Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

Shefwedfan

All he has to do for a 6 nations, play ok for first 2 years, get around mid table

Lions comes around and they pick all Wales & English players. We will let Sexton go as he will retire. All other Irish players stay at home

The following 6 nations we hammer everyone :-) it is that easy

ClanofLams

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I agree in the pack, but on the wing?? listen to even BOD now and he was talking the other day about getting burned by a Cardiff player when he shouldn't have......D'Arcy stayed on 1 year too long....

Both Trimble and Bowe have said they knew the writing was on the wall when they seen Stockdale coming up behind them and quickly retired....

Earls has been a fantastic player for Ireland but the players coming up behind him...the young wing from Ulster, Lowe will be available, Conway will only be 28 and can make the WC squad, Sweetnam etc

Loads of options.

P.S It is just an opinion...I would say the same about McFadden/D Kearney etc if he was in squad.

I wasn’t talking about Earls specifically more responding to your comment he should drop anyone who won’t make 2023.

If Earls is still the best winger available he will be picked. If not he won’t be. From Farrell’s point of view, two poor six nations showing and he’s probably out the door. No point worrying about 2023 then.

Four years is such a long time anyway that most squad development happens naturally without it needing to be a priority in the first couple of years. Look at Schmidt playing Reddan in South Africa in 2016 or Donnacha Ryan in the 2017 6N when he was off to France that summer.

Buer

Ryan's move wasn't confirmed until a couple of weeks after the 6N, if fairness.

ClanofLams

Buer wrote: »

Ryan's move wasn't confirmed until a couple of weeks after the 6N, if fairness.

True but i think it’s fairly safe to assume Schmidt and the IRFU were aware before then.

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Can you?

No. I don't need to to backup my point. You need to for yours. I'll give you a clue tho. There isn't any.

jacothelad

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I'm hearing that Kilcoyne being selected ahead of Jack McGrath is happening to "incentivise" McGrath to move to Ulster.

How exactly will that lead to a player moving to a weaker team? Getting first 15 games with Ulster isn't the same as getting it with Leinster. He would, for his own career - be better staying and challenging Healy although it would be good for Ulster and EOSu. if the unlikely happened. There were rumours of McG moving to Ulster a number of years ago - I think maybe when Court was leaving - or even before that. Maybe when Jack O'Connell was still there.

Eod100

Jayus, talk of the next RWC already, let's get through this one first! :P

jacothelad

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I agree in the pack, but on the wing?? listen to even BOD now and he was talking the other day about getting burned by a Cardiff player when he shouldn't have......D'Arcy stayed on 1 year too long....

Both Trimble and Bowe have said they knew the writing was on the wall when they seen Stockdale coming up behind them and quickly retired....

Earls has been a fantastic player for Ireland but the players coming up behind him...the young wing from Ulster, Lowe will be available, Conway will only be 28 and can make the WC squad, Sweetnam etc

Loads of options.

P.S It is just an opinion...I would say the same about McFadden/D Kearney etc if he was in squad.

I don't think any Irish coach will rush to chuck the baby out with the bath water if it can still float. If Earls is still producing the current level of play why would he be jettisoned. Conway is a great player and he, Lowe, Stockdale, Byrne etc are great alternatives if injury or loss of form intervenes.

There are indeed a number of good prospects in the pipeline but they are just that - prospects. Lyttle, Kernohan and Balacoune provide an intriguing prospect along with Stockdale and the forgotten man, Gilroy.


Perhaps the most eagerly anticipated wing is Aaron Sexton. 10.5 / 100m or thereabouts as a schoolboy sounds the dog's wossnames. Can he play rugby though? It seems at schools level he is really good but we have seen other mega talented schools' players be hyped to the heavens by the likes of Tony Ward who wanted Dardis in the Irish squad at one time.

Shefwedfan

ClanofLams wrote: »

I wasn’t talking about Earls specifically more responding to your comment he should drop anyone who won’t make 2023.

If Earls is still the best winger available he will be picked. If not he won’t be. From Farrell’s point of view, two poor six nations showing and he’s probably out the door. No point worrying about 2023 then.

Four years is such a long time anyway that most squad development happens naturally without it needing to be a priority in the first couple of years. Look at Schmidt playing Reddan in South Africa in 2016 or Donnacha Ryan in the 2017 6N when he was off to France that summer.

D Ryan was played because James Ryan wasn't ready to be thrown into a 6 nations. Do you really think Joe would have let D Ryan go if he didn't think James Ryan was the replacement?



It's a balance, SA without Sexton meant they couldn't throw a young 9 & 10 into the fray. The plan was to win that tour.



As I said, Ireland has plenty of experience around the park and in the backs, drop Earls and you will have Stockdale/Ringrose/Henshaw/C Farrell/Aki who will have huge experience....all of whom will be available for next WC


I think Ireland need to get into a WC cycle, they have moved to that for the coach so why not the players. I am not saying mass exodus but if it makes sense. Playing Earls for 2 6 nations to drop him for the 3rd doesn't make sense. Getting a young winger in now and giving him 4 6 nations so they are ready for a WC make sense


Also in squad, drop the McFaddens etc and replace with young players, I know that is already happening

From an Earls point of view, dropping out of the Ireland squad and concentrating on Munster could give him another year of rugby.....

thomond2006

He can't drop out. Nobody does. The IRFU aren't paying him Irish starter money to have him only available to Munster. There's a reason why nobody retires from Ireland duty.

ClanofLams

There’s no point weakening Ireland’s chance in the 6N in 2020 or 2021 by any margin for a World Cup in 2023. Obviously Ireland are far more likely to win the six nations than a World Cup and it’s very important to keep doing well from financial/commercial perspectives,etc.

There’s plenty of international games these day and two years out is more than sufficient to making calls based on the World Cup.

Ireland have never done it and will not start now. There are other examples than Reddan/Ryan, Tommy Bowe was involved in 2017 6N and there was very slim/no chance of him making 2019 as a 35 year old winger.

Farrell will be in a precarious position, Ireland have gotten used to success under Schmidt and even two average six nations will have him under pressure. If he thinks Earls is the best choice for a match in 2020/2021 he will pick him, rightfully so.

Former Former

thomond2006 wrote: »

He can't drop out. Nobody does. The IRFU aren't paying him Irish starter money to have him only available to Munster. There's a reason why nobody retires from Ireland duty.

David Humphreys did, but that's more than 10 years ago and he wasn't being picked at that stage anyway.

These days, you get put into international retirement by virtue of the coach not picking you.

sydthebeat

aloooof

Former Former wrote: »

David Humphreys did, but that's more than 10 years ago and he wasn't being picked at that stage anyway.

These days, you get put into international retirement by virtue of the coach not picking you.

Agreed, but that's entirely different from what ShefWedFan was suggesting; that Earls himself would retire to lengthen his Munster career.

Buer

Former Former wrote: »

David Humphreys did, but that's more than 10 years ago and he wasn't being picked at that stage anyway.

These days, you get put into international retirement by virtue of the coach not picking you.

Even DH never really retired. I suspect he just asked not to be considered and, given the utterly atrocious way EOS treated him in the 2006 6N, he went along with it. But EOS was on the record later on saying DH was available if needed:

"I was hoping he would stay on but I understood why he left, " the Irish coach told The Irish Times in May of last year. "But he did say to me when he was stepping down, 'Look, if you are stuck at any point I would consider the possibility of coming back. I'm playing for Ulster and if you think I'm playing well enough and you need me, I'd be happy to help out.'

Dubinusa

The summer tour next year will most likely see some new faces.
Lads like Boyle; Jgp, Kleyn, maybe Balacoune or Lyttle.
Some re introduction like JOD, Treadwell Moore.
I'd expect 5 or 6 new faces.
There's also others who could be worth looking at , EOS, Delahunt, SOB 2, dare I say Penny and Wren?

troyzer

Dubinusa wrote: »

The summer tour next year will most likely see some new faces.
Lads like Boyle; Jgp, Kleyn, maybe Balacoune or Lyttle.
Some re introduction like JOD, Treadwell Moore.
I'd expect 5 or 6 new faces.
There's also others who could be worth looking at , EOS, Delahunt, SOB 2, dare I say Penny and Wren?

Harry Byrne might make a cameo, long shot though.

Eod100

troyzer wrote: »

Harry Byrne might make a cameo, long shot though.

Probably a bit early next year but think Schmidt name checked him before so must be on IRFU's radar.

The Lost Sheep

Dubinusa wrote: »

The summer tour next year will most likely see some new faces.
Lads like Boyle; Jgp, Kleyn, maybe Balacoune or Lyttle.
Some re introduction like JOD, Treadwell Moore.
I'd expect 5 or 6 new faces.
There's also others who could be worth looking at , EOS, Delahunt, SOB 2, dare I say Penny and Wren?

All depends on how we do in world cup. Could be lot more than 5/6 new faces.

troyzer wrote: »

Harry Byrne might make a cameo, long shot though.

Too long a shot IMO.

Southdubin6

troyzer wrote: »

Harry Byrne might make a cameo, long shot though.

Way too early for Harry in my opinion but soon

Former Former

The 2020 tour is to Australia, there won't be a mass influx of young players.

Jewelers

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I'm hearing that Kilcoyne being selected ahead of Jack McGrath is happening to "incentivise" McGrath to move to Ulster.

ah cop on

Heymans

Former Former wrote: »

The 2020 tour is to Australia, there won't be a mass influx of young players.

It all depends on Farrell selection policy and who is in his back room with him. If Lancaster is there I wouldn't rule out seeing some green youngsters but I get the feeling Farrell likes his bisch bosch players and will be fielding beefy older teams.

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

Agreed, but that's entirely different from what ShefWedFan was suggesting; that Earls himself would retire to lengthen his Munster career.

I don't think it is crazy idea, at next renewal Earls will not get a central contract. So take himself out to get some proper rest during the season and I am sure Declan Kidney would love ot give him a bit of a payday over in UK for 1-2 seasons.....



I don't think any Irish or Munster fan would begrudge him

Some Yoke

Quinn Roux or Henderson for Italy? Rouxs jersey to lose for the time being I think, the Henderson Ryan combo wasn't great in the line out in their last outing

flatface

The Lost Sheep

flatface wrote: »

For those who dont go into club thread....

lots AIL games on this weekend for those who want a rugby fix
All Saturday 2.30 unless stated otherwise
1A
Cork Con v Clontarf, Trinity v UCC, Garryowen v Terenure, Lansdowne v Shannon, UCD v Young Munster

1B
St Marys v Naas, Ballynahinch v Old Wesley, Malone v Banbridge, Old Belvedere v Ballymena, Armagh v Buccaneers

2A
Friday 8pm
Nenagh v Old Crescent, UL Bohs v Cashel
Saturday
Blackrock v Dolphin, Galwegians v Highfield, Queens v Navan
2B
Belfast Quins v Rainey Old Boys, Dungannon v Wanderers, Barnhall v Corinthians, Sligo v Skerries, Sundays Well v Greystones
2C
Bangor v Seapoint, Malahide v Tullamore, Midleton v Ballina, Omagh v Bruff, Thomond v City of Derry

flatface

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

For those who dont go into club thread....

lots AIL games on this weekend for those who want a rugby fix
All Saturday 2.30 unless stated otherwise
1A
Cork Con v Clontarf, Trinity v UCC, Garryowen v Terenure, Lansdowne v Shannon, UCD v Young Munster

1B
St Marys v Naas, Ballynahinch v Old Wesley, Malone v Banbridge, Old Belvedere v Ballymena, Armagh v Buccaneers

2A
Friday 8pm
Nenagh v Old Crescent, UL Bohs v Cashel
Saturday
Blackrock v Dolphin, Galwegians v Highfield, Queens v Navan
2B
Belfast Quins v Rainey Old Boys, Dungannon v Wanderers, Barnhall v Corinthians, Sligo v Skerries, Sundays Well v Greystones
2C
Bangor v Seapoint, Malahide v Tullamore, Midleton v Ballina, Omagh v Bruff, Thomond v City of Derry

Still though...

The Rape of Lucretia

Club Rugby ! Blimey, there's a blast from the past.
You almost forget that it still exists these days. So retro, but nice to know its still there.

Eod100

flatface wrote: »

Pro14, Premiership, Top 14, Super rugby, club rugby etc. Plenty on this weekend!

P.Walnuts

Some Yoke wrote: »

Quinn Roux or Henderson for Italy? Rouxs jersey to lose for the time being I think, the Henderson Ryan combo wasn't great in the line out in their last outing

With all due respect to Roux, a fit Henderson is on a different planet. No brainer for me

b.gud

P.Walnuts wrote: »

With all due respect to Roux, a fit Henderson is on a different planet. No brainer for me

I wonder might we actually see both start against Italy? If you start Roux and Henderson Ryan gets a break, either bench or not played at all, and Henderson gets a chance to get back to match fitness.

Burkie1203

b.gud wrote: »

I wonder might we actually see both start against Italy? If you start Roux and Henderson Ryan gets a break, either bench or not played at all, and Henderson gets a chance to get back to match fitness.

Then Ryan goes 3 weeks without a game prior to France

aloooof

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I don't think it is crazy idea, at next renewal Earls will not get a central contract. So take himself out to get some proper rest during the season and I am sure Declan Kidney would love ot give him a bit of a payday over in UK for 1-2 seasons.....



I don't think any Irish or Munster fan would begrudge him

And that's fine except you've you've completely changed your point. What you initially said was to lengthen his Munster career.

Buer

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Then Ryan goes 3 weeks without a game prior to France

I'd be fine with that. He's 22 so isn't someone that needs games to keep himself fit or get up to speed. He's also started 15 matches already this season and with a very heavy few months ahead of him along with the RWC year, I'd like to see him take a break.

I'd fully expect him to start alongside Henderson though.

Shefwedfan

Buer wrote: »

I'd be fine with that. He's 22 so isn't someone that needs games to keep himself fit or get up to speed. He's also started 15 matches already this season and with a very heavy few months ahead of him along with the RWC year, I'd like to see him take a break.

I'd fully expect him to start alongside Henderson though.

He doesn't need to start a Pro14 match till the Semi so all the Leinster players will get a good rest.....

Bazzo

Buer wrote: »

I'd be fine with that. He's 22 so isn't someone that needs games to keep himself fit or get up to speed. He's also started 15 matches already this season and with a very heavy few months ahead of him along with the RWC year, I'd like to see him take a break.

I'd fully expect him to start alongside Henderson though.

He could also bench against Italy, not starting doesn't mean he doesn't have to play. B.gud actually even said it...

baas baa

Roux is 5th choice lock so too far down the pecking order to invest playing time in for the sake of it, Ryan and Henderson will be the first choice pairing for the rest of the 6n and possibly the WC, so we do need to get them on the pitch together.

jonok28

baas baa wrote: »

Roux is 5th choice lock so too far down the pecking order to invest playing time in for the sake of it, Ryan and Henderson will be the first choice pairing for the rest of the 6n and possibly the WC, so we do need to get them on the pitch together.

Wouldn't mind seeing Beirne and Henderson against Italy if both are healthy.

Eod100

jonok28 wrote: »

Wouldn't mind seeing Beirne and Henderson against Italy if both are healthy.

Henderson could start if he gets through tonight alright. Guess Beirne could come off bench as he doesn't feature with Munster tonight. Is there usually an updated squad announcement sometime next week ahead of rounds 3 and 4?

Former Former

jonok28 wrote: »

Wouldn't mind seeing Beirne and Henderson against Italy if both are healthy.

Was there an update on Beirne?

There's a good chance that Ryan and Henderson is our first choice pairing when everyone is fit, let's get them playing together.

Buer

JVG said earlier this week that Beirne is a few weeks away. I'd guess that the best case scenario for him is to be involved with Munster possibly against the Ospreys and Scarlets in some capacity with a mind to being available for the French and Welsh games.

Clegg

None of Henshaw, Ringrose or Addison trained for Ireland today. Starting to look very light on centres.

After the England and Scotland games we're in desperate need of Ringrose's quality at 13.

arsebiscuits1

Clegg wrote: »

None of Henshaw, Ringrose or Addison trained for Ireland today. Starting to look very light on centres.

After the England and Scotland games we're in desperate need of Ringrose's quality at 13.

Hopefully they're all minor issues they're all working out.

But even still. We've Italy next week where we should have Farrell and Aki if none of the above make it.

Then another week off before France.

That's plenty of time to get the bodies right

jonok28

Former Former wrote: »

Was there an update on Beirne?

There's a good chance that Ryan and Henderson is our first choice pairing when everyone is fit, let's get them playing together.

Joe said he is hopeful that Beirne will be available for the Italy game.

Eod100

jonok28 wrote: »

Joe said he is hopeful that Beirne will be available for the Italy game.

Just reading up that he's only back running this week so might be a bit too soon

Eod100

Who needs pool noodles?! :P https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1096370442120712192?s=19

Southdubin6

Eod100 wrote: »

Who needs pool noodles?! :P https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/status/1096370442120712192?s=19

Seen this today at the open training session. He’s so involved it’s unreal, first time I seen him at a session and he was out with forwards too.

Clegg

Andy Farrell says Henshaw will train next week, but that Ringrose will need to be assessed further over the weekend. Sexton trained and will be good to go against Italy.

Tadhg Beirne is "progressing well" but nowhere near a certainty to take part against Italy.

Zzippy

Very much doubt Beirne will feature if he's not getting gametime for Munster this week. He's not in the category of players who can walk back into the team without featuring for their province and proving their fitness. He won't have had a game since the Exeter game. Assuming Henderson gets through tonight, it should be Hendo Ryan or Hendo Roux to start against Italy.