Ireland Team Talk X: The Long Hard Road to a Semi. MOD WARNING POSTS #1, #1474, #5707

PTH2009

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Cooney's not in the squad? If you're asking who would be the 5th choice scrum half it'd probably be Blade.

Murray and Rob Kearney can kick if needs be

Hopefully the injury curse ****s off for this world cup

Mr Tickle

PTH2009 wrote: »

Murray and Rob Kearney can kick if needs be

Hopefully the injury curse ****s off for this world cup

If you meant who's after Byrne/Carty, Then it's probably Billy Burns & Tyler Bleyendaal. Or maybe Rory Scannell gets into the squad to bench as a 10/12.

WeleaseWoderick

After being a bit "rugby-ed out" towards the end of last season, seeing such a strong team named for this game has piqued by interest again big time.

Hoping for a strong outing from that pack and to see even a glimpse of pre-injury Conor Murray. Praying nothing happens to VDF as the drop off behind him is the biggest in any position with Leavy out.

PTH2009

PTH2009 wrote: »

Who's after Cooney if he gets hurt ??

Jesus imagine if Sexton got concussed, Carberry not recovering in time, Bryne being ****e and then Cooney gets hurt

Then someone pissing in your cornflakes. Every morning.

Christy42

PTH2009 wrote: »

Who's after Cooney if he gets hurt ??

Jesus imagine if Sexton got concussed, Carberry not recovering in time, Bryne being ****e and then Cooney gets hurt

You missed off Carty. But really our strength in depth at fly half is terrible when we can't suffer 4 injuries and a dramatic loss of form in a 5th and still be ok shape?

Is that the argument?

If it happens I will start believing in curses and Ireland will stop sending serious teams to the world cup because it is obviously hopeless if fate will screw with us that badly.


Right now we are unlikely to even have Cooney in a minute of game time. Never mind get him injured.

Former Former

What's the story with Conan? Is he injured? If not, is this a bit ominous for him?

Dave Kilcoyne, same question.

sydthebeat

as it hasnt been posted yet.....




Ireland team to face England

15. Rob Kearney

14. Jordan Larmour

13. Garry Ringrose

12. Bundee Aki

11. Jacob Stockdale

10. Ross Byrne

9. Conor Murray

1. Cian Healy

2. Rory Best (C)

3. Tadhg Furlong

4. Iain Henderson

5. Jean Kleyn

6. Peter O'Mahony

7. Josh van der Flier

8. CJ Stander



Replacements

16. Sean Cronin

17. Jack McGrath

18. Andrew Porter

19. Devin Toner

20. Tadhg Beirne

21. Luke McGrath

22. Jack Carty

23. Andrew Conway

Shefwedfan

Interesting the 678....that is a lot of peoples first choice. I think this is the chance for those 3 to nail those jerseys for the WC

If not then Joe will have to mix it up.

thebaz

are Earls and Henshaw injured ??

massive game , test to see have we really moved on from 6 Nations , or do we have the usual WC jitters.

Massive game for Murray , hopefully he returns to form ,

sydthebeat

England: Elliot Daly; Joe Cokanasiga, Manu Tuilagi, Owen Farrell, Jonny May; George Ford, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Jamie George, Kyle Sinckler; Maro Itoje, George Kruis; Tom Curry, Sam Underhill, Billy Vunipola.

Replacements: Luke Cowan-Dickie, Mako Vunipola, Dan Cole, Courtney Lawes, Mark Wilson, Willi Heinz, Piers Francis, Jonathan Joseph.

Burkie1203

Peyper replaced by Nigel for Saturday

sydthebeat

noticeable points

ford farrell 10 - 12
we need to drop bombs on cokanasiga and daly
probably englands 1st choice back row too

sydthebeat

England gone from -6 to -9 after the team announcements

AdamD

England going full whack

Mucky_Tackies

PTH2009 wrote: »

Who's after Cooney if he gets hurt ??

Jesus imagine if Sexton got concussed, Carberry not recovering in time, Bryne being ****e and then Cooney gets hurt

If we're imagining things, may as well imagine positive things pal. Be a wreck otherwise!

WeleaseWoderick

Thought I saw previously that this is on Channel 4 but doesn't appear on their listings for Saturday.

Is it only on Sky Sports?

ionadnapokot

sydthebeat wrote: »

England: Elliot Daly; Joe Cokanasiga, Manu Tuilagi, Owen Farrell, Jonny May; George Ford, Ben Youngs; Joe Marler, Jamie George, Kyle Sinckler; Maro Itoje, George Kruis; Tom Curry, Sam Underhill, Billy Vunipola.

Replacements: Luke Cowan-Dickie, Mako Vunipola, Dan Cole, Courtney Lawes, Mark Wilson, Willi Heinz, Piers Francis, Jonathan Joseph.

Round 2
https://twitter.com/SportsJOEdotie/status/1091760619773194240

Clegg

I thought England discarded the Ford-Farrell pairing as it wasn't working? I'm happier Ireland are facing that rather than Tualagi and Slade in the centres.

ManAboutCouch

Clegg wrote: »

Right now VdF is Ireland's most important player after Sexton.

Yep, I agree with this. Give him 40 mins on Saturday and then on the bench for one of the Wales matches. Wrapped up in cotton-wool otherwise. Leavy is such a loss.

sydthebeat

Clegg wrote: »

I thought England discarded the Ford-Farrell pairing as it wasn't working? I'm happier Ireland are facing that rather than Tualagi and Slade in the centres.

interesting listening to Stuart barnes on off the ball, where he said that Tuilagi may as well be a mute, that he says so little on a rugby pitch.
The knock on effect is that the 10 needs another strong voice outside him and Tuilagi at 12 doesnt work like that.

Cookiemunster

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

Thought I saw previously that this is on Channel 4 but doesn't appear on their listings for Saturday.

Is it only on Sky Sports?

AFAIK C4 only have the Ireland and Wales homes games. Sky have England home games.

Mucky_Tackies

"Leavy is such a loss."


As is a firing SOB.

reg114

Have to echo Gordon d'arcy and express concern about Ireland's prospects. We peaked too early and the evidence has been there that we are too one dimensional. I would put us behind Wales and England in the northern hemisphere and way behind the Boks, the All blacks and Australia. Our most recent outing against Italy was a snorefest and I dont accept we played a second string side, nor do I subscribe to the notion that Schmidt is keeping something in reserve for the world cup.

Big question marks now hang over Murray and sexton as far as form are concerned, neither has played anywhere near their 2018 standards. Plus if we see either player injured we are snookered.

My hope is to get to a semi but I think it will be a big stretch and a massive jump inform to achieve that aim.

In the meantime I see us shipping a loss against England this weekend. I wish i could be more positive but my gut says while Schmidt has been brilliant, we need new ideas both on and off the pitch.

Shefwedfan

The England starting back row against the Ireland "starting" back row

This will be the big match up and will be very interesting to see what happens

ionadnapokot

Clegg wrote: »

I thought England discarded the Ford-Farrell pairing as it wasn't working? I'm happier Ireland are facing that rather than Tualagi and Slade in the centres.

Yea -Farrell at 10 is a far more formidable force.
They do have a nice set of options at 10,12 and 13 that have been tried and tested.
Still think its odd what EJ has done selecting the 31 so early. And that he picked Ludlam, and Heinz after 1 Cap. Singleton in from nowhere. Marler back in. Francis back in. Joseph back in. Bizarre stuff. Hope it fails spectacularly!

daddy pig

reg114 wrote: »

Our most recent outing against Italy was a snorefest and I dont accept we played a second string side.

So your starting 23 in the world cup includes Conway, Farrell, Dave Kearney, Luke McGrath, Herring, Kleyn, Ruddock, O'Donnell, Murphy, Scannell, John Ryan, Beirne, Marmion, Carty and Haley?

molloyjh

reg114 wrote: »

Have to echo Gordon d'arcy and express concern about Ireland's prospects. We peaked too early and the evidence has been there that we are too one dimensional. I would put us behind Wales and England in the northern hemisphere and way behind the Boks, the All blacks and Australia. Our most recent outing against Italy was a snorefest and I dont accept we played a second string side, nor do I subscribe to the notion that Schmidt is keeping something in reserve for the world cup.

Big question marks now hang over Murray and sexton as far as form are concerned, neither has played anywhere near their 2018 standards. Plus if we see either player injured we are snookered.

My hope is to get to a semi but I think it will be a big stretch and a massive jump inform to achieve that aim.

In the meantime I see us shipping a loss against England this weekend. I wish i could be more positive but my gut says while Schmidt has been brilliant, we need new ideas both on and off the pitch.

But we did play a weakened team against Italy. That's just a fact. And we beat NZ without Murray so I dont think we're snooker at all if we lose him.

It's been 5 months since the 6Ns. Our form changed drastically in the 3 months from Nov 2018 to Feb 2019. So there's no reason to believe that we cant turn things around in a longer timeframe. We simply dont know whether that has happened yet or not. Let's just hold fire for another few weeks. And while we do it's worth remembering that we dont need to be hitting form now. We need to be hitting it in about 7-8 weeks time. Until then we just need to be moving in the right direction.

thomond2006

Ross Byrne has got a great opportunity starting around the majority of the first team.

sydthebeat

this is our first real test in 5 months so i still expect us to be slow out of the blocks... whereas its Englands 3rd heavy hit out in as many weeks... so whilst some of them (Billy V) they may be tired physically, from a rugby point of view they will be humming.

its from that point of view that i dont think we will win this game, but in the grand scheme thats not exactly the important thing.
I expect a pretty low scoring game... something like 12 - 20 or similar. I think our defense needs to be on point becuase if we defend narrow and give either of those English wings an inch of space they will hurt us.

I want to see Aki give Farrell a torrid time, and try to aim to be hitting him behind the gain line as often as possible.... as i assume Farrell will stand pretty high. I dont want to see us defend narrow with our wings having to bite in. R Kearney will need to be at his marshaling best here.

ionadnapokot

reg114 wrote: »

Have to echo Gordon d'arcy and express concern about Ireland's prospects. We peaked too early and the evidence has been there that we are too one dimensional. I would put us behind Wales and England in the northern hemisphere and way behind the Boks, the All blacks and Australia. Our most recent outing against Italy was a snorefest and I dont accept we played a second string side, nor do I subscribe to the notion that Schmidt is keeping something in reserve for the world cup.

Big question marks now hang over Murray and sexton as far as form are concerned, neither has played anywhere near their 2018 standards. Plus if we see either player injured we are snookered.

My hope is to get to a semi but I think it will be a big stretch and a massive jump inform to achieve that aim.

In the meantime I see us shipping a loss against England this weekend. I wish i could be more positive but my gut says while Schmidt has been brilliant, we need new ideas both on and off the pitch.

Agree with all of the points in bold above. Except the last one!
The strategy is sound with proven results. The execution has been the problem in 2019 and Murray and Sexton have been at the heart of it.
The strategy under Joe has evolved over the years; from kicking game to possession game with tweaks. I expect more tweaks during the warm-ups and RWC with more attacking kicking and more options at 1st receiver. We already saw the start of this v Italy (Brutal performance though).

It will all amount to nothing if your two chief playmakers are playing well below their 2018 level.
Fingers Crossed

Shefwedfan

Mucky_Tackies wrote: »

"Leavy is such a loss."


As is a firing SOB.

SOB was not fired


He has signed for London Irish and would still have been available for WC but.....he is getting his hip rebuilt and was in no way ever going to be fit for WC, he might never play rugby again......hope his surgery goes well

Shefwedfan

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ross Byrne has got a great opportunity starting around the majority of the first team.

For him I hope he has a stormer.....he has really been a excellent player for Leinster and so many people just take him for granted....

bilston

reg114 wrote: »

Have to echo Gordon d'arcy and express concern about Ireland's prospects. We peaked too early and the evidence has been there that we are too one dimensional. I would put us behind Wales and England in the northern hemisphere and way behind the Boks, the All blacks and Australia. Our most recent outing against Italy was a snorefest and I dont accept we played a second string side, nor do I subscribe to the notion that Schmidt is keeping something in reserve for the world cup.

Big question marks now hang over Murray and sexton as far as form are concerned, neither has played anywhere near their 2018 standards. Plus if we see either player injured we are snookered.

My hope is to get to a semi but I think it will be a big stretch and a massive jump inform to achieve that aim.

In the meantime I see us shipping a loss against England this weekend. I wish i could be more positive but my gut says while Schmidt has been brilliant, we need new ideas both on and off the pitch.

I share your concerns over the half backs, we need them at the top of their game, but then you can't win a world cup of your players underperform so it's hardly news anyway.

Regarding the Italy game, whether you accept it or not it was virtually a second string side. IIRC Ringrose and Toner (even that is open to debate) were probably the only guys who started who you'd put in Ireland's strongest XV.

sydthebeat

Shefwedfan wrote: »

SOB was not fired


He has signed for London Irish and would still have been available for WC but.....he is getting his hip rebuilt and was in no way ever going to be fit for WC, he might never play rugby again......hope his surgery goes well

i dont think thats what the poster meant

Kevski

Shefwedfan wrote: »

SOB was not fired


He has signed for London Irish and would still have been available for WC but.....he is getting his hip rebuilt and was in no way ever going to be fit for WC, he might never play rugby again......hope his surgery goes well

He didn’t say that he was fired. He said that a firing (ie firing on all cylinders) SOB is a loss

Shefwedfan

Kevski wrote: »

He didn’t say that he was fired. He said that a firing (ie firing on all cylinders) SOB is a loss

Opp's


Sorry read it the other way:p

wittycynic

A couple of thoughts on the team announcement.

McGrath instead of Kilcoyne on the bench suggests the latter is not going to the WC

Kleyn getting picked again suggests a real likelihood of him getting a spot on the plane if he performs here.

That backrow is pretty small by international standards and could probably do with a Beirne or Henderson at 6 to give us some extra bulk. Risk of England beating us up here.

Byrne ahead of Carty is a clear indication that Schmidt really wasn't happy with Carty after the Italy game. Sexton not being named at all shows that operation "cotton wool" is in full force.

Thought Farrell had a good performance at 12 and would have liked to see him there again this week.

Shefwedfan

wittycynic wrote: »

A couple of thoughts on the team announcement.

McGrath instead of Kilcoyne on the bench suggests the latter is not going to the WC

Kleyn getting picked again suggests a real likelihood of him getting a spot on the plane if he performs here.

That backrow is pretty small by international standards and could probably do with a Beirne or Henderson at 6 to give us some extra bulk. Risk of England beating us up here.

Byrne ahead of Carty is a clear indication that Schmidt really wasn't happy with Carty after the Italy game. Sexton not being named at all shows that operation "cotton wool" is in full force.

Thought Farrell had a good performance at 12 and would have liked to see him there again this week.

Kleyn is going, no point bringing him into the squad now if he wasn't.....he is a different player to the others so gives us options.....especially is a Ryan went down

Backrow I agree.....this is the chance for them to show they wontget beaten up, I hope they don't. But if they do it is time to look at other options and quickly.



Byrne aheads of Carty is because of the uncertainty around Carberry. I don't think it has anythign to do with carty at all. I had a guess B Vunipola would start, with Sexton loving a tackle I would doubt he was ever going to start this game. He has plenty of time against Wales away and then start at home.....I would say Carty starts at Wales away with Sexton off bench, then Sexotn plays the full game at home

Farrell played well but only 4 games till WC, need to test out the centre partnerships.....by the looks of it Ringrose is a starter and then the question is who is the 12

reg114

molloyjh wrote: »

But we did play a weakened team against Italy. That's just a fact. And we beat NZ without Murray so I dont think we're snooker at all if we lose him.

It's been 5 months since the 6Ns. Our form changed drastically in the 3 months from Nov 2018 to Feb 2019. So there's no reason to believe that we cant turn things around in a longer timeframe. We simply dont know whether that has happened yet or not. Let's just hold fire for another few weeks. And while we do it's worth remembering that we dont need to be hitting form now. We need to be hitting it in about 7-8 weeks time. Until then we just need to be moving in the right direction.

I heard the same argument in the weeks before the last World cup when we performed poorly. The problem is lack of momentum. A poor performance against italy continued the underwhelming form that has dogged this ireland side this calendar year. What I meant about us fielding a second string against italy, was that our performance regardless of personnel should have been alot more convincing that it was. If we lose against England at the weekend we have a serious momentum and confidence problem. Winning breeds winning.

Shefwedfan

reg114 wrote: »

I heard the same argument in the weeks before the last World cup when we performed poorly. The problem is lack of momentum. A poor performance against italy continued the underwhelming form that has dogged this ireland side this calendar year. What I meant about us fielding a second string against italy, was that our performance regardless of personnel should have been alot more convincing that it was. If we lose against England at the weekend we have a serious momentum and confidence problem. Winning breeds winning.

Up till the Qtr final Ireland had done very well so no idea why you say we performed poorly?

The problem was we lost half the team in the France match plus we had picked up other injuries and couldn't handle it against a good Argentina team. Still and all if that Madigan kick went over I think we would have went on to win


These things happen.....


In 2011 we won no warm upmatch's and blew our group away including a great win against Oz....

daddy pig

Personally I'd love to see a back row of 6-Henderson, 7-VDF and 8-Stander.
Nobody will bully that backrow the same way England did to us. Also gives us two serious ball carrying threats taking some of the load away from Stander.
The current backrow combo is just too lightweight for my liking.

joseywhales

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The England starting back row against the Ireland "starting" back row

This will be the big match up and will be very interesting to see what happens

I was hoping to see conan but still a great chance for that backrow to prove that they can chop ball carriers like Billy V

joseywhales

With Murray and Byrne I expect we will kick the leather off the ball.

Portsalon

joseywhales wrote: »

With Murray and Byrne I expect we will kick the leather off the ball.

My main worry is whether Murray will deliver fast ball or dither ball to Byrne. If the latter, he'll be destroyed. Perhaps that Joe's cunning plan - to see which of Byrne or Carthy perform better with dither ball.

Faugheen

Big chance for Ross. As someone else pointed out he’s taken for granted when really he is so clutch. He just finds something to win games be it a crossfield kick or a pressure conversion from the touch line. Hopefully he can do himself justice.

aloooof

Portsalon wrote: »

My main worry is whether Murray will deliver fast ball or dither ball to Byrne. If the latter, he'll be destroyed. Perhaps that Joe's cunning plan - to see which of Byrne or Carthy perform better with dither ball.

The speed of ball Byrne gets is a function of Murray's passing. But the speed the ball Murray gets is a function of the quality of clean out from the forwards. If Byrne gets slow ball, it won't all be because Murray has dithered on it.

Plus Byrne probably plays deepest of all 4 OH's in the squad at the moment, so that should give him more time.

Faugheen

aloooof wrote: »

The speed of ball Byrne gets is a function of Murray's passing. But the speed the ball Murray gets is a function of the quality of clean out from the forwards. If Byrne gets slow ball, it won't all be because Murray has dithered on it.

Plus Byrne probably plays deepest of all 4 OH's in the squad at the moment, so that should give him more time.

Exactly this. I think that’s why he’s gone with the Kleyn/Henderson row pairing - last time we played England they bullied us and we needed some enforcers in there to at least compete at the breakdown

If England were in the World Cup final and had the current squad to pick from I reckon this is probably the team.

errlloyd

Deleted User wrote: »

If England were in the World Cup final and had the current squad to pick from I reckon this is probably the team.

Is Slade injured? If not then maybe I think the main change would be him slotting in at 13, Ford dropped and everyone else moves in one.

kingofthekong

England look very very strong, this may not be that competitive