Is it stupid to buy a petrol/diesel car in 2019?

Cilar

With electric cars improving every years, and starting to reach mass market demands with reasonable range (Kona, Kia Niro, Leaf 60kwh, Zoe 55kwh etc), are the pure petrol/diesel cars currently selling new going to depreciate way faster than in the past?

At that rate, petrol/diesel cars are going to be like smoking in an elevator in 4 to 5 years time, or like travelling in a coal steam train vs an electric train.

Second hand electric cars are even increasing in value in the past year or so.

Any thoughts?

mengele

Well I will be very slow to make the switch to electric. The simple task of just filling it with petrol or diesel every two weeks suits me far better than having to charging it every day.

BorneTobyWilde

New i'd go for electric all the way.

w211

Electric car is for you if you drive only 10 minutes every single morning and evening. It is great for short distances. Petrol and diesel needs much longer driving distances. Honestly the electric cars does not have a place for mass production. We do not have so much lithium. The hydrogen or hydrogen cell have the real future. Hydrogen are good because any petrol car is possible to modify for hydrogen ready. Hydrogen cell can be the future "electric car". So do not pollute the earth by lithium battery cars.

Arthur Daley

Electric has been pushed repeatedly by media etc over the last 2/3 years. Yet it still only makes up circa 1% of the market. You wouldn't think that for the noise generated.

It is also somewhat debatable as to how green they really are. Especially where govt policy leads to the scrapping of servicable cars, so the owner can get a brand new electric.

Tuco88

Let all the sheep jump on board first, and buy the current available electric cars. While you buy all there top spec Petrol/Diesel cars for half nothing.

Give it 8-10 Years for me. By then surly we will have massive gains in the tec then.

Sales/Media will tell you what the buy, panic and guilt you into it. Don't fall for it.

bazz26

Cilar wrote: »

With electric cars improving every years, and starting to reach mass market demands with reasonable range (Kona, Kia Niro, Leaf 60kwh, Zoe 55kwh etc), are the pure petrol/diesel cars currently selling new going to depreciate way faster than in the past?

At that rate, petrol/diesel cars are going to be like smoking in an elevator in 4 to 5 years time, or like travelling in a coal steam train vs an electric train.

Second hand electric cars are even increasing in value in the past year or so.

Any thoughts?

Well as long as EVs like the small Hyundai Kona continue to cost a ridiculous amount (38k after the grants that aren't sustainable long term) and stay out of reach of joe public who hasn't or work for a company that can benefit from 0% BIK then I don't think so.

Of course some will tell you that spending 38k on an electric Kona is well worth it when only spending €2 on electricity to charge it every week. Seems very familiar to 2008 when people justified buying diesel cars to just drive around town because they saved a few hundred euro a year on motor tax.

Time will tell I guess but I won't be rushing out buying one anyway.

beauf

Would you buy petrol or diesel now?

I'd say most would still buy diesel for the same reason. Tax and fuel savings

biko

When I hear the fellas down the pub mentioning an electric car as option next buy I will believe it.

_Brian

No, it is stupid to buy a vehicle that doesn’t suit your needs though, be that electric, petrol or diesel.

If people really looked at their driving and bought the correct vehicle then we would still see diesels, but only being driven by people who have no other practal option available (at the moment)

drunkmonkey

99% of people buying a car this year so far said no. Give me diesel.or Petrol and lumps of coal to throw at EV's

demanufactured

Long way off yet.
I do 120 - 150 miles per day.
I also tow boats, trailers etc.

Once they make a ford mondeo estate electric that can do all of the above and go a decent distance on a single charge, and come at a realistic price, I'll buy one.

redcup342

w211 wrote: »

Electric car is for you if you drive only 10 minutes every single morning and evening. It is great for short distances. Petrol and diesel needs much longer driving distances. Honestly the electric cars does not have a place for mass production. We do not have so much lithium. The hydrogen or hydrogen cell have the real future. Hydrogen are good because any petrol car is possible to modify for hydrogen ready. Hydrogen cell can be the future "electric car". So do not pollute the earth by lithium battery cars.

I have a mate started doing a 250 km round trip daily in his Kona, car has a 400 km range.

Fills in 45 minutes at a 100kw Charger, but he rarely uses a rapid charger anyway, only use case would be going from Amsterdam to Berlin or something, drive for 3 1/2 hours, stop plug in and go for a bite to eat then come back and carry on.

He has a Zappy Charger at home so he plugs in the car when he is at home to keep it topped up, plus it's nice and warm in the morning when he gets into it.

Also his work has free charging so he can plug in there as well (No BIK Charge in Germany for charging in Work)

Doesn't need to bother with petrol stations and doesn't need to mess around with changing oil and so on.

Is fuel bill is reduced by around 2800/3000 euros per year, maintenance costs are very low as there is no oil / filter etc to change, just need to to the brakes, fluid and tyres.

So yep I'd go Electric, looking at buying one now.

In Ireland I wouldn't consider it unless I could charge at home.

flazio

I think it depends on where in the country you are. West of the Shannon I think the charging infrastructure still has some way to go.

ShadowHearth

bazz26 wrote: »

Well as long as EVs like the small Hyundai Kona continue to cost a ridiculous amount (38k after the grants that aren't sustainable long term) and stay out of reach of joe public who hasn't or work for a company that can benefit from 0% BIK then I don't think so.

Of course some will tell you that spending 38k on an electric Kona is well worth it when only spending €2 on electricity to charge it every week. Seems very familiar to 2008 when people justified buying diesel cars to just drive around town because they saved a few hundred euro a year on motor tax.

Time will tell I guess but I won't be rushing out buying one anyway.

Thats the thing. People talk only about increase in battery, but not about the price tag. 38k Kona is for smaller battery, the bigger one is 50k? ( At least what I can see on done deal ). From economy point of view you need to do some stupid millage to make savings on EV considering you can buy normal petrol Kona for less then 25k in very nice spec!
There are a lot of people like me who can not afford even 38k price tag on car. Even then I would not spent it on small Korean crossover!!!

Right now it's a dooms day preaching going on, but EV is not even near the level it needs to be to replace ICE cars. For the next 10 years I am not afraid to pick up new petrol or diesel car. Those are not going anywhere yet! By the the time 10 years come, any car will be worth **** all. Even EV. That's not even mentioning that average new car buyer will change his car way before 10 years mark!

redcup342

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Thats the thing. People talk only about increase in battery, but not about the price tag. 38k Kona is for smaller battery, the bigger one is 50k? ( At least what I can see on done deal ). From economy point of view you need to do some stupid millage to make savings on EV considering you can buy normal petrol Kona for less then 25k in very nice spec!
There are a lot of people like me who can not afford even 38k price tag on car. Even then I would not spent it on small Korean crossover!!!

Right now it's a dooms day preaching going on, but EV is not even near the level it needs to be to replace ICE cars. For the next 10 years I am not afraid to pick up new petrol or diesel car. Those are not going anywhere yet! By the the time 10 years come, any car will be worth **** all. Even EV. That's not even mentioning that average new car buyer will change his car way before 10 years mark!

https://www.mydealz.de/deals/kia-e-niro-edition-7-elektro-suv-mit-64kwh-455km-reichweite-wltp-ca-4-5-monate-lieferzeit-1315493

E-Niro with 64-kWh (bigger) battery is around 30k over here with Government Subsidy of 2k

Many people don't even need the bigger battery

As fuel prices are increasing many people are saving between 2 and 3k / year.
No tax for 10 years guaranteed in Germany as well.

Saving of at least 30k (the cost of the car) over 10 years is indeed possible.

Couple that with Parking your EV in Germany is free in many cities

CorkMan_

I never thought about it until demanufactured mentioned it. What would an electric car be like for towing? Surely it'd reduced the range available by quite a bit?

Only thing I'd get an electric car for is if I had a short commute to work. I go to England a lot and can only see hassle doing that with an electric car.

_Brian

demanufactured wrote: »

Long way off yet.
I do 120 - 150 miles per day.
I also tow boats, trailers etc.

Once they make a ford mondeo estate electric that can do all of the above and go a decent distance on a single charge, and come at a realistic price, I'll buy one.

Similar profile here, will be diesel for quite a while.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Cilar wrote: »

With electric cars improving every years, and starting to reach mass market demands with reasonable range (Kona, Kia Niro, Leaf 60kwh, Zoe 55kwh etc), are the pure petrol/diesel cars currently selling new going to depreciate way faster than in the past?

At that rate, petrol/diesel cars are going to be like smoking in an elevator in 4 to 5 years time, or like travelling in a coal steam train vs an electric train.

Second hand electric cars are even increasing in value in the past year or so.

Any thoughts?

Electric cars are no where even reasonably close to reaching mass market demands and wont be for a very long time, at least in this country. The lack of charging points or any other incentives by the current government is the greatest block to any sort of push towards EV's.

Until EVs can mimic petrol/diesel cars in refuelling terms then I wont touch them. I would consider a hybrid as my next car but i'm at least 10 years away from even considering an EV.

meeeeh

I like the idea of electric car however at the moment it doesn't suit me. Car I'm driving doubles up as a family car and I like to be able to do long distances without worrying about recharging and I want to travel in comfort. Most of electric cars that you can get for reasonable money are too small and in some cases also incredibly ugly. How could someone spend tens of thousands of euro on something as ugly as Nissan Leaf is beyond me.

That being said I bought used car because I didn't see the value of buying new in petrol or diesel.

1874

beauf wrote: »

Would you buy petrol or diesel now?
I'd say most would still buy diesel for the same reason. Tax and fuel savings

I recently thought not, but it depends on your usage, if you do a reasonable amount of mileage then even new now buying new might be a good/acceptable idea in an ICE diesel. I kinda got caught up in the idea of EV myself, but I realised as much as Id like to be greener (I think it is as its more efficient to produce electrical energy and no harmful emissions at the tailpipe opposed to a diesel/petrol engined vehicle), while it could suit my low mileage, the return/payback would still take a long time, it'd be better if I was doing high mileage near the maximum range of an EV under the worst (coldest) conditions.
Looking at the queues of traffic near me, Ive seen one or two EVs a few times, so the impact they make is significantly offset by the fact that most people cant afford to change for what it costs and drive vehicles with internal combustion engines, have suitable vehicles already anyway, there wouldnt be enough vehicles to meet the full demand for everyone to have an EV. Where I consider it may be questionably green is on the manufacturing side.
Where it might be attempted to influence by Governments is taxation, I dont think it should be a penalty system but I think its on the way, it will be stated as a green policy (Like Diesels were) but in reality it will be a keep the money train moving policy, ie in the case of diesels, they encouraged people to spend money on newer vehicles and incentivised that by making the motor tax cheaper, so people who could afford upgraded, many did not suit having a diesel.
Really for being/getting greener, mass transportation needs to be heavily invested in (more and better quality bus and rail services to meet the demand from commuter towns), so public/private mass transportation should be maximised, with maximise use of electric (overhead) or even generated on trains/other vehicles themselves themselves (Ive read recently there are Hydrogen powered trains in Germany and the UK and CNG buses), that will get more people greener quicker than getting everyone into EV (cars).
My biggest concern was how small the Kona was when I saw it, it looked smaller than a Nissan Juke. From what I saw online, I thought it was bigger, maybe not as big as a Tuscon but bigger than it actually is. I believe the Kia Niro is bigger, but not by much, any would do me for my mileage, but not as cost effective as if I was doing more, that said a diesel or petrol would be cheaper and probably come in at the same cost overall even with fuel, and not mean I have to pay all/mostly upfront for an EV, guess I'll be waiting till they get better or cheaper.

biko wrote: »

When I hear the fellas down the pub mentioning an electric car as option next buy I will believe it.

Saw some ridiculous ad, with a guy at some kind of farmers auction/mart for livestock (not that I know anything about that), seemed a bit unlikely for farmers usage.

flazio wrote: »

I think it depends on where in the country you are. West of the Shannon I think the charging infrastructure still has some way to go.

I got the impression that the charging infrastructure is poor everywhere, no doubt it will be worse the less densely populated and more spread out the population is, still no reason for every small town to have chargers, but people who have an EV should have their own surely?

redcup342

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Electric cars are no where even reasonably close to reaching mass market demands and wont be for a very long time, at least in this country. The lack of charging points or any other incentives by the current government is the greatest block to any sort of push towards EV's.

Until EVs can mimic petrol/diesel cars in refuelling terms then I wont touch them. I would consider a hybrid as my next car but i'm at least 10 years away from even considering an EV.

They'll never mimic the fueling of petrol/diesel cars since there is no need to as the infrastructure already exists to fuel it at your home.

Why would you drive to a place to hang around and fuel your car when you can plug it in like your phone and go to bed.

ShadowHearth

redcup342 wrote: »

https://www.mydealz.de/deals/kia-e-niro-edition-7-elektro-suv-mit-64kwh-455km-reichweite-wltp-ca-4-5-monate-lieferzeit-1315493

E-Niro with 64-kWh (bigger) battery is around 30k over here with Government Subsidy of 2k

Many people don't even need the bigger battery

As fuel prices are increasing many people are saving between 2 and 3k / year.
No tax for 10 years guaranteed in Germany as well.

Saving of at least 30k (the cost of the car) over 10 years is indeed possible.

Couple that with Parking your EV in Germany is free in many cities

All nice and reasonable in Germany, but we are in Ireland right now, and prices differ a lot.
Right now charging at the public points is free, but ESB already talking about charging ( no pun intended ) people.
Don't understand me wrong, EV could be great and it will be eventually. At some point I will switch too,but right now, I won't be a paying beta tester for it. Technology, price, infrastructure is not here yet.
I love hot hatches and I can't wait when manufacturers will try to do hybrid type cars for speed and not economy for average Joe's.

Stallingrad

I would never buy another diesel, but at 20,000km a year I don't need to. EV are either ugly, undesirable, cheap and nasty inside or too expensive, when they make on that appeals I would 100% consider moving away from petrol.

Cee-Jay-Cee

redcup342 wrote: »

They'll never mimic the fueling of petrol/diesel cars since there is no need to as the infrastructure already exists to fuel it at your home.

Why would you drive to a place to hang around and fuel your car when you can plug it in like your phone and go to bed.

Because I use my car on several long trips every year for both work and social purposes. I don't want to have to book hotels and accommodation and also have to take into account whether they have charging points.

Not every one uses their car solely to go to work each day. Not everyone lives in cities where EVs may be more suitable and not everyone can make do with a pokey little hatchback when they have families to ferry about.

EV's are at least 2 decades away from mass use/appeal in this country and given the glacial speed in which change in this country happens, its probably closer to 30 years before EV's become the norm (and hopefully in that time, hybrid technology and/or hydrogen powered vehicles will have improved sufficiently enough to ensure I never have the displeasure of owning or driving an EV)

redcup342

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Because I use my car on several long trips every year for both work and social purposes. I don't want to have to book hotels and accommodation and also have to take into account whether they have charging points.

Not every one uses their car solely to go to work each day. Not everyone lives in cities where EVs may be more suitable and not everyone can make do with a pokey little hatchback when they have families to ferry about.

I wouldn't really consider any car suitable for the city if I don't have a dedicated parking space anyway.

I think in Ireland though you have a combination 50 kWh Fast CCS/Chademo Chargers anyways over most of the country so you don't need to stay overnight just 30 minutes, I don't think there is more than a 300km gap in between.

https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/charge-point-map

More an more Hotels do offer Charging though, there's even a filter on booking.com for it.

They aren't exactly small anymore either:

mickdw

Buy whatever suits your needs.
Diesels are still selling big time so they will be around for next 15 years anyway.
Personally I've never bought diesel but am actively considering one now among other things.
I very much like the idea of plug in hybrid for people that have driving pattern to suit it.
Typically they have small all electric range and then have petrol engine as well.
If one was doing circa 10 mile commute each way and needed a car for the cross country trip at the weekend, I can't think of anything better as you would be full electric on commute.

galwaytt

When I was in secondary school in the early 80's we were told 'The Ice Age Cometh', that oil was in short supply, and soon to run out, and will soon be unaffordable. And we're all going to die.

In 2008 the Greens told us the 'Hot Age Cometh' and that oil is running out, and diesels will Save The World, and are 'clean' so buy buy them now, and we'll even lower the price of them and their taxing. And we did buy them, in the millions. Oh, and, we're all going to die.

So now in 2019, someone else is telling me that oil is running out, diesel is the Fuel of the Devil, and we're all going to bake to death. Or, possibly, drown. Either way, And we're all going to die.

Getting kinda pi$$ed of with the lying and false dawns at this stage tbh.

3.6 flat six petrol, thanks, and fill 'er up. And I could buy two of them for the price of a Kona EV.

And no, it's a long way from running out.

So endeth the lesson

Rdwrer

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

EV's are at least 2 decades away from mass use/appeal in this country and given the glacial speed in which change in this country happens, its probably closer to 30 years before EV's become the norm (and hopefully in that time, hybrid technology and/or hydrogen powered vehicles will have improved sufficiently enough to ensure I never have the displeasure of owning or driving an EV)

You do realise that all petrol and diesel sales are to be banned in this country from 2030? That's only 11 years away. Electric vechicles will be the market leader long before that, because as the title of this thread suggests, people will be extremely reluctant to buy a petrol or diesel as it will have very little resale value.

Stallingrad

Rdwrer wrote: »

You do realise that all petrol and diesel sales are to be banned in this country from 2030? That's only 11 years away.

This is Ireland, if that happens I will eat my catalytic converter. You think Big Oil are going to sit by and watch fuel sales dry up? Politicians will be lobbied to oblivion. There is also the thorny issue of keeping this new EV fleet powered up, we will need a few extra power stations (wonder what will power those?), and we are not so great on major infrastructure.

Interesting times ahead.

Panrich

Rdwrer wrote: »

You do realise that all petrol and diesel sales are to be banned in this country from 2030? That's only 11 years away. Electric vechicles will be the market leader long before that, because as the title of this thread suggests, people will be extremely reluctant to buy a petrol or diesel as it will have very little resale value.

What about commercial vehicles/HGV. I can't see current technology evolving to the point where we can efficiently transport goods across any distances using EV. There needs to be a breakthrough in battery technology that is not looking imminent.

Silent Running

CorkMan_ wrote: »

I never thought about it until demanufactured mentioned it. What would an electric car be like for towing? Surely it'd reduced the range available by quite a bit?

Only thing I'd get an electric car for is if I had a short commute to work. I go to England a lot and can only see hassle doing that with an electric car.

Funny you should say that. I just got off the ferry this morning from a return trip to Hertfordshire, in my 28kWh Ioniq. Charging while we had lunch and coffee. It didn't seem like much hassle. Much nicer to do the trip in an electric car, much more relaxing. And I've done the same trip in a 2L diesel auto.

If I had to choose, I'd do the trip in the electric.

Silent Running

Stallingrad wrote: »

This is Ireland, if that happens I will eat my catalytic converter. You think Big Oil are going to sit by and watch fuel sales dry up? Politicians will be lobbied to oblivion. There is also the thorny issue of keeping this new EV fleet powered up, we will need a few extra power stations (wonder what will power those?), and we are not so great on major infrastructure.

Interesting times ahead.

Big oil are in the process of buying up charging companies. Shell and BP have done it in the UK. They are in the process of rolling out rapid chargers to their stations.

DEFTLEFTHAND

No it's not. Stop worrying about such nonsense.

We won't be banning your car anytime soon.

redcup342

Stallingrad wrote: »

This is Ireland, if that happens I will eat my catalytic converter. You think Big Oil are going to sit by and watch fuel sales dry up? Politicians will be lobbied to oblivion. There is also the thorny issue of keeping this new EV fleet powered up, we will need a few extra power stations (wonder what will power those?), and we are not so great on major infrastructure.

Interesting times ahead.

They said the very same thing about banning smoking in Public places.

Big Oil are not going to sit by and rely on Fuel sales anymore than Cigarette Companies rely on Cigarette Sales anymore to keep them going, they are investing into E-Cigarettes.



Writing is on the wall for Diesel in the Developed Cities of Europe anyways, even in die hard Diesel Germany, look at how much money VW is investing into Electric.

There are not enough cars avaialbe to buy at the moment. The reasons for that are manyfold but the biggest issue is that the car makers are not ready to fully commit to write down their investment in legacy tech. This then means that the battery makers won't invest before they have enough orders now there are not enough battery cells on the market.

The current battery technology is good enough, even to build HGV that could do 800 km between the statutory rest breaks. The price for such a HGV is currently just a little bit too high but companies like Nikola and Tesla are in full swing planning for them. The Merc, MAN/Scania, Iveco are also working on BEV HGVs but less committed to do so than the other two. Once they become available it will be a no brainer to get those instead of diesels.

For cars, again due to low production volumes they are snapped up at almost at any price which leads to the like of 48k Kona EV (38 including subsidies in Ireland). Another problem is that there are not enough variety in the volume market for anything but a small or mid size hatch.

All of the above will change in the near future I think. At the moment, if you can actually get one without waiting for year and it suits your needs and you have private charging for 99 percent of your driving it would be foolish not to at least consider getting one, especially if you own another car for those few times a year long trips. Once you can charge where you normally park driving an EV suddently becomes much more enjoyable than driving a fossil car. Just think public chargers as a backup plan and your own charger as the petrol station equivalent. You can easily do up to 40-50 k year with just that one overnight charge a day.

PS. We won't need any more power stations in the medium term. But once the EV revolution gets on full swing more infrastructure is needed. But also the redundant filling stations and associated stuff like refineries can be shut down to compensate.
PS2. The hydrogen sounded like a good idea 20 years ago but that ship has sailed.

_Kaiser_

I do an average of 1100km per week, on motorways for at least an hour at a time. I also rent and don't have a garden. My current car (in fact all I've had) was bought second hand for under 20k.

I can't see myself buying a new electric anytime soon.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I do an average of 1100km per week, on motorways for at least an hour at a time. I also rent and don't have a garden. My current car (in fact all I've had) was bought second hand for under 20k.

I can't see myself buying a new electric anytime soon.

Any chance getting a charging point fitted at work instead? At the moment the 38 k Kona would be only car in the market that suits but I reckon that by end of 2021 there will be an electric car in market that does what Kona does for 28 k instead. And once you factor in the fuel cost and maintenance cost difference (you probably burn around 4000 or 5000 yoyo worth of diesel per year at the moment) you would save the price difference in quite a short time.

bazz26

_Kaiser_ drives a 3.0 litre Quattro A6. What if he doesn't want to replace it with a small Kona type car, what if he doesn't want to or hasn't got 28k to spend on a car?

bazz26, as mentioned above the availabilty of anything but small hatches is the currently an issue and even paying Tesla money doesn't necessarily buy you the Audi interior quality and it will take even longer for decent second hand premium brand models becoming available.

But for the volume market currently a LEAF at 28k can easily match a Qashqai at 28k both for spec and space if the range suits you (i.e. you travel up to 150 km a day on motorway and have private charging). And if you can get one without waiting for a year.

redcup342

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I do an average of 1100km per week, on motorways for at least an hour at a time. I also rent and don't have a garden. My current car (in fact all I've had) was bought second hand for under 20k.

I can't see myself buying a new electric anytime soon.

I was doing that commute for 5 years (1280 km /week), that sounds like a perfect use case, you must be spending around 500 quid a month on Diesel alone.

You'd only need to do 2/3 charges / week depending on if that's your commuting mileage or your total mileage and with a 64kWh battery, taking around 2 - 2 1/2 hours of your time on a 50kWh fast charger.

It's currently free ... so essentially it's like getting paid 60 euros an hour for time spent having something to eat/read(not taking into account the servicing on your current car with oil/gearbox,clutch etc the depreciation putting 60k / year on a Diesel Car)

Would be an added bonus if there was a charger close to your workplace.

If the cars that are available now were available them + the fast charging option it would have been a no brainer, instead I just moved closer to work.

Cilar

mengele wrote: »

Well I will be very slow to make the switch to electric. The simple task of just filling it with petrol or diesel every two weeks suits me far better than having to charging it every day.

Plugging in the car in the driveway every (few) days is actually faster and more convenient than traveling to the petrol station every few weeks. It's not more complicated or time-consuming than plugging in a mobile phone to charge overnight.

I think people are starting making this shift in term of thinking really fast. Fewer and fewer people see charging similar to refilling a gas of tank in a petrol station when it's actually like having a petrol pump in your driveway.

I already see this awakening happening in a broader way as demand in 3+-year-old second hand electric is increasing (their value is actually increasing compared to last year, for the same cars), and suspect this will expand like wildfire from 2020/21 onward as more and more people start shifting their thinking and learn more about electric, hence my initial post about the collapse in value in regular diesel/petrol car on the second-hand market from 2021 onwards.

Cilar

On the same topic, I also see a reduction in value for houses with communal parking (no home charging), without a driveway as electric car adoption broaden.

slave1

It totally depends on your needs, but I must point out that some of those early posts in relation to EV are very ignorant of where EV's are at.
I've had a Leaf30 for over two years and it's perfect for around town, with constant AC in Summer and constant pre-heating/AC/heating we get 190kms/130kms.
The car does not have to be charged every day, we charge about twice a week and maybe three times a week every second week, it takes all of 20seconds to plug it in, not exactly hardship and no need to seek out a fuel station.
We are in the EV a lot, well more than "10 minutes every single morning and evening".
For our first year I kept a record of our cost for 12,500kms and it was €376 including fuel, tax and servicing (got some free on-street charging while waiting for our home charger install).

Since the Leaf30 there are longer range cars, the Ioniq and then greater in price the eGolf and BMW i3, more recently the Kona64 with 350kms range and shortly the larger NiroEV with similar range, this is ignoring the expensive Audi/Jag/Tesla EV's with greater bells/whistles and some with savage range.

The above driving pattern may suit some and if not then fine but discounting an option without exploring it rationally is a bit silly.

I have every intention of keeping our car for another 10years + with absolute minimal maintenance costs (service is €78 at Nissan main dealer).
A friend of mine just passed the 200,000kms mark in his Leaf and it's his commute car, virtually zero fuel costs as he charges at work every day, work out his fuel savings!!!


Our other car is a diesel and we use that to suit longer driving patterns and my longer work commute, so as I said earlier it's all about driving patterns.

meeeeh

But it's not just about driving patterns. People see a vintage Alfa, Merc or even a Mini and sigh in admiration. There are cars which are sexy and desirable, Leaf is sort of vegan sausage. Good for the environment, maybe great to drive but looking at it you wonder do you really want to. Nobody will be looking at Leaf in 50 years thinking that's a design classic. (Sorry to single out Leaf but I think Nissan make some of least attractive cars on the market).

There just isn't enough choice or design flair at least among more sensibly priced electric cars. Most of us are not exactly sensible in our car purchases anyway. People buy SUVs to drive kids to school, some of us might buy an Italian car knowing it will lose value twice as fast as Passat and some buy cars that are happiest doing speeds which are not even legal in Ireland. At the moment electric cars are bought because they make sense but very few excite looking at them.

I think electric cars will become a lot more prominent soon and will replace diesel and petrol a lot sooner than in 30 years. But we need Apple IPhone type of a car to persuade us to ditch Nokias in large numbers.

Rdwrer

Cilar wrote: »

On the same topic, I also see a reduction in value for houses with communal parking (no home charging), without a driveway as electric car adoption broaden.

This is a really interesting point.

Sierra Oscar

Cilar wrote: »

On the same topic, I also see a reduction in value for houses with communal parking (no home charging), without a driveway as electric car adoption broaden.

It's one issue I haven't seen explored much at all. I'm looking into it a bit myself at the moment. There doesn't seem to be many companies offering a service for people living in apartment blocks / buildings with communal parking who need to have access to some sort of account based electric charging point system.

Currently the industry seems to assume that people can hook straight up to their charging point on their own private driveway which is connected to their own electricity supply that they can control access to. There will have to be fair bit of innovation in this area in the years ahead I reckon.

redcup342

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

It's one issue I haven't seen explored much at all. I'm looking into it a bit myself at the moment. There doesn't seem to be many companies offering a service for people living in apartment blocks / buildings with communal parking who need to have access to some sort of account based electric charging point system.

Currently the industry seems to assume that people can hook straight up to their charging point on their own private driveway which is connected to their own electricity supply that they can control access to. There will have to be fair bit of innovation in this area in the years ahead I reckon.

That's true, until they start enforcing parking rules on Electric Car bays and offering an option to reserve spaces then it's not that convenient for people.

Here in Dusseldorf they've started going heavy on the illegal parking, I saw near my place an Electric Car rolled up, X3 was parked in the charging bay.

Guy in electric car got on his phone, tow truck rolled up 10 minutes later and towed away the X3.

Until they start dealing with it in a serious way then its difficult for people to have confidence in it.

Hamburg has a similar policy
https://www.polizei.hamburg/service/6808000/e-kfz/

Google Translated:

The police and the State Traffic Authority endeavor to ensure that drivers of e-vehicles have the certainty that they will actually be able to park and charge their e-vehicles on these special parking spaces at charging stations, which are intended solely for them. Only in this way can the intended pre-emption for e-vehicles be effective and create a genuine incentive to participate in an electric vehicle on the road.

meeeeh

redcup342 wrote: »

That's true, until they start enforcing parking rules on Electric Car bays and offering an option to reserve spaces then it's not that convenient for people.

Here in Dusseldorf they've started going heavy on the illegal parking, I saw near my place an Electric Car rolled up, X3 was parked in the charging bay.

Guy in electric car got on his phone, tow truck rolled up 10 minutes later and towed away the X3.

Until they start dealing with it in a serious way then its difficult for people to have confidence in it.

Hamburg has a similar policy
https://www.polizei.hamburg/service/6808000/e-kfz/

Google Translated:

That should be done also for parking in cycling lanes and similar. I actually don't know why cities with problem parking don't employ tow truck to empty the space of those cars not paying, parking on disabled or electric car parking places. I remember it was done with some enthusiasm around my university campus and every so often someone was cursing because they had to take a bus to municipal car park and pay a fine to get the car.

Anyway would communal prepay meters work in estates with communal parking?

Renegade Mechanic

Lol, EV drivers should be thanking ICE drivers....
They should be BEGGING us to stay put!
Because if everyone goes electric, everyone will be paying road tax of probably two grand to make up for the loss in fuel taxes.
What you thought you'd get away with paying less to exist?

redcup342

meeeeh wrote: »

That should be done also for parking in cycling lanes and similar. I actually don't know why cities with problem parking don't employ tow to empty the space for those not paying, parking on disabled or electric car parking places. I remember it was done with some enthusiasm around my university campus and every so often someone was cursing because they had to take a bus to municipal car park and pay a fine to get the car.

Anyway would communal prepay meters work in estates with communal parking?

You wouldn't need a communal prepay meter, way it works here is like a Phone contract, you can charge on your home network of chargers and then roam on others.

So like with Maingau in Germany they have a Rate for people with just Car Charging and a different Rate for customers that have home leccy with them.

Then for different countries you have roaming rates.



That Maingau crowd were REALLY cheap (2 cent per minute for customers on a 100kWh fast Charger) , so much so that Dutch Residents were getting accounts with them in Germany and using them as a roaming provider in their own country.