Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

Clareman

molloyjh wrote: »

When was the last time Sexton missed an Ireland game through injury? 2 years ago? I really think his injury record is overstated. He played in all our 6Ns games this year and last. He played in 2 of last years Autumn games and he played in all 3 games in Oz. If i'm not mistaken the last game he missed through injury was Italy in the 2017 6Ns which is 2 1/2 years ago.

http://en.espn.co.uk/statsguru/rugby/player/16004.html?class=1;template=results;type=player;view=match

It's extremely rare for him to be injured for internationals but he did have a long injury absence when he was in France.

salmocab

Clareman wrote: »

They'll have a plan for getting players over as quickly as possible but that won't allow them to get used to he time and climate differences.

I know it's a very long shot to have any player over there doing nothing, especially as they can't stay in the same hotel or get involved in any training but I'd say Eir Sports would be delighted to have him as part of their analysis if nothing else.

He won’t be ready to play if he’s over in Japan commentating he needs to do full rehab and be training with a squad either Ireland’s or Munsters.

Mr Tickle

molloyjh wrote: »

When was the last time Sexton missed an Ireland game through injury? 2 years ago? I really think his injury record is overstated. He played in all our 6Ns games this year and last. He played in 2 of last years Autumn games and he played in all 3 games in Oz. If i'm not mistaken the last game he missed through injury was Italy in the 2017 6Ns which is 2 1/2 years ago.

I think he's been managed pretty well for the irish team too. He's been pretty light on game time coming up to a few international windows as far as i remember.

He went off after 20-25 mins against Scotland this season I think, and we had a rest week after which enabled him to play the next match. No such luxury in a RWC. He's missed plenty of games for Leinster.

molloyjh

Yeah Sexton has been managed well all right. Just pointing out that saying he is brittle and doesn't stay fit for a complete 6Ns isn't actually accurate.

molloyjh

We have plenty of luxury in the RWC. We can technically play him against Scotland and then rest him for 3 weeks. We really only need him to be fit for a 3-4 weeks stretch, which isn't much more than we need from him in a 6Ns tournament.

awec

I actually think this World Cup, even if Ireland got to the final, would be less demanding for Sexton than your average Six Nations schedule.

aloooof

Clareman wrote: »

Not a bad call at all, I wouldn't be surprised if Carbery got some media work in Japan rather than being left at home with Munster, in all reality even if he was left at home he wouldn't be travelling to South Africa with the Munster squad

I'd be extremely surprised, tbh. Aside from doing rehab, Munster also have a new backs Coach who will want as much time with Carbery as possible, I'd imagine.

Shefwedfan

If he is with Munster don't worry he will get game time.....

He is still aligned with Clontarf based on the latest squad announcement, send him down to AIL for a game.....

I am sure POC and ROG etc used to run out in AIL if they needed a game??

Or Munster A could do a game against someone else. If he is with Ireland then he hasn't a hope, they can't risk 14 other players just to try and get Carberry fit. What happens if a back up player goes over in the game.....

The best option now is send him back to Munster......

errlloyd

With Munster's schedule having poorly timed games in SA and Leinster having two OHs with Ireland now I think the best option is for him to go on loan back to Leinster for 8-10 years. :pac::pac::pac::pac:

Shefwedfan

Kailyn Jolly Mascot wrote: »

He went off after 20-25 mins against Scotland this season I think, and we had a rest week after which enabled him to play the next match. No such luxury in a RWC. He's missed plenty of games for Leinster.

Sexton was probably due to start against Scotland and then taken off with 20 mins to go....he would still be able to start against Japan and come off as well...


Then you would not see him for any duration till the Qtr's.....a couple of run outs for last 20 mins or so....maybe earlier if poo hitting fan


That is it.



Sexton misses how many important games for Leinster? the last European games he could have played only leinster or the IRFU didnt want to risk him.....also Byrne was playing well


Every other game he missed was because he didn't have to play or Leinster didnt want him to play

Christy42

aloooof wrote: »

I'd be extremely surprised, tbh. Aside from doing rehab, Munster also have a new backs Coach who will want as much time with Carbery as possible, I'd imagine.

Joe will decide if he is doing media work or working with the Monster backs coach. Munster won't be getting a say in this. Joe will also decide if he plays for anyone during this period.

Former Former

Surely it would make more sense for Carbery to be doing his rehab with the rest of the squad in Portugal?

ManAboutCouch

Lets see if Carbery really is out for 6 weeks. The original source of the rumour seems to be Rugbypass, who don't have a great record. They broke the news at around 08:30 this morning, which is almost certainly before Carbery would have had his scan.

Mr Tickle

ManAboutCouch wrote: »

Lets see if Carbery really is out for 6 weeks. The original source of the rumour seems to be Rugbypass, who don't have a great record. They broke the news at around 08:30 this morning, which is almost certainly before Carbery would have had his scan.

You're right. and the plan was to wait 48 hours for the swelling to go down.

Watched a chunk of the game back last night and the rest of it over lunch, overall a grand nuts and bolts performance but no nuance or invention with the exception of Carbery's try.

Toner really didn't get into the game at all, it was clear that Klyne was taking a primary role in our defensive line out and maul defence and I presume this was intentional to give Joe a look, but with his primary role taken away Toner looked very ordinary. Klyne had a busy game and is very solid defensively, on the flip side of this, our line out defence and counter maul were both poor.

Herring probably needed as much time on the pitch as possible to make an impact so I would imagine he is extremely disappointed to go off early and Scannell went reasonably well.

All the backs went quite well, I mentioned elsewhere that Larmour's kicking was impressive - needs to show he can replicate that on a consistent basis but it's an important part of his role at fullback and it's a promising indicator coming into the World Cup. He allowed himself get stripped in contact during the first half which will go against him, given how Joe likes his fullbacks to take the ball back into contact but he also distributed well assisting tries for Conway and Kearney.

Thought Jordi was poor enough try aside, spilled a good few balls in contact. Jack McGrath had a solid but somewhat uninvolved game - Healy is in a different dimension entirely now to any of our other options.

Game was fairly done by the time the bench was emptied but for the most part it served it's purpose of giving a platform to a few fringe players to make a case for themselves.

If that six weeks is true then Carbery's world cup is on a knife edge. He will be utterly motivated to do everything right to get back which makes me think he'll beat the return date, but any complications or set backs will be fatal to his chances.

awec

Deleted User wrote: »

Watched a chunk of the game back last night and the rest of it over lunch, overall a grand nuts and bolts performance but no nuance or invention with the exception of Carbery's try.

Toner really didn't get into the game at all, it was clear that Klyne was taking a primary role in our defensive line out and maul defence and I presume this was intentional to give Joe a look, but with his primary role taken away Toner looked very ordinary. Klyne had a busy game and is very solid defensively, on the flip side of this, our line out defence and counter maul were both poor.

Herring probably needed as much time on the pitch as possible to make an impact so I would imagine he is extremely disappointed to go off early and Scannell went reasonably well.

All the backs went quite well, I mentioned elsewhere that Larmour's kicking was impressive - needs to show he can replicate that on a consistent basis but it's an important part of his role at fullback and it's a promising indicator coming into the World Cup. He allowed himself get stripped in contact during the first half which will go against him, given how Joe likes his fullbacks to take the ball back into contact but he also distributed well assisting tries for Conway and Kearney.

Thought Jordi was poor enough try aside, spilled a good few balls in contact. Jack McGrath had a solid but somewhat uninvolved game - Healy is in a different dimension entirely now to any of our other options.

Game was fairly done by the time the bench was emptied but for the most part it served it's purpose of giving a platform to a few fringe players to make a case for themselves.

If that six weeks is true then Carbery's world cup is on a knife edge. He will be utterly motivated to do everything right to get back which makes me think he'll beat the return date, but any complications or set backs will be fatal to his chances.

Really?! You re-watched that match?

Lads we all need to club together and get Venjur a year's Netflix.

awec

awec wrote: »

Really?! You re-watched that match?

Lads we all need to club together and get Venjur a year's Netflix.

As an Ulster supporter you just have never gotten into the habit of re-watching games

joseywhales

Carbery is very important, there is about 50% chance of Sexton making it to the quarter final fully fit.

I trust him to play in the biggest games and play well, the other's carty/byrne are riskier options.

He is worth holding a place for if it looks like he can make it back even halfway through the group stage.

BoardsMember

joseywhales wrote: »

Carbery is very important, there is about 50% chance of Sexton making it to the quarter final fully fit.

I trust him to play in the biggest games and play well, the other's carty/byrne are riskier options.

He is worth holding a place for if it looks like he can make it back even halfway through the group stage.

I don't think he's very important as a starter. In the bigger games with Sexton starting, as a 22 he's invaluable. For me (and I know not Joe, so I'm sure I'm wrong), if just talking a starting 10 when Sexton is not available, I would be very happy to have Ross Byrne starting.

awec

joseywhales wrote: »

Carbery is very important, there is about 50% chance of Sexton making it to the quarter final fully fit.

I trust him to play in the biggest games and play well, the other's carty/byrne are riskier options.

He is worth holding a place for if it looks like he can make it back even halfway through the group stage.

Don't know why you think this. Have you seen our pool?

Sexton will spend half of his early World Cup taking it easy.

joseywhales

But they have to play him, he needs at least two games to get sharp. Every player needs to be peak going into that game against one of the top two teams in the world.

ManAboutCouch

awec wrote: »

Don't know why you think this. Have you seen our pool?

Sexton will spend half of his early World Cup taking it easy.

Not just the pool, Ireland's draw is pretty favourable too. The toughest match up first,then a slightly short 6 day turn around to the second toughest against the home nation. The following turnaround is only 5 days, but it's against the second lowest ranked team in the competition. There's then a 9 day break before facing Samoa who will probably be eliminated by that stage.

Very different from RWC15 when we lost the spine of the team in the final group match and went out undercooked against Argentina in the QF.

errlloyd

ManAboutCouch wrote: »

There's then a 9 day break before facing Samoa who will probably be eliminated by that stage.

There is even a chance, although somewhat small, we will be mathematically top of our pool by the time we play Samoa. If we are 5 points clear of both Scotland and Japan (who will be yet to play each other, annoyingly) they wouldn't be able to overtake us.

Henry Ford III

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Carbery out for 6 weeks

That a tight deadline

From where did this titbit of information emerge?

errlloyd

I didn't realise South Africa have a 12 day break between their final pool game and likely quarter. They really have the dream draw for this world cup.

ManAboutCouch

Henry Ford III wrote: »

From where did this titbit of information emerge?

From Rugbypass, who posted it this morning before Carbery would have had his scan. They probably googled 'sprained ankle recovery time' and saw 6 weeks.

Same bunch had Bastareaud signing for Munster earlier this summer.

b.gud

ManAboutCouch wrote: »

From Rugbypass, who posted it this morning before Carbery would have had his scan. They probably googled 'sprained ankle recovery time' and saw 6 weeks.

Same bunch had Bastareaud signing for Munster earlier this summer.

And Tuilagi to Racing as a done deal as well.

I don't trust the Irish medical update 100% but I trust it 1000% more than I'd trust one from Rugbypass

ManAboutCouch

errlloyd wrote: »

I didn't realise South Africa have a 12 day break between their final pool game and likely quarter. They really have the dream draw for this world cup.

There's nearly a month between the NZ/SA match and the quarter finals. Ireland got badly done last time by having the toughest group match up last.

I don't fancy England's draw this time around, their final two group matches are against Argentina and then France.

awec

I personally hope the coaches take the view that Ireland are going to have three knockout fixtures (i.e. finalists), and plan Sexton's pool game time accordingly.

We don't need Sexton to top the pool. We just need to keep him fit.

I'd play him against Scotland, sub as early as possible, though it's likely he'll play 70+ mins. Bench against Japan, rest against Russia, 40/50 mins against Samoa.

Podge_irl

I only have tickets to the quarter-final where we top the group.

I hope Joe is as confident as me.

shootermacg

If I had to choose between Larmour and Conway, I'd have Conway. Other than a few tries vs a tired and be beaten Italy, I haven't seen much from Larmour.

Shefwedfan

shootermacg wrote: »

If I had to choose between Larmour and Conway, I'd have Conway. Other than a few tries vs a tired and be beaten Italy, I haven't seen much from Larmour.

:P


Not putting down Conway but he will be lucky to make the squad, done well on Saturday but still at best a maybe....

Larmour has been moved from one position to another for Ireland and has always performed.....so far I think he has played most positions from 11-15 for Ireland....maybe 12 is the only one he hasn't? in a very short space of time.

Trying to say all he done was a few tries v Italy is taking a very very blinkered look at the guy......

Squidgy Black

awec wrote: »

I personally hope the coaches take the view that Ireland are going to have three knockout fixtures (i.e. finalists), and plan Sexton's pool game time accordingly.

We don't need Sexton to top the pool. We just need to keep him fit.

I'd play him against Scotland, sub as early as possible, though it's likely he'll play 70+ mins. Bench against Japan, rest against Russia, 40/50 mins against Samoa.

In the same vein, ideally we'd do the same with Murray.

Our group should allow us a lot more flexibility in terms of using squad depth compared to 2015, where we had Italy and France, who both potentially could've caused an upset, as our last two games.

Having Scotland and Japan up front means our big names will be able to rest/play off the bench at a much lower tempo, the group should be well wrapped up after the first two games.

Hermanius

Right Lads just for the Craic...

Could you mix up the team a bit...

Taghd Furlong at number 8
Gary Ringrose as a winger
Sexton as a 12 outside carberry
carberry as scrum half
Larmour as scrumhalf
Murray as full back

Give them a couple months at it and they would go alright ... ok Ive put my helmet on so Fire Away!

Thanks

Squidgy Black

Hermanius wrote: »

Right Lads just for the Craic...

Could you mix up the team a bit...

Taghd Furlong at number 8
Gary Ringrose as a winger
Sexton as a 12 outside carberry
carberry as scrum half
Larmour as scrumhalf
Murray as full back

Give them a couple months at it and they would go alright ... ok Ive put my helmet on so Fire Away!

Thanks

Sean Cronin as a crash ball 12. Cian Healy at 10 doing nothing but hitting drop goals once he gets inside the opposition half.

Jump_In_Jack

We’ll go full team against Scotland.
Then we’ll make a few changes for Japan but not too many, maybe 4 or 5, depending on how the Scotland game went for injuries.
Then we’ll play our absolute B team against Russia.
And then we’ll play our full team against Samoa and try to make early substitutions if possible if we get a decent lead early on.
That’ll set us up for the quarter-final as much as possible.

Jump_In_Jack

I’m sorry for Carbery as I thought up until he got injured he was heading for man of the match.
I think he’ll be left to rehab for the next few weeks but if not able to play against Wales in the Aviva I don’t think he’ll be selected for Japan.
I think there’s a chance that we’ll take 2 out-halves with the option to bring Carbery into the squad if we lose a back in the pool stages.
I really like Carty too though, so I think we should go with Sexton and Carty against England, then Carty and Byrne for Wales away, then Sexton and Carty again for Wales at home.
Just Sexton and Carty to travel, with 3 scrum-halves, Murray, Marmion and Cooney as sub out-half for the Russia match.

So for the pools i’d go with:
Scotland
9. Murray, 10. Sexton,
21. Marmion, 22. Carty

Japan
9. Murray, 10. Sexton,
21. Marmion, 22. Carty
(Cooney as backup for either position in case of injury)

Russia
9. Marmion, 10. Carty
21. Murray, 22. Cooney
(Rest Sexton)

Samoa
9. Murray, 10. Sexton,
21. Marmion, 22. Carty
(Cooney as backup for either position in case of injury)

And if any of the 5 halves get badly injured during the pools I’d hope to be able to bring Carbery in to replace them.

Dubinusa

Interested to see if Murray performs! If he's at the same standard as he was during the 6nations, he shouldn't travel.

Shefwedfan

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

We’ll go full team against Scotland.
Then we’ll make a few changes for Japan but not too many, maybe 4 or 5, depending on how the Scotland game went for injuries.
Then we’ll play our absolute B team against Russia.
And then we’ll play our full team against Samoa and try to make early substitutions if possible if we get a decent lead early on.
That’ll set us up for the quarter-final as much as possible.

I expect changes so if fit Ryan and Henderson v Scotland and Toner and Kleyn v Japan

Kearney at FB for Scotland but maybe Larmour v japan

The starting front row v Scotland on bench v Japan etc...it’s a short turn around and Scotland will be tough and Japan will try run us off the park....playing a load of tired players won’t work

Jump_In_Jack

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I expect changes so if fit Ryan and Henderson v Scotland and Toner and Kleyn v Japan

Kearney at FB for Scotland but maybe Larmour v japan

The starting front row v Scotland on bench v Japan etc...it’s a short turn around and Scotland will be tough and Japan will try run us off the park....playing a load of tired players won’t work

I can’t see us changing the entire front five for the Japan match.
I’d expect a few changes to freshen up a bit.
6 days turnaround shouldn’t be much of an issue.
I think we’ll probably lose 2 or 3 to minor knocks at least, and maybe one or two might be worth swapping to keep the energy levels high.

For example, I’d probably keep the same front row, as they usually only play 50-60 minutes before being subbed off so should be OK after 6 days rest to go again.
I’d probably swap one lock, so for example start Ryan and Henderson against Scotland and start Ryan and Toner against Japan.
I’d probably go with a swap at number 8 too, so O’Mahony, Van der Flier, Stander with Conan to replace Van der Flier with 25 to go and Stander to move to 7 against Scotland.
Then against Japan, start Conan with Stander on the bench, and sub off whoever is most tired with 25 to go.
I’d probably keep the half-backs the same for momentum,
But I’d swap a centre, for example Aki for Henshaw.
I’d probably keep the same back 3 for both matches, but if any injury doubts for the Japan match I’d start Larmour if it’s fullback or Conway if a winger with the other on the bench.

Former Former

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I expect changes so if fit Ryan and Henderson v Scotland and Toner and Kleyn v Japan

Kearney at FB for Scotland but maybe Larmour v japan

The starting front row v Scotland on bench v Japan etc...it’s a short turn around and Scotland will be tough and Japan will try run us off the park....playing a load of tired players won’t work

It's a six day turnaround, we shouldn't need to rest anyone. I'd be extremely surprised if we don't go full strength against Japan.

Kevski

Dubinusa wrote: »

Interested to see if Murray performs! If he's at the same standard as he was during the 6nations, he shouldn't travel.

Can’t figure out if this is a serious post...

eclipsechaser

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Sean Cronin as a crash ball 12. Cian Healy at 10 doing nothing but hitting drop goals once he gets inside the opposition half.

With Cronin's pace, he's almost already a winger.

ionadnapokot

eclipsechaser wrote: »

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Sean Cronin as a crash ball 12. Cian Healy at 10 doing nothing but hitting drop goals once he gets inside the opposition half.

With Cronin's pace, he's almost already a winger.

Or a snipping SH
Let’s just say 2 Scrum half’s go. Who actually could cover in an emergency?
Conway has a suitable skill set.

joseywhales

There's noone, we would lose to Japan without a sh. .......but if I had to larmour

sydthebeat

joseywhales wrote: »

There's noone, we would lose to Japan without a sh. .......but if I had to larmour

Is Noone travelling??

That would be a bit of a bolter

Squidgy Black

joseywhales wrote: »

There's noone, we would lose to Japan without a sh. .......but if I had to larmour

Would've said Ringrose myself.

Mr Tickle

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Or a snipping SH
Let’s just say 2 Scrum half’s go. Who actually could cover in an emergency?
Conway has a suitable skill set.

I think i read here that Carbery played 9 a lot before moving to 10. I'm not sure what level that was to though.

I'd have assumed in an emergency you just go with the extra 10.

All this chat reminds me of