Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

Shefwedfan

Christy42 wrote: »

How many more caps did Gilroy get? Schmidt hardly took it as a masterclass performance from Gilroy. He seems to have been serious with his analysis.

Gilroy got a few runs, I remember him playing against Argentina in Aviva once as well.....I think that was before the Italy game

ionadnapokot

Excerpts of email from The 42 - Murray Kinsella
....................................
There’s a small travelling pack of Irish media here in the Algarve to report from Ireland’s training camp at The Campus in Quinta do Lago, where they’ve been since last Wednesday, slogging away under the kind of sun that sends some Irish people scuttling for the shadows until evening time. A little unsurprisingly, Rob Kearney appears to be edging the contest for the best tan in the Ireland squad at the moment, although Conor Murray and Jordi Murphy are contenders.

There are just six of us Irish journalists on the ground here and dealings with Ireland so far have been friendly and relaxed, relatively speaking. Any ideas of watching Joe Schmidt’s squad training yesterday were scuppered after the usual 10 minutes of ‘vision access’ when we were rounded up, herded into a waiting taxi van and kindly deposited at Eoin O’Malley’s nearby gastropub, The Cheeky Pup, until being collected again to return for a post-training session press conference.

But there is a cordial atmosphere in Schmidt’s camp, to be fair, and their set-up at The Campus is very impressive. They visited The Cheeky Pup themselves last weekend to celebrate Rory Best’s 37th birthday, just one element of a week in Portugal that they feel has bonded the group even further. In short, the vibes are solid ahead of that England clash.

Eng Game:
The superb weather is set to continue when Ireland shift onwards to London on Thursday, with the current forecast for Saturday predicting temperatures of around 27°C. Not all of Schmidt’s 40-man squad will head to the UK for the game, with those not involved in the match day squad instead returning home to Ireland a couple of days earlier.
..............................

Among the aspects we’ll be watching closely is both teams’ kicking, with this set to be an intriguing part of the World Cup. As we detailed last week, Ireland didn’t kick off their scrum-halves a single time against Italy, instead exiting through the boot of Joey Carbery wide to their right.

The box kick has been a hugely frustrating part of the game for Ireland in recent times, having previously been a key strength. Referees seem very content to allow very noticeable ‘escorting’ off the ball, with retreating defensive teams blocking chasing players from getting up into aerial contests. Perhaps referees are content not to see the kind of contests that had been resulting in yellow and red cards, but whatever the reason, Ireland have been very frustrated.
.......................

Seeing New Zealand’s scrum-halves dinking short kicks over the top of rucks into space in front of the backfield defenders against Australia was intriguing, while Scotland’s George Horne did something very similar late on in their defeat to France. Who will be next to explore this space after shaping to box kick longer, how will defences adapt to the possible threat, how will the kicking teams then take advantage of that adaptation? This, perhaps sadly, is the kind of thing that gets us excited.

Grubber kicks from wider in the backline are also likely to be an important tool, given how much pressure first receivers are under most of the time. Garry Ringrose has developed this side of his game with Ireland, of course. Johnny Sexton is a very capable attacking kicker too, so his contributions in this area will be fascinating. Wales were hanging Garryowens on top of Elliot Daly last weekend too, so there is loads to look forward to in this World Cup.

Shefwedfan

As long as no dwarf throwing in the Cheeky Pup it is all good

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Team is

Healy, Best, Furlong,
Kleyn, Henderson,
POM, CJ, VDF;

Murray, Byrne,
Ak, Ringrose ,
Stockdale, Larmour, Kearney

Interesting to see how the pack go there. Obviously looking to hold on to the ball for longer periods than we usually would. Not sure where we’d build scores from though.

Good ball carrying up front potentially with Healy, Furlong, Hendo and CJ. Ringrose will hopefully continue to act as an additional playmaker while I think Aki does bring a bit more creativity to the midfield than Henshaw. How Byrne fits in to all of that will be interesting. Would like to see Larmour in particular popping up in midfield a bit.

radharc

radharc wrote: »

Reading Gordon D’Arcy in the Times this morning would send the stress levels up...

I'm a little surprised at this article by D'Arcy to be honest and I'd go so far as to say it's dishonest in parts.

How we played and structured our play against Italy is no representation of anything other than how we decided to go about winning that game, what combinations Joe wanted to look at and what work on's he wanted to see exercised.

As far as Joe was concerned he might have wanted Carbery to take the cross field option often and early because this is something he felt he needed to work on in a competitive environment. Perhaps there are other reasons. Maybe our play style is to go back to the O'Gara days.

I'm pretty sure D'Arcy knows full well what these games are about. Yes, we want to build momentum - but mostly we want to be warmed up for the World cup, with our first choice 23 known to the coaches and all of them conditioned to the standard of rugby they'll need to play to win the tournament.

Deleted User wrote: »

Team is

Healy, Best, Furlong,
Kleyn, Henderson,
POM, CJ, VDF;

Murray, Byrne,
Ak, Ringrose ,
Stockdale, Larmour, Kearney

The two interesting selections here are Kleyn and Byrne.

Joe must see something he likes in Kleyn, he's giving him a telling amount of minutes now and it suggests to me that he's moved beyond being considered for selection and is in fact a likely contender for Japan. This isn't about getting a look at him anymore, this is about Kleyn being match ready for World cup rugby in a team with a complex play style.

Byrne is less obvious. He gives the squad a more like for like replacement for a presumably injured Sexton. He is either in a similar situation as Klyne and needs minutes in a cauldron like Twickenham, or he is the most expendable option against an ultra physical England.

Former Former

AdamD wrote: »

I struggle to take anyone seriously who's genuinely worried about us getting out of the group

He also has us below Australia, baffling stuff.

You're probably baffled because he said neither of those things.

Dave Kearney on the wing is the most interesting selection

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Dave Kearney on the wing is the most interesting selection

I misread that as Larmour Stockdale wing and Bobby K at the back.

Yes - that is interesting.

If Ireland win the World Cup with both Kearndashians on the pitch I might never leave the Munster thread again.

AdamD

Former Former wrote: »

You're probably baffled because he said neither of those things.

Maybe my reading comprehension is different to yours.

Below Australia:

England in August 2019 are genuine contenders. We experienced their power surge last February. They are right up there with the ’Boks and All Blacks. Wales are in decent shape too, while Michael Cheika has turned Australia into a gang well capable of causing a tremor or two in Japan. In ball players like James O’Connor and Kurtley Beale, they boast an increasingly rare commodity in modern rugby.

Right now, I feel Ireland are sitting below this list of contenders. Just above the unpredictable French and Pumas.

Worried about getting out of the group:

We’ll get to the encyclopedic knowledge they have compiled on Irish rugby closer to the World Cup quarter-final. But I’m not thinking about that game anymore. Right now, the path to the knockout stages is blocked by far too many obstacles.

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

I misread that as Larmour Stockdale wing and Bobby K at the back.

.

i still read that as larmour and stockdale on the wings with R kearney at 15.

i cant for the life of me see why D kearney would get 2 starts in the warm ups when hes most likely to be cut.

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

when hes most likely to be cut.

typhoony

my gut instinct tells me that it's 99% likely that Joe will leave one of Beirne or Cronin out of the travelling squad when it is announced. very poor judgment if that's the case.

Burkie1203

sydthebeat wrote: »

i cant for the life of me see why D kearney would get 2 starts in the warm ups when hes most likely to be cut.

Joe just doesn't like the Mods on boards.ie

Burkie1203

typhoony wrote: »

my gut instinct tells me that it's 99% likely that Joe will leave one of Beirne or Cronin out of the travelling squad when it is announced. very poor judgment if that's the case.

Cronin Best and Herring/Scannell will travel IMO

I would much rather Beirne over Kleyn as i feel Beirne offers something different to Henderson and Ryan but I think Kleyn will travel

Only taking the piss. Its rob kearney.

typhoony

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Cronin Best and Herring/Scannell will travel IMO

I would much rather Beirne over Kleyn as i feel Beirne offers something different to Henderson and Ryan but I think Kleyn will travel

I've a nasty feeling it will be Best, Herring and Scannell that will travel

Faugheen

sydthebeat wrote: »

i still read that as larmour and stockdale on the wings with R kearney at 15.

i cant for the life of me see why D kearney would get 2 starts in the warm ups when hes most likely to be cut.

Probably because Joe is strongly considering bringing him.

EDIT: Saw the above post. Stand down!

Henry Ford III

Deleted User wrote: »

Only taking the piss. Its rob kearney.

Former Former

Faugheen wrote: »

Probably because Joe is strongly considering bringing him.

EDIT: Saw the above post. Stand down!

I still wouldn't rule it out. If Larmour gets the nod this weekend, you'd assume he's on the plane. That probably leaves one spot between Addison, Conway and Dave K - Addison's versatility might give him the edge but not a done deal by any stretch.

aloooof

radharc wrote: »

Reading Gordon D’Arcy in the Times this morning would send the stress levels up...

One interesting line from it that's an interesting comparison:

But, right now, on August 21st, 2019, our best starting XV doesn’t feel as good as the side Paul O’Connell led into battle against France four years ago when Seán O’Brien, Johnny Sexton, Rory Best, Rob Kearney and Jamie Heaslip were in their prime.

I think it's an awful lot closer than he's making it; I've highlighted the position I think would have the edge, and the rest are pretty close, taking into account form, experience etc.

The one position that sticks out is 13. It'd take an awful lot more than just one injury (in 2015's case, to Payne) for Earls to find himself playing in midfield again, I'd imagine.

| 2015 | 2019
1 | Healy | Healy
2 | Best | Best
3 | Ross | Furlong
4 | Toner | Toner / Henderson
5 | POC | Ryan
6 | POM | POM
7 | SOB | VdF
8 | Heaslip | Stander
9 | Murray | Murray
10 | Sexton | Sexton
11 | Dave Kearney | Stockdale
12 | Henshaw | Aki / Henshaw
13 | Earls | Ringrose
14 | Bowe | Earls
15 | Kearney | Kearney

ClanofLams

Murray and Sexton in particular last season were a pale shadow of their best form. Of course the quality of the ball they were getting has an impact but even allowing for that they were significantly below their usual high standards.

Rob Kearney is still Irelands best 15 but it’s difficult to believe at 33 he is as capable as he was four years ago.

Not that it’s all doom and gloom, expect Ireland to beat Scotland and Japan, would have Boks/NZ game as fifty fifty. If they could get over that would rate them as favourites against Wales presumably.

It’s a fairly open World Cup. Ireland of 2018 shouldn’t fear anyone, Ireland of 2019 thus far won’t be getting beyond quarter finals.

molloyjh

AdamD wrote: »

Former Former wrote: »

You're probably baffled because he said neither of those things.

Maybe my reading comprehension is different to yours.

Below Australia:

England in August 2019 are genuine contenders. We experienced their power surge last February. They are right up there with the ’Boks and All Blacks. Wales are in decent shape too, while Michael Cheika has turned Australia into a gang well capable of causing a tremor or two in Japan. In ball players like James O’Connor and Kurtley Beale, they boast an increasingly rare commodity in modern rugby.

Right now, I feel Ireland are sitting below this list of contenders. Just above the unpredictable French and Pumas.

Worried about getting out of the group:

We’ll get to the encyclopedic knowledge they have compiled on Irish rugby closer to the World Cup quarter-final. But I’m not thinking about that game anymore. Right now, the path to the knockout stages is blocked by far too many obstacles.

I think you're reading into that last bit too much. He also said:

Sure, the team is good enough to win Pool A, with a glut of tries from Jacob Stockdale and Keith Earls probably securing top spot before the final game against Samoa. That allows 15 days’ preparation before South Africa or New Zealand in the quarter-finals.

But that’s where it ends unless Ireland’s attack improves.

I think he's pretty clear in saying that the obstacles are our own to overcome or falter at. We need to develop our game and we can't wait until the RWC to implement that. We need to build momentum and confidence in what we are looking to do. Fail to do that and he doesn't see us getting past SA.

Rigor Mortis

2019 Toner is better than 2015 Toner.
2019 Ryan is a better player than Paulie was that year. Not a better leader, but a better player. (Awaits abuse)
2019 Earls is probably better than Bowe
2019 VdF is on a par with Seanie in 2015
on the other side
Peter is probably not as good as in 15
Hard to know with Kearney

Clegg

Kearney has the wonderful ability to raise his game for the big occasion. I've given up trying to assess his form.

Agree with you on Ryan. As an individual player he's better than PoC was in 2015. But PoC was still very good back then and he had the ability to raise the overall performance of the pack by small margins.

ClanofLams

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

2019 Toner is better than 2015 Toner.
2019 Ryan is a better player than Paulie was that year. Not a better leader, but a better player. (Awaits abuse)
2019 Earls is probably better than Bowe
2019 VdF is on a par with Seanie in 2015
on the other side
Peter is probably not as good as in 15
Hard to know with Kearney

Ryan has an edge in carrying but if I was offered one for this World Cup I’d take O’Connell. Not that there’s much in it, two world class players.

Can’t remember the form of SOB in 15 in detail to be honest but not sure about VdF being ahead.

AbusesToilets

aloooof wrote: »

One interesting line from it that's an interesting comparison:



I think it's an awful lot closer than he's making it; I've highlighted the position I think would have the edge, and the rest are pretty close, taking into account form, experience etc.

The one position that sticks out is 13. It'd take an awful lot more than just one injury (in 2015's case, to Payne) for Earls to find himself playing in midfield again, I'd imagine.

| 2015 | 2019
1 | Healy | Healy
2 | Best | Best
3 | Ross | Furlong
4 | Toner | Toner / Henderson
5 | POC | Ryan
6 | POM | POM
7 | SOB | VdF
8 | Heaslip | Stander
9 | Murray | Murray
10 | Sexton | Sexton
11 | Dave Kearney | Stockdale
12 | Henshaw | Aki / Henshaw
13 | Earls | Ringrose
14 | Bowe | Earls
15 | Kearney | Kearney

At this stage, I'd say Ryan is a better player than POC. I say that in terms of what he can do as a rugby player. He's far more effective and able with the ball than Paulie ever was. He's only going to get better.

Shefwedfan

ClanofLams wrote: »

Ryan has an edge in carrying but if I was offered one for this World Cup I’d take O’Connell. Not that there’s much in it, two world class players.

Can’t remember the form of SOB in 15 in detail to be honest but not sure about VdF being ahead.

SOB was in cracking form and was a huge loss in the qtr that never happened



Personally and I love Ryan.....I would take POC at this min, his affect on the team was huge, such a character.


Ryan off the bench would be lovely

Shefwedfan

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

2019 Toner is better than 2015 Toner.
2019 Ryan is a better player than Paulie was that year. Not a better leader, but a better player. (Awaits abuse)
2019 Earls is probably better than Bowe
2019 VdF is on a par with Seanie in 2015
on the other side
Peter is probably not as good as in 15
Hard to know with Kearney

VdF for all his worth is not better than SOB in 2015.....people forget very quickly.



I think the back row had a better balance in 2015 with Heaslip at 8 , SOB and POM.....


Kearney 2015 is better than now in terms of speed etc, but our game plan has changed now so Kearney 2019 experience and awareness of where the ball will be is better.....Still our best option at 15 by a long way

Clegg

I'd love to see Conan get a start alongside PoM and VdF. Last season his form was such that he was probably the best backrow in the country.

Shefwedfan

Clegg wrote: »

I'd love to see Conan get a start alongside PoM and VdF. Last season his form was such that he was probably the best backrow in the country.

Personally would love to see Standar VdF and Conan get a run and see how it goes

If not swap VdF for POM and see that formation

AbusesToilets

Sorry if already posted earlier. Fantastic conversation with BOD and Rog.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkX4y3QSHMA

aloooof

ClanofLams wrote: »

Murray and Sexton in particular last season were a pale shadow of their best form. Of course the quality of the ball they were getting has an impact but even allowing for that they were significantly below their usual high standards.

Murray was injured for a large spell, but Sexton in particular I thought was very good up until Christmas. Lets not forget the All Blacks game, for example, was in November of last season.

From the Munster match in Thomond onwards, and obviously through the 6 Nations, Sexton lost form but it wasn't a complete write-off of a season for him.

Leinster still got to the European final

Shefwedfan

aloooof wrote: »

Murray was injured for a large spell, but Sexton in particular I thought was very good up until Christmas. Lets not forget the All Blacks game, for example, was in November of last season.

From the Munster match in Thomond onwards, and obviously through the 6 Nations, Sexton lost form but it wasn't a complete write-off of a season for him.

Watch him against Toulouse in the semi final....he was class

Even when he got a run against Munster in other semi he really showed what he can do.....


Even in the final he had ok game.....

I said it at the time, Sexton played a lot of rugby early on in season. If I remember correctly he started a number of Pro 14 games which normally you would never see him near it. I think I even posted it looked like Leinster/Ireland planned to play all his match's early in season and let him sit back for last few months. The injury at Christmas just threw off him form.

Up till the injury he was the number 1 10 in the World by a distance. Nobody touched him. Even Barret was a good but back bar some flashy stuff

He had an ok 6 nations, the last game was a disaster. But then the whole team was off and the forwards were been beaten up so not sure why the finger is constantly pointed at Sexton/Murray.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpMD5qnqX_M

Live presser

VANG1

Really love to see us being written off, underdog tag suits us and we will have a right crack at the quarterfinal. Joe will have us ready and a game plan. Keep the faith.

Sabre0001

Rugby's a funny old game, especially with rankings coming into it. We had a bad Six Nations and 2019 is doom and gloom after so many people had us favourites for World Cup...yet this weekend we could be ranked #1 in the world and somehow still underdogs going into World Cup

kuang1

That pack is immense. Can't wait to see the battle between the forwards on Saturday.
Could be veeeeeeeery bruising.

sydthebeat

lucozade sport raspberry...... yuk !

AdamD

sydthebeat wrote: »

lucozade sport raspberry...... yuk !

That's the nicest one.


Big calls in the England game.

Beirne covering back row
Ross Byrne gets a start beside Murray
Kleyn in again
Luke McGrath sub 9

roverjoyce

AdamD wrote: »

That's the nicest one.


Big calls in the England game.

Beirne covering back row
Ross Byrne gets a start beside Murray
Kleyn in again
Luke McGrath sub 9

Who's covering 8
Who's covering 7
Who are the ball carriers in the back row
Why do we need 2 second rows on the bench

Clegg

Pretty clear that for this game Beirne is covering the backrow. He's being given the chance to show his versatility. I don't think he's being brought to the WC as lock so his only chance is in the backrow.

ionadnapokot

AdamD wrote: »

That's the nicest one.


Big calls in the England game.

Beirne covering back row
Ross Byrne gets a start beside Murray
Kleyn in again
Luke McGrath sub 9

you're mad

This looks like confirmation that both Kleyn & Beirne are going.

This is Byrne's big chance & maybe McGrath...Although, im sure Marmion will go as the other OH

And what the hell is wrong with Henshaw now?

ionadnapokot

roverjoyce wrote: »

Who's covering 8
Who's covering 7
Who are the ball carriers in the back row
Why do we need 2 second rows on the bench

Beirne
POM and CJ
CJ. Again and Again and Again
Beirne is now the 5 and a half

PTH2009

Who's after Cooney if he gets hurt ??

Jesus imagine if Sexton got concussed, Carberry not recovering in time, Bryne being ****e and then Cooney gets hurt

Clegg

Neither CJ or PoM can cover 7 to an acceptable standard at even club level. Right now VdF is Ireland's most important player after Sexton.

AdamD

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Beirne
POM and CJ
CJ. Again and Again and Again
Beirne is now the 5 and a half

JVDF's carrying isn't the non-entity its sometimes made out to be. He picks good lines and generally hits the ball at pace.

Squidgy Black

PTH2009 wrote: »

Who's after Cooney if he gets hurt ??

Jesus imagine if Sexton got concussed, Carberry not recovering in time, Bryne being ****e and then Cooney gets hurt

Cooney's not in the squad? If you're asking who would be the 5th choice scrum half it'd probably be Blade.

ionadnapokot

Clegg wrote: »

Neither CJ or PoM can cover 7 to an acceptable standard at even club level. Right now VdF is Ireland's most important player after Sexton.

U What?:)
Tis only a number

ionadnapokot

AdamD wrote: »

JVDF's carrying isn't the non-entity its sometimes made out to be. He picks good lines and generally hits the ball at pace.

Sure does
Was joking about the fact that CJ is still going to be trucking up the ball countless times.