Poverty spec?

swarlb

There has been a lot of talk on here about 'poverty spec' and 'paddy spec' cars. So, in current climate, what exactly constitutes 'poverty' or 'paddy' spec.
If I think of poverty, I tend to associate it with having 'nothing'... so as an example a car with decent cloth upholstery as opposed to leather does not equate to 'poverty' if the model in question does not have a leather option available.
It should mean that one model comes with absolutely 'nothing', no radio, no Bluetooth, no central locking, doors that open using by sticking the key in the lock, rubber carpets, only one external mirror, no rear wipers etc etc..

Is there such a thing as a car with 'poverty' spec ?? And I don't mean picking some model that ceased production decades ago, or anecdotal stories about cars with wicker work chairs held in place by pop rivets.

Del2005

If a car does not come with a leather seat option its a poverty spec car.

swarlb

Del2005 wrote: »

If a car does not come with a leather seat option its a poverty spec car.

I completely disagree, as you could order a top of the range Tesla or Range Rover for example, and not order leather yet get every other option available. I'm talking about cars that come with NOTHING as standard, with no options available.
Personally, I don't think there is one.

hi5

A poverty spec car is the base model of a range that doesn't have any of the option boxes ticked.
What's provided as standard with the base model can vary from manufacture to manufacture.

mickdw

Get the cheapest dacia you can find and you should be pretty close.

No passenger sun visor

NIMAN

mickdw wrote: »

Get the cheapest dacia you can find and you should be pretty close.

Or high end Dacia;)

zilog_jones

Look at the cheapest rental cars. I was surprised to see keep-fit windows in the rear of a '18 Fiesta.

I doubt you could get something without central locking or no passenger side mirror these days.

MarcusP12

hi5 wrote: »

A poverty spec car is the base model of a range that doesn't have any of the option boxes ticked.
What's provided as standard with the base model can vary from manufacture to manufacture.

This is all you need to know above.....

I think its a term that's synonymous with premium German motors back in the day whereby there has been an obsession with simply having the badge rather than any of the extra comforts that come with them at a cost, i.e. they'd rather go entry level for not much more than say the top spec Mondeo or passat so that they can say I drive a beemer or merc for example.

It's why a lot of people go for UK imports as they tend to come with a lot of optional extras. For example I picked up a UK import 5 series MSport which came with reversing cameras, pro sat nav, HK stereo and adaptive dampers. You'd do well to pick up an irish car as well spec'ed. But then, you'd hardly call the standard spec MSport, "poverty spec" any more so its probably a bit of an outdated term.....

I personally think its a term that's no longer relevant in the spirit it was originally intended. Premium motors no longer carry the allure they used to and even so, base level specs are decent these days.

Maybe manufacturers have copped on to this with their trim levels. Seems to be much more variety these days with trim levels compared to years ago, especially with premium german cars. Maybe they realized through research that people were much more willing to pay a reasonable premium for a higher level of trim rather than pay for "extras" against the standard car, i.e. you know straight away what you're paying rather than going through a tick list of items and getting a shock when you see the bottom line figure. Just a theory......

swarlb

hi5 wrote: »

A poverty spec car is the base model of a range that doesn't have any of the option boxes ticked.
What's provided as standard with the base model can vary from manufacture to manufacture.

Some manufacturers have provided models that came with a myriad of 'standard' features, with options such a leather, or panoramic sunroof for example, as 'options'. So in essence the base model was far from poverty ridden.
What I'm trying to tease out here, is the quote often used that such and such is 'paddy spec' where in actual fact the cars in question are very well equipped, just not to the liking of the few.

NIMAN

It seems to be a fading concept?

More Irish cars are coming with a lot more standard equipment than they used to. Its probably to compete with UK imports etc.

kooga

I was looking at the new Peugeot Ritter - did a comparison with the uk spec Ritter initially all looked good same trims in the roi as uk but when I enquired about the gt line spec was told that the sunroof which is standard on the uk model is not standard here nor is it available as an option - even though I had the option code the dealer said it couldn’t be specced - no satisfactory explanation given

zilog_jones

Yeah, there are still a lot of cars that are worse spec here than their UK equivalents, probably because of the expense of VRT. Not to the same extent as in the past in that the baseline is higher, but there is still a gap.

fancy pigeon

MarcusP12 wrote: »

This is all you need to know above.....

I think its a term that's synonymous with premium German motors back in the day whereby there has been an obsession with simply having the badge rather than any of the extra comforts that come with them at a cost, i.e. they'd rather go entry level for not much more than say the top spec Mondeo or passat so that they can say I drive a beemer or merc for example.

I have a 95 C220 D. It has windy windows all round, orange indicators and steel wheels

I can't imagine a modern C class appearing with the same spec as my one!

Mitch Connor

swarlb wrote: »

I completely disagree, as you could order a top of the range Tesla or Range Rover for example, and not order leather yet get every other option available. I'm talking about cars that come with NOTHING as standard, with no options available.
Personally, I don't think there is one.

Then they come with a leather seat option, so do not fall into the poverty spec category the poster is talking about.

They said if there isn't the OPTION for leather seats - not that you simply don't select them.

MarcusP12

fancy pigeon wrote: »

I have a 95 C220 D. It has windy windows all round, orange indicators and steel wheels

I can't imagine a modern C class appearing with the same spec as my one!

I think it also to do with technology advancement....years ago all electric windows was considered a luxury but now it's standard pretty much all round...cruise control used to be rare enough but is standard for a lot of regular cars...even sat nav and parking sensors are become increasingly standard on a lot of cars even in standard spec....the term was conjured up when things we take for granted these days were quite expensive as extras....I don't think much has changed in terms of us buying extras compared to our uk counterparts but to term it poverty spec is no longer applicable I'd say.....

Eric Cartman

NIMAN wrote: »

It seems to be a fading concept?

More Irish cars are coming with a lot more standard equipment than they used to. Its probably to compete with UK imports etc.

Thats dealers doing it to stop them ending up with forecourts full of crap though, in the UK you can get a lower spec model in almost any car but so few people do that dealers will make it available.

Bog spec is any car at the lowest trim level with no options, there can also be some exceptions where the new buyer is particularly stingy , example - new seat ibiza, windy windows in the rear, getting them electric is 200 quid, why anyone wouldnt do this or any dealer wouldnt order their lot cars without it is beyond me.

Eric Cartman

kooga wrote: »

I was looking at the new Peugeot Ritter - did a comparison with the uk spec Ritter initially all looked good same trims in the roi as uk but when I enquired about the gt line spec was told that the sunroof which is standard on the uk model is not standard here nor is it available as an option - even though I had the option code the dealer said it couldn’t be specced - no satisfactory explanation given

This one is a funny one , vw ireland wont order you a cream interior on anything lesser than a mid spec golf, a lot of other companies offer cream interiors in other countries which are ‘not available’ in ireland, no idea why

Leonard Hofstadter

No a/c as standard in 2019 is just unforgivable. Surely everything has that and alloy wheels as well.

To be fair, most cars are very well equipped these days, even in Ireland, go back to say 2002 or 2003 and you'll find the likes of a Golf came with keep fit windows (all round), manual exterior mirror adjustment, hubcaps and no central locking as standard, that was Paddy spec.

Henry Ford III

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

No a/c as standard in 2019 is just unforgivable. Surely everything has that and alloy wheels as well.

To be fair, most cars are very well equipped these days, even in Ireland, go back to say 2002 or 2003 and you'll find the likes of a Golf came with keep fit windows (all round), manual exterior mirror adjustment, hubcaps and no central locking as standard, that was Paddy spec.

Agreed although the basic car drove just the same as the high spec. version.

MrMusician18

As with all things "poverty" can be relative and absolute. The most basic cars of old with few by of features, such as one sun visor, one wing mirror, and windy windows would be absolutely low spec. In modern terms this can extend to a car that is equipped poorly relative to expectations in it's class (such as windy rear windows).

Relatively low spec would be the base model of a particular car with no options installed.

You can therefore have poverty spec in any car, depending on your frame of reference.

mickdw

Lots of cars now fitted with steel wheels designed to fit behind an alloy look wheel trim so alloys are from a given.

ednwireland

looking for a used car and wont look at something that doesnt have alloy wheels, decent stereo (preferably some sort of mp3 playing) , bluetooth preferably sterring whheel controls, would like in seperate airccon controls for driver / passenger, amazing how many cars it rules out (2011-2013 cars).

Gazzmonkey

zilog_jones wrote: »

Yeah, there are still a lot of cars that are worse spec here than their UK equivalents, probably because of the expense of VRT. Not to the same extent as in the past in that the baseline is higher, but there is still a gap.

Bingo

You got it in one..

The UK spec cars don't have to absorb VRT cost so they have more bells & whistles.

Never bought a paddy spec, never will.

Toyotafanboi

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Bog spec is any car at the lowest trim level with no options, there can also be some exceptions where the new buyer is particularly stingy , example - new seat ibiza, windy windows in the rear, getting them electric is 200 quid, why anyone wouldnt do this or any dealer wouldnt order their lot cars without it is beyond me.

Because you're at the end of the market where people will leave a deal over €20, it'd be near suicide for a dealer to factory order a load of stock with a €200 accessory that would go un-noticed to most.

pa990

There is a demand for poverty spec cars amoung three groups of clients.

1. Those that just need a car, and need the cheapest possible motor possible , be it new or second hand.

2. Those that want to keep up with the Jone's

3. Company cars, ie Security patrol vans / Garda cars, where the company want something that will move personell from A to B at the least cost possible.

If there was no demand for these poverty spec vehicles, the manufacturers wouldn't supply them .
Just like a few years ago, petrol versions of various cars weren't available in this country because there was no demand for petrol, .. only diesel.

kooga

pa990 wrote: »

There is a demand for poverty spec cars amoung three groups of clients.

1. Those that just need a car, and need the cheapest possible motor possible , be it new or second hand.

2. Those that want to keep up with the Jone's

3. Company cars, ie Security patrol vans / Garda cars, where the company want something that will move personell from A to B at the least cost possible.

If there was no demand for these poverty spec vehicles, the manufacturers wouldn't supply them .
Just like a few years ago, petrol versions of various cars weren't available in this country because there was no demand for petrol, .. only diesel.

Agree for example Toyota GB offer the landcruiser in utility spec- steel wheels etc - id gladly take that over having to buy the commercial GX model here which is unnecessary hi spec

JoeA3

It's a very subjective term and it varies from one model to another... so, as an extreme example, a BMW 5 series with cloth seats and a manual gearbox would be a total no-no and positively sale-proof. Whereas a manual box and cloth seats are perfectly acceptable in a run of the mill hatchback.

I don't think "paddy spec" is as bad as it used to be. With BMW for example, the Irish specs are equivalent to UK spec here now. With VAG, the Irish cars tend to be better spec'd than UK as standard. This is the very opposite to how it used to be. Of course, the UK buyers do tend to opt for the larger more powerful engines in much greater numbers than we do, but a new Irish 520d is spec'd the same as a UK one.

Irish buyers are a bit more choosy these days I think and spec is important for certain cars (e.g. the BMW example above!).

Personally there's a few toys and creature comforts that I've come to expect in a car and I would not consider buying a car missing them (off the top of my head - xenons/LEDs, heated seats, decent audio with modern phone connectivity, decent wheels, climate control..)

biko

It's a old term meaning the UK got all the goodie trim levels but Paddy was too cheap to get anything but the bare minimum so dealers only got base level diesels for the Irish market.

MetzgerMeister

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This one is a funny one , vw ireland wont order you a cream interior on anything lesser than a mid spec golf, a lot of other companies offer cream interiors in other countries which are ‘not available’ in ireland, no idea why

It's because of the filth of us all shur. A cream leather interior would be black in a matter of days after Paddy hopping from the tractor into the Golf to go to mass :pac:

My opinion of Paddy spec is the cheapest model of a car available, mainly the likes of a 3 series that has absolutely no options at all. Generally purchased by those wanting the badge.

swarlb

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

It's because of the filth of us all shur. A cream leather interior would be black in a matter of days after Paddy hopping from the tractor into the Golf to go to mass :pac:

My opinion of Paddy spec is the cheapest model of a car available, mainly the likes of a 3 series that has absolutely no options at all. Generally purchased by those wanting the badge.

I love the self depreciating nature of some of these posts, we Irish certainly have a very low opinion of ourselves at times.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

swarlb wrote: »

I love the self depreciating nature of some of these posts, we Irish certainly have a very low opinion of ourselves at times.

the self depreciation is humble-bragging, we all feckin love ourselves

corks finest

hi5 wrote: »

A poverty spec car is the base model of a range that doesn't have any of the option boxes ticked.
What's provided as standard with the base model can vary from manufacture to manufacture.

Correct

Eoinbmw

Remember back in the day you could have unpainted black bumpers, steel wheels with no hubcaps, unpainted mirrors and door handles etc etc thats poverty spec or a Dacia!

Duke O Smiley

zilog_jones wrote: »

Look at the cheapest rental cars. I was surprised to see keep-fit windows in the rear of a '18 Fiesta.

I doubt you could get something without central locking or no passenger side mirror these days.

Base model new Fabia comes with keep fit windows in the front!

kirving

I think some of the issue lately too is that manufacturers tend to bundle option packs together.

For example, I just looked at the new E-Class price list. I'm on my phone and can't find a full model configurator, but from the PDF...

In order to get memory seats, you need to spec the full Premium Package for €6,259.

This of course makes full sense from the OEM's point of view, simplifies manufacturing as they'll just put in one of three wiring looms, into the car as opposed to mixing and matching what would end up being millions of combinations.

Just that it then makes it difficult for most to justify 6k for Memory Seats if they don't care about all the additional stuff you get with the Premium Pack (Online connection, Adaptive Lights, 360 camera, etc.)

elperello

"Poverty spec" as a description is just a nonsense in new cars because anyone buying any model of new car could not be considered poor.

"Paddy spec" this can raise hackles among people who have experienced racism against Irish people abroad. It's OK to be ironic about being called "Paddy" if you have never had your nationality used against you.

swarlb

elperello wrote: »

"Poverty spec" as a description is just a nonsense in new cars because anyone buying any model of new car could not be considered poor.

"Paddy spec" this can raise hackles among people who have experienced racism against Irish people abroad. It's OK to be ironic about being called "Paddy" if you have never had your nationality used against you.

Finally, the response I was looking for !

JoeA3

Kevin Irving wrote: »

I think some of the issue lately too is that manufacturers tend to bundle option packs together.

For example, I just looked at the new E-Class price list. I'm on my phone and can't find a full model configurator, but from the PDF...

In order to get memory seats, you need to spec the full Premium Package for €6,259.

This of course makes full sense from the OEM's point of view, simplifies manufacturing as they'll just put in one of three wiring looms, into the car as opposed to mixing and matching what would end up being millions of combinations.

Just that it then makes it difficult for most to justify 6k for Memory Seats if they don't care about all the additional stuff you get with the Premium Pack (Online connection, Adaptive Lights, 360 camera, etc.)

I think they've started doing this in the last year or two especially, to simplify the options list. One of the reasons VAG got themselves in the sh1t over WLTP was the sheer number of options and configurations in their model line up. Every configuration had to be tested/graded.
So I'd say we'll see even more of this from now on... you want a reversing camera? Well then you have to spec the 2K "tech pack".

dingding

Remember a few years ago I was interested in buying a new ford. They had advertised the base model of about 22K. Went into the dealer and the cheapest one they could give me was 26K.

I think with the advent of PCP people have gone for more higher spec cars as the monthly extra amount for an extra is small enough.

We have come on a bit since the 70's and 80's. If you want a poverty spec look at a Austin mini 850 from the 70's, or indeed any british leyland car.

milhous

I always thought that poverty spec was just the base model of any given car (regardless of whether its a BMW or a dacia)

I always thought that "paddy spec"was because compared to the UK the spec of cars here were pretty ****. I'm not sure if that's because bigger competition in the UK lead to car manufacturers giving add ons for free or their standard cars just came with a higher spec.
or because finance, especially pcp has been there for a while and people specced up for relatively cheap,
Or if it's because the import duties here make it considerably more expensive to spec up.

"Paddy spec" ternminology isn't very nice imo

anewme

JoeA3 wrote: »

I think they've started doing this in the last year or two especially, to simplify the options list. One of the reasons VAG got themselves in the sh1t over WLTP was the sheer number of options and configurations in their model line up. Every configuration had to be tested/graded.
So I'd say we'll see even more of this from now on... you want a reversing camera? Well then you have to spec the 2K "tech pack".

Options will just be limited or bundled

punisher5112

I couldn't believe my eyes when I was behind a duster with working brake lights and it was a 191 with led 3rd brake.

For Forks Sake

Duke O Smiley wrote: »

Base model new Fabia comes with keep fit windows in the front!

That thing screams rental car.

Outkast_IRE

Only time I have heard the term paddy spec used is in relation to Toyota's of 10 years ago when the Irish base spec had hubcaps , no extras whatsoever , whereas the lowest UK base model had alloys as standard and a small few bits of kit .

I thought it became a common term because the Toyota factory at the time would do a batch of cars destined for Ireland with no extras and the workers called them paddy spec as they were sold nowhere else as basic.

Cookie_Monster

Duke O Smiley wrote: »

Base model new Fabia comes with keep fit windows in the front!

and a povo spec centre console. I've never seen a new skoda without at least the below spec before!

elperello

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Only time I have heard the term paddy spec used is in relation to Toyota's of 10 years ago when the Irish base spec had hubcaps , no extras whatsoever , whereas the lowest UK base model had alloys as standard and a small few bits of kit .

I thought it became a common term because the Toyota factory at the time would do a batch of cars destined for Ireland with no extras and the workers called them paddy spec as they were sold nowhere else as basic.

If you had a 10 year old Yaris with kerbed and peeling alloys you might wish for steel wheels. Stick on a cheap set of wheel covers and bobs your uncle.

As for "keep fit" window winders.When with sinking heart you are on your hands and knees trying to remove a door card you will wish the original buyer hadn't specified electric windows.

blackbox

The poverty spec was historically driven by the VRT.

Any option you specified, VRT (I think it was around 30%) was added to the cost; so for example, an extra that cost 1000 in the UK, cost 1300 or more here. If it was something that you could purchase and fit aftermarket you didn't have to pay the VRT.

It made the extras harder to justify.

kirving

And while we're on the subject, it's beyond disgraceful that safety equipment such as camera systems, radar, blindspot assist, HUD, etc, are subject to VAT and VRT.

Pushing it, I'd even go as far to say tyres that score A for wet braking should be VAT exempt.

Twenty Grand

No alloys.

Jesus, how can they still sell cars with steel wheels.

Brian Scan

Twenty Grand wrote: »

No alloys.

Jesus, how can they still sell cars with steel wheels.

Because people want to buy them.