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Stopped for going through an amber light.

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2

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    #32
    kirving
    Registered Users Posts: 5,984 ✭✭✭kirving


    laotg wrote: »
    A random lad you met outside court tells you his brother is a guard and that he's gonna get off on whatever the summons was.

    Sure....

    C'mon, no need to be so subtle. Just straight up call me a liar if you must.

    I've been on this site for nearly 15 years, give plenty of detail about the situation, and went to the effort to post it.

    How sad do you think I am that I'd make up such a specific detail? It was the early Jan 2012. I can give you the name of the Garda too if you have the means to look it up.


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    #33
    williestroker1
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭williestroker1


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Is there a cycling equivalent of driving without due care? You should be aware of your surroundings and not being aware of what's behind is not a safe way to travel.
    On a bike? Even if I had eyes in the back of my head they would be covered by my helmet.


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    #34
    dhaughton99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭dhaughton99


    Just back from a city cycle and a Garda community policing van went through a set of pedestrians reds with people about to cross on lord Edward st and parked up outside Dublin castle. Didn’t have the blues and twos on.


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    #35
    dhaughton99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭dhaughton99


    dhaughton99 wrote: »
    Just back from a city cycle and a Garda community policing van went through a set of pedestrians reds with people about to cross on lord Edward st and parked up outside Dublin castle. Didn’t have the blues and twos on.

    Also seen a bicycle sticking out from under the wheels of a 40ft truck along the canal. Hope they are ok.


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    #36
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    rushfan wrote: »
    Tbh, telling you that a fine will follow might also have been an attempt to get you to admit to doing something that you haven't done. I wouldn't worry about it until a fine comes in the post.

    Or an attempt to just get you to worry about it, acting as a punishment itself, and less paper work to complete.


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    #37
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    dhaughton99 wrote: »
    Christ, never a garda there when FX Buckly park their van at the blind turn and in the bike lane.

    It's not just FX Buckley. I pass that junction a lot in the morning and the bike lane is blocked 52% of the time. But the taxi rank just ahead pushes into the cycle lane 72% of the time.


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    #38
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,498 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    2 meters, you're a bicycle not a car.

    You need to stop on an Amber because you're traveling much slower than a car so could be in the middle of the junction by the time the other side goes green.


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    #39
    dhaughton99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭dhaughton99


    Effects wrote: »
    It's not just FX Buckley. I pass that junction a lot in the morning and the bike lane is blocked 52% of the time. But the taxi rank just ahead pushes into the cycle lane 72% of the time.

    Same here. I always spit on their mirror.


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    #40
    DirkVoodoo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,504 ✭✭✭✭DirkVoodoo


    Gardai on N11 this morning, stopping cars driving down the bus lane.

    Well, not really. I could see one car had been stopped, but a second Garda was just standing further down the bus lane forcing all the cars back out.

    I can understand that issuing fines to everyone would be laborious for them, but where is the consistency? These drivers were willfully breaking the law and undertaking traffic in a bus lane, only to be pushed back into traffic with a little wave.

    No consistency.

    Also, re the above about "not knowing if a bike is behind you being cycling without due care"...get real!


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    #41
    MojoMaker
    Registered Users Posts: 4,687 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Let's be honest OP, the colour of the light was irrelevant to you :pac:


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    #42
    Ray Bloody Purchase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Ray Bloody Purchase


    Effects wrote: »
    It's not just FX Buckley. I pass that junction a lot in the morning and the bike lane is blocked 52% of the time. But the taxi rank just ahead pushes into the cycle lane 72% of the time.

    The taxi drivers have a tendency to pull out without looking there. There's always people doing U-turns at that junction too.

    There's always vans parked in the lane in the morning going in the opposite direction too.


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    #43
    RebelButtMunch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,383 ✭✭✭RebelButtMunch


    I'm always bemused when someone starts a thread on getting caught going through lights. It's not like they regularly and predictably change every minute 24 hours a day or anything.....


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    #44
    DavyD_83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭DavyD_83


    I doubt the fine will ever arrive.
    I've been stopped and told a fine is on the way a few times over the years, but never received a single one.
    Have never seen any real stats, but have always gotten impression that not many cycling violations are actually fillowed through on.
    Only ticket I've ever been actually issued was for speeding while driving.


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    #45
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,927 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    BrokenArrows wrote: »
    2 meters, you're a bicycle not a car.

    You need to stop on an Amber because you're traveling much slower than a car so could be in the middle of the junction by the time the other side goes green.

    You should stop on Amber if it is safe to do so, this is irregardless of being a cyclist or a motorist. There are several slower road users who could be in the middle of a junction who entered legally on green but it turned red before they completed it, the opposing traffic have to expect and anticipate that. Green is not permission to go, it is right of way but if another vehicle is still passing through, they have right of way.


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    #46
    GampDub
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭GampDub


    OP by the sounds of it you were spot on!

    Did similar in a car a number of years ago - ended up in court and was ready to plead my case. Judge didnt even let it get that far, threw it out immediately and advised the Guard that driving through an amber light was not an offence.

    If it was not safe to do what you did but by the sounds of it there was no risk to what you did.


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    #47
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    williestroker1 wrote: »
    On a bike? Even if I had eyes in the back of my head they would be covered by my helmet.

    Yes on a bike. I ride a motorbike and have these excellent things called mirrors which allow me to see behind even with a full face helmet. Though I still use the live safer when changing lanes.


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    #48
    williestroker1
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭williestroker1


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Yes on a bike. I ride a motorbike and have these excellent things called mirrors which allow me to see behind even with a full face helmet. Though I still use the live safer when changing lanes.
    I've have yet to come across a bicycle mirror that was any good. A motorbikes handlebars are wider, on a bicycle your arm/body blocks any reliable view. Also a on bicycle mirrors vibrate making them next to useless.
    You will not see a bicycle directly behind you with a lifesaver glance.


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    #49
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,990 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    williestroker1 wrote: »
    I've have yet to come across a bicycle mirror that was any good. A motorbikes handlebars are wider, on a bicycle your arm/body blocks any reliable view. Also a on bicycle mirrors vibrate making them next to useless.
    You will not see a bicycle directly behind you with a lifesaver glance.

    I had to buy extensions for my mirrors so that I could see more than my elbows. Even with a bad mirror you'll see something behind. Or just buy one for the helmet.


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    #50
    williestroker1
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭williestroker1


    Del2005 wrote: »
    I had to buy extensions for my mirrors so that I could see more than my elbows. Even with a bad mirror you'll see something behind. Or just buy one for the helmet.
    I have tried both. The extensions make the mirror vibrate worse. The helmet ones are just as bad. Great if your on smooth concrete, but I'm sure you know our roads a far from smooth rendering them next to useless. Your bike is heavier than a bicycle with shock absorber's.


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    #51
    ShiverinEskimo
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 18,115 ✭✭✭✭ShiverinEskimo


    williestroker1 wrote: »
    BTW it was a pedestrian light with on one waiting to cross.
    We really are easy targets.
    williestroker1 wrote: »
    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.343656,-6.2699299,3a,75y,208.27h,88.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKPCkRIuL_OZvaFNfKTtTbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

    This is the junction. I was at the white line, front of the beige car when the light turned amber. Garda car waiting to turn right, where the bus is. Dont think I would have time to shoulder check and stop before going through junction.

    That is not just a pedestrian light. That is a traffic light controlled junction incorporating a pedestrian crossing. Could there be anything else you're not remembering correctly? The guard will have his notebook in court with exact details as he saw them from a stationary patrol car. Did you see the patrol car? Anything else you failed to observe? Will you be able to reliably describe the situation in 6 to 8 months time in court given you couldn't even remember the type of junction just a short time after the incident?
    GampDub wrote: »
    Did similar in a car a number of years ago - ended up in court and was ready to plead my case. Judge didnt even let it get that far, threw it out immediately and advised the Guard that driving through an amber light was not an offence.

    The judge was completely incorrect in this case and it is definitely not a precedent.


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    #52
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    ShiverinEskimo wrote: »
    The judge was completely incorrect in this case and it is definitely not a precedent.

    DC isnt even allowed to set precedent anyways.


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    #53
    tampopo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭tampopo


    Fian wrote: »
    Unlikely that the Garda will show up for this, likely (but ofc not certain) that it will just be struck out for non-appearance by the Garda. You will lose a morning though, even if the Garda doesn't show up, and you will not get "your day in court". Also since it is such a minor offence it is likely that the judge will not take a huge interest in the case and that it will be dealt with swiftly. Even if the garda does arrive he might just apply for a strike out before the case begins.

    If it does run and you are convicted after contesting it (and you might well be convicted if the garda gives evidence that you had time to stop and should have stopped) the penalty will be more than the €40 fixed penalty notice. You would be naive to go to court thinking that you won't be convicted if you are innocent, it would not be at all surprising if the version of events given by the garda under oath is significantly different from the version you have given here.
    Not trying to encourage you to plead / accept the FPN, just suggesting you consider the practical realities.

    It could be that there are 20-30 similar cases at the same time.That's been my experience. Especially after the effort the Guard made in being so picky
    I agree that the Guard's testimony/version of events will be significantly different to yours. Of course it will be.Stands to reason. Pay for a solicitor or the fine. Your choice.


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    #54
    ShiverinEskimo
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 18,115 ✭✭✭✭ShiverinEskimo


    ED E wrote: »
    DC isnt even allowed to set precedent anyways.

    I wasn't even going as deep as legal precedent - more so procedural. One anecdote about a judge being wrong and dismissing a case years ago shouldn't be used to make the decision to fight a ticket in court in future.


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    #55
    Duffryman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭Duffryman


    What I don't understand if it was 'just' an amber light, and the Guard never suggested anything other than it was amber, then what exactly is he going to fine you for?

    Proceeding through an amber light is not illegal in itself, so it can't be for that.

    There's no suggestion that the light was red, so it can't be a fine for that either.

    Maybe cycling without reasonable consideration? That's a pretty open-ended one, and I'm not sure how it's normally applied. But overall, I wouldn't be surprised if no fine ever arrives, and that he was basically just giving you a talking to instead.

    By the way, were you going straight through, or intending to turn right? Going straight through would be even less of an 'offence' in my book, particularly if you were slipping into the cycle lane up ahead. On the other hand, if you were turning right, there might have been some concern that you might not have made it all the way through the junction before lights went green for traffic coming from another direction. Still don't see how he could fine you for going through an amber light, though....


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    #56
    williestroker1
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭williestroker1


    I was following the road around to the left.
    Something obvious has just been pointed out to me by someone who deals with these issues. How did Guard know I hadn't crossed the white stop line before the light went amber, as in the goggle maps linked. From his vantage view he could not have seen me until I was already at least 2 meters over it even if he had a perfect view which he couldn't have at that time of the day.
    If I had already cross the stop line I had every right to continue.
    He had no right to stop me in the first place.


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    #57
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    williestroker1 wrote: »
    I was following the road around to the left.
    Something obvious has just been pointed out to me by someone who deals with these issues. How did Guard know I hadn't crossed the white stop line before the light went amber, as in the goggle maps linked. From his vantage view he could not have seen me until I was already at least 2 meters over it even if he had a perfect view which he couldn't have at that time of the day.
    If I had already cross the stop line I had every right to continue.
    He had no right to stop me in the first place.

    williestroker1 wrote: »
    ..........

    He had no right to stop me in the first place.

    There are a very few individuals out there who distribute drugs while on a bicycle

    A tell-tale sign is someone in a fierce hurry for no reason.

    He has a right to stop you


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    #58
    williestroker1
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭williestroker1


    gctest50 wrote: »
    There are a very few individuals out there who distribute drugs while on a bicycle

    A tell-tale sign is someone in a fierce hurry for no reason.

    He has a right to stop you
    LOL. I'm El Chapo now.:D


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    #59
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,586 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    gctest50 wrote: »
    There are a very few individuals out there who distribute drugs while on a bicycle

    A tell-tale sign is someone in a fierce hurry for no reason.

    He has a right to stop you
    next time i'm stopped for running an amber, and am subjected to a cavity search, i'll now know why.


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    #60
    williestroker1
    Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭williestroker1


    Whatever you do don't ever go for a run in a gray tracksuit. You'll end up in the special criminal court.


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    #61
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,381 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    williestroker1 wrote: »
    BTW it was a pedestrian light with on one waiting to cross.
    .
    amcalester wrote: »
    Even if you tried to stop you'd have ended up in the pedestrian crossing.
    no worries there, by the sounds of it the the illegal jaywalker had fleed the scene! probably seen by the garda who likely did not bat an eyelid at that offence, just as most do not. Though some seem to think it was not a pedestrian only crossing.
    williestroker1 wrote: »
    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.343656,-6.2699299,3a,75y,208.27h,88.78t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKPCkRIuL_OZvaFNfKTtTbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192.
    scroll a tiny bit to the left and we can see somebody illegally crossing the road on a red, amputate his legs!! take his driving licence if he has one! The other day I spotted the google van breaking an amber and someone else noted it was going through a green pedestrian light in the same instance.

    I just wish the gardai focused on what the laws actual set out to prevent happening, IME most thankfully do.


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