Incident at Roscommon hotel (asylum seekers)

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

And if you had grown up in same, you'd likely be one of the ones cheering along at his investment. The vast majority of us would.

I don't know what this means? But if it has anything to do with me cheering people breaking the law, then no, I would not be cheering them at all.

Wibbs

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't know what this means?

That much is evident.

But if it has anything to do with me cheering people breaking the law, then no, I would not be cheering them at all.

How do you know what is an unjust law? You may think you have that all figured out, but you don't. You're basing your ideas of "just" and "unjust" on the society and culture you've grown up in and what you've experienced in your life. Like we all do. All of those are variable moving goalposts, sometimes scarily so. If you were around in 1940's Ireland, like most people you would think laws against divorce, Gay people, women working after marriage, etc would be pretty "just". To quote yourself, the devil's in the details.

claiomh solais

bubblypop wrote: »

Oh no, I understand what you want to do here. But sorry, there is no justification for any crime.
It doesn't matter if the offender has his/her own reason for doing something. The offender is always wrong. In every criminal case.
It doesn't matter what they think or what their reasons are.
Break the law........ You are wrong.

This is the kind of thinking I would expect from a child, who only understands that their parent is always right. Guess what, many times in history, Nation-States have been wrong. terribly wrong in fact - and created laws that were wrong, or even evil.

You must think the state to be some all-knowing perfect arbiter of justice or something? You realise laws are changed all of the time, because people decided the laws were wrong.

The decriminalization of homosexuality in Ireland is a great example of the Irish state being completely wrong in the past, and it's law was wrong.

What about the Easter Rising, or fighting for civil rights? all those movements were ''against the law'' at the start.

rgossip30

There used to be an asylum house where I live .I remember a drunken Irish wan outside lying on the bonnet of a car saying how she wanted black cock with 5 blacks ready to mount.I take from that some want them.

malinheader

bubblypop wrote: »

I am from a small leitrim town, we had a direct provision centre in the town a few years ago. There was no issues at all. People settled there or they moved somewhere else after their time in the centre. It gave employment to many people in the town & everyone welcomed the occupants with no problems.

Sounds idyllic. How come the people who support these migrants are saying now that the way in which direct provisions are run is wrong and not working. You make it sound like a holiday camp. Sorry but I think you're only telling us what you want to hear.

Arson is not an unjust law.
If you break any law, you are by definition the offender, & the offender is always wrong. If a law is unjust, then the courts & government decide & it is changed.

But seriously, the amount of people trying to justify arson on this thread is shocking.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

That much is evident. How do you know what is an unjust law? You may think you have that all figured out, but you don't. You're basing your ideas of "just" and "unjust" on the society and culture you've grown up in and what you've experienced in your life. Like we all do. All of those are variable moving goalposts, sometimes scarily so. If you were around in 1940's Ireland, like most people you would think laws against divorce, Gay people, women working after marriage, etc would be pretty "just". To quote yourself, the devil's in the details.

Patronising as ever.
You are wrong in your assessment of me.

greenpilot

malinheader wrote: »

Sounds idyllic. How come the people who support these migrants are saying now that the way in which direct provisions are run is wrong and not working. You make it sound like a holiday camp. Sorry but I think you're only telling us what you want to hear.

I have been reading this thread with interest:

A few points I would like to make.

1. Most folks commenting here have no direct experience with AS's nor do they live in towns in which there are migrants or planned to be migrants at some stage. There have been numerous comments here from people living in towns/villages with AS's and their experiences, in the majority, have been favourable. Unfortunately, these points have been ignored in the course of this debate.

2. I live just outside Ballaghaderreen and, from the time it was announced to us that we would be hosting migrants, I was unhappy with the idea purely because of the perceived pressure a large, instantaneous, growth in population would have on an already stretched town in the resources arena. However, apart from a busy GP's clinic at the beginning of this saga, there was little pressure on the town.

3. There is already a large population of 2nd Generation Pakistani residents already living in Ballaghaderreen. This was due to an employment source which since closed down, but the families stayed. They are very much part of the community. They go to the same schools, visit their friends houses, partake in Mass, Church ceremonies, (in as much capacity as they can, as they are Muslim. There is actually a running joke among them as they always seem to get the Three Wise Men parts for the Christmas play!), work in our businesses and, in some cases, run their own businesses. Even they have been the subject of the usual Racist and Xenophobic remarks typical of an Irish rural town, but they have learned to ignore it and just get on with their lives.

4. If you showed most people who are anti-migrant a map and asked them to identify Syria, the majority of them would not be able to point to its position on the map. This is a fact, one which I will get to further on.

5. I do not like the way these people were thrust upon small communities without consulting them, but this is not the migrants fault. It is the fault of the officials who made these decisions.

6. When the Syrians arrived in Ballagh, it was assumed by some locals that the Pakastani community would welcome them with open arms. This, of course, was incorrect. As one Pakistani resident told me, "They do not even speak the same language. They have a completely different culture and attitude to life, women's rights, ethos etc". It took almost a year and a half before the two communities eventually got together, and this was purely based around religion.

7. It has been mentioned here that the local economy benefited from their arrival. I cannot see how. Apart from a small number of paid staff in the hotel, most of the people who work at the hotel are volunteers. Plus, the €20 which the Syrians receive is not spent locally. It is saved up and eventually sent back to families in Syria to help support those left behind.

8. There are comments that most of the migrants are single males and are not running from repression. I have lived in Syria in 2009-2010, just before the Arab Spring. It is heart-breaking to see once beautiful and thriving towns and cities now reduced to piles of rubble, and I do mean rubble. A lot of the men left due to the fear that they would have been "utilised" by one side of the other. Most of the groups are families with very small children. In 6 cases, the children were placed in a boat while the parent(s) stayed onshore in the hope that their children could have a better chance of survival elsewhere. Can you imagine how this must have felt?

Finally, I am producing a documentary about one Pakistani man in Ballaghaderreen who has decided to run for the Council elections in May. He will be visiting Rooskey tomorrow to talk at a meeting in relation to the Arson attack. I would love it if any of you good people could pop along to Rooskey and voice your, very strong and interesting, arguments to camera for the Doc? It would be an excellent opportunity to get your point out there and become part of a lively and important debate.

Thank you in advance.

Paul

Zorya

greenpilot wrote: »

I have been reading this thread with interest:

A few points I would like to make.

1. Most folks commenting here have no direct experience with AS's nor do they live in towns in which there are migrants or planned to be migrants at some stage. There have been numerous comments here from people living in towns/villages with AS's and their experiences, in the majority, have been favourable. Unfortunately, these points have been ignored in the course of this debate.

2. I live just outside Ballaghaderreen and, from the time it was announced to us that we would be hosting migrants, I was unhappy with the idea purely because of the perceived pressure a large, instantaneous, growth in population would have on an already stretched town in the resources arena. However, apart from a busy GP's clinic at the beginning of this saga, there was little pressure on the town.

3. There is already a large population of 2nd Generation Pakistani residents already living in Ballaghaderreen. This was due to an employment source which since closed down, but the families stayed. They are very much part of the community. They go to the same schools, visit their friends houses, partake in Mass, Church ceremonies, (in as much capacity as they can, as they are Muslim. There is actually a running joke among them as they always seem to get the Three Wise Men parts for the Christmas play!), work in our businesses and, in some cases, run their own businesses. Even they have been the subject of the usual Racist and Xenophobic remarks typical of an Irish rural town, but they have learned to ignore it and just get on with their lives.

4. If you showed most people who are anti-migrant a map and asked them to identify Syria, the majority of them would not be able to point to its position on the map. This is a fact, one which I will get to further on.

5. I do not like the way these people were thrust upon small communities without consulting them, but this is not the migrants fault. It is the fault of the officials who made these decisions.

6. When the Syrians arrived in Ballagh, it was assumed by some locals that the Pakastani community would welcome them with open arms. This, of course, was incorrect. As one Pakistani resident told me, "They do not even speak the same language. They have a completely different culture and attitude to life, women's rights, ethos etc". It took almost a year and a half before the two communities eventually got together, and this was purely based around religion.

7. It has been mentioned here that the local economy benefited from their arrival. I cannot see how. Apart from a small number of paid staff in the hotel, most of the people who work at the hotel are volunteers. Plus, the €20 which the Syrians receive is not spent locally. It is saved up and eventually sent back to families in Syria to help support those left behind.

8. There are comments that most of the migrants are single males and are not running from repression. I have lived in Syria in 2009-2010, just before the Arab Spring. It is heart-breaking to see once beautiful and thriving towns and cities now reduced to piles of rubble, and I do mean rubble. A lot of the men left due to the fear that they would have been "utilised" by one side of the other. Most of the groups are families with very small children. In 6 cases, the children were placed in a boat while the parent(s) stayed onshore in the hope that their children could have a better chance of survival elsewhere. Can you imagine how this must have felt?

Finally, I am producing a documentary about one Pakistani man in Ballaghaderreen who has decided to run for the Council elections in May. He will be visiting Rooskey tomorrow to talk at a meeting in relation to the Arson attack. I would love it if any of you good people could pop along to Rooskey and voice your, very strong and interesting, arguments to camera for the Doc? It would be an excellent opportunity to get your point out there and become part of a lively and important debate.

Thank you in advance.

Paul

Personally I agree with our country offering refuge to war refugee families in such numbers as we can adequately cope with while not neglecting present citizens.

If people are traversing the world looking for a better economic situation than they have presently then I feel no obligation towards them at all. Just as I don't expect New Zealand to welcome me with welfare payments and accommodation even though I would love to go there.

In terms of documentaries while there is a narrative to be shared about some experiences here, and an interesting one no doubt, for context it might be worth telling the Irish story of small amounts of immigration thus far, mostly refugees, where there has been generally integration and then going to a place like Malmo where there are huge problems with integration. BBC reports from Sweden could be interesting background research materials.

Wibbs

greenpilot wrote: »

4. If you showed most people who are anti-migrant a map and asked them to identify Syria, the majority of them would not be able to point to its position on the map. This is a fact, one which I will get to further on.

Well to be fair GP if you asked the majority of people to point to Syria on a map they wouldn't be able and would wave an unsure finger in the general area of the Middle East, regardless of their opinions on the matter. For the craic bring a map with you when shooting your documentary and ask the average man and woman in the street to point to Syria on a map and see what the results are.

BTW not the talking heads on both sides of the argument who will fight for the camera like schoolgirls taking a group selfie with prepared rhetoric at hand. Which is an inherent problem with documentaries of this nature. Where the camera points will reflect the maker's view and the people who will be willing to talk with you will bring their own selection bias to things.

Experiment for readers: Remember that poor little Syrian boy drowned and washed up on a Greek beach? The child that had all the headlines and clutching at pearls at the tragedy of it all? Without running to google, what was his name? Quite an "anglo" name it is too, so no glut of consonants fighting in the mouth to say it, or remember it. But after the "thoughts and prayers" and the Facebook craw thumping with rainbow flags died down after a few weeks, he's just another image that will only be remembered when Reeling In the Years gets to the year in question, no doubt with Adele providing the soundtrack.

A general ignorance beyond an easily forgotten headline is a universal trait of people the world over.

5. I do not like the way these people were thrust upon small communities without consulting them, but this is not the migrants fault. It is the fault of the officials who made these decisions.

I agree 100%. Without the basic courtesy of consultation on all sides we will encourage more problems on all sides.

6. When the Syrians arrived in Ballagh, it was assumed by some locals that the Pakastani community would welcome them with open arms. This, of course, was incorrect.

as well as idiotic. It would be the same as expecting a bunch of Irish people dropped in the middle of Italy to be welcomed purely because they're both White and likely to be Catholic.

8. There are comments that most of the migrants are single males and are not running from repression.

The majority of migrants that have come into Europe since the late noughties and not just from Syria are males. These are the EU and UN figures on the matter. It is also a fact that in the camps for Syrian refugees in Jordan the adult gender split is equal. A spilt one would not expect to see if men where leaving their families behind to forge a path to freedom. If we want to offer a home and the chance of a better life and we should then we should be going straight to the source of those camps.

That's a separate subject to fleeing from repression. Syria is a war zone and no mistake and Syrian refugees naturally and rightfully get our sympathy and attention. However, migrants are not just coming from war zones like Syria, a large percentage are coming from places like Albania, Mali, Nigeria, Kosovo, Gambia. The Syrian crisis opened the door and routes to countries like Germany and Sweden to others. Precious few asked to stay in their first country of landfall in Europe.

Boggles

Wibbs wrote: »

Experiment for readers: Remember that poor little Syrian boy drowned and washed up on a Greek beach? The child that had all the headlines and clutching at pearls at the tragedy of it all? Without running to google, what was his name? Quite an "anglo" name it is too, so no glut of consonants fighting in the mouth to say it, or remember it. But after the "thoughts and prayers" and the Facebook craw thumping with rainbow flags died down after a few weeks, he's just another image that will only be remembered when Reeling In the Years gets to the year in question, no doubt with Adele providing the soundtrack.

Jaysus, seriously do you really need to use a dead child to point score?

You are more than capable of making your points without resorting to that level.

Kivaro

bubblypop wrote: »

I am from a small leitrim town, we had a direct provision centre in the town a few years ago. There was no issues at all. People settled there or they moved somewhere else after their time in the centre. It gave employment to many people in the town & everyone welcomed the occupants with no problems.

Bubbly, either you are a liar or very naive.
And that's the sentiment I'm getting from similar posters as yourself on this topic.
I can assure you, due to human nature, not everyone welcomed asylum seekers to that Letrim town. It is extremely naive to think that every single person welcomed them. How many were the "many" people it gave employment to? Are "many" jobs justifiable to dump large numbers of economic migrants into small rural areas?

From the Irish Times yesterday: claims for asylum in Ireland have reached a 10 year high. And after Brexit, these numbers will drastically increase.
You and your fellow cohorts try to call us racists/bigots etc. for wanting to discuss the asylum/economic migration issue that we have in this country.
I can count a Pakistani as one of my closest friends and even he says that he is seeing issues in Ireland with the numbers of economic migrants (the vast majority of asylum seekers applying for refuge in Ireland) coming to the country. But then again, he is well educated, and has real-life experience.

Peter Sutherland is dead. And his concept of de-homogenising (my word) European countries should die with him. Varadkar, Zappone and especially Coveney were big followers of Sutherland's migration philosophy for Europe. Merkel started Sutherland's goal of undermining national homogeneity in Europe, but it has turned out to be a complete disaster.
Migration is a natural phenomenon, so let it naturally evolve. Don't force it on us because we are "too Irish", "too Dutch", "too German" etc.

Boggles

Kivaro wrote: »

I can count a Pakistani as one of my closest friends

BBFAN

Kivaro wrote: »

Bubbly, either you are a liar or very naive.
And that's the sentiment I'm getting from similar posters as yourself on this topic.
I can assure you, due to human nature, not everyone welcomed asylum seekers to that Letrim town. It is extremely naive to think that every single person welcomed them. How many were the "many" people it gave employment to? Are "many" jobs justifiable to dump large numbers of economic migrants into small rural areas?

From the Irish Times yesterday: claims for asylum in Ireland have reached a 10 year high. And after Brexit, these numbers will drastically increase.
You and your fellow cohorts try to call us racists/bigots etc. for wanting to discuss the asylum/economic migration issue that we have in this country.
I can count a Pakistani as one of my closest friends and even he says that he is seeing issues in Ireland with the numbers of economic migrants (the vast majority of asylum seekers applying for refuge in Ireland) coming to the country. But then again, he is well educated, and has real-life experience.

Peter Sutherland is dead. And his concept of de-homogenising (my word) European countries should die with him. Varadkar, Zappone and especially Coveney were big followers of Sutherland's migration philosophy for Europe. Merkel started Sutherland's goal of undermining national homogeneity in Europe, but it has turned out to be a complete disaster.
Migration is a natural phenomenon, so let it naturally evolve. Don't force it on us because we are "too Irish", "too Dutch", "too German" etc.

And can I ask why your Pakistani friend came to live in Ireland? I presume for economic reasons?

BBFAN

I actually think there's nothing lower than migrants to a country looking down on other migrants.

enricoh

BBFAN wrote: »

I actually think there's nothing lower than migrants to a country looking down on other migrants.

If treasure Ireland gets swamped with migrants our world leading welfare rates n free housing will have to be cut to make it less attractive.
Its simply self preservation.

Questioning sacred Cows

The refugee and asylum seeker issue is pretty much a cottage industry for many of the NGOs who only serve to compound the problem in order to justify and perpetuate their existence with very little effort going to actually helping these people.

I posted up a thread with a very measured and well argued presentation by Lauren Southern to the Europen Parliament but the powers that be here deemed it unfit for boards and locked and removed it.

malinheader

Questioning sacred Cows wrote: »

The refugee and asylum seeker issue is pretty much a cottage industry for many of the NGOs who only serve to compound the problem in order to justify and perpetuate their existence with very little effort going to actually helping these people.

I posted up a thread with a very measured and well argued presentation by Lauren Southern to the Europen Parliament but the powers that be here deemed it unfit for boards and locked and removed it.

You are spot on. The real genuine people who are trying to help these people say that direct provision centres are not the answer for the migrants or a lot of the communities they are

located in.

irishgeo

malinheader wrote: »

Questioning sacred Cows wrote: »

The refugee and asylum seeker issue is pretty much a cottage industry for many of the NGOs who only serve to compound the problem in order to justify and perpetuate their existence with very little effort going to actually helping these people.

I posted up a thread with a very measured and well argued presentation by Lauren Southern to the Europen Parliament but the powers that be here deemed it unfit for boards and locked and removed it.

You are spot on. The real genuine people who are trying to help these people say that direct provision centres are not the answer for the migrants or a lot of the communities they are

located in.

So what is the answers. All moaning here about having a debate on the matter but don't provide any answers to the questions. Typical NIMBYs. We might grow and learn from these people.

I do wonder are all the people who are against the country taking in migrants from war torn regions are worried that if we take too many their own generous welfare payments might be cut.

I welcome the helping out of migrants. The country is full of EU citizens who have travelled to Ireland and stayed and its a better place for it. But the majority of them aren't brown.

malinheader

irishgeo wrote: »

So what is the answers. All moaning here about having a debate on the matter but don't provide any answers to the questions. Typical NIMBYs. We might grow and learn from these people.

I do wonder are all the people who are against the country taking in migrants from war torn regions are worried that if we take too many their own generous welfare payments might be cut.

I welcome the helping out of migrants. The country is full of EU citizens who have travelled to Ireland and stayed and its a better place for it. But the majority of them aren't brown.

Jesus that's some high horse your on. Liked the way you threw in the colour too.nice touch. Suppose your one of the people who can sit back welcome migrants and not care how there located, but hey whatever makes you happy. I don't have the answers but also alot of people on here think they do by just letting more and more come which I disagree with. Also im not on welfare I pay tax which helps pay welfare for a lot of these migrants.

irishgeo

malinheader wrote: »

irishgeo wrote: »

So what is the answers. All moaning here about having a debate on the matter but don't provide any answers to the questions. Typical NIMBYs. We might grow and learn from these people.

I do wonder are all the people who are against the country taking in migrants from war torn regions are worried that if we take too many their own generous welfare payments might be cut.

I welcome the helping out of migrants. The country is full of EU citizens who have travelled to Ireland and stayed and its a better place for it. But the majority of them aren't brown.

Jesus that's some high horse your on. Liked the way you threw in the colour too.nice touch. Suppose your one of the people who can sit back welcome migrants and not care how there located, but hey whatever makes you happy. I don't have the answers but also alot of people on here think they do by just letting more and more come which I disagree with. Also im not on welfare I pay tax which helps pay welfare for a lot of these migrants.

Im not on any high horse. But you proved my point. You don't have the answers and are not willing to offer one but your against them coming in to rural areas or small towns. Maybe its best if we stick them in the city where half the time none of the neighbours know each other or speak to each other. Yeah that will help them a lot. Then you'll be out complaining dublin gets everything.

malinheader

irishgeo wrote: »

Im not on any high horse. But you proved my point. You don't have the answers and are not willing to offer one but your against them coming in to rural areas or small towns. Maybe its best if we stick them in the city where half the time none of the neighbours know each other or speak to each other. Yeah that will help them a lot. Then you'll be out complaining dublin gets everything.

As I said I don't have the answers, nobody does so is it right to just keep letting them in. In my opinion no.

Rural areas are out of sight out of mind.My opinion again.

I'm sure you're well aware of all the issues in rural areas which is the reason for this thread

In Dublin couple of weeks ago. We cant house our own but are still set on bringing in more to shelter.

Kivaro

As soon as the words "Asylum Seeker" is used in a discussion in Ireland, there is immediately a barrier thrown up by a small minority to make that discussion a one-sided topic only, with the usual cry of racism thrown at anyone who has questions. You can see that here on this thread.
The people who want to censor any discussion on asylum seekers have this mental image of a person fleeing war-torn Syria, and that's the poster child that they have in their heads.

The reality is completely different. The overwhelming majority of asylum seeker requests in Ireland are bogus. That is the reality. And the overwhelming majority of them do not come from war torn countries. The overwhelming majority are economic migrants.

Look at the most recent example that we can read about on The Times of Ireland today. The first female asylum seeker in Ireland, originally from Malawi, to run for election in this country, has been found out to be a liar on her asylum claims. Ellie Kisyombe, who is running for Dublin City council, also tried to claim asylum in England, before being transferred back to Ireland where she had a student visa. She claims that she went into Direct Provision as soon as she applied for asylum upon arriving at Dublin airport from Malawi in 2010. However, The Times found out that she was a student at Bristol University between 2007 and 2010. Then went home to Malawi, and then flew to Dublin to claim asylum. In 2011, she flew to England in order to claim asylum there.

This type of scam is indicative of the vast majority of asylum applications in Ireland, and unfortunately genuine asylum seekers could fall through cracks as a result. It's a pity that the Irish media will not ask the same type of questions that an English paper does. Kisyombe was canvasing in the Dublin's north inner city yesterday, and it would be have been a good time for the likes of RTE to ask questions about her asylum claims. But we all know that RTE and other Irish media outlets would not dare to ask probing questions because of the magic shroud that mutes any discussion when the words "asylum seeker" are used. She should be deported, but that's never going to happen either.

stefanovich

Surrounded by water I fail to understand how Ireland has any asylum seekers apart from those that rock up to Irish embassies abroad. (Do we even have any?)

VeryTerry

stefanovich wrote: »

Surrounded by water I fail to understand how Ireland has any asylum seekers apart from those that rock up to Irish embassies abroad. (Do we even have any?)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.esri.ie/pubs/SUSTAT65.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjPyeu7wsLgAhXEmLQKHSKmCwgQFjABegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw2gU1CAjkn2KDo9XoIb7hUj

If you skip down to page 48 of that you will get the information you're after.

Wibbs

Boggles wrote: »

Jaysus, seriously do you really need to use a dead child to point score?

Ah yeah, cultch the oul pearls and hope for "outrage" at that. :rolleyes: So do you remember his name without looking up Google? I strongly suspect not.

And as for point scoring that child's image and story was flashed up everywhere at the time and was used by all sorts as a pro or anti migrant totem.

Boggles

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah yeah, cultch the oul pearls and hope for "outrage" at that. :rolleyes: So do you remember his name without looking up Google? I strongly suspect not.

I haven't a clue what his name is. Nor would I pretend to.

Have you a point?

Giveaway

Wibbs wrote: »

Ah yeah, cultch the oul pearls and hope for "outrage" at that. :rolleyes: So do you remember his name without looking up Google? I strongly suspect not.

And as for point scoring that child's image and story was flashed up everywhere at the time and was used by all sorts as a pro or anti migrant totem.

And the father made sure he had a life jacket. The father was the people smuggler and fled right back to Kobani, to avoid criminal charges brought by the Turkish authorities. The name was Alam Kurdi(sic) and he deserved so much better in life and in death.

Mad_maxx

irishgeo wrote: »

Im not on any high horse. But you proved my point. You don't have the answers and are not willing to offer one but your against them coming in to rural areas or small towns. Maybe its best if we stick them in the city where half the time none of the neighbours know each other or speak to each other. Yeah that will help them a lot. Then you'll be out complaining dublin gets everything.

Rural folk don't like when Irish people move from louth to kerry, why would they be happy to have syrians arrive in their clannish little village?

Mad_maxx

Kivaro wrote: »

As soon as the words "Asylum Seeker" is used in a discussion in Ireland, there is immediately a barrier thrown up by a small minority to make that discussion a one-sided topic only, with the usual cry of racism thrown at anyone who has questions. You can see that here on this thread.
The people who want to censor any discussion on asylum seekers have this mental image of a person fleeing war-torn Syria, and that's the poster child that they have in their heads.

The reality is completely different. The overwhelming majority of asylum seeker requests in Ireland are bogus. That is the reality. And the overwhelming majority of them do not come from war torn countries. The overwhelming majority are economic migrants.

Look at the most recent example that we can read about on The Times of Ireland today. The first female asylum seeker in Ireland, originally from Malawi, to run for election in this country, has been found out to be a liar on her asylum claims. Ellie Kisyombe, who is running for Dublin City council, also tried to claim asylum in England, before being transferred back to Ireland where she had a student visa. She claims that she went into Direct Provision as soon as she applied for asylum upon arriving at Dublin airport from Malawi in 2010. However, The Times found out that she was a student at Bristol University between 2007 and 2010. Then went home to Malawi, and then flew to Dublin to claim asylum. In 2011, she flew to England in order to claim asylum there.

This type of scam is indicative of the vast majority of asylum applications in Ireland, and unfortunately genuine asylum seekers could fall through cracks as a result. It's a pity that the Irish media will not ask the same type of questions that an English paper does. Kisyombe was canvasing in the Dublin's north inner city yesterday, and it would be have been a good time for the likes of RTE to ask questions about her asylum claims. But we all know that RTE and other Irish media outlets would not dare to ask probing questions because of the magic shroud that mutes any discussion when the words "asylum seeker" are used. She should be deported, but that's never going to happen either.

You hardly expect left wing activists like those who make up the majority at RTE, to do the job of actual traditional journalism?

Yurt2

For the sake of those who are genuine refugees and politically persecuted, who we have a genuine responsibility to protect, we need to get much much quicker at processing these claims and sending the bogus on their way. There have been people from South Africa, Chile and South Korea in the system, sometimes for years. If this causes offence, it is not my intention, but those people shouldn't be entertained on first application and certainly shouldn't be granted multiple appeals for their own sake and for the sake of genuine applicants. We have limited capacity to help, and I'd much prefer if that capacity was directed towards the right people.

Yurt2

Here's a stat bank where one can see the applications by country for 1996 to 2016 (2017 and 2018 aren't yet up for some reason). It most interestingly shows the figures for 'other' countries (rarely published by Irish authorities, but they pass them to the UNHCR who helpfully do).

For instance, in 2016, we can see there was an application from a Japanese national for asylum. Why? Heaven knows, you may call me hard-hearted, but I can't think of a credible reason why a Japanese national would be entertained for an application never mind granted. And he/she can brazen it out through all the appeals processes, with all the legal fees carried by the taxpayer if he/she wishes.


http://data.un.org/Data.aspx?d=UNHCR&f=indID%3AType-Ref

Boggles

Yurt! wrote: »

For instance, in 2016, we can see there was an application from a Japanese national for asylum. Why? Heaven knows, you may call me hard-hearted, but I can't think of a credible reason why a Japanese national would be entertained for an application never mind granted.

Is he or she definitely a Japanese National?

If so, according to the stats one Irish National applied for asylum in Germany in 2016 and 1 in South Africa, 2 in Britain and 1 in the US.

4068ac1elhodqr

Yurt! wrote: »

We have a genuine responsibility to protect, we need to get much much quicker at processing these claims and sending the bogus on their way.

Agree, but you only have to look across the water at Brexitland (at last month's 'Iranians in the Eng Channel' episode) to discover 'less than 10%' of the hundreds plucked from the sea have actually been returned to France or Iran.

Seems a long way to travel across the entire EU mainland and risk of life by sailing the busiest shipping channel in the world in an inflatable. Maybe they just like tea and yorkshire puddings?

With no ID or information to cross-check, how can genuine cases be verified and helped, over purely economic cases.

QuintusFabius

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOM68dSD8Nc

I see the other thread was shut down by the far left neo fascists of Boards.
"People of Roosky shout and cheer - refugees are welcome here"
And no one in the crowd is from ****ing Roosky!!

Zorya

The population of the entire African continent was 140 million in 1900, is 1.2 billion now, is projected to be 2.5 billion at conservative estimates in 2050 and 4 billion in 2100.

People do not economically migrate from the very poorest countries or from countries that are economically developed. They either cannot afford to or they don't want to, depending.
It is countries that are going through some uptick in economic development with its attendant stresses, that produce the most economic refugees - as we saw ourselves in our own history.


Somewhat more migration at the moment happens within the continent of Africa than internationally and is causing its own serious problems as populations of African nation states report that they do not approve of more inward migration to their countries.


Even though numbers have slowed somewhat, migration from Africa - which is largely economic migration - between 2010 and 2017 came to 1.5 million sub-Saharan Africans to Europe.

A 2017 Pew Research Report surveyed countries like Nigeria, Ghana, Ethiopia, Kenya and others and found that millions have expressed a desire to move as soon as the opportunity presents itself, eg up to 75% of all people surveyed in Nigeria and Ghana.

https://twitter.com/pewresearch/status/976827862874513408



These are some of the demographic reasons upon which I base my objection to the word migrant being made an amalgamation of economic migrant and refugee. No country in the west, not even the richest, would be in any way equipped to deal with even a minute fraction of the numbers desiring to economically migrate, and that will be in a better position to do so as their ecnomies somewhat improve in Africa, and given that this is so, we should enforce our rights to national sovreignty.

If we do not put a stop to the cynical conflation of war refugee and economic migrant we actually set up a Hunger Games sort of situation. This is cruel and irresponsible and naive.


At some point in the future even the most bleeding heart liberal will realise that a halt would have to be called to massive economic migration in order to prevent the collapse of welfare states, and so by accepting economic migrants now, pretending they are refugees, we are causing a competition to get out and in under the barrier before it goes down.

dav3

QuintusFabius wrote: »

I see the other thread was shut down by the far left neo fascists of Boards.

Zorya wrote: »

At some point in the future even the most bleeding heart liberal will realise...

Steady on lads, you're going all Gemma O'Doherty on us.

Zorya wrote: »

The population of the entire African continent was 140 million in 1900, is 1.2 billion now, is projected to be 2.5 billion at conservative estimates in 2050 and 4 billion in 2100.

Why in a thread about an arson attack against a centre set up to temporarily house Syrian refugees from Asia, are you now banging on about the population of Africa?

The tiny number of genuine refugees we take in are eventually relocated around the country. The ones who aren't genuine, aren't. If you have an issue with the language used to describe these people, then that's really up to you.

malinheader

dav3 wrote: »

Steady on lads, you're going all Gemma O'Doherty on us.



Why in a thread about an arson attack against a centre set up to temporarily house Syrian refugees from Asia, are you now banging on about the population of Africa?

The tiny number of genuine refugees we take in are eventually relocated around the country. The ones who aren't genuine, aren't. If you have an issue with the language used to describe these people, then that's really up to you.

The ones who are not genuine are not. Your some craic.

Kivaro

Zorya wrote: »

At some point in the future even the most bleeding heart liberal will realise that a halt would have to be called to massive economic migration in order to prevent the collapse of welfare states, and so by accepting economic migrants now, pretending they are refugees, we are causing a competition to get out and in under the barrier before it goes down.

This partially explains why claims for asylum in Ireland have reached a 10 year high (according to the Irish Times). And watch this space, as there will be a further substantial surge from the UK in the lead up and after Brexit. The Irish government seem to have an amnesty program in place for migrants/refugees who continue to use the legal process with appeal after appeal. It's just a system of attrition, with the government usually giving up on deportations and legal challenges; the irony is that refugees have access to unlimited Irish tax-paid resources in their challenges.

Another problem is that we have the 3rd largest party in the country still advocating for open orders for political and economic migrants from all over the world. Sinn Fein's official stance is still this:

Sinn Fein will work for the achievement of the optimal position of no restriction on immigration to Ireland and deplores all attempts to limit the numbers of political and economic refugees into the country.

It probably explains why Sinn Fein is continuing to decline in the polls recently, with a further 2% reduction in their support a few days ago. Their supporters must realise that the influx of economic migrants/refugees into Ireland will result in a competition for social welfare resources and housing.

GinAndBitter

Lovely behaviour from the refugee loving crowd here.

Facists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOM68dSD8Nc

Wibbs

GinAndBitter wrote: »

Lovely behaviour from the refugee loving crowd here.

Facists.

Whatever about them being "fascists"(a daftly overused word) or yer man with the camera, but good god the ones around him sounded like they were on day release from the local home for the incurably bewildered. Naive beyond belief at best, IQ's in double digits at worst, or a mixture of both. Yer wan going on about the Irish being Basques... Jesus. The other woman wittering on about balance and not knowing what it means and at the same time giving yer man stick and admitting she doesn't have a clue what he's said or not said. Scarily common that kinda thing on all sides. And that Ming idiot. The fact he gets votes should tell you all you need to know about the "intelligence" of those who put an X beside his name.

Wibbs

dav3 wrote: »

The tiny number of genuine refugees we take in are eventually relocated around the country. The ones who aren't genuine, aren't.

And yet currently we have as Kivaro pointed out earlier: Look at the most recent example that we can read about on The Times of Ireland today. The first female asylum seeker in Ireland, originally from Malawi, to run for election in this country, has been found out to be a liar on her asylum claims. Ellie Kisyombe, who is running for Dublin City council, also tried to claim asylum in England, before being transferred back to Ireland where she had a student visa. She claims that she went into Direct Provision as soon as she applied for asylum upon arriving at Dublin airport from Malawi in 2010. However, The Times found out that she was a student at Bristol University between 2007 and 2010. Then went home to Malawi, and then flew to Dublin to claim asylum. In 2011, she flew to England in order to claim asylum there.

Yup, looks real genuine and with a neck as hard as like a jockey's bollocks she has the gall to be running for public office after "extremely questionable" tactics to come here as a "refugee" and "asylum seeker". And her supporters have equally hard necks to keep defending her? Then again Irish politicians as crooked as a fiddlers elbow tend to be popular here, so on that basis she should fit right in.

Serious amount of criticism and anger in the tweets today about that article alright.

Has she denied it?

dav3

Wibbs wrote: »

Yup, looks real genuine and with a neck as hard as like a jockey's bollocks she has the gall to be running for public office after "extremely questionable" tactics to come here as a "refugee" and "asylum seeker". And her supporters have equally hard necks to keep defending her? Then again Irish politicians as crooked as a fiddlers elbow tend to be popular here, so on that basis she should fit right in.

What relevance does that story have to an arson attack on a direct provision hotel accommodating genuine refugees?

It looks to me like people are using this thread to have a rant about whatever is rattling around inside their head. Which is how these threads usually go.
The videos from friends of gemma o'doherty have already started. Next up we'll have someone talking about white genocide, eugenics and the IQ of African people.
When the thread finally gets locked, the same 4 or 5 people start crying about how they're being silenced.

Instead of looking at the history of refugees in Ireland over the decades, how successful it has been and discussing how it can be improved. We have the same crowd trying to spread fear and hate. Something which Irish people have always, and will always reject.

GinAndBitter

Wibbs wrote: »

Whatever about them being "fascists"(a daftly overused word) or yer man with the camera, but good god the ones around him sounded like they were on day release from the local home for the incurably bewildered. Naive beyond belief at best, IQ's in double digits at worst, or a mixture of both. Yer wan going on about the Irish being Basques... Jesus. The other woman wittering on about balance and not knowing what it means and at the same time giving yer man stick and admitting she doesn't have a clue what he's said or not said. Scarily common that kinda thing on all sides. And that Ming idiot. The fact he gets votes should tell you all you need to know about the "intelligence" of those who put an X beside his name.

One of the locals took exception with the Muppets from out of town.

https://m.facebook.com/109597305738451/posts/2300141016684058/

pumpkin4life

Everyone, watch this. All of it. This is an incredible bit of stuff.

Whatever you think about Grand Torino, the guy has fùcking balls.

How he didn't lose his temper is beyond me.

Kivaro

According to the RTE news this evening, only 40 showed up for this "anti-racist" event in Rooskey.

Does that mean that the 4,803,708 of us who didn't go are racist?
Or does it mean that there is really no issue with racism in the little village.
And fair play to the local woman who stood up for her community and voiced the fact on national television that adequate local services did not exist in the village for such a large number of asylum seekers. Shame on those in Government who are responsible for this major breach of trust with the local populace.

To nobody's surprise, RTE, once again, was complete disingenuous in their reporting. The reporter said that they were Ballaghaderreen direct provision asylum seekers from Syria and other countries at the protest. Why not mention the other countries? He made sure to mention the Syrians, as if they are the majority of the applicants for asylum in Ireland. They are not, Georgia was number one in 2018, followed by Albanian asylum seekers.

Zorya

GinAndBitter wrote: »

One of the locals took exception with the Muppets from out of town.

https://m.facebook.com/109597305738451/posts/2300141016684058/

Good woman. She was damn right. Pious professional protestors turning up in the NW or midlands to craw thump and tell the local people how they should be can go feck themselves.

BBFAN

GinAndBitter wrote: »

Lovely behaviour from the refugee loving crowd here.

Facists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOM68dSD8Nc

That dickhead with his big furry mike is no refugee lover, don't know what you're on about? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

He's a Gemma O'Doherty follower who thinks he's a professional film maker or something.

WinnyThePoo

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Everyone, watch this. All of it. This is an incredible bit of stuff.

Whatever you think about Grand Torino, the guy has fùcking balls.

How he didn't lose his temper is beyond me.

Now grand Torino. theres a snivveling little **** if I've ever seen one.