License application and the 3 month auto-refusal

Chiorino

I'm waiting on my licence renewal having left all docs into the station in October. I've called back 4 times since December (licence expired then) and no one seems to know where it is or what's going on.

alanmc

tac foley wrote: »

So basically, your rifle has one serial number on the receiver and an entirely different one on the barrel. How does that work out?

Actually, Ive just had a look and there is a serial on the receiver. It's on the underside though, so to view it you need to separate action from stock.

The bolt and barrel also have serial numbers, none of which match.

Hmmmmmm.

garv123

Handed in my application Friday 22 Feb, applied for a substitution and got a letter today looking for a other 80quid. Guess I'm better off paying it for a new licence, might be more hassle ringing about it.

Emmersonn

I handed in an application for a substitution on 15th Jan. Our station is one of those that is randomly open. I was lucky that I met the FO that day and have been unable to make contact since . Still waiting.

Grizzly 45

Find your divisional HQ for your area,and talk to the designated firearms officer there.Tell them you have been trying to get in touch with the local FO,as this is now running overdue and you would like an answer on whats going on?Please&Thanks.

alanmc

Finally got a call from the Supers office today telling me my grant letter was on its way.

freddieot

Congrats !

Chiorino

And finally got my grant letter last Friday.

Cass

Over 6 months. You're more patient than i am. Congrats on getting it all the same.

Chiorino

Cass wrote: »

Over 6 months. You're more patient than i am. Congrats on getting it all the same.

What's the alternative apart from going up to the station every couple of weeks?? Getting thick with a guard at the counter won't help and there's no higher power to appeal to, is there?

Cass

Chiorino wrote: »

What's the alternative apart from going up to the station every couple of weeks??

Going to the station daily, every couple of days. Not weeks.

Also its a renewal so it's an FCR. I'd be making an appointment with the Super. Ringing his/her office and making an appointment.

AS a renewal you would have received it 3 months prior to the expiry of the current license. So if it's going on 6 months your old license would have expired before you got the new one. What happens with your firearms ? Legally you are no longer licensed so not allowed to be in possession of them.

These are issues i'd be raising when making the appointment. IOW AGS and the Super are causing you to be in breach of the law by their inaction.

Chiorino wrote: »

I'm waiting on my licence renewal having left all docs into the station in October. I've called back 4 times since December (licence expired then) and no one seems to know where it is or what's going on.

If they've lost it or think they have or YOU think they have tell them that is a GDPR and Data protection violation. €250,000 fine and jail time. That'll light a fire under their ar*e.

Getting thick with a guard at the counter won't help and there's no higher power to appeal to, is there?

You're right, it won't, and i'm not advocating for that.

However the flat foot at the window is a nobody, and even the Sergeant or whomever deals with the applications are unimportant as it's the Super that signs off on them. So anyone under the rank of Super if inconsequential.

You can, as said above, contact the Super directly. They are not a God and cannot refuse to take a meeting, however long it takes to arrange one. The FPU (Firearms Policy Unit) are becoming less and less helpful to the point they are confrontational when rang, but are still an option.

Failing all the above make an appointment with the Chief Super. S/he'll probably try to pass it off as the Super's issue but you explain your situation and the GDPR violation and it'll get results.

Also make sure you have detailed notes of all the information from when you dropped off the renewal/application, times you rang, times you dropped into the station, who you spoke to, etc, etc.

I've been through this myself, only once thankfully. After 2 months i had heard nothing back from my local station (i normally used the district, but was told i had to start using the local one). I tried ringing, calling in, etc. to no avail.

A day after the 3 month time frame elapsed i essentially lived in the town until i got someone in the station. Long story short they were ignorant, rude and the paperwork was sitting on the top of a filing cabinet, unopened. I took it from them, went home, checked all the paperwork, made an appointment to the see the Super (which took ten days) went in with my application and times/dates of all action till that point, including the way i was spoken to and treated.

I left the meeting with the Super and two days later i got my receipt letter, the next day the grant. The day after these i got an apology letter signed by the Super for the way i was treated, spoken to and an assurance it would not happen again plus instruction to continue to send all renewals and application to the district station bypassing the local one.

Chiorino

Thanks for the advice Cass. I'll bear it in mind next time renewal rolls around.

Cass

Please bear in mind i'm not chastising you or saying what you did was wrong. We all know the struggle of trying to work with certain members that are indifferent or confrontational.

It's just advice, and even after doing your best, and everything you can, you may still find yourself waiting well past the legal allowed time frame.

Grizzly 45

Also there is the "ultima ratio",if you are getting nowhere of calling the Garda Ombudsman,and making a complaint.Be aware that I have never heard of them upholding a complaint RE firearms matters in Ireland,and I have a list of nigh on 30 cases tht they found no cause for action...But another 1or 20 to the list will be a great help one day...

However,it isnt pleasent for a Super to arrive into the office one morning to find someone of equal or superior rank sitting behind his desk having a look at a file that he has ben been abit tardy in dealing with,or being down right obstreperious with the complainent. It does tend to focus their minds rather sharpish.:rolleyes:

BattleCorp

Cass wrote: »

If they've lost it or think they have or YOU think they have tell them that is a GDPR and Data protection violation. €250,000 fine and jail time. That'll light a fire under their ar*e.

It would be hard to prove you dropped in the application seeing as they don't give out receipts.

Cass

Yup, hence my point on being impartial or confrontational.

It's also why i go in with my own and get whomever is on the desk to sign it.

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

It would be hard to prove you dropped in the application seeing as they don't give out receipts.

Not really...If you are dropping it in person to the station office,ask for the duty Gardas name and ID number who took the letter.By rights it should also be enterd in the station duty log as well.Thats what it's there for after all.:)

dc99

Even without the receipt, usually the date you sign and date the application is the day of or the day before you drop it in to AGS.
Any reasonable person would accept hat that date is proof enough of the date of application. You would never post date an application would you?

Cass

The problem is no one bar the applicant and the Garda processing the application see that date and so when the Gardaí enter the date they start to process the application it's THAT date that is used for their stats and not the one on the FCA1.

As said in either this thread or another recently, it's why they can claim over 90%+ of applications are done on time or more accurately within the time frame.

dc99

Absolutely accept that Cass, I was just saying that if there was a dispute on when the application was handed in - you can state that the date on the paper reflects when it was dropped in roughly.
I had a similar issue - dropped it in end last year, start date was being quoted back as this year. But I stuck to my guns (lol couldn’t help myself ) and just repeated the correct drop in date. (I also kept a note of each interaction or failed interaction in my desk diary...)

Cass

Spot on.

BattleCorp

dc99 wrote: »

Absolutely accept that Cass, I was just saying that if there was a dispute on when the application was handed in - you can state that the date on the paper reflects when it was dropped in roughly.
I had a similar issue - dropped it in end last year, start date was being quoted back as this year. But I stuck to my guns (lol couldn’t help myself ) and just repeated the correct drop in date. (I also kept a note of each interaction or failed interaction in my desk diary...)

The date on the application form isn't worth diddly-squat if they lose the paperwork.

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

The date on the application form isn't worth diddly-squat if they lose the paperwork.

Funny that,It only seems to be firearm applications that get lost in AGS,never speeding fines,warrants,and all the other paperwork a police force deals with on a daily basis.Seems to be,or was rather a common problem so you'd think they would put procedures in place to prevent this loss of sensitive personal data.Might be a good idea to inform in future the data protection comissioner,if your applications get lost again???