Minister for Health Simon Harris and family trapped in home by protesters.

Snow Garden

Snow Garden wrote: »

There was a great story in Galway A&E when Cowen was Taoiseach. It was reported in the newspapers.

He was doing a walkthru of the Galway Regional A&E and the HSE managers upstairs got word of it. They instructed the porters and staff to move all the trolleys into an unused area just off the A&E. He walked through and saw no trolleys/chaos (the usual) and when he was gone, they moved the trolleys back into the A&E.

I found a link to this. I thought it has been deleted before.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/mayor-accuses-hse-of-hiding-the-reality-1.755103

A hospital porter told me he was instructed to do it with no questions asked.

Snow Garden

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you think the entire eHealth team that is trying to bring our health services into the 21st century with digital services should be fired?


And the digital team who are managing the main HSE website, the undertheweather and askaboutalcohol websites and more - they should all be fired too?

Now you are just being an idiot. I never said any of that and you know it.

flazio

We've wandered off the point about if it's OK to target the private residence of someone who we feel have aggrieved us.
For what it's worth I think it is not.

end of the road

Berserker wrote: »

Any idea who is really behind this? Doubt it's the nurses, they've more class than this.



A proper slap on the wrists from the courts back then would have put a stop to this kind of nonsense. They let them off, so that makes these imbeciles think that it's acceptable and you have the hard left cheering them on behind closed doors.

they were found not guilty were they not? being found not guilty is not letting someone off or someone away with something.

mikeym

His family werent trapped and the protesters were not on his property.

Although I disapprove with people protesting outside politicians houses regardless of what party they represent.

Protest outside his constituency office or the HSE Hq or even the Dail.

AndrewJRenko

Snow Garden wrote: »

Now you are just being an idiot. I never said any of that and you know it.

You said " I would say all functions and all grades except front line staff".


They're not front line staff, so do you want them to be fired or not? Presumably not, based on your reaction.


Now are there any other front line staff you don't want fired? The people who purchase the supplies and equpment - should they be fired? The people who run the payroll operation - should they be fired?


If your own proposal of " I would say all functions and all grades except front line staff" doesn't really stand up, maybe you'd like to tell us again who should be fired?

Berserker

mikeym wrote: »

His family werent trapped and the protesters were not on his property.

Although I disapprove with people protesting outside politicians houses regardless of what party they represent.

Protest outside his constituency office or the HSE Hq or even the Dail.

They were standing outside his front garden. Would you risk going outside with a newborn baby, if you were in his shoes or his wife's?

tayto lover

flazio wrote: »

We've wandered off the point about if it's OK to target the private residence of someone who we feel have aggrieved us.
For what it's worth I think it is not.

It’s not a nice thing to do but I would have been in favor of targeting Phil Hogan when he targeted our homes during the water issue and threatened to reduce the water to a trickle. Couldn’t stand that lad.

Lone Stone

unless the guy was found taking back handers over this whole utter scam, that's just not really appropiate protesting is it his wife and kids have nothing to do with his job.

So if he had to leave his house the baby was sick or something they would have just moved off yeah? no shouting pushing or blocking them? let alone how intimidating it would be to have them outside the house.

Gimme A Pound

There should be water charges. Particularly stupid to complain about the condition of some water mains yet to refuse to pay anything.

flazio

mariaalice wrote: »

So if he had to leave his house the baby was sick or something they would have just moved off yeah? no shouting pushing or blocking them?

In this instance, I actually think they would, but by dismissing it as OK would set a dangerous precedent. It's not as if anyone gets vetted before being allowed to take part in a protest.

Colonel Claptrap

How can a government - any government - hope to attract a high caliber individual to head up the Dept of Health when they are treated like this?

The last individual to voluntarily sign up for the job was Mary Harney. To her credit, at least she wanted the job. Everyone since has looked longingly at the exit the moment they walked in the door. And I can't blame them.

When you distill all of the problems of the HSE down to 1 individual and treat them as a lightning rod - you are in effect letting everybody else off scott free.

Stop giving the job to career politicians. Take the massive budget of the department, and try to attract a Fortune 500 CEO. Let them tear the HSE to shreds and build it back up again. It would be cheaper in the long run, and we might even get a functional health system in the end.

tayto lover

Fernando Mushy Flapjack wrote: »

There should be water charges. Particularly stupid to complain about the condition of some water mains yet to refuse to pay anything.

Wasn’t it proved that people are paying.
I even think they gave my car tax to it at one stage.

flazio

flazio wrote: »

In this instance, I actually think they would, but by dismissing it as OK would set a dangerous precedent. It's not as if anyone gets vetted before being allowed to take part in a protest.

It's not alright in any way shape or form.

Jimbob1977

Completely unacceptable.

Could you imagine if PBP or Anti-Austerity ever got into power?

Goodbye EU. Hello Venezuela.

jmayo

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Firstly, FG has been in power for 8 years, it's time to end this 'inherited mess' nonsense.

We are still suffering from the private banking debt that cowan's government shafted us with and indeed the increased public spending of the bertie years.
And we will for many years.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Secondly, he, as part of the Government, has decided to reduce the resources available to the Government by lowering taxation, which is a pro-cyclical, destructive policy.

Let nobody be mistaken, such policies end with people dying unnecessarily. I'm sorry that Simon Harris was bothered on his weekend off, but there are people out there who rely on public services who are enduring far more real problems, including the unnecessary death of loved ones, via austerity and funding cutbacks.

My sympathy is very limited.

The health sevices in this country were shyte when Harris was in school nevermind the last couple of years.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't FG as an election promise in 2011 promise to dismantle the HSE one can only assume they had a plan on what came next, or do you think they lied?

They might have, might mind you if not for the fact that labour, the party with major ties to the unions, went into power with them.
There was no way in hell Labour would ever have gone against their union buddies.

And in the last election Fg was tied in with a bunch of independents who again would never challenge all those HSE voters in their constituencies.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If he's claiming that staff need to be laid off, it's not unreasonable to ask 'which staff'?

Fair fooks to ya, Andy you will defend the indefensible right to the very end.
No wonder you are always defending what will probably turn out to be one of the world's most expensive children's hospitals.
Hell you must have kloved PPARS. :rolleyes:

Why not get rid of the all the nursing managers, appoint actual managers and have nurses nursing.
Then gut all those admin staff in purchasing and especially accounts who still do not abide by their legal obligations to pay suppliers within a mandated statutory time fram.

Then get rid of the ones collecting stats for how well the HSE and the hospitals are performing and instead actually employ front line staff and people who actual will make a difference.

Also fire whoever "pasted" all the shyte into a file belonging to a Garda Whistleblower because they are a Grade A village idiot.

That is of course assuming the story is true.
And yes we know due to the the usual shyte that is now no longer HSE but Tusla.
All the same though when it comes to wastage and downright incompetence.

Oh and also fire the fookers that left children with rapists despite being told.

Oh and stop renaming hospitals every other week to cut down on costs of rebranding.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why is it too late now? Same contractual situation for the employees concerned.


I haven't worked IN the HSE, but I have worked WITH the HSE. I didn't see too many 'comfy middle management' layers. I saw people working their asses off with poor resourcing, doing their best to create good outcomes.

And in some cases, maybe even in most cases, it actually works. We don't get news headlines for all the babies successfully born today and all the hip operations successfully completed this week.

et's not get manipulated by the press into hysterics.

If there are people who need to be laid off, please give specifics of where they are - what functions/grades need to go.

With the amount of shyte you are pedaling I thought you working in the HSE HQ.

Do you do a stand up routine somewhere ?

Snow Garden

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You said " I would say all functions and all grades except front line staff".


They're not front line staff, so do you want them to be fired or not? Presumably not, based on your reaction.


Now are there any other front line staff you don't want fired? The people who purchase the supplies and equpment - should they be fired? The people who run the payroll operation - should they be fired?


If your own proposal of " I would say all functions and all grades except front line staff" doesn't really stand up, maybe you'd like to tell us again who should be fired?

You asked which roles/grades.

I said all roles/grades. Not every single person - that would be stupid. But there is overstaffing across all roles and grades (except in front line). If you read this post, you will understand....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/mayor-accuses-hse-of-hiding-the-reality-1.755103

You will ask for names next.

But hey why don't you continue to nit pick and ignore the actual argument i.e. HSE is a massive wasteful bureaucracy.

You sound like a union rep??

TheRiverman

Snow Garden wrote: »

There was a great story in Galway A&E when Cowen was Taoiseach. It was reported in the newspapers.

He was doing a walkthru of the Galway Regional A&E and the HSE managers upstairs got word of it. They instructed the porters and staff to move all the trolleys into an unused area just off the A&E. He walked through and saw no trolleys/chaos (the usual) and when he was gone, they moved the trolleys back into the A&E.

Similar situations still exist today,closing elective orthopaedic wards and reopening them as trolley parking areas to show fewer patients in A&E.The INMO always include those hid away patients in their people on trollies count whereas the HSE don't.

McMurphy

mariaalice wrote: »

So if he had to leave his house the baby was sick or something they would have just moved off yeah? no shouting pushing or blocking them?

The photos anyone seen shows a handful of dozers standing on a footpath outside his house.

Wrong - yes.

That was wrong in itself, but I have seen no evidence whatsoever that he was trapped in his home, or that the people involved were involved in intimidating or thuggish behaviour as has been claimed in this thread multiple times.

In fact the news articles I've been reading quote the Gardai as saying it attended a peaceful protest.

Simon might be seeking some kind of martyrdom here to take the heat of something else, which I just can't put my finger on right now........

Snow Garden

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

How can a government - any government - hope to attract a high caliber individual to head up the Dept of Health when they are treated like this?

The last individual to voluntarily sign up for the job was Mary Harney. To her credit, at least she wanted the job. Everyone since has looked longingly at the exit the moment they walked in the door. And I can't blame them.

When you distill all of the problems of the HSE down to 1 individual and treat them as a lightning rod - you are in effect letting everybody else off scott free.

Stop giving the job to career politicians. Take the massive budget of the department, and try to attract a Fortune 500 CEO. Let them tear the HSE to shreds and build it back up again. It would be cheaper in the long run, and we might even get a functional health system in the end.

Hmmm. I think he/she would become very angry and eventually give up.
The HSE management and Unions would fill him with nonsense throughout. They do it time and time again.

flazio

mariaalice wrote: »

It's not alright in any way shape or form.

I completely agree, but I'm not going to make any prejudgements about the people who turned up today and just presume they would behave like those Jobstown muppets.
Thankfully nothing violent happened. They weren't confronted violently and now we need to calmly explain that this action is too risky and open to be abused by less well intended individuals.

JohnnyFlash

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Simon might be seeking some kind of martyrdom here to take the heat of something else, which I just can't put my finger on right now........

Complete conspiratorial nonsense. Real tinfoil hat stuff.

end of the road

Fernando Mushy Flapjack wrote: »

There should be water charges. Particularly stupid to complain about the condition of some water mains yet to refuse to pay anything.

people are not refusing to pay anything for water. just refusing to pay twice for it, via their taxes and then charges.

flazio

flazio wrote: »

I completely agree, but I'm not going to make any prejudgements about the people who turned up today and just presume they would behave like those Jobstown muppets.
Thankfully nothing violent happened. They weren't confronted violently and now we need to calmly explain that this action is too risky and open to be abused by less well intended individuals.

But if you were inside looking out how do you tell if they are just frustrated individuals who are harmless or loons who might do your family some harm.

McMurphy

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Complete conspiratorial nonsense. Real tinfoil hat stuff.

The tinfoil hat people are the ones who seem so desperate to blow the story out of all proportion.

It was wrong to go near a private residence, especially that with a newborn baby, and a family enjoying their Sunday afternoon. Period.

No need for the mythical tales of intimidating or thuggish behaviour and people being trapped.

Look how that ended up with the jobstown incident.

Dakotabigone

He will resign this week.

Gimme A Pound

Dakotabigone wrote: »

I think he will resign this week.

Fixed your post.

lbc2019

tikkahunter wrote: »

Blanchardstown .Accessible from the M50 and fro people that have to travel from the country. The new central rehabilitation hospital was priced at 70 million and is coming in over at 71 million as it was planned , tendered and built correctly.

as was pointed out, that's not a greenfield site

AndrewJRenko

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Stop giving the job to career politicians. Take the massive budget of the department, and try to attract a Fortune 500 CEO. Let them tear the HSE to shreds and build it back up again. It would be cheaper in the long run, and we might even get a functional health system in the end.

If such a person was foolish enough to take on the job for maybe 1/10th of the salary that they are used to, they'd quickly work out that running a public service is very difficult to running a business. THey'd soon work out that getting investment in your 'business' has no connection with how efficient your business is or how many 'customers' you take on. They'd soon learn that you don't get to filter your customers by charging fees - they keep coming. They have this awful habit of not getting sick on your schedule or budget, but you still have to keep servicing them.

Snow Garden wrote: »

You asked which roles/grades.

I said all roles/grades. Not every single person - that would be stupid. But there is overstaffing across all roles and grades (except in front line). If you read this post, you will understand....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/mayor-accuses-hse-of-hiding-the-reality-1.755103

You will ask for names next.

But hey why don't you continue to nit pick and ignore the actual argument i.e. HSE is a massive wasteful bureaucracy.

You sound like a union rep??

OK, so how many of the eHealth and digital teams should be fired then?

BuzzMcdonnell

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

If such a person was foolish enough to take on the job for maybe 1/10th of the salary that they are used to, they'd quickly work out that running a public service is very difficult to running a business. THey'd soon work out that getting investment in your 'business' has no connection with how efficient your business is or how many 'customers' you take on. They'd soon learn that you don't get to filter your customers by charging fees - they keep coming. They have this awful habit of not getting sick on your schedule or budget, but you still have to keep servicing them.



OK, so how many of the eHealth and digital teams should be fired then?

As many as needed so they are not overstaffed, perhaps?

MrMusician18

tikkahunter wrote: »

So is spending 1.6 billion on a childerns hospital which could have been built for a 1/4 of that on a greenfield site .So there you go.

Yet another clown who doesn't understand this project. Almost half of the cost of this hospital is built up of ancillary costs, like developing IT systems, transferring services and equipment.

Even if this hospital was in Blanch, it would cost a very similar amount.

I don't know what the fascination is with having this hospital near the M50, it's not as if it's not a carpark for a good chunk of time. At least in James there's other ways of getting there.

HappyAsLarE

Poor Simon Harris has to take the blame for a crappy health service when the truth is that he has very little influence in how good or bad it is. The clerical officers that run the system are the real problem.

hawkelady

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Yet another clown who doesn't understand this project. Almost half of the cost of this hospital is built up of ancillary costs, like developing IT systems, transferring services and equipment.

Even if this hospital was in Blanch, it would cost a very similar amount.

I don't know what the fascination is with having this hospital near the M50, it's not as if it's not a carpark for a good chunk of time. At least in James there's other ways of getting there.

Haha. You won’t get there by helicopter anyway as they’ve said the air corps won’t be able to land there !! Clown indeed

lbc2019

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Poor Simon Harris has to take the blame for a crappy health service when the truth is that he has very little influence in how good or bad it is. The clerical officers that run the system are the real problem.

the clerical officers? The lowest rung on the CS admin ladder? Yeah... lets blame them... :rolleyes:

KevinCavan

I don’t like the guy, but he has been no worse than any other health minister. Health is an area that needs a huge overall. All the top fat cats within the H.S.E. would have to go in the morning to have any chance of changing it. Hundreds of office workers would need to be fired and a radical overhaul of the system would need to take place. The government as a whole would need to give itself the power to cut, cut, cut anybody who isn’t a front line worker. That’s probably never going to happen and the system will remain fcuked.

FionnK86

Dakotabigone wrote: »

He will resign this week.

And wouldn’t he be right?

He’s working for the country, we’re his boss. And if my boss turns up to my door on a Sunday morning I’d quit my job.

If he sticks through it I’ll only have more respect for him. At least if I make a few mistakes in my job I can go home and get some RnR.

Birneybau

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Poor Simon Harris has to take the blame for a crappy health service when the truth is that he has very little influence in how good or bad it is. The clerical officers that run the system are the real problem.

Hahaha, clerical officers. You reckon powerless people at the bottom of the rung are the main problem? Give me strength

Dr. Bre

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Poor Simon Harris has to take the blame for a crappy health service when the truth is that he has very little influence in how good or bad it is. The clerical officers that run the system are the real problem.

Clerical workers on about 30k doubt they making big decisions !

The Bishop Basher

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Poor Simon Harris has to take the blame for a crappy health service when the truth is that he has very little influence in how good or bad it is. The clerical officers that run the system are the real problem.

Would leave you wondering why we need a minister at all..

No responsibility and no accountability despite a salary that should command both..

Dakotabigone

Rennaws wrote: »

Would leave you wondering why we need a minister at all..

No responsibility and no accountability despite a salary that should command both..

What is his take home pay?

appledrop

I've no time for Simon Harris but that protest was a disgrace. His poor wife. Do they not remember what it's like to have a 3 week old baby:eek: I doubt he has even been home much with all the problems in health dept at the moment. So she must be going through a nightmare of a time.

If you want to protest fair enough go on a march or outside the Dail but leave the family home out of it.

all the private sector genius evident in this thread, ive a mighty idea that one of ye should get all entrepreneurial with: a company making barstools for all the experts on boards.ie

noodler

Amirani wrote: »

You are aware the healthcare budget has pretty much doubled over the past 10 years right? How much bigger do you think it should before it's not acceptable to get a group together to protest outside a family home? :rolleyes:

You haven't a notion about healthcare economics.

Doubled?

No, it hasn't.

Spanish Eyes

Every Minister for Health ends up in Angola. They have all been disasters because they have to sort out the Unions and so on.

The only Minister for Health that had any tiny success was Mary Harney. She brought in the centres of excellence for cancer treatment and tidied a few local things up.

Other than that there is no Health Minister who survived tenure, Varadker included.

noodler

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Clerical workers on about 30k doubt they making big decisions !

I doubt he means the grade...

lbc2019

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Clerical workers on about 30k doubt they making big decisions !

Try 24k starting

TCM

Deleted User wrote:

It’s ended now. Disgraceful behavior, especially where a newborn baby is involved.

Did the baby know there was a protest?

TCM

Wheeliebin30 wrote:

Who would want to become a politician nowadays?

There's no shortage of people wanting to be politicians.

TCM

spurious wrote:

More of the scumbaggery that surrounded Joan Burton in her car.

No she was in the car.