How can someone in their 30s afford a house - PLEASE READ MOD WARNING IN OP

Yurt2

GreeBo wrote: »

So you are pro-communist then?

That does explain why you think you are entitled to something for nothing.

I'm not telling anyone to pull up the bootstraps (or socks), I'm telling people that their expectations have to match reality and if they dont, thats not everyone elses problem to solve.

You're a silly person, you really are.

GreeBo

Yurt! wrote: »

You're a silly person, you really are.

and you cant defend your point of view with making personal attacks, so our interaction is now at an end.

Yurt2

GreeBo wrote: »

and you cant defend your point of view with making personal attacks, so our interaction is now at an end.

Oh no. Woe is me.

Idbatterim

Originally Posted by GreeBo View Post
So you are pro-communist then?

That does explain why you think you are entitled to something for nothing.

I'm not telling anyone to pull up the bootstraps (or socks), I'm telling people that their expectations have to match reality and if they dont, thats not everyone elses problem to solve.

I agree with you about reality! The young irish people should give our farce of a government, a proper kick up the ass and force them to actually start solving the housing issue for them....

GreeBo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

3 bed semis and where there are good transport links 2 bed apartments.

But we have already had posters tell us they dont want to live in those areas.
Also, whats that commute like?

Hyzepher

I always find it funny that people advocate for additional housing and policies that will lower house prices right up to the point where they buy their house and then are immediately against those exact policies.

The fact of the matter is that there will always be demand for houses in "nice" areas. Demand makes prices rise and those people who already have money will win the race to buy those properties. It is then in their interest to ensure that those prices remain high - as it is in the interest of the community around them. The chance of affordable houses being built in that area is next to nil.

If you are a low or average income earner and want to buy a house then you need to compete for houses that only low or average earners want - anything more and you're going to lose out to someone with more money than you. Unfortunately those types of houses are in areas that rich people do not want to live - and you can guess the reasons for that.

There is no solution to this. Even with policy changes, those with more money will out bid those without, so lowing prices will have no effect on houses in "nice" areas.

The only solution is to live in the cheaper areas or live outside Dublin. A more effective plan would involve government to make other centres more attractive by building infrastructure outside of Dublin and providing tax breaks for job creation in those areas.

martingriff

Yurt! wrote: »

I own a house, thankyouverymuch, and I'm grateful for it. Unlike you I'm not running around on some clueless anti communist crusade, telling less fortunate people to pull up their bootstraps because you ate pot noodles in a box room for a few years.

The reason you're getting so much blowback is because you're obnoxious about your circumstances, and obnoxious about others.

But that is the reality for everyone if you want something you have to have the money to get it and you have to find ways to save be it rent somewhere, house share, live with parents for longer, not getting the latest gear, not going out, eating in, less holidays, cheeper car or the eating of pot noodles. You want it then sometimes you have to work for it. That is not arrogance that is REALITY. I know it is not pleasant to hear and it is not easy to do (I know from experience) but again its called life and living like an adult

Ush1

Idbatterim wrote: »

I am talking about the total disregard for proper planning. Farcical investments in transport systems that could house hundreds of thousands near by, who could walk to them. The kind of bat **** crazy off the wall ****, that they tend to do on the continent, totally mental stuff, like proper planning, sustainable development etc... Really quite fascinating stuff!

Office space for tends of thousands in the docklands completed and or under construction? You know how many apartments are being developed? a drop in the ocean! You think it might have been reasonable to zone more residential? To have a worker coming down a twenty floor block and a two minute stroll to work, than coming from 30km outside dublin?

Simple questions, but no doubt youll have an issue with the "logic"

DCC is controlled by Sinn Fein essentially as the majority of the councillors are SF. Any little thing you try to do will be protested and argued against. Look at the back of the new Central Bank. Signs saying "Local Councillors : Please Save Our Family Homes".

abcabc123123

pwurple wrote: »

I'm not sure why it's even something to be encouraged generally... living alone. We are social creatures. We look after eachother. We live in communities. This push to single living isn't the right thing to do IMHO. It's not good for mental health or physical health, isolation is miserable. Rubbing the corners off eachother makes us all better.

You can live alone and still be in a community and have your social needs met. I do. I see and talk to my neighbours almost daily.

Eric Cartman

GreeBo wrote: »

But we have already had posters tell us they dont want to live in those areas.
Also, whats that commute like?

Those areas are mostly green fields, nobody has ever felt threatened by some sheep ,

Its probably a lot shorter than the back arse of ashbourne or drogheda

Yurt2

martingriff wrote: »

I agree in relation to land taxes actually for development left idle. Put again where how many can be built is a finite resource and how would you keep prices down

I think I read somewhere (I don't have the time to dig it out), that land prices make up something like 40 percent of the cost of a new build in Ireland on average. An aggressive land value tax targeted at desirable development windows would dampen that figure a lot. A lot of that land value is speculative as developers or investment vehicles won't move to develop the land until they can make a killing. Hoarding and speculation.

Edit: It would also spur good use of land in core urban areas. The amount of dereliction in Dublin, Cork and Limerick is unreal. There is currently very little disincentives for sitting on valuable land in city centres unused. You simply don't see it to the same extent in Northern Europe - because there are aggressive policies targeting it.

Ush1

Yurt! wrote: »

A land value tax is the most important step(among many) the government can take. It incentivises productive land use, and disincentivises land hoarding and speculation. This has worked from everywhere from Austria to Taiwan. The government were mulling it a few years ago but got spooked when interest groups convinced them it would be a vote loser.

From what I have read previously it's a very small amount of land hoarding going on relatively speaking in the city centre.

There is an amount of vacant spaces above retail units in town which could be potentially used for residential purposes but again I don't think it would make a huge impact.

GreeBo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Those areas are mostly green fields, nobody has ever felt threatened by some sheep ,

Its probably a lot shorter than the back arse of ashbourne or drogheda

Its 38mins from Drogheda to Connolly at 8am via train.
It would take me an awful lot longer than that to get to Connolly.

Its sheep now, you build cheap housing an who exactly do you think is going to live there?

The nice normal people in Tallaght dont live there for the craic, they live there because thats where they can afford to live. Why do you think an estate of affordable housing in a greenfield site is going to be any different to live in compared to an estate in Tallaght in 5 years time?

GreeBo

Ush1 wrote: »

From what I have read previously it's a very small amount of land hoarding going on relatively speaking in the city centre.

There is an amount of vacant spaces above retail units in town which could be potentially used for residential purposes but again I don't think it would make a huge impact.

+1

A land tax that results in people selling up their land is going to increase the demand for that land if a builder can make money from it, thats not going to make the land or the eventual houses any cheaper.

The only way you get cheap housing in high demand areas is if someone else subsidizes it.

Ush1

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Those areas are mostly green fields, nobody has ever felt threatened by some sheep ,

Its probably a lot shorter than the back arse of ashbourne or drogheda

So continue with urban sprawl? Sure that's what we've been doing this whole time.

Yurt2

GreeBo wrote: »

+1

A land tax that results in people selling up their land is going to increase the demand for that land if a builder can make money from it, thats not going to make the land or the eventual houses any cheaper.

All evidence suggests otherwise. Yet again your solution is to do nothing and eat pot noodles.

Eric Cartman

Ush1 wrote: »

So continue with urban sprawl? Sure that's what we've been doing this whole time.

Well i think the city needs to build up with high quality apartments too but theres many many lobbies interested in that not happening

klaaaz

GreeBo wrote: »

Yes, but that was the point of those Central Bank rules...?
I'm not sure what point you are making now.

Access to cheap credit has most certainly been removed, just ask any of the people who can't get a mortgage that they would have easily gotten 10 years ago.

/edit

I'm not saying credit isnt cheap at the moment, but thats only pertinent if you can access it, which is much harder now.

People who are prudent can still get mortgages no matter what salary they are on. The Central Bank has not removed access to cheap credit, they've restricted it a bit which is good.
Interest rates like the Euribor are still at their lowest point (cheapest), they are nowhere near the level they were in 2006 for example.

GreeBo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Well i think the city needs to build up with high quality apartments too but theres many many lobbies interested in that not happening

Do you think high quality apartment in the city centre are going to be affordable to single incomes on 40K?

martingriff

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Those areas are mostly green fields, nobody has ever felt threatened by some sheep ,

Its probably a lot shorter than the back arse of ashbourne or drogheda

Until we have all those people having to go to work and home

GreeBo

klaaaz wrote: »

People who are prudent can still get mortgages no matter what salary they are on. The Central Bank has not removed access to cheap credit, they've restricted it a bit which is good.
Interest rates like the Euribor are still at their lowest point (cheapest), they are nowhere near the level they were in 2006 for example.

So you are saying people who can afford to repay credit are getting credit....you think this is a bad thing or how a normally functioning economy should work?

Eric Cartman

GreeBo wrote: »

Its 38mins from Drogheda to Connolly at 8am via train.
It would take me an awful lot longer than that to get to Connolly.

Its sheep now, you build cheap housing an who exactly do you think is going to live there?

The nice normal people in Tallaght dont live there for the craic, they live there because thats where they can afford to live. Why do you think an estate of affordable housing in a greenfield site is going to be any different to live in compared to an estate in Tallaght in 5 years time?

Affordable 200k houses are not the problem, people who work and buy their own houses were never the issue in an area , its when you start concentrating social housing that the issues occur, im not talking about building more social housing in dublin.

GreeBo

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Affordable 200k houses are not the problem, people who work and buy their own houses were never the issue in an area , its when you start concentrating social housing that the issues occur, im not talking about building more social housing in dublin.

So you want to build large areas of affordable housing, but not for people who need government help to get a house?

Where should the social housing be built if you dont want it in your green field areas?

lainey_d_123

GreeBo wrote: »

Ok, and I mean this with the greatest of respect, you need to grow up a bit in your expectations on life.

Whats wrong with landlords? Where do you expect people to rent if there are no landlords?

The sort of properties involved when people own multiple properties are, again with the greatest of respect, probably not the sort of properties you are going to buy buying with ain income of 40 something grand a year.

You prefer no rent controls? In a time of massive demand? And you think thats going to make houses cheaper to buy?!

I love how you take everything to extremes. I didn't say there should be no landlords. I said there should not be people letting out 30+ properties and making enormous profits from a basic human need, housing. There should be rental caps to prevent rents going up to ridiculous levels so that people on even good incomes can't afford to live alone in a studio flat. Funny how it works in plenty of countries, but you think it's ridiculous.

Cyrus

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I love how you take everything to extremes. I didn't say there should be no landlords. I said there should not be people letting out 30+ properties and making enormous profits from a basic human need, housing. There should be rental caps to prevent rents going up to ridiculous levels so that people on even good incomes can't afford to live alone in a studio flat. Funny how it works in plenty of countries, but you think it's ridiculous.

presume you are against people selling food as well?

lainey_d_123

Pussyhands wrote: »

Ah ffs, if all that is luck then every single one of us in the country is lucky.

If you were born in Ireland and not Iraq, that's luck.

If you have two working hands, that's luck.

If your parents raised you well, that's luck.

Of course it's bloody luck. Not every single one of us in this country is able bodied, healthy and intelligent, let alone have parents who raised us well. But look how you just take that all for granted.

I'm well aware of how lucky I am compared to someone born in Iraq, especially a woman. Which is why I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm doing better in life than poor Iraqi women and claim it's because I worked hard. I consider it luck that I was born in a first world country, had access to education and freedom of choice regarding marrying or not.

Pity that some people who have all that and then much more through luck can't recognise it.

lainey_d_123

Cyrus wrote: »

presume you are against people selling food as well?

Here you go again with the childish hyperbole. If every supermarket in the country suddenly decided to raise their prices 500% just because they could, even though it would result in people starving, then yes, I'd be against that.

GreeBo

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I love how you take everything to extremes. I didn't say there should be no landlords. I said there should not be people letting out 30+ properties and making enormous profits from a basic human need, housing. There should be rental caps to prevent rents going up to ridiculous levels so that people on even good incomes can't afford to live alone in a studio flat. Funny how it works in plenty of countries, but you think it's ridiculous.

So you want 30 landlords instead of 1 landlord with 30 properties?

What difference does it make to you how many properties your landlord has?

Why do you care if your landlord is making enormous properties?
Rents are going up to the levels that people can and are willing to pay. If they weren't then rents would drop.

Tbh all I'm hearing is sour grapes again.

Cyrus

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Here you go again with the childish hyperbole.

amcalester

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Of course it's bloody luck. Not every single one of us in this country is able bodied, healthy and intelligent, let alone have parents who raised us well. But look how you just take that all for granted.

I'm well aware of how lucky I am compared to someone born in Iraq, especially a woman. Which is why I'm not arrogant enough to think I'm doing better in life than poor Iraqi women and claim it's because I worked hard. I consider it luck that I was born in a first world country, had access to education and freedom of choice regarding marrying or not.

Pity that some people who have all that and then much more through luck can't recognise it.

While we may consider ourselves lucky to be born in Ireland, what we do with that luck is down to the individual.

Some people, even with the advantages of birth we have, will still screw it up and look for others to blame.