odds of Sexton staying fit for the warmup matches and the world cup are very slim. He does very well to stay fit for a complete Six Nations. Sexton will be targeted and he is too brave/reckless for his own good. It was predictable that Carbery would get injured. The guy is just brittle.
Ross Byrne needs to go to Japan even if not in the official squad.

Burkie1203

Burkie1203 wrote: »

There is going to be one or two surprise selections. I think Larmour might miss out

Maybe, but on the basis of his kicking game from fullback at the Weekend I'd say he increased his chances of travelling.

Mr Tickle

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Sexton Carbery Carty Byrne Burns Hanrahan

Keatley or Madigan won't be getting a call unless we have Dream Team style drama with our 10s.

Tyler too

Clareman

Sexton is 34, that's ancient in rugby terms, he's going to need cover, not only to play some of the matches but to close out matches, I don't think Sexton will be able to last the full 80 minutes in the head & humidity in Japan

So basically we're going to have to pull an 'escape to victory' on it and break someones legs so we can bring Carbery over?

All this time I thought Ross Byrne was the better option but now I'm thinking we should bring Carty after all.

sydthebeat

Clareman wrote: »

Sexton is 34, that's ancient in rugby terms, he's going to need cover, not only to play some of the matches but to close out matches, I don't think Sexton will be able to last the full 80 minutes in the head & humidity in Japan

I dont think anyone actually expects Sexton to do 5 x 80 minute games minimum.

He will be stood down completely for at least 1 game (probably russia), and he may bench the other (samoa)

His Scotland and Japan minutes will depend on the scorelines, but all things going well he wont do 80 in both.

Dan carter was 33 when he was man of the match in the RWC 2015 final.

Clareman

Sexton is clearly our starting 10 but he needs cover, Carbery is clearly our backup 10 and Carty is pushing him for his place with Byrne and those coming up behind. Now that Carbery is injured Carty is our back up 10 but we're stuck if anything happens to Sexton or Carty

awec

We only need Sexton to start 1 pool game, and then have him for the knockouts. It's not like he's going to be flogged.

Clareman

sydthebeat wrote: »

I dont think anyone actually expects Sexton to do 5 x 80 minute games minimum.

He will be stood down completely for at least 1 game (probably russia), and he may bench the other (samoa)

His Scotland and Japan minutes will depend on the scorelines, but all things going well he wont do 80 in both.

Dan carter was 33 when he was man of the match in the RWC 2015 final.

I'd imagine we'll be playing our starting XV against Scotland and Japan, then a full change for the Russia game, for the Samoa game I'd imagine anyone with any kind of knock will be rested.

On a side note, playing on a Saturday and Thursday is madness.

Clareman

Japan will be no pushovers but you'd imagine they'd be targeting the opening and last games as their must wins, I wouldn't be surprised if they were to beat Scotland but they'll have to do a lot of squad management to get to the last game with their full team.

Shefwedfan

Japan just won the Pacifics nations cup so they are hardly useless....

Carberry was always going to be 6 weeks out, he knew it himself when he was coming off the pitch

He can't travel. He should stay at home and try and get a game in for Munster. If something happens in the group games then he can fly out and maybe replace a squad member.

It will be Sexton, Carty, Byrne to travel.

With only 31 spots it would be silly to bring a player who has an injury before he even leaves and hasn't played any rugby before the tournament.

Everyone wants to see Carberry play and it is a huge loss but bringing a player who has an injury and isn't match fit is silly.

Everyone complains that Joe is too loyal, but now everyone wants him to be loyal. Carberry should be sent back to Munster for rehab and the squad get on with it. Invest time now in Carty at 10.

Clareman

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Japan just won the Pacifics nations cup so they are hardly useless....

Carberry was always going to be 6 weeks out, he knew it himself when he was coming off the pitch

He can't travel. He should stay at home and try and get a game in for Munster. If something happens in the group games then he can fly out and maybe replace a squad member.

It will be Sexton, Carty, Byrne to travel.

With only 31 spots it would be silly to bring a player who has an injury before he even leaves and hasn't played any rugby before the tournament.

Everyone wants to see Carberry play and it is a huge loss but bringing a player who has an injury and isn't match fit is silly.

Everyone complains that Joe is too loyal, but now everyone wants him to be loyal. Carberry should be sent back to Munster for rehab and the squad get on with it. Invest time now in Carty at 10.

Not a bad call at all, I wouldn't be surprised if Carbery got some media work in Japan rather than being left at home with Munster, in all reality even if he was left at home he wouldn't be travelling to South Africa with the Munster squad

PTH2009

Need to step it up the next few weeks

Were way behind the rest at the min which is a small bit worrying but tbh most of our top players are only getting back into it

England, South Africa and Australia look quite good

irelandrover

PTH2009 wrote: »

Need to step it up the next few weeks

Were way behind the rest at the min which is a small bit worrying but tbh most of our top players are only getting back into it

England, South Africa and Australia look quite good

Way behind who, and based on what. Ireland played a second string side against Italy and beat them easily.
Wales were well beaten by England.
NZ just conceded a record score against Australia.

salmocab

Clareman wrote: »

Not a bad call at all, I wouldn't be surprised if Carbery got some media work in Japan rather than being left at home with Munster, in all reality even if he was left at home he wouldn't be travelling to South Africa with the Munster squad

He can’t train with the squad so would be better with Munster getting proper fitness and possibly a match or two in. Sure they will have a plan in place for quick departures for certain players possibly to the point where he doesn’t even need to pack as it will already be there for them but I doubt any players are going to be loafing around Japan just in case.

The Lost Sheep

Clareman wrote: »

Not a bad call at all, I wouldn't be surprised if Carbery got some media work in Japan rather than being left at home with Munster, in all reality even if he was left at home he wouldn't be travelling to South Africa with the Munster squad

he will need game time and rehab here would be better as he woulsnt be able to link up with squad if in Japan.

Clareman

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

he will need game time and rehab here would be better as he woulsnt be able to link up with squad if in Japan.

He won't get game time with Munster though, he might be back for the Scarlets game on the 28th of September, after that Munster are heading to South African for 2 games, I can't imagine he'd be sent there if there was any chance of him being needed in Japan. Munster's next game then is the same weekend as the semi finals.

Clareman

salmocab wrote: »

He can’t train with the squad so would be better with Munster getting proper fitness and possibly a match or two in. Sure they will have a plan in place for quick departures for certain players possibly to the point where he doesn’t even need to pack as it will already be there for them but I doubt any players are going to be loafing around Japan just in case.

They'll have a plan for getting players over as quickly as possible but that won't allow them to get used to he time and climate differences.

I know it's a very long shot to have any player over there doing nothing, especially as they can't stay in the same hotel or get involved in any training but I'd say Eir Sports would be delighted to have him as part of their analysis if nothing else.

molloyjh

Snow Garden wrote: »

The odds of Sexton staying fit for the warmup matches and the world cup are very slim. He does very well to stay fit for a complete Six Nations. Sexton will be targeted and he is too brave/reckless for his own good. It was predictable that Carbery would get injured. The guy is just brittle.
Ross Byrne needs to go to Japan even if not in the official squad.

When was the last time Sexton missed an Ireland game through injury? 2 years ago? I really think his injury record is overstated. He played in all our 6Ns games this year and last. He played in 2 of last years Autumn games and he played in all 3 games in Oz. If i'm not mistaken the last game he missed through injury was Italy in the 2017 6Ns which is 2 1/2 years ago.

errlloyd

I guess his Leinster record doesn't give me much confidence in his durability. But Leinster also seem ridiculously confident in Ross Byrne so aren't too bothered.

The Lost Sheep

Clareman wrote: »

He won't get game time with Munster though, he might be back for the Scarlets game on the 28th of September, after that Munster are heading to South African for 2 games, I can't imagine he'd be sent there if there was any chance of him being needed in Japan. Munster's next game then is the same weekend as the semi finals.

he will be able to do far more here than going to Japan as he wont be able to do anything with squad once they're over there