Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

Shefwedfan

Former Coach wrote: »

Can’t see how they can guarantee no injuries.Surely it’s even more dangerous if a lot of guys are running around trying to avoid injury.

They can't guarantee it


But they can have a conversation to reduce the risk....


Also agree which match is the B team and which is A team etc.....

Burkie1203

D14Rugby wrote: »

There a clear pattern to the selection cuts which says otherwise.

Joe will have planned this month's ago. There is no pattern in selection cuts at all.

This idea that Cooney can play 10 is fanciful. He hasn't played any top level game there so was never a runner IMO. It was media driven more then anything

Joe won't want a repeat of 2015 so will protect Sexton at all costs for any QF

Gachla

Lessons will need to have been learned. If a player isn't showing form, no matter what his name is, he has to get dropped. This has to be the case whether it's Murray, Sexton, Ringrose, O'Mahony, anyone. Sticking with them and hoping they turn it around during the tournament has been tried and it failed.
It will be hard to judge the form during the warm up games, however.

Joma4good

Gachla wrote: »

Lessons will need to have been learned. If a player isn't showing form, no matter what his name is, he has to get dropped. This has to be the case whether it's Murray, Sexton, Ringrose, O'Mahony, anyone. Sticking with them and hoping they turn it around during the tournament has been tried and it failed.
It will be hard to judge the form during the warm up games, however.

If you get a chance watch RO’G and O’Driscoll’s interview on OTB this week re selection they were basically saying nobody gets picked without showing their worth in training and what we see from outside the camp in games is minuscule compared with the coaches evaluation of training etc. I think ROG said there are no hard luck stories if you’re good enough that will show you above your peers and get you into the team, doesn’t guarantee the performance but surely better method than opinion based on seeing players only in a game and against different opposition?

D14Rugby

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Joe will have planned this month's ago. There is no pattern in selection cuts at all.

This idea that Cooney can play 10 is fanciful. He hasn't played any top level game there so was never a runner IMO. It was media driven more then anything

Joe won't want a repeat of 2015 so will protect Sexton at all costs for any QF

The cuts are planned and that's why they follow a pattern and I know this as a fact. Planned doesn't mean at this point I'll do this, it means at this point if this I'll do this or if this I'll do this. It would be foolishly stubborn to have everything completely set in stone no matter what with so many variables still to play out. If it was planned to the extent you're saying he wouldn't have kept 8 half backs after the first cuts and you could make an argument for just naming the squad now.

Sexton wouldn't and won't play the last two group games, but Carberys injury means you can't have him going the full 80 or anywhere close so need a proper 10 as a backup whereas if he was fully fit he could go 60 then when the games won whip him off and put a makeshift 10 in. Having just two 9s is less ideal as it means they both have to be involved in all the games for the duration between them

Burkie1203

D14Rugby wrote: »

Having just two 9s is less ideal as it means they both have to be involved in all the games for the duration between them

Eh that was the situation in 2015. That's why I don't think we every planned to go with only 2 10s.

Squidgy Black

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Eh that was the situation in 2015. That's why I don't think we every planned to go with only 2 10s.

Remember the whole media storm made out of Madigan potentially having to play at 9?

D14Rugby

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Eh that was the situation in 2015. That's why I don't think we every planned to go with only 2 10s.

In 2015 a specialist 9 was only an hour away with no acclimatisation needed. If schmidt knew all along he only wanted 2 9s he wouldn't have kept 4 in the squad after the first cut.

Former Former

Former Coach wrote: »

Can’t see how they can guarantee no injuries.Surely it’s even more dangerous if a lot of guys are running around trying to avoid injury.

Of course they can't, it's nonsense.

Besides, the vast majority of injuries happen either through perfectly legal play or without any contact with an opponent

P.Walnuts

Former Former wrote: »

Of course they can't, it's nonsense.

Besides, the vast majority of injuries happen either through perfectly legal play or without any contact with an opponent

This a million times

Any kind of agreement to go easy its absolute tripe

stephen_n

So Italy beat Russia 85-15, that puts Russia somewhere around poor pro 14 to AIL standard really.

andymx11

stephen_n wrote: »

So Italy beat Russia 85-15, that puts Russia somewhere around poor pro 14 to AIL standard really.

So Samoa should be about 25 - 30 points favourites in their pool game?

Burkie1203

D14Rugby wrote: »

In 2015 a specialist 9 was only an hour away with no acclimatisation needed. If schmidt knew all along he only wanted 2 9s he wouldn't have kept 4 in the squad after the first cut.

England have only named 2 9s. They are pretty much the same distance away from Tokyo as Ireland. No matter what way the squad is picked there will be one area short, risky. So that issue just gets shifted a long the line

How do you know his reasoning for keeping players in the extended squad?

There is no way we were ever bringing just 2 10s.

D14Rugby

Burkie1203 wrote: »

England have only named 2 9s. They are pretty much the same distance away from Tokyo as Ireland. No matter what way the squad is picked there will be one area short, risky. So that issue just gets shifted a long the line

How do you know his reasoning for keeping players in the extended squad?

There is no way we were ever bringing just 2 10s.

Yes and my point was Schmidt had the decision for where that risk was even greater made for him when Carbery got injured.

Let's just call it a very well educated guess...

Former Coach

Nothing major to fear from Scotland on the basis of their performance this evening V France.

ionadnapokot

Anyone know was there a reason why Beirne played 5 and Kleyn 4 last season?

Injuries permitting V Scotland and Japan.
James Ryan is going to be the starting No.5.
Toner 4. Henderson 19.

Wondering about the benefit of bringing Kleyn on dry hard pitches. Is Joe planning/looking specifically to SA and putting Kleyn in at 4 or 19?

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It was reported on offtheball that Joe and Warren have discussed the games between Ireland and wales to make sure no injuries.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Hold on till I ring Joe and ask him

As I said it was reported on Offtheball

Ring them and ask...

Taking a guess I would expect the team to make an agreement to no "late" challanges etc....

It wasn't. What was actually said was:

Warren Gatland has said he has discussed selection with Joe Schmidt for those 2 games

They can't ensure no injuries for obvious reasons.

ScrubsfanChris

Looks like Ireland will go top with a win over England next week.
Not that it matters much but interesting to know.

bilston

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Anyone know was there a reason why Beirne played 5 and Kleyn 4 last season?

Injuries permitting V Scotland and Japan.
James Ryan is going to be the starting No.5.
Toner 4. Henderson 19.

Wondering about the benefit of bringing Kleyn on dry hard pitches. Is Joe planning/looking specifically to SA and putting Kleyn in at 4 or 19?

I still maintain Henderson's physicality should be a factor when deciding the starting second rows. The best 40 minutes of rugby we played in the 6Ns was when Henderson and Ryan started together.

I don't think it is certain that Ryan and Toner start together.

bilston

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Looks like Ireland will go top with a win over England next week.
Not that it matters much but interesting to know.

I'll put it out there now...but if Ireland win next weekend I'll be very very pleasantly surprised.

If England lose at Twickenham to us having just lost in Cardiff then they'll be concerned.

England are a bit ahead of us at the minute, in that they have played a game more and most of their frontliners have minutes in the legs.

ionadnapokot

bilston wrote: »

I still maintain Henderson's physicality should be a factor when deciding the starting second rows. The best 40 minutes of rugby we played in the 6Ns was when Henderson and Ryan started together.

I don't think it is certain that Ryan and Toner start together.

Would also agree.
Just think Joe places a higher premium on lineout.
would you start Henderson-Ryan ahead of Kleyn - Ryan v SA?

bilston

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Would also agree.
Just think Joe places a higher premium on lineout.
would you start Henderson-Ryan ahead of Kleyn - Ryan v SA?

For me it's horses for courses.

Against Scotland I'd be going with Toner and Ryan to secure the set piece but against teams like SA or England I'd be more inclined to start Henderson and Ryan because they would be very physical encounters

NZ is somewhere in between.

As much as we may talk them up I don't think it should matter against Japan.

PTH2009

Former Coach wrote: »

Nothing major to fear from Scotland on the basis of their performance this evening V France.

Still think they will cause us issues

ionadnapokot

bilston wrote: »

For me it's horses for courses.

Against Scotland I'd be going with Toner and Ryan to secure the set piece but against teams like SA or England I'd be more inclined to start Henderson and Ryan because they would be very physical encounters

NZ is somewhere in between.

As much as we may talk them up I don't think it should matter against Japan.

And I think Joe has long decided that Ireland will try to outmuscle Both Scotland and Japan. Set-Piece and Mauls galore. Toner is key component of that strategy.
I’m just thinking that Joe has also decided that Kleyn is the man that he would want in the tight if anything happened to Toner.

ionadnapokot

Henderson’s forte
V Boks
https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/video:-iain-henderson-flattens-eben-etzebeth/600600

schmoo2k

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Would also agree.
Just think Joe places a higher premium on lineout.
would you start Henderson-Ryan ahead of Kleyn - Ryan v SA?

SAs line out is suspect IMO - If toner (and POM) were on the pitch, i would be kicking for the corners all night morning long...

Shefwedfan

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Looks like Ireland will go top with a win over England next week.
Not that it matters much but interesting to know.

Ireland wont win and don’t really think we want to be number 1 going into WC, let wales off with it

Henry Ford III

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ireland wont win and don’t really think we want to be number 1 going into WC, let wales off with it

1/. Possibly.

2/. You don't know that.

ionadnapokot

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Henderson’s forte
V Boks
https://www.ultimaterugby.com/news/video%3A-iain-henderson-flattens-eben-etzebeth/600600

Is it really necessary to be posting that kind of filth on a Sunday.

Christy42

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ireland wont win and don’t really think we want to be number 1 going into WC, let wales off with it

It is something that I would like us to get to as a team. Once we have had I don't see it as the most important thing. I suspect we will not hold onto it given how close it all is but it would be nice to have no. 1 as our best ranking.

Former Former

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ireland wont win and don’t really think we want to be number 1 going into WC, let wales off with it

I would rather we win and have some momentum going into the RWC (for once). If being #1 is the side-effect of that, grand.

typhoony

Gachla wrote: »

Lessons will need to have been learned. If a player isn't showing form, no matter what his name is, he has to get dropped. This has to be the case whether it's Murray, Sexton, Ringrose, O'Mahony, anyone. Sticking with them and hoping they turn it around during the tournament has been tried and it failed.
It will be hard to judge the form during the warm up games, however.

Well you have to say Murray was out of form in the 6 nations, I don't see Schmidt dropping him.

Jump_In_Jack

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ireland wont win and don’t really think we want to be number 1 going into WC, let wales off with it

We absolutely should want to be number 1 going into the WC.
It would be a great achievement.
Also, this Ireland team are mentally strong, and the title of best team in the world would boost them rather than frighten them.
That’s a mark of where we’ve come to in recent years.
Moral victories and being a plucky underdog would suit perhaps Scotland or Japan at this point, not a team that has been planning to win the World Cup for a few years now and have gone about beating all of the top teams in the world more often than not.

joseywhales

I think it means nothing but we should use it as another motivational tool, let's be number one and win every match from now until the end of the tournament

molloyjh

Former Former wrote: »

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ireland wont win and don’t really think we want to be number 1 going into WC, let wales off with it

I would rather we win and have some momentum going into the RWC (for once). If being #1 is the side-effect of that, grand.

Yep, I dont give a fiddles about the rankings right now. But momentum would be nice.

aloooof

molloyjh wrote: »

Yep, I dont give a fiddles about the rankings right now. But momentum would be nice.

This is how I'd feel about it too, but it would be yet another thing Ireland have never done that has been achieved under Schmidt, to add to:

- Beating the All Blacks.
- Back to Back 6 Nations.
- Series win in Australia.
- Test win in South Africa.

Leaving one final hurdle, winning a RWC QF.

Jump_In_Jack

aloooof wrote: »

This is how I'd feel about it too, but it would be yet another thing Ireland have never done that has been achieved under Schmidt, to add to:

- Beating the All Blacks.
- Back to Back 6 Nations.
- Series win in Australia.
- Test win in South Africa.

Leaving one final hurdle, winning a RWC QF.

To do list:
Beating New Zealand in New Zealand.
Winning a series in South Africa.
Winning a series in New Zealand.
Getting to a semi-final, final, and winning a World Cup.

aloooof

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

To do list:
Beating New Zealand in New Zealand.
Winning a series in South Africa.
Winning a series in New Zealand.
Getting to a semi-final, final, and winning a World Cup.

And could a back-to-back Grand Slam be too much to ask?

Christy42

aloooof wrote: »

And could a back-to-back Grand Slam be too much to ask?

3 in a row or what is the point?

Former Former

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

To do list:
Beating New Zealand in New Zealand.
Winning a series in South Africa.
Winning a series in New Zealand.
Getting to a semi-final, final, and winning a World Cup.

Big ask of Joe in his last two months in the job.

Do we go full strength for England? I think that would be a mistake. If we lose, that could be terrible for our confidence. We still need to have a look a few players. Carty to get his first start at 10? Seems like a perfect opportunity.

aloooof

Deleted User wrote: »

Do we go full strength for England? I think that would be a mistake. If we lose, that could be terrible for our confidence. We still need to have a look a few players. Carty to get his first start at 10? Seems like a perfect opportunity.

The consensus on a couple of podcasts seemed to be that they're using the England game and the first Wales game as a dry run for the Scotland and Japan games. So a fully strength team against England and maybe 2-3 changes for the first Wales game.

Henry Ford III

aloooof wrote: »

The consensus on a couple of podcasts seemed to be that they're using the England game and the first Wales game as a dry run for the Scotland and Japan games. So a fully strength team against England and maybe 2-3 changes for the first Wales game.

How could they possibly know?

Former Former

Henry Ford III wrote: »

How could they possibly know?

I suppose if you picked the guys who didn't feature against Italy, you'd be close enough to the first choice XV

errlloyd

Henry Ford III wrote: »

How could they possibly know?

A couple will be guessing. A couple will be basing it on what we've done before. A couple will have got off the record info from players or management. And a couple will be wrong.

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

The consensus on a couple of podcasts seemed to be that they're using the England game and the first Wales game as a dry run for the Scotland and Japan games. So a fully strength team against England and maybe 2-3 changes for the first Wales game.

It was suggested on one of the podcasts, can't remember that the Ireland v Wales at home would be the starting 15 that would run out against Scotland. They would play the Wales game and then had a 2 week rest and straight into the Scotland game.



Of course it is guesswork. But playing the full 15 against Wales away, and then not playing for 22 days seems a bit long.

clsmooth

Didn’t we play strong sides vs England away and Wales home last time? And lost both. And won away in Wales with a second string. Think we’ll see similar again.

aloooof

Henry Ford III wrote: »

How could they possibly know?

Presumably, journalists will have sources. (Some more credible than others). You could ask the same question when you see starting 15's announced before the official announcement.

Shefwedfan

clsmooth wrote: »

Didn’t we play strong sides vs England away and Wales home last time? And lost both. And won away in Wales with a second string. Think we’ll see similar again.

Wales was first up and it was the C team so to speak. This time we played Italy up first and again it was the kind of C team to rule people out of squad more than rule them in.....


It's different this time, last time we played the easy games and then France last. Now we have the hardest games up first......so need the 1st team battle ready

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It was suggested on one of the podcasts, can't remember that the Ireland v Wales at home would be the starting 15 that would run out against Scotland. They would play the Wales game and then had a 2 week rest and straight into the Scotland game.



Of course it is guesswork. But playing the full 15 against Wales away, and then not playing for 22 days seems a bit long.

That would make more sense to me too, tbh. Joe is announcing his squad between the 2 Welsh games as well, so you'd imagine he wants to see as much of the marginal calls as possible in the next 2 games.