Chernobyl - HBO/Sky *Spoilers*

Technocentral

Re: people complaining that Emily Watsons character isnt feasible and "2019 PC":
"According to Smithsonian, 40% of chemistry PhDs awarded in Soviet Russia between 1962 and 1964 went to women. In the post-war period, the number of women researchers in the U.S.S.R. increased from 59,000 in 1950 to nearly 500,000 in 1974"

ASOT

Technocentral wrote: »

Re: people complaining that Emily Watsons character isnt feasible and "2019 PC":
"According to Smithsonian, 40% of chemistry PhDs awarded in Soviet Russia between 1962 and 1964 went to women. In the post-war period, the number of women researchers in the U.S.S.R. increased from 59,000 in 1950 to nearly 500,000 in 1974"

Don't let facts get in the way of people looking to moan for no reason mate.

errlloyd

I wouldn't even mind, but almost every other character is a dude. How sensitive do you need to complain about the only major female actor on a show.

1: It's historically accurate for her to be a woman.
2: They're speaking English, if you have a problem with how Russia is depicted start there.
3: She's an incredible actress, so even if it wasn't a definite historical truth I would be glad they found a part for her.


It's not like the coal miners were all women or something!

GrumPy

For those enjoying the show that want to know more about the history (in detail) here is a really cool link: https://imgur.com/a/TwY6q

Super interesting stuff and absolutely terrifying.

ollkiller

GrumPy wrote: »

For those enjoying the show that want to know more about the history (in detail) here is a really cool link: https://imgur.com/a/TwY6q

Super interesting stuff and absolutely terrifying.

Read that before, it's a fascinating read alright.

Anteayer

Technocentral wrote: »

Re: people complaining that Emily Watsons character isnt feasible and "2019 PC":
"According to Smithsonian, 40% of chemistry PhDs awarded in Soviet Russia between 1962 and 1964 went to women. In the post-war period, the number of women researchers in the U.S.S.R. increased from 59,000 in 1950 to nearly 500,000 in 1974"

The Soviets may have been many things and had plenty of negative sides to their regime, but they were extremely egalitarian for the time. If anything, women's rights in Russia have gone significantly backwards since the 80s when they were probably at their peak. If you look in somewhere like Afghanistan, the Soviets actually forced the Afghanis to send girls to school for example. They didn't do it particularly subtly either.

If you consider that post 60s period, the USSR was relatively stable and a lot of horrors of Stalinism were behind it. It was still an authoritarian state, much like present day China, but it was far from the US views of it.

I always think it's a terrible pity that the USSR didn't fold into something more like 1970s Scandinavian style socialism. It was possible that it could have gone that way eventually. Instead, it imploded and now it's basically hard core capitalism and strongman leadership without the idealism element of socialism that they used to have. You've also had the rise of religious fundamentalism and extremely hard right social values.

When you think about it, they had made huge technological and scientific achievements in a whole load of areas that could have morphed into a modern social democratic society and economy. Instead, modern Russia has a brain drain.

I mean there was a lot wrong with Soviet authoritarianism and the state had periods of brutally forcing its will on people. However, that aspect of it wasn't socialism or the underlying idealistic views they had about an alternative to capitalism. It was just they never developed any kind of notion of democratic values.

The American views tend to just lump communism/socialism and the worst of Soviet authoritarianism all into one oversimplification. I don't think you can look at the USSR through the USA's simplistic goodies Vs baddies world view.

When you look at this dramatisation of the Chernobyl disaster, you're also looking at the implosion of a whole political system and structure that had huge ideals but, as with anything: power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

A bit like the RMBK reactor, it was built with ideals, arrogance and paranoia and lacked the essential fallbacks, accountability and controls.

peddlelies

Gripping television, there's never a moment to get distracted or bored. I often find myself minimizing and browsing in certain shows, even the last few GOT episodes, but not this.

Deserves to win awards, excellent stuff all around.

gmisk

GrumPy wrote: »

For those enjoying the show that want to know more about the history (in detail) here is a really cool link: https://imgur.com/a/TwY6q

Super interesting stuff and absolutely terrifying.

Wow that is fascinating thanks.
The look of the show seems pretty spot on!

valoren

I love the mural from episode 2, which was used for the establishing shot to introduce Watson's character.

yermandan

GrumPy wrote: »

For those enjoying the show that want to know more about the history (in detail) here is a really cool link: https://imgur.com/a/TwY6q

Super interesting stuff and absolutely terrifying.

Thanks for this

theteal

GrumPy wrote: »

For those enjoying the show that want to know more about the history (in detail) here is a really cool link: https://imgur.com/a/TwY6q

Super interesting stuff and absolutely terrifying.

Cheers, I've just ignored my "to-do" list to have a proper look through that. Hauntingly fascinating

Anteayer

gmisk wrote: »

Wow that is fascinating thanks.
The look of the show seems pretty spot on!

Some USSR TV adverts from that era: it's strange how on some levels it's familiar as it looks like 80s Euro kitsch but other aspects are like it's a parallel universe, which it was in many ways

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzlzx8D4hYw

Detail and look and feel of the mini series is absolutely spot on.

I'm pretty sure that's still where Corbyn gets his suits tho!

Technocentral

Anteayer wrote:

Some USSR TV adverts from that era: it's strange how on some levels it's familiar as it looks like 80s Euro kitsch but other aspects are like it's a parallel universe, which it was in many ways

Did those walkmans have Dolby noise reduction?

Technocentral

Anteayer wrote:

I'm pretty sure that's still where Corbyn gets its suits tho!

And his policies!

Itssoeasy

That link about the Chernobyl story is unreal to look at. So death does have a taste then and it's a metallic taste. I've met people from Belarus who are even to this day living with what happened in 1986. There are kids who weren't even born who are in Orphanages they had a very trusting way about them. I mean we took them to beaches and they were fascinated by them. The kids did anyway, the adults I met who would have been alive during the Soviet era not so much. It's why I have a fascination about the disaster because when you met people who lived through it and kids who if not suffering radiation issues aren't in an orphanage for no reason.

Edit: Sorry I know this is about the TV show so sorry for bringing the thread off topic.

Sardonicat

Technocentral wrote: »

Anteayer wrote:

Some USSR TV adverts from that era: it's strange how on some levels it's familiar as it looks like 80s Euro kitsch but other aspects are like it's a parallel universe, which it was in many ways

Did those walkmans have Dolby noise reduction?

And more to the point; could you play your boot leg Western cassettes on them?

Dimmer switches seemed to provide hours of fun (I think it was a dimmer switch ad. It may have been a sci fi show )

Whoever directed the suits ad drew inspiration from Abba.

TomSweeney

Limpy wrote: »

I visited chernobyl last year. It was on the bucket list. Visited the ghost town of Pripyat, names of apartment occupants still on the mail boxes ect.

Looking forward to the series as I've yet to see it. There's a very good documentary which we watched on the way to the powerplant.

https://youtu.be/p5GTvaW34O0

Seeing the thriving Town (Pripyat) later in the current state was really strange, especially the children's park. An un believable experience.

Yes I did the same in March, excellent trip, read my report on it here




https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109600502&postcount=33

TomSweeney

Dial Hard wrote: »

I think 14 is a perfectly fine age to watch this. It happened, it's part of history, the programme isn't glorifying anything. I'd have a bigger problem with him watching gratuitous fictionalised violence, tbh.

Exactly, like that utter scutter Game Of Thrones ...

TomSweeney

Fourier wrote: »

Nothing to contradict just expanding a bit.

The type of reactor in Chernobyl is an old Soviet design that uses graphite to moderate it and water to cool it. "Moderate" in the context of Nuclear reactors means slow neutrons down enough to let them split the nucleus of the uranium atoms. Fast moving neutrons essentially fly through Uranium without splitting it. So "moderating" is needed to keep the reaction going. Just mentioning this as the word "moderate" sounds like it slows the reaction, where as really the Graphite moderator is part of keeping it going.

The water as mentioned cools the reactor core, it also poisons the reaction. Poison means it absorbs neutrons so they can't be used to split Uranium, thus slowing down the reaction. So just bear in mind that the water is both cooling the reactor core and controlling the pace of the reactions.
If you need to really slow down the reaction there are control rods made of a material very good at absorbing neutrons. They are suspended above the core and are inserted by automatic systems if temperatures get too high.


So the reactor was slowly de-powered as the time of the test approached. Unfortunately midway through the depowering they got a call to not reduce any further due to a smaller power station in the Kiev region failing. The grid needed Chernobyl to pick up the load to compensate and this meant the test could not proceed until nightfall.

The night-shift team were then ordered to rapidly decrease power production in order to complete the test. The test would not be possible for another year at least if not completed by the morning. The rapid decrease and human errors while carrying it out caused a build up of Xenon in the reactor. Xenon is an extreme reactor poison and rapidly slowed down the reaction so that power dropped to minimal levels.

In response to this the control rods were completely removed to allow the reaction to speed up. However the xenon build up meant even with this done the power levels were minimal.

This is when things really went wrong. You have a hot reactor being cooled by lots of water that boils into steam and rushes out of the core. At high power this boiling is very fast and the cycle of steam and water runs through the reactor quickly. At low power the less violent boiling means the flow of water is much slower. This means that any steam bubbles hang around inside the core for longer.

This is where we get the "Positive Void Coefficient" you mentioned. "Void" is just an absence of the cooling material. If your coolant is water the voids are steam bubbles. However remember this reactor is not only using water to cool it, but also using it to slow the reaction. Steam doesn't absorb neutrons as well as water, so any steam bubbles/voids means more neutrons survive to continue the reaction. Steam bubbles cause an increase in power, this is what is meant by "Positive Void Coefficient".

So now that they were at low power these steam bubbles started hanging around in the core. Suddenly thanks to the bubbles the reaction started getting faster and power increased. Of course this meant that the steam bubbles should start to move out of the core quicker but the power increase happened very fast before the water could really get moving.

Suddenly the reactor begins to climb enormously in power. Normally the control rods would stop this, but they had been removed earlier to get the power up again in response to the Xenon poisoning. In the time it took the rods to descend from the ceiling the core had begun to melt and actually distorted into a shape that blocked the rods.

At that point the reaction went so out of control the temperature was enough to evaporate all the water in the core causing a steam explosion. Now there was no water, just steam. So the reaction got more powerful until it caused the core to explode. This second explosion is the one that released all the radioactive material by blasting some of it into the air and the rest caught fire giving off radioactive smoke.

Get that over to the interesting stuff thread in AH

TomSweeney

ASOT wrote: »

Don't let facts get in the way of people looking to moan for no reason mate.

In fairness it should be historicaly accurate, it is supposed to be based on a true story.

TomSweeney

errlloyd wrote: »

I wouldn't even mind, but almost every other character is a dude. How sensitive do you need to complain about the only major female actor on a show.

1: It's historically accurate for her to be a woman.
2: They're speaking English, if you have a problem with how Russia is depicted start there.
3: She's an incredible actress, so even if it wasn't a definite historical truth I would be glad they found a part for her.


It's not like the coal miners were all women or something!

ehhh .... No cos she didn't exist !

TomSweeney

Anyway, just watched the 3rd episode = fantastic! as always, love the haunting music in this show, it's one of the best things about it.
And regarding Emily Watson - doesn't bother me too much, makes sense since it's only 5 episodes to condense many scientists into one.
What does annoy me is people constantly defending it ... hmm like I just did above

Anyway, read that book Midnight in Chernobyl which is an excellent history of it, and there is a chapter on those guys in Hospital no. 6, I don't think the injuries were as grotesque as portrayed in this.
They did die, and I'm sure it wasn't pleasant, but skin falling off ? having no face ? nah , the book didn't mention that - must read the chapter again.

Gimme A Pound

Still haunted by the poor guys in the hospital. What was the point in them being left on the beds to disintegrate and emit harmful toxins while doing so, when no drug would do a thing, and the trauma it would have caused staff. You'd think it would be no issue to get an auld state sanctioned bullet in the head sorted for them in the USSR at the time.

TomSweeney

Chris Finch!

Bloody good rep!!

Sittingpretty

TomSweeney wrote: »

Anyway, just watched the 3rd episode = fantastic! as always, love the haunting music in this show, it's one of the best things about it.
And regarding Emily Watson - doesn't bother me too much, makes sense since it's only 5 episodes to condense many scientists into one.
What does annoy me is people constantly defending it ... hmm like I just did above

Anyway, read that book Midnight in Chernobyl which is an excellent history of it, and there is a chapter on those guys in Hospital no. 6, I don't think the injuries were as grotesque as portrayed in this.
They did die, and I'm sure it wasn't pleasant, but skin falling off ? having no face ? nah , the book didn't mention that - must read the chapter again.

I think their injuries were that horrific, I remember reading one of them had stood up and the skin on his leg fell down like a loose sock :eek:

Hurrache

TomSweeney wrote: »

I don't think the injuries were as grotesque as portrayed in this.
They did die, and I'm sure it wasn't pleasant, but skin falling off ? having no face ? nah , the book didn't mention that - must read the chapter again.

Look at the Imgur post linked, there's a photo of it.

Anteayer

Zaniyah Gigantic Caricature wrote: »

Still haunted by the poor guys in the hospital. What was the point in them being left on the beds to disintegrate and emit harmful toxins while doing so, when no drug would do a thing, and the trauma it would have caused staff. You'd think it would be no issue to get an auld state sanctioned bullet in the head sorted for them in the USSR at the time.

They very likely had never encountered that degree of exposure to a fissile material before and didn't quite know how bad things were and how rapidly it progressed.

Atlantic Dawn

Spotted this online, not a million miles away from what was on the show...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRzeOzsZCX0

TomSweeney

Hurrache wrote: »

Look at the Imgur post linked, there's a photo of it.

Wow!

That is bloody rough!

SnakePlissken

Hurrache wrote: »

TomSweeney wrote: »

I don't think the injuries were as grotesque as portrayed in this.
They did die, and I'm sure it wasn't pleasant, but skin falling off ? having no face ? nah , the book didn't mention that - must read the chapter again.

Look at the Imgur post linked, there's a photo of it.

DO NOT look at the Imgur post link, there's a photo of it.

Those poor souls, horrendous way to go out.