Scotland v Ireland.

Dubinusa

The best thing for me about the Schmidt era, is our depth.
But, our depth in key positions is not up to snuff!
Fb and hooker particularly. We're closing in on the rwc and if RK doesn't stay healthy, it appears we're fcuked.
That's a position we should never be in.
If Murray was to miss the world cup, I wouldn't worry as much. Marmion, McGrath and Cooney can do a good job imo.
People will argue that the subs have not had enough experience or that Murray is the best 9 and....
The fact is, Murray has been awful. Complete dross.
2 weeks now and he's been outplayed by Youngs and Laidlaw!
Murray playing at this level in the rwc, would most likely mean another early exit!
I think Cooney should start the next 3 matches and Murray rested. Clearly something is wrong and he's incapable of making passes off the base of rucks.
As far as offloading goes, sometimes you can make a complete bollox of it!
I think what's needed is our best players getting the option to play off the cuff a little. Ringrose, Stockdale and Larmour can create gold outta shyte. Let them have the ball more.
Aki is not a very creative player, but he can offload. He should play to his strengths or if he's restricted, he shouldn't play. Henshaw should go in at 12.
England and the A.B's would have beat us today. Fairly easily too.
It's no excuse to cry about x being out etc.
Last year we won the slam without VDF and SOB. With several different center pairings and while we were defensively atrocious out wide!
We have similar concerns right now, but we look incapable of opening up a box of cereal.

davedanon

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Ireland were better against England. A disimprovement today, but much of that a consequence of the level of personnel on the pitch. Todays performance would have been punished by England with a 50 pointer. The positive was that Scotland were worse and made even more stupid errors, we got the bounce of a ball for rather than against, and Poite was polite to us.
So a step backwards from last week. Dont let the win hide anything.

Utter nonsense. You simply cannot compare performances in this way. You play the team that's in front of you. Ireland are much better than France, so, should England stick 30 points on them, considering what they did to Ireland, playing away? They won't, will they.

This wasn't a step backward. It was imperfect, but it represents progress. Scotland had an impressive home winning run going, they had tails up, we were extremely deflated, and had key players missing: yet we still won by more than a score, and could have had a bonus point!

I now fully expect us to beat Italy, France and Wales. Whether that's enough for the championship I care not. If we go into the WC with a 4 and 1 record from the 6N, that'll do me.

mangobob

davedanon wrote: »

I now fully expect us to beat Italy, France and Wales.

While I dont disagree with the points you make in your post, I'm just curious about what you have seen from Ireland in the last two weeks that makes you so confident of a win in Cardiff? All the evidence so far points to the contrary (Wales indifferent display last week notwithstanding).

I was worried about the Wales match BEFORE this tournament began. Now 40% of the way through, I am seriously, seriously concerned. Wales rode their luck and got their wins, but they are building momentum and you just know when they rock up against us in that final game they will be at their peak. We on the other hand started disastrously against England at home which saw our Grand Slam hopes ended and then laboured to a deserved but pretty uninspiring victory against an underwhelming and error-ridden Scottish team. Failure to secure either LBP or TBP in both of which has in all probability ended our championship hopes too. To have effectively surrendered our title after just 2 weeks is an awful showing from an outfit that just a short few weeks ago had swept all before it in that calendar year and looked nailed on favourites for the 6N and, whisper it, even the World Cup.

While certainly not experiencing an injury crisis, nonetheless our depth is already being tested in places and we will almost certainly ship a few more before the denouement in Cardiff. Our half back pairing is absolutely key to our chances and yet Murray is playing like a drain but Joe doesn't seem to have any confidence in his replacements. Sexton is getting smashed so often he cant stay on the pitch and we are seriously diminished without him. We seem bereft of ideas or penetration in attack and without Ringrose we look positively one dimensional. Last but certainly not least, in terms of our first choice but aging full back, we are one injury away from full blown panic mode.

I certainly think its possible that our performance levels could recover enough (assuming we could get lucky enough with injuries) that we beat Wales next month, but to "fully expect" a win at this stage is massively overconfident imho. We have shown sweet f.a. to warrant such optimism.

FrancieBrady

mangobob wrote: »

While I dont disagree with the points you make in your post, I'm just curious about what you have seen from Ireland in the last two weeks that makes you so confident of a win in Cardiff? All the evidence so far points to the contrary (Wales indifferent display last week notwithstanding).

I was worried about the Wales match BEFORE this tournament began. Now 40% of the way through, I am seriously, seriously concerned. Wales rode their luck and got their wins, but they are building momentum and you just know when they rock up against us in that final game they will be at their peak. We on the other hand started disastrously against England at home which saw our Grand Slam hopes ended and then laboured to a deserved but pretty uninspiring victory against an underwhelming and error-ridden Scottish team. Failure to secure either LBP or TBP in both of which has in all probability ended our championship hopes too. To have effectively surrendered our title after just 2 weeks is an awful showing from an outfit that just a short few weeks ago had swept all before it in that calendar year and looked nailed on favourites for the 6N and, whisper it, even the World Cup.

While certainly not experiencing an injury crisis, nonetheless our depth is already being tested in places and we will almost certainly ship a few more before the denouement in Cardiff. Our half back pairing is absolutely key to our chances and yet Murray is playing like a drain but Joe doesn't seem to have any confidence in his replacements. Sexton is getting smashed so often he cant stay on the pitch and we are seriously diminished without him. We seem bereft of ideas or penetration in attack and without Ringrose we look positively one dimensional. Last but certainly not least, in terms of our first choice but aging full back, we are one injury away from full blown panic mode.

I certainly think its possible that our performance levels could recover enough (assuming we could get lucky enough with injuries) that we beat Wales next month, but to "fully expect" a win at this stage is massively overconfident imho. We have shown sweet f.a. to warrant such optimism.

Wales were awful yesterday, and have has many problems as us. I would still put us healthy favourites to beat them in a head to head.

Jewelers

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Wales were awful yesterday, and have has many problems as us. I would still put us healthy favourites to beat them in a head to head.

thats was a welsh team with 11 changes that was put out yesterday

mangobob

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Wales were awful yesterday, and have has many problems as us. I would still put us healthy favourites to beat them in a head to head.

Jewelers wrote: »

thats was a welsh team with 11 changes that was put out yesterday

Yeah that's the point. That Welsh team yesterday will bear no resemblance to what will face us on March 16th, either in terms of the line up or the attitude. If we don't improve significantly it could be a long afternoon for us.

In the meantime Wales vs England will tell a tale.

FrancieBrady

Jewelers wrote: »

thats was a welsh team with 11 changes that was put out yesterday

Yes, and blew what should have been an easy bonus point. It was Italy remember and they were coming of a win against France. To say that was a fortunate win would be an understatement. They should have had their asses handed to them.

This notion that we are suddenly the 3rd or 4th best team in the 6N's or that we have to prove ourselves all over again is a nonsense.

The Rape of Lucretia

davedanon wrote: »

Utter nonsense. You simply cannot compare performances in this way. You play the team that's in front of you.

You should compare performances in this way. England were very good and overpowered us. But despite thoroughly deserving the victory, just a handful of events gave them their scores: Earls mistake decision, and Henshaw not covering and/or Stockdale not being quite quick enough or just the luck of the bounce. The intercept was only a game chase error well pounced on, and not really relevant to the result. The first Slade try was excellent in every way, and Ireland had no similar break of the England defence. We just didnt have enough possession, let alone of high enough quality to do similar. Ireland were unable to win last week because England dominated.

Yesterday, Ireland made oodles of errors. Only Scotland made more meant we were able to win. Much of the rugby from both teams was very poor. Ireland fielded a lower level of team yesterday, but the bottom line is valid nonetheless - they played worse than they played against England. Had Ireland played yesterday with the team and level of performance as against England, and Sexton not gone off so earlsie, they would certainly have gotten the bonus point, and won more comfortably.

The team look a bit overcooked at the moment. The fatigue isn't showing in work rate but it is showing in accuracy and decision making.

The one thing that we got absolutely spot on yesterday was the breakdown. Outside of bringing down our maul and getting away with it - Scotland barely got a whiff of the ball on the deck and the one turnover I remember them getting was a slightly inconsistent call from Poite where two Scottish players went in for the ball and only one did so legally - he denied Ireland two turn overs for the same thing.

The breakdown seems like Ireland's fall back when we need to settle things. Hold onto the ball - be deliberate and accurate at the breakdown and wait for Scotland to make an error and capitalise.

Scotland were relatively error free on our ball for 50 minutes due to their work rate and line speed and so neither team built much momentum or go forward. Scotland ran out of steam faster than we did however and our forward replacement's added much more value than their counterparts.

We got little from our midfield yesterday and we could have done with a second playmaker to be honest - Kearney actually had a very dynamic game but he doesn't really ever step in as a receiver or distributor and we had no alternatives in mid field with Ringrose injured. We had strike runners at 12, 13 and 15 but no one who could fix their man and move the ball. We were forcing it a bit trying to change the point of attack but it wasn't inventive and Scotland had no trouble dealing with it. In the weather it also meant we coughed up a fair bit of ball with short pop passes. It wasn't working and I blame the players.

I don't mind playing direct and Aki / Farrell give us the platform for that but Scotland weren't for budging yesterday and we were playing so flat that our gainline was poor all day.

I thought it was a good result though. After that intercept try when we had been ramping up the pressure it would have been easy to go inside our shell with a baying away crowd and Scotland were completely primed for this. It's as good as I've seen Scotland and fairly close to their top shelf in terms of performances. It came at a price though and they couldn't hold onto the ball in the second half and went fairly flat.

I'd say this was a key game in this championship for them and they got us at a perfect time - recovering from a critical home defeat and riddled with injuries. It was yesterday or never and I thought we were comfortable enough winners in the end.

I think the team will know full well what was thrown at them yesterday and will be satisfied by the way they ground out a result. Take that intercept out of the equation and I think it could have been an ugly day for Scotland despite their effort.

I think we are right where we need to be in terms of work rate and attitude to go and put Wales into a very tough competition - but unless we find that accuracy and decision making we were missing yesterday I'm not sure we've enough in blunt force alone to beat the Welsh.

davedanon

The one major worry I have is that Murray is seriously off-colour. I thought it was just a matter of him getting up to speed, but it's not that. He is noticeably off-form. Our kick chase was feeble yesterday, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's mainly down to Murray's kicking. We need to fix this. It may even be necessary to drop him.

As for Sexton, he is really being targeted, and just legally enough for us not to be able to prevent it. However, look at what happened with Joey. Would we have scored that last try with Sexton on the pitch? No, we would not. If Johnny can only give us half a game? Fine. Let's plan for that.

thebaz

apart from a jittery start , thought Carberry had a great game - Farrell looked ponderous in midfield with Aki , nowhere near Ringrose level - not sure why Dillane didnt start ahead of Roux - apart from midfield , thought the team did ok , really like to see Joe experiment more now in this 6 Nations, we cant win grand slam , and a successful WC should be the target , but expect more conservative selections.

awec

thebaz wrote: »

apart from a jittery start , thought Carberry had a great game - Farrell looked ponderous in midfield with Aki , nowhere near Ringrose level - not sure why Dillane didnt start ahead of Roux - apart from midfield , thought the team did ok , really like to see Joe experiment more now in this 6 Nations, we cant win grand slam , and a successful WC should be the target , but expect more conservative selections.

I think our recent form means we're less likely to see experimentation, not more likely.

We're a team that really needs to get it's mojo back. Our title defence fell at the first hurdle. I questioned at the start of the tournament how we'd deal with being the team to beat, with being the favourites, and whether we have the mental strength to assert our superiority. So far you'd have to say we haven't done it too well, the usual slow start combined with some fairly lacklustre stuff at times.

I really hope 2018 wasn't the peak for this team.

stephen_n

bilston wrote: »

To be honest I don't have an issue with that. It's a ruck and SOB has his hands on the ball. If the ref won't police it then a good 9 will.

It wasn’t SOB’s hand it was POM and he was contesting the ball while on his feet. Poite May have deemed the contest unfair and told him to let go but the stamp was still and act of foul play.

molloyjh

I’ve seen people try and discuss issues in our game over the 2 matches but to my mind we addressed the majority of what went wrong against England yesterday. The biggest issue last week was that we just didn’t show up physically and got bullied all over the park. That didn’t come close to happening yesterday. Our line speed and physicality from the off was much better. Or issues yesterday were a lack of accuracy and some poor individual form. Sexton was definitely better this week though, even if Murray wasn’t.

But let’s look at the overall context. We went away from home missing McGrath, Toner, Henderson, Beirne, Stander, Henshaw and Ringrose. We lost Sexton in the first half. Murray’s form is really poor. Carbery started badly, coughing up that intercept that kept Scotland in the game when they really shouldn’t have been. But ultimately we still won fairly comfortably despite not really playing well. We’ve improved from last week and we now have a week off ahead of Italy and another week off ahead of France. It’s disappointing that we didn’t get the TBP. We really should have. But at least we’re going in the right direction.

bilston

Anyone any idea as to when the likes of Ringrose, Henshaw, Henderson, Beirne and Marmion are due back?

Aren't Toner and Stander are gone for the tournament?

awec

bilston wrote: »

Anyone any idea as to when the likes of Ringrose, Henshaw, Henderson, Beirne and Marmion are due back?

Aren't Toner and Stander are gone for the tournament?

I think Henderson was supposed to be in the frame for Italy possibly.

Bazzo

bilston wrote: »

Anyone any idea as to when the likes of Ringrose, Henshaw, Henderson, Beirne and Marmion are due back?

Aren't Toner and Stander are gone for the tournament?

Marmion due back within the next week or two I think.

BAM! uhavechlamydia

bilston wrote: »

Anyone any idea as to when the likes of Ringrose, Henshaw, Henderson, Beirne and Marmion are due back?

Aren't Toner and Stander are gone for the tournament?

Stander could be back for the last 2 rounds

stephen_n

bilston wrote: »

Anyone any idea as to when the likes of Ringrose, Henshaw, Henderson, Beirne and Marmion are due back?

Aren't Toner and Stander are gone for the tournament?

Beirne was supposed to be available for the next round. Henderson was match week 4 I think but no update since.

The Rape of Lucretia

awec wrote: »

We're a team that really needs to get it's mojo back. Our title defence fell at the first hurdle.

One match doesnt stall mojo. We lost to England - the third ranked world team and just behind us. Who were also a toe nail from beating the ABs in the Autumn, and had some power back that was lacking against us last year.

I think it a mistake to be surprised that we were beaten, and even more so to ascribe to a drop in form. One match doesnt define what that team have done over the last 30 months in 20+ games. There was no particular drop in level - just a bad day at the office, in the ups and downs of playing with an oval ball.

Technically, yes, it was the first hurdle - but it was the biggest hurdle, that just happened to be first up - it wasnt like a premiership team bombing out of the FA cup to a non-league side in the first round, or first hurdle.

Maybe some people overestimated Ireland's level, and almost couldnt conceive of being beaten let alone being beaten well - winning consistently does that. I am not even convinced at the prevailing view that Murray's form is poor. Two tough game - a scrummie never looks as good playing behind a struggling pack as he does against a dominating one.

The Rape of Lucretia

What about Ringrose and Conway does anyone know ?

thomond2006

An I alone in thinking Farrell did well yesterday? There was no highlight reel plays but he made sense good carries and was solid defensively.

Clegg

One of the criticisms leveled at Conan is that he doesn't get involved enough at test level. But he upped his workrate yesterday and had a fine game. I would've liked to see him make more metres with ball in hand, but everyone struggled in that regard. If he has another good game against Italy at least we'll know we don't have to flog Stander every game.

The Rape of Lucretia

thomond2006 wrote: »

An I alone in thinking Farrell did well yesterday? There was no highlight reel plays but he made sense good carries and was solid defensively.

You are not. I though he did well. No Ringrose in creativity, but well up to the level. Good game, worked hard, no clangers.

Burkie1203

thomond2006 wrote: »

An I alone in thinking Farrell did well yesterday? There was no highlight reel plays but he made sense good carries and was solid defensively.

He did his job. Was kind of he did What is expected to do performance

Carbery stitched him up good and proper for that last Scotland Penalty

thomond2006

ESPN credits Jack Conan with 19 tackles.

Marengo

Just looking at the Laidlaw post match interview.

In appearance he has always struck me as a sneaky looking individual with down looking eyes. Small minded and he really backs it up post match.

Former Former

Marengo wrote: »

Just looking at the Laidlaw post match interview.

In appearance he has always struck me as a sneaky looking individual with down looking eyes. Small minded and he really backs it up post match.

And you can tell from the small indents on the left temple and the curvature of his forehead that he is a rogue and ne'r do well!

Can't argue with science

Buer

Chris Farrell was grand. I think people had lofty expectations for him on the back of his Welsh performance last year which was unfair on him. He has still played very little rugby since then and probably hasn't hit full stride.

I've no idea if Ringrose will be back for Italy but I imagine Henshaw will be so I don't see him being retained. He needed a big showing yesterday if he wanted to really push his case for RWC inclusion but it just didn't click for him without actually doing much wrong.

The Rape of Lucretia

Marengo wrote: »

Just looking at the Laidlaw post match interview.

In appearance he has always struck me as a sneaky looking individual with down looking eyes. Small minded and he really backs it up post match.

That sounds very Nazi Untermensch. Its well he isnt Jewish.

Marengo

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

That sounds very Nazi Untermensch. Its well he isnt Jewish.

I don't like the cut of his jib. Nothing anti Scot, Russell, Hogg etc have a more open countenance.

lbc2019

Marengo wrote: »

Just looking at the Laidlaw post match interview.

In appearance he has always struck me as a sneaky looking individual with down looking eyes. Small minded and he really backs it up post match.

Really Queen?

Marengo

lbc2019 wrote: »

Really Queen?

Queen?

lbc2019

Marengo wrote: »

Queen?

Its an expression I use, substitute bruh if you wish

antietam1

Jewelers wrote: »

thats was a welsh team with 11 changes that was put out yesterday

10 changes no?
They really should have done better in their two games,

lbc2019

The Scottish crowd were very kuntish yesterday too. Miserable bunch

Marengo

lbc2019 wrote: »

Its an expression I use, substitute bruh if you wish

Bruh? FFS what are you trying to say? Are you related to Laidlaw:D Is he your 'bruhther'.

Defaulter1831

Marengo wrote: »

Just looking at the Laidlaw post match interview.

In appearance he has always struck me as a sneaky looking individual with down looking eyes. Small minded and he really backs it up post match.

Couldn't agree more, no matter what race, nationality he looks like a kunt. Funny you'll get smartarse comments for that but label all the Scottish crowd ***** and you're fine.

Defaulter1831

The amount of sh*te about booing from the crowd. I think grown men should be able to deal with it, are we in kindergarten?

lbc2019

Marengo wrote: »

Bruh? FFS what are you trying to say? Are you related to Laidlaw:D Is he your 'bruhther'.

Well he aint heavy tbf

The Rape of Lucretia

Defaulter1831 wrote: »

The amount of sh*te about booing from the crowd. I think grown men should be able to deal with it, are we in kindergarten?

The grown men dont care a whit about it.

That one is a bit like religion. There are puritans for whom it is blasphemy, there is no reasoning with them, and Ireland is the one of the last bastions of it, with a little enclave of those who like to use it as a calling card of their rugby purity.
For the rest of the world. Meh. Its an anachronism dating back to the days of gentlemen chaps playing rugger for fun, and was an affectation to display the depth of your rugby heritage and distinction.

The effect on Sexton either way would be no more than a butterfly flapping its wings off the coast of Japan. So the question is moot anyway.

lbc2019

Defaulter1831 wrote: »

The amount of sh*te about booing from the crowd. I think grown men should be able to deal with it, are we in kindergarten?

Its pathetic- this isnt soccer. They booed everything

Marengo

Murray performing a bit like Strings WC 2007. Hope he gets his mojo back. Strings never recovered internationally, he was just turning 30..

awec

lbc2019 wrote: »

Really Queen?

Marengo wrote: »

Queen?

lbc2019 wrote: »

Its an expression I use, substitute bruh if you wish

Marengo wrote: »

Bruh? FFS what are you trying to say? Are you related to Laidlaw:D Is he your 'bruhther'.

Defaulter1831 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more, no matter what race, nationality he looks like a kunt. Funny you'll get smartarse comments for that but label all the Scottish crowd ***** and you're fine.

Defaulter1831 wrote: »

The amount of sh*te about booing from the crowd. I think grown men should be able to deal with it, are we in kindergarten?

lbc2019 wrote: »

Well he aint heavy tbf

lbc2019 wrote: »

Its pathetic- this isnt soccer. They booed everything

Enough of this nonsense. Increase the standard of your posts.

Dubinusa

Wales were fortunate last week. France handed them the game.
I think England will beat them. England played us like fiddles and with Farrell back where he belongs, I think they're too good.
As far as we're concerned, we have learned a lot over the past few games.
We saw that playing like crap against Argentina and Scotland, somehow we pulled out the wins.
We also learned that RK is a game changer for us at fb.
We know that we can't change up on the fly and that's got to change.
Conor Murray has been shyte!! And yet Schmidt sticks with him. That will be detrimental imo.
Ringrose must play and we have to get him the ball.
Our depth is grand, except at hooker. Cronin is not gauged good enough to start and Best is so so.
Larmour should be the back up fb. Henshaw was lost there.
Sexton will always be targeted. Late and hard and I believe this should be reciprocal. Having our best player constantly targeted without retaliation is futile.
Against Italy, I think we should rest Murray and give Cooney the reins. I would give Cooney the start against France, just to mix it up.
I think, we can all agree that England with Farell at 10 and Billy V are a totally different side.
Factor in, that Jones has dumped the big lumps in the back row and is using faster and more agile Flankers and they are a much improved side.
Our response to that would be to quit box kicking and don't give them the platform. Henderson would have to start and SOB also to negate their physicality. I would also go with Ruddock against them.
England of course are beatable. I think we learned a lot from that match. One thing I think is, England were dominant and yet we were in it for about 65 minutes.
They were unable to put us away and that's not the best sign for them.
I think we beat Italy and France and we're going to push Wales close.

Southdubin6

Where’s the England French thread?

Bazzo

Have just watched the match. More fool me reading through the thread beforehand, was expecting an awful performance, overall seemed a sort of job done showing to me, I don't think Ireland were ever really overly uncomfortable.

Was also expecting Aki to have had a horror show from the comments... To be fair, if you remove his defensive work, breakdown work, tight carrying and short passing and pretty much only look at the two penalties he gave away he was very bad.

antietam1

lbc2019 wrote: »

The Scottish crowd were very kuntish yesterday too. Miserable bunch

There was booing at the women's game too.

lbc2019

Bazzo wrote: »

Have just watched the match. More fool me reading through the thread beforehand, was expecting an awful performance, overall seemed a sort of job done showing to me, I don't think Ireland were ever really overly uncomfortable.

Was also expecting Aki to have had a horror show from the comments... To be fair, if you remove his defensive work, breakdown work, tight carrying and short passing and pretty much only look at the two penalties he gave away he was very bad.

Thats boards rugby!

Wegians89

Bazzo wrote: »

Have just watched the match. More fool me reading through the thread beforehand, was expecting an awful performance, overall seemed a sort of job done showing to me, I don't think Ireland were ever really overly uncomfortable.

Was also expecting Aki to have had a horror show from the comments... To be fair, if you remove his defensive work, breakdown work, tight carrying and short passing and pretty much only look at the two penalties he gave away he was very bad.

Both penalties are also debatable particularly the first one. Felt he came through legally and had every right to go for the ball.