Now ye're talking - to a Nurse

um7y1h83ge06nx

One more question. If you do get what you want will it make your interactions with other hospital staff more difficult? For example I know many radiographers who are furious with the strike and accuse the INMO of breaking agreements and not showing compassion towards patients.

tretorn

Overweight nurses isn’t a good look, really if your job is to provide good health care then you should look like you are capable of taking care of your own body.

Even the dieticians who were involved in elderly relatives care were quite overweight, poor elderly man got thinner and thinner which made the nurses look even bigger. it was bizarre.

hawkelady

tretorn wrote: »

Overweight nurses isn’t a good look, really if your job is to provide good health care then you should look like you are capable of taking care of your own body.

Even the dieticians who were involved in elderly relatives care were quite overweight, poor elderly man got thinner and thinner which made the nurses look even bigger. it was bizarre.

Go home. You’re drunk ya clown

I'm a Nurse - AMA

Super_sonic I can't really answer that. I am saddened to hear many feel that way but everyone is entitled to an opinion and as above not everyone is team nurse and that is ok.

Nurses are still providing full patient care so i am unsure why they feel that way. There are as many nurses on the ward on strike days in my current hospital as there are on any other day.

I don't know if there is any discipline that is fully staffed and I highly doubt there is but that is why we should all try to work as a team and support one another.... but that is just my opinion.

I'm a Nurse - AMA

Before I sign off here I just want to say thank you again to all the support, kind words, interesting discussions and great questions on here.

I am happy to answer any new questions on here tomorrow before i sign out fully but would like if anyone had anymore questions about a nurse in general that they want to know. For the posts I have missed I will get to them tomorrow.

Thank you again to everyone.

um7y1h83ge06nx

I'm a Nurse - AMA wrote: »

Super_sonic I can't really answer that. I am saddened to hear many feel that way but everyone is entitled to an opinion and as above not everyone is team nurse and that is ok.

No bother, worth checking out the Radiographers Ireland Facebook page if you can get access.

And feel free to get in touch if you or any nurses wants a switch to software development.

thomasdylan

I'm a Nurse - AMA wrote: »

No again I obviously have not clarified enough, they do not look after seizures or sepsis independently but doctors don't either. They receive assistance of nurses, just as ANPs AND nurses receive assistance from the medics. Also, depending on the tyoe of overdose specialist nurses do care for those patients independently. I am not obviously including overdoses that require medical intervention and critical care. ANP roles differ from area to area I guess and hopefully they will continue to grow and be allowed to prescribe more and order more tests and assessments than they are in some places which will ultimately help the medics which is great.

Clearly you haven't worked with some of the SHOs I have worked with in the past. Very very few and far between and to be honest probably not suited for medicine never mind emergency medicine. In one department I worked in the SHOs were pushed to do their best, see as many patient's as possible and were encouraged (perhaps pushed screaming) to care for resus patients. That department has certainly trained some amazing doctors but it had the amazing consultants and Registrars who wanted to teach and push medics to their full potential.

Besides all that, my original point is that ANPs exist and in my opinion deserve the pay they are on....

All overdoses have to be seen by a doctor. There's guidelines on that, no matter what substance and no matter how much a doctor should see.

We can all talk about personal experiences but I think criticism of other healthcare professionals here and questioning their suitability for a career isn't appropriate . Everyone who work in hospitals has a role in patient care and we're essentially reliant on each other. It's a real bug bear of mine when people put out statements like that because it happens far too often in hospitals and is never constructive and very rarely justified. A general discussion about what ANPs and SHOs do has ended up with you broadly criticising SHOs you have previously worked with. Where is the support for each other there?

I'm a Nurse - AMA

Thomasdylan i also commented earlier that some nurses aren't suited to nursing. Like any other job some people are just not suited to their job and that is ok. What I have said is personal experience. And also being pushed screaming into resus was a joke. Nurses are pushed into resus also and what I mean by that is it can be a feared environment for some at the start. I get on well with all members of the multidisciplary team and I am proud to say I am respectful of every role within a hospital. I truly believe in everyone working as a team which is why I was so suited to emergency nursing. Everyone has to rely on one another. You may not think that is true however it is. I remain friends with many medical colleagues and as earlier mentioned I have huge respect for emergency doctors in particular. I guess that is all I have to say on this.

Tigerpants

I fully support the nurses but I do think something is badly wrong if you have a net pay of 2400 per month yet you find yourself in debt with a credit card etc
I hope to see the nurses win out and all public sector workers to receive an uplift as a result.
In the Local & European Elections in May, remember who put us here...FG FF....the nurses are not responsible for the cuts

Guffy

What would you advise someone who is considering a nursing degree now?

Tigerpants

Tigerpants wrote: »

I hope to see the nurses win out and all public sector workers to receive an uplift as a result.

Right there. Probably why the government wont give in.

easygoing1982

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Right there. Probably why the government wont give in.

That's the goverments prerogative but it's also every public service employees prerogative to seek what the nurses are seeking.

tretorn

And you will find a good number of those marching were other Public Servants who are backing the nurses knowing that if the Government give in the pay agreement is broken and its then every sector for itself.

About 90 per cent of Public Servants are on lower wages than nurses and have no allowances or promotional opportunities to make up the difference. They have no skills to offer Australia or Dubai so no way to travel to earn enough for a deposit for a mortgage.

We are in for a lot of discontent.

khaldrogo

tretorn wrote:

About 90 per cent of Public Servants are on lower wages than nurses.....

Of course they are! They have little or no qualifications and are not responsible for a stranger's life.
You really don't have a clue do you?

um7y1h83ge06nx

khaldrogo wrote: »

are not responsible for a stranger's life.

Neither are nurses in most cases, it's the doctors and consultants that will in the vast majority of cases be held responsible if something goes wrong, particularly if things go legal. That's not a go against nurses, just the way things are.

easygoing1982

khaldrogo wrote: »

You really don't have a clue do you?

Do you?

Gloomtastic!

You mentioned earlier about you being a union rep. Can you give us some more details please. Why did you become the rep? Was it voluntary or were you ‘chosen’? Is there a family history of political involvement? Do you get involved in politics outside of work?

khaldrogo

Paislee Thundering Frown wrote:

Neither are nurses in most cases, it's the doctors and consultants that will in the vast majority of cases be held responsible if something goes wrong, particularly if things go legal. That's not a go against nurses, just the way things are.

You're wrong.
If a nurse administered an incorrect dosage of medicine due to exhaustion from lack staff causing too much work load then they are responsible.

If a midwife makes a mistake when delivering a baby and the baby dies or ends up with a life altering disability then they are responsible.

khaldrogo

easygoing1982 wrote:

Do you?

I've been in a nurses life for their whole career. I have helped them study for exams. I know countless nurses. My brother in law is a radiologist. I have more of a clue than most of the people on here not directly in the medical field.

FaganJr

Hi and thanks for putting yourself forward for this, I think it was a bad idea but anyway.
I support the nurses but not in a strike for more pay.
I think the system is broken, not just the health service, but the whole of the public service and government.
I think the new children's hospital is proof of this. Everyone knew it was a bad idea location wise, but vested interests pushed it through.
Then the public service managed the project.
Now it's ballooned out of control. And we already have an inquiry. Madness.
You need better conditions and more staff, this starts at the top of the HSE/ public service. They are incompetent but also and very important, they are in untouchable.
We have a bunch of clowns running the country.
The government are just mouth pieces, they come and go, but the top brass in the public service are there for good. They don't answer to anyone. And so, year on year, it doesn't matter who you vote for. These clowns are actually in charge.
Now from my perspective.
I'm private sector.
I have 2 degrees
I can't strike, I'll be fired.
I can't get a pay rise, unless I'm actually told I'll get one. Largest has been 3%
I get 20 days leave, that's it, no increases.
I have no pension, and no means to get one.
I have to reach targets, no overtime.
I have to work un sociable hours with no premium.
I have to pay mortgage, health insurance, kids at school, motor & travel etc etc all out of a very
Below average wage.
We've never been taxed more than we are now.
But the public service expect me to pay more.
Do you understand I can't do that, I'm on my knees.
We the private sector who pay for all this are on our knees.
The problem is, the rest of the public service are waiting in the wings to see how you get on and they will be next.
This is why the country can't pay you more.
I genuinely wish we could.

khaldrogo

I think if you were to poll the nurses on this strike and ask them if they would stop all further strike action if (by some magic) the staff numbers were increased 99% would agree.

However, if they are expected to carry on as normal with the excessive workload then they deserve more money.

hawkelady

Paislee Thundering Frown wrote: »

Neither are nurses in most cases, it's the doctors and consultants that will in the vast majority of cases be held responsible if something goes wrong, particularly if things go legal. That's not a go against nurses, just the way things are.

Not wholly true. Nurses can and have been struck off and can be sued. Lose their pin /livelyhood. If a nurse is shopping in dundrum and a person in front of him/her keels over and is in cardiac arrest .. if she intervened and made a mistake or the patient dies. The nurses “help” will be looked into and they could be sued /struck off !
Would you prefer if the said nurse just stepped over the patient and kept shopping ? They have a lot of responsibility and I feel they are right to look for pay parity

hawkelady

FaganJr wrote: »

Hi and thanks for putting yourself forward for this, I think it was a bad idea but anyway.
I support the nurses but not in a strike for more pay.
I think the system is broken, not just the health service, but the whole of the public service and government.
I think the new children's hospital is proof of this. Everyone knew it was a bad idea location wise, but vested interests pushed it through.
Then the public service managed the project.
Now it's ballooned out of control. And we already have an inquiry. Madness.
You need better conditions and more staff, this starts at the top of the HSE/ public service. They are incompetent but also and very important, they are in untouchable.
We have a bunch of clowns running the country.
The government are just mouth pieces, they come and go, but the top brass in the public service are there for good. They don't answer to anyone. And so, year on year, it doesn't matter who you vote for. These clowns are actually in charge.
Now from my perspective.
I'm private sector.
I have 2 degrees
I can't strike, I'll be fired.
I can't get a pay rise, unless I'm actually told I'll get one. Largest has been 3%
I get 20 days leave, that's it, no increases.
I have no pension, and no means to get one.
I have to reach targets, no overtime.
I have to work un sociable hours with no premium.
I have to pay mortgage, health insurance, kids at school, motor & travel etc etc all out of a very
Below average wage.
We've never been taxed more than we are now.
But the public service expect me to pay more.
Do you understand I can't do that, I'm on my knees.
We the private sector who pay for all this are on our knees.
The problem is, the rest of the public service are waiting in the wings to see how you get on and they will be next.
This is why the country can't pay you more.
I genuinely wish we could.

You could look for a better job though ? If you feel you’re being hard done by

tretorn

hawkelady wrote: »

You could look for a better job though ? If you feel you’re being hard done by

The nurses can look for a better job too.

Next....................

khaldrogo

If the nurse was to look for a another position in the HSE at the same level the same problems would be there.

Next....................

Gloomtastic!

FaganJr wrote: »

Hi and thanks for putting yourself forward for this, I think it was a bad idea but anyway.
I support the nurses but not in a strike for more pay.
I think the system is broken, not just the health service, but the whole of the public service and government.
I think the new children's hospital is proof of this. Everyone knew it was a bad idea location wise, but vested interests pushed it through.
Then the public service managed the project.
Now it's ballooned out of control. And we already have an inquiry. Madness.
You need better conditions and more staff, this starts at the top of the HSE/ public service. They are incompetent but also and very important, they are in untouchable.
We have a bunch of clowns running the country.
The government are just mouth pieces, they come and go, but the top brass in the public service are there for good. They don't answer to anyone. And so, year on year, it doesn't matter who you vote for. These clowns are actually in charge.
Now from my perspective.
I'm private sector.
I have 2 degrees
I can't strike, I'll be fired.
I can't get a pay rise, unless I'm actually told I'll get one. Largest has been 3%
I get 20 days leave, that's it, no increases.
I have no pension, and no means to get one.
I have to reach targets, no overtime.
I have to work un sociable hours with no premium.
I have to pay mortgage, health insurance, kids at school, motor & travel etc etc all out of a very
Below average wage.
We've never been taxed more than we are now.
But the public service expect me to pay more.
Do you understand I can't do that, I'm on my knees.
We the private sector who pay for all this are on our knees.
The problem is, the rest of the public service are waiting in the wings to see how you get on and they will be next.
This is why the country can't pay you more.
I genuinely wish we could.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057919651/35/#post109385319

A little look over in the Teaching forum and you can see the rabble rousing. Remember, it’s always about the patients/pupils!!! :rolleyes:

FaganJr

hawkelady wrote:

You could look for a better job though ? If you feel you’re being hard done by

Afraid not when your out west, trust me I look every day.
Also your missing the point, I don't feel hard done by, this is how it is in the real world.
Private sector unless you work for a multi national is governed by its own rules, especially SME's.

I'm a Nurse - AMA

Guffy wrote: »

What would you advise someone who is considering a nursing degree now?

I tell all the students I work with to stick in there. I tell them how worth it it is being a nurse and what rewarding moments you have, because those moments are many. I am able to share a good experience with student nurses and they can see what courses I have gotten the chance to do. I tell them all the importance of team work and to be respectful to those around them including the students that come behind them. Morale may be low at times but ultimately when you stick together the job gets done and patients are kept safe

Mr.Maroon

I'm a Nurse - AMA wrote: »

Nurses do most the bloods and lines in an ED. On the ward I first worked on the nurses did bloods and lines there too. I would assume that most wards do but I wonder if it is all junior staff (who aren't trained) on a ward or if the nurses are overworked and doing a line or bloods would prevent other nursing care that is required thus needing a doctor to do it?

As far as I am aware in any of the hospitals I have worked in phlebotomists just do bloods and not lines but I do realise that could differ in other hospitals. I know some PICCs are too small to withdraw bloods from. In hospitals I have worked in they will generally take from PICCs but again it is not the same everywhere. Just to note, if blood can be drawn from the PICC then a nurse should be doing that to prevent a patient from being pricked when it is not required.

Thanks for the reply. Next time I'm in, I'll have to enquire further.
When your veins aren't the best - having young doctors inserting a cannula can be a painful experience.

I fully support the strike btw - I've seen first hand how difficult and challenging the work is.

I'm a Nurse - AMA

Paislee Thundering Frown wrote: »

Neither are nurses in most cases, it's the doctors and consultants that will in the vast majority of cases be held responsible if something goes wrong, particularly if things go legal. That's not a go against nurses, just the way things are.

I will give a few examples here.

When a nurse is in triage, they assess a patient and they decide when that patient should be seen by a doctor by a category. If they get that wrong and something negative happens to that patient it lies with the nurse.

If a patient absconds and something happens to them, it is often the nurse that it lies with.

Nurses carry out observations, if they do observations and do not recognise a deteriorating patient or do not do something to improve their condition then that lies with them.

As someone pointed out above, the responsibility on a midwife is huge.

Nurses and midwives are completely accountable for their actions and rightly so.

I'm a Nurse - AMA

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

You mentioned earlier about you being a union rep. Can you give us some more details please. Why did you become the rep? Was it voluntary or were you ‘chosen’? Is there a family history of political involvement? Do you get involved in politics outside of work?

Hi Gloomtastic
I felt that things were getting really bad at that time. Morale was low and we were all struggling. The simple fact is that there was no union rep available for the meetings so I put my name forward. My family couldn't know less about politics if they tried and no, absolutely no involvement outside of work.

I'm a Nurse - AMA

Mr.Maroon wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. Next time I'm in, I'll have to enquire further.
When your veins aren't the best - having young doctors inserting a cannula can be a painful experience.

I fully support the strike btw - I've seen first hand how difficult and challenging the work is.

Do. Needles are painful but as I say, if you have a PICC that blood can be drawn back from do ask why they aren't. People should never ever be afraid to ask questions when it is to do with their health. Best of luck with your health

Breege_M

What is your gross monthly pay. You have stated your net monthly pay to be €2,400, but deductions vary between individuals.

I'm a Nurse - AMA

Breege_M wrote: »

What is your gross monthly pay. You have stated your net monthly pay to be €2,400, but deductions vary between individuals.

I would have to look at a pay slip which I don't have to hand right now but my salary is available online Looking at that it goes from 2445 for a nurse just qualified to 3880 after 15 years or long term service as per the newest payscales. You are also completely right re deductions as they do completely differ and I know mine differ to others qualified the same amount of time as me but circumstances differ.

noodler

Tigerpants wrote: »

I fully support the nurses but I do think something is badly wrong if you have a net pay of 2400 per month yet you find yourself in debt with a credit card etc
I hope to see the nurses win out and all public sector workers to receive an uplift as a result.
In the Local & European Elections in May, remember who put us here...FG FF....the nurses are not responsible for the cuts

All public sector workers have been receiving an annual uplift since 2016 (not including increments) and will receive another uplift in 2019 and 2020.

Public sector pay bill has increased by a billion in 2018 and will increase by another billion in 2019.

Roughly half of that is increases in rates (again not including increments).

easygoing1982

I'm a Nurse - AMA wrote: »

If a patient absconds and something happens to them, it is often the nurse that it lies

This is a pet hate of mine. Patients don't abscond. They are not trying to escape lawful custody or arrest. They have left without treatment as is their right.

easygoing1982

khaldrogo wrote: »

I've been in a nurses life for their whole career. I have helped them study for exams. I know countless nurses. My brother in law is a radiologist. I have more of a clue than most of the people on here not directly in the medical field.

Oh right. So you know countless nurses. I know a few guards and 1 solicitor. Maybe I should go on to the legal forum and start posting. After all I should have more of a clue on legal issues.

No wait. Actually I don't. But I seem to be in a better position to be commenting on this particular issue than you.

khaldrogo

easygoing1982 wrote:

Oh right. So you know countless nurses. I know a few guards and 1 solicitor. Maybe I should go on to the legal forum and start posting. After all I should have more of a clue on legal issues.

I know some guards too and EMTs, some firemen and some army guys. I'm not posting on threads related to them as I have never spent an evening consoling them after their horrific 13 hr shift. Listening to the sorrow and frustration they felt not being able to do as much as they wanted for each patient. Listening to them worry whether they gave the right dosage at the right time. Listening to them talk about how tired they were after only getting a 45min break of the 13hrs. An then having to do it all again the next day.

khaldrogo

easygoing1982 wrote:

No wait. Actually I don't. But I seem to be in a better position to be commenting on this particular issue than you.

I am delighted for you.

Riraw

Hi,

First of all I applaud the nurses for going on strike. It is just a crying shame that it had to come to this. For such obviously needed changes to happen.

So Last year I had a 3 week stay in hospital, after 3 days on a trolley waiting for a bed.
During that time I saw minimal interaction between nurses and their patients.
Care assistants were doing the vast majority of the hands on work on my ward. Nurses were almost only on the ward during doctors rounds, and when medicines needed to be dispensed.
Many times, I saw nurses walk into the ward avoiding eye contact with all patients.

You have mentioned that nurses have taken on more responsibilities in recent years, and have a greater level of education.
So aside from the obvious understaffing issues. Has the role of a nurse expanded past providing physical care and attention to people?
Are care assistants skilled and informed of individuals circumstances enough, to provide a similar standard of care to a nurse?

When a nurses family members present at the hospital where she/he work, are they fast tracked through the services?

Do you receive thank you gifts often? What is a nice gift to give a nurse?

Are you more likely to be let out of hospital on a friday?

hawkelady

easygoing1982 wrote: »

This is a pet hate of mine. Patients don't abscond. They are not trying to escape lawful custody or arrest. They have left without treatment as is their right.

An elderly patient with demetia can and do abscond !!! Wandering near busy roads wearing just a gown !! Nurse will be held accountable.
So I’ve no idea why your pet hate is directed at this nurse.

khaldrogo

Don't bother with this poster imo.

Never has a username been less appropriate.

Twenty Grand

Hi, thanks for a fantastic thread.

In your opinion, what can the HSE do to make nursing in Ireland a more attractive job for graduate nurses and nurses abroad?

It's my understanding that while nurses in Ireland aren't underpaid per say, their are just much better opportunities abroad, in terms of money and conditions for graduates and nurses with a few years experience.

My friend worked in an Australian hospital for 2 years after graduating in Ireland and she said conditions are night and day when she came home to work in Ireland and had insane patient to nurse ratios, people on trolleys etc.

I'm a Nurse - AMA

Riraw wrote: »

Hi,

First of all I applaud the nurses for going on strike. It is just a crying shame that it had to come to this. For such obviously needed changes to happen.

So Last year I had a 3 week stay in hospital, after 3 days on a trolley waiting for a bed.
During that time I saw minimal interaction between nurses and their patients.
Care assistants were doing the vast majority of the hands on work on my ward. Nurses were almost only on the ward during doctors rounds, and when medicines needed to be dispensed.
Many times, I saw nurses walk into the ward avoiding eye contact with all patients.

You have mentioned that nurses have taken on more responsibilities in recent years, and have a greater level of education.
So aside from the obvious understaffing issues. Has the role of a nurse expanded past providing physical care and attention to people?
Are care assistants skilled and informed of individuals circumstances enough, to provide a similar standard of care to a nurse?

When a nurses family members present at the hospital where she/he work, are they fast tracked through the services?

Do you receive thank you gifts often? What is a nice gift to give a nurse?

Are you more likely to be let out of hospital on a friday?

Hello. Its sad that that was your experience but I hope you are fully better now. The role of a ward nurse has not expanded past caring for people no. I do think there are more demands as in patients with complex care needs and more and more paperwork but that all falls into understaffing too

As far as I am aware care assistants have been fully informed of individual circumstances in any places I worked in. I have also discussed care assistants earlier in this thread. I think if care assistants wish to upskill then the support needs to be there in the sense that if a care assistant like a family member of mine goes on a course to learn a new skill but then comes back to work and isn't able to carry that skill out as there is no-one to cover the already very busy list of jobs she has.

I will speak for my own family members that presented to where I worked and I can say for certain they did not get fast tracked and rightly so

I receive chocolates probably weekly where I work which incredibly generous especially if someone has went to the hospital shop to buy them. I think the best gift I received was an ice lolly in the hot weather! I don't ever expect gifts to be honest and although saying thank you I also tell someone they really shouldn't have. I think receiving a nice card is always special and something that all nurses seem to appreciate.

With regards to the Friday discharge, I don't know if this is actually true although many patient's have said it to me over the years.

I'm a Nurse - AMA

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Hi, thanks for a fantastic thread.

In your opinion, what can the HSE do to make nursing in Ireland a more attractive job for graduate nurses and nurses abroad?

It's my understanding that while nurses in Ireland aren't underpaid per say, their are just much better opportunities abroad, in terms of money and conditions for graduates and nurses with a few years experience.

My friend worked in an Australian hospital for 2 years after graduating in Ireland and she said conditions are night and day when she came home to work in Ireland and had insane patient to nurse ratios, people on trolleys etc.

You have already named the 2 things that came to mind when reading your question. If there was more staff patient to nurse ratio would improve. I do think the caseload that is expected from some nurses especially when newly enough qualified is unsafe. The bed numbers cannot be increased without the staff also but look at the pictures that have been put out there in the media of trolleys in general hospitals lined up corridors. Nurses cannot stay in that environment for long as they get so burned out as you realise you cannot provide the quality care that you be be able to if there were less trolleys or a reduced caseload.

Johnboy1951

Maybe you missed this post ....... care to offer your opinion?

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109381331&postcount=151

noodler

What happens when another increase in pay (there have been increases in 2016, 2017, 2018 and more are scheduled for 2019 and 2020) fails to change anything in hospitals?

jlm29

Riraw wrote: »

Are you more likely to be let out of hospital on a friday?

I actually think certain people are less likely to be discharged on a Friday. If an older person who lives alone and might not have family, they might not have home help on sat or sun, so sometimes that can sway a decision to discharge or not. Otherwise, I don’t think it makes any difference

Twenty Grand

I'm a Nurse - AMA wrote: »

You have already named the 2 things that came to mind when reading your question. If there was more staff patient to nurse ratio would improve. I do think the caseload that is expected from some nurses especially when newly enough qualified is unsafe. The bed numbers cannot be increased without the staff also but look at the pictures that have been put out there in the media of trolleys in general hospitals lined up corridors. Nurses cannot stay in that environment for long as they get so burned out as you realise you cannot provide the quality care that you be be able to if there were less trolleys or a reduced caseload.

If the main problems nurses face is understaffing and the knock on effects (bed numbers, trolley, burnout) and the HSE cannot hire enough nurses or make nurses stay in Ireland, then what do you think can be done to increase nurse numbers?

Personally I think the HSE needs to make nursing in Ireland an attractive option to students and graduates, and with the constant healthcare crises, the only way I can think is to offer really good wages compared to other countries, such as Australia, UAE etc.

easygoing1982

hawkelady wrote: »

An elderly patient with demetia can and do abscond !!! Wandering near busy roads wearing just a gown !! Nurse will be held accountable.
So I’ve no idea why your pet hate is directed at this nurse.[/QUOTE