Discovery 2x04 - "An Obol for Charon" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

AMKC

pixelburp wrote: »

I had forgotten that Stamets isn't an engineer technically, right? So if the spores drive is removed it's hard to see a contrivance that'd believably keep him onboard (though iirc he already said he was leaving once they returned to dock). Makes sense Reno might take over as chief engineer - though Tig Nataro does a fair bit of standup I believe so who knows how they'd fit that in.

Yes that's right. I will not miss him if/when he goes. Think his character has run out of steam. Maybe he will save the ship later in the season but get killed something like that. Yes he did say that alright.
Engineering has not really been the focus of any stories yet on this compared to TOS , TNG, VOY hell even Enterprise had more happening in its engineering than Discovery. No warp core breeches or coolant leaks on Discovery yet anyway. The only other show I can think of that never really had much happen there was DS9 but then it did not have a warp core or an engineering section.

TheValeyard

I'd disagree, I'm fed up with them trying to pull a Game of Thrones and kill of main characters. I actually like Stamets. Warmed up to him. If they do have to end his storyline he will probably join the spores as some sort of Federation Ambassador and try to repair the damage he accidentally caused.

Goodshape

Hrm, Stamets is probably my favourite character on the show!

Wouldn't like to see him go and honestly don't expect him to. I didn't sense that it was even in question tbh. He's a scientist on a science ship, plenty to be getting on with.

Tig isn't a replacement; she's an engineer.

Goodshape

Goodshape wrote: »

Hrm, Stamets is probably my favourite character on the show!

Wouldn't like to see him go and honestly don't expect him to. I didn't sense that it was even in question tbh. He's a scientist on a science ship, plenty to be getting on with.

Tig isn't a replacement; she's an engineer.

I agree with all of this

nyarlothothep

I think this episode was the final straw for me. Disco sucks. The characterisation is paper thin, I don't want to see superhero/Transformer films as TV series and that's what Discovery is, zero time for characters and where there is development it's done in the most stilted, quick let's get it over with way. The whole impetus of Disco is to get from plot point A to B in the shortest time possible. I find plot centric films/TV incredibly boring and there's not one character I've grown to like in Disco. Tilly is annoying, Burnham is boring, Saru is also annoying, Stamets is a dick. The whole Saru may die arc was predictable and when it was revealed his culture was a lie etc I was just like, omg this has been done before and better by TNG, DS9 and even Red Dwarf! How can the actors deliver their lines without grimacing. The scene between Burnham and Saru was perfunctory and lame. This isn't Star Trek, it's Abrams's perversion of Trek. I don't care about special effects, action or plot, I want meaningful stories with characters I can relate to, not blockbuster popcorn action, to hell with that. I think this is second worst Star Trek series ever, the worst goes to Voyager.

Evade

Voyager's Twisted with a dash of Elogium thrown in.


I hope that engineer doesn't stick around she's giving Tilly a run for her money as most annoying character.

Johnny Storm

IMHO it was better than the previous episode but still...

I had quite enjoyed Burnham until now - I like her occasional Kirk-style swagger - but as someone else pointed out, recently her reactions to everything are way over the top - is this a problem with the direction?

David Bowie song - no, no, no, no, no - OK song, idiotic in this context - As Spock said in a similar circumstance: "Ah... the classics" :pac:

pixelburp

Johnny Storm wrote: »

IMHO it was better than the previous episode but still...

I had quite enjoyed Burnham until now - I like her occasional Kirk-style swagger - but as someone else pointed out, recently her reactions to everything are way over the top - is this a problem with the direction?

David Bowie song - no, no, no, no, no - OK song, idiotic in this context - As Spock said in a similar circumstance: "Ah... the classics" :pac:

I read somewhere the Bowie bit was actually a known method when performing surgery on the brain: supposedly the patient is asked to sing a song, recite something personal to them etc; so any problems with speech patterns or memory is seen as a sign that something's wrong.

Johnny Storm

pixelburp wrote: »

I read somewhere the Bowie bit was actually a known method when performing surgery on the brain: supposedly the patient is asked to sing a song, recite something personal to them etc; so any problems with speech patterns or memory is seen as a sign that something's wrong.

Fair enough - but is your personal favorite song from the year 1819 or there abouts?

pixelburp

Johnny Storm wrote: »

Fair enough - but is your personal favorite song from the year 1819 or there abouts?

No, but nearly every future-set TV show or film has a tendency to lean into the pop culture of the time of broadcast. It's a fairly reasonable suspension of disbelief to give the world-building some grounding in reality; Tilly suddenly belting out some made-up chart topper from 2250 or thereabouts would have been more daft IMO

Goodshape

I can forgive the Bowie for a few reasons.

– we still talk about music from 200 - 300 years ago. You can't sing Mozart or Beethoven, etc., but they haven't gone away.

– mid-20th century was the birth of global media. We don't see rockstars / pop-stars as ubiquitous as Bowie or the Beatles anymore. Signal to noise ratio just isn't as good and likely never will be again. I can imagine it still being special 200+ years time.

– if it were "quote a book/poem" and someone started into Shakespeare – today – we'd think nothing of it. No-one would complain that you should get with the times and quote J.K. Rowling or whatever.

– Disco has mentioned Kasseelian opera more than once. It's not exclusively 20th century earth references, you just notice it when it is.

– Bowie is good and I enjoyed hearing the song.

Johnny Storm

Goodshape wrote: »

– Bowie is good and I enjoyed hearing the song.

I would have enjoyed it more if she's started belting out Ziggy Stardust .... :pac:

Sad Professor

Bowie was a legend. I've no trouble believing that people will still be listening to and referencing him 250 years from now. The name-dropping of Elon Musk in the first season was way more annoying.

Franz Von Peppercorn

pixelburp wrote: »

No, but nearly every future-set TV show or film has a tendency to lean into the pop culture of the time of broadcast. It's a fairly reasonable suspension of disbelief to give the world-building some grounding in reality; Tilly suddenly belting out some made-up chart topper from 2250 or thereabouts would have been more daft IMO

It’s either that or write a popular song from the future.

Goodshape

Sad Professor wrote: »

Bowie was a legend. I've no trouble believing that people will still be listening to and referencing him 250 years from now. The name-dropping of Elon Musk in the first season was way more annoying.

They also had "Musk Junior High" on a screen in season two when Tilly is looking up her old school friend, May.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Musk_Junior_High_School

I could certainly do without that reference.

fritzelly

Re the music, this is relevant
https://www.thejournal.ie/millennials-music-knowledge-1960s-4481978-Feb2019/

Like the holo issue to explain why it wasn't in use during TOS era

Overall liked the episode.

Sad Professor

Goodshape wrote: »

They also had "Musk Junior High" on a screen in season two when Tilly is looking up her old school friend, May.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Musk_Junior_High_School

I could certainly do without that reference.

I hadn't noticed that. Ugh!

Goodshape

Goodshape wrote: »

I can forgive the Bowie for a few reasons.

– we still talk about music from 200 - 300 years ago. You can't sing Mozart or Beethoven, etc., but they haven't gone away..

Of course you can
schubert's better for an aul song though imo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8UDOmUcxCk


But yeah i've no issue with the music. And picking a song to sing during something like that is a thing already, as someone said. Plus they're always referencing klingon opera or whatever the opera was that stamets was on about previously, which you also said i think

PhiloCypher

24th century set TNG had Data playing 500+ year old Mozart concertos in every other episode but apparently people doubt Bowie would make a 23 century playlist. Bizarre

ixoy

PhiloCypher wrote: »

24th century set TNG had Data playing 500+ year old Mozart concertos in every other episode but apparently people doubt Bowie would make a 23 century playlist. Bizarre

Exactly. It's always been like this. TNG - Sherlock Holmes is still the most popular thing to re-enact. Nobody else has written a memorable piece of fiction since then.
Voyager - Janeway's choice of escapism is a borderline racist Irish village from what they probably thought 21st century here was..
DS9 - Sisko just happens to still play a popular American sport.

They all very rarely seem interested in anything beyond the timeline in which they're filmed. Seems like all creative industries died at that point.

GSPfan

Why did they bother making the look and feel of the show so starkly different only to go back on themselves in almost every episode.

I fully expect this angel figure as some reboot plot to erase Burnham from Spocks mind or something like that to explain why he never ever mentioned her ever. It’ll be a mind meld or something to get rid of all his memories involving the angel which also covers his time with Michael.

Just feels like by the end of this season they’ll be wearing the coloured uniforms and mini skirts at this rate.

Spear

People seem to be forgetting (or repressing the memory) that the writers pulled a half brother for Spock called Sybok out of their collective asses for one of the movies. Having a foster sibling that he doesn't mention is reasonable by comparison.

PhiloCypher

GSPfan wrote: »

Why did they bother making the look and feel of the show so starkly different only to go back on themselves in almost every episode.

I fully expect this angel figure as some reboot plot to erase Burnham from Spocks mind or something like that to explain why he never ever mentioned her ever. It’ll be a mind meld or something to get rid of all his memories involving the angel which also covers his time with Michael.

Just feels like by the end of this season they’ll be wearing the coloured uniforms and mini skirts at this rate.

Why would they need to wipe Spocks memory. Spock has proven time and again to be unwilling to talk about his family unless he absolutely has to. There's absolutely no need for some contrived days of our lives amnesia storyline to explain Burnham, any more then there was to explain Sybok. To do so would be audience pandering in the extreme over what is a nothing issue .

Spear

This is speculation but....

If Burnham wanted to piss off Spock royally, and lead to him being distant from Sarek, all she'd need to do is reveal to him that his Vulcan Science Academy position was not only rigged by Sarek, but rightfully hers. That's neatly tie up things and help explain why Spock opted for Starfleet instead.

GSPfan

GSPfan wrote: »

Why did they bother making the look and feel of the show so starkly different only to go back on themselves in almost every episode.

I fully expect this angel figure as some reboot plot to erase Burnham from Spocks mind or something like that to explain why he never ever mentioned her ever. It’ll be a mind meld or something to get rid of all his memories involving the angel which also covers his time with Michael.

Just feels like by the end of this season they’ll be wearing the coloured uniforms and mini skirts at this rate.

Three seasons, an animation, and 5 movies before we have mention of Sybok

Rawr

GSPfan wrote: »

Why did they bother making the look and feel of the show so starkly different only to go back on themselves in almost every episode.

I fully expect this angel figure as some reboot plot to erase Burnham from Spocks mind or something like that to explain why he never ever mentioned her ever. It’ll be a mind meld or something to get rid of all his memories involving the angel which also covers his time with Michael.

Just feels like by the end of this season they’ll be wearing the coloured uniforms and mini skirts at this rate.

One rumor floating around is the Red Angel(s) are actually various alternate Spocks and that Discovery's universe is just one of many possible Star Trek realities, including the Kelvin timeline. Possibly something to do with the "Red Matter" that Spock was using in the 2009 movie. That might explain why Spock is so invested in this.

The rumor also suggests that Picard ends up contacting Discovery at the end of the season (Possibly to enlist their help to sort everything out with the various realities).

Although probably not true at all I kind of like the idea, since it would neatly explain why Discovery is so different to established canon TOS. That might also allow for Axinar to be considered canon too (would love that).

fritzelly

How can Picard be part of the Discovery timeline, wouldn't even be born yet?

Rawr

fritzelly wrote: »

How can Picard be part of the Discovery timeline, wouldn't even be born yet?

My guess is that they've somehow made a way to send a signal back to Discovery, that he's not actually there....just talking via the viewscreen,

pixelburp

They were stretching credulity and patience by crowbarring in the Enterprise - and they've just about got away with it, mostly by limiting its presence & the sheer charm of Captain Pike - but sooner or later Discovery has to stand on its own two feet and looping Picard into it would be a retrograde step.

Inviere

Enjoyed it considerably more than the previous offerings in the season. I'll start with the bad:

main story STILL not advancing
Saru story was very heavy handed
Dilithium/warp drive bad, spore drive good - I grant it's a good way for Trek to explore and mirror todays climate change issues, but turning a warp engineer into a 'grease monkey', is a bit of a step too far to be believable. It's still a highly advanced and relatively clean tech (by the time Voyager comes around there's no waste product from warp engines iirc). Granted dilithium mining might be environmentally bad, so they should explore that and show how the problem was overcome. That's what Star Trek does, shows how people overcome problems.

The good:

I like that they're beginning to tackle why the spore drive isn't a thing later on
Enjoyed Tilly, seemed more like her season 1 self, with a bit more natural confidence.