Is it stupid to buy a petrol/diesel car in 2019?

meeeeh

redcup342 wrote: »

You wouldn't need a communal prepay meter, way it works here is like a Phone contract, you can charge on your home network of chargers and then roam on others.

So like with Maingau in Germany they have a Rate for people with just Car Charging and a different Rate for customers that have home leccy with them.

Then for different countries you have roaming rates.



That Maingau crowd were REALLY cheap (2 cent per minute for customers on a 100kWh fast Charger) , so much so that Dutch Residents were getting accounts with them in Germany and using them as a roaming provider in their own country.

Sorry that's what I meant. A prepay system where you can top up. So if apartment building has communal charging points you can enter in your password or whatever and charge. They will have to install quite a few though.

drunkmonkey

meeeeh wrote: »

There are cars which are sexy and desirable, Leaf is sort of vegan sausage. Good for the environment

Good for the environment??
Built in a coal powered plant, battery ingredients mined by big diesel machinery cutting holes in the ground, shipped over on a diesel ship and delivered to you on a diesel truck and if you break down your picked up in a diesel recovery truck, pretty much a write off after 10yrs unless you feel like lumping 10k for a new set of batteries on a car worth €200 and hard to insure.

Any self respecting Hippy wouldn't be caught near one ..much more environmentally friendly to nurse on their old VW Kombi.

meeeeh

meeeeh wrote: »

Nobody will be looking at Leaf in 50 years thinking that's a design classic.

Having owned both the original and now the current I actually think that the original is much more interesting design and apart from those headlamps and the view in general from front. The lamps were shaped to direct airflow away from the wing mirrors to reduce wind noise. And it will probably have at least a curiosity value as one of the first mass produced BEV. It stands out from the crowd which was intentional at the time, you notice them even if you're not interested in them. The current model has really strange proportions at places and just blends in with the other ugly Nissans.

Anyway, that's my opinion and I'm allowed to have one.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Good for the environment??
Built in a coal powered plant, battery ingredients mined by big diesel machinery cutting holes in the ground, shipped over on a diesel ship and delivered to you on a diesel truc

This is a classic badly informed message. If you start to think about the volume and weight of a tankerful of fuel that goes through your conventional car (think about it) and compare that to the weight of material in the battery (a few tankfuls of fuel) that all need to be refined and hauled in the petrol station near you, you can start to see the fallacy of what you say.

Rdwrer

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Good for the environment??
Built in a coal powered plant, battery ingredients mined by big diesel machinery cutting holes in the ground, shipped over on a diesel ship and delivered to you on a diesel truck and if you break down your picked up in a diesel recovery truck, pretty much a write off after 10yrs unless you feel like lumping 10k for a new set of batteries on a car worth €200 and hard to insure.

Any self respecting Hippy wouldn't be caught near one ..much more environmentally friendly to nurse on their old VW Kombi.

It's staggering how afraid some people are of change. You sound like one of those Southern Americans who thinks we're trying to take their guns

Idbatterim

mengele wrote: »

Well I will be very slow to make the switch to electric. The simple task of just filling it with petrol or diesel every two weeks suits me far better than having to charging it every day.

some of them have a what, 600km range now? so how would you be charging every day?

If you can afford to buy new and are doing huge mileage, electric will save you a fortune! Once you can reach there and back again on the same charge. (So for no extra head ache, if you can charge between commute there and back again, thats still good)

Idbatterim

EV's are at least 2 decades away from mass use/appeal in this country and given the glacial speed in which change in this country happens, its probably closer to 30 years before EV's become the norm (and hopefully in that time, hybrid technology and/or hydrogen powered vehicles will have improved sufficiently enough to ensure I never have the displeasure of owning or driving an EV)

LOL! look how quick the diesel band wagon happened! The leaps in technology every few years are ridiculous, now that it is a given than diesel / petrol are things of the past, you think VW and the rest wont now forge ahead with masses of spend on R&D in electric? Its the future, even if back waters like Ireland dont think it is, Germany one of the worlds biggest economies and producers of cars will lead the way and we here, will be forced to follow, thank god! I write this as someone who drives a petrol, but it will be some great day, when they start selling these noisy with pollution from the tail pipes, relatively high maintenance (over their life time) fossil fuel v electric...

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-talk/still-no-current-for-evs-37296923.html

(read the below article earlier) in other cities, charge points are being put into existing street lighting etc at minimal cost...

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/volkswagen-reckons-itll-be-sucking-diesel-with-nextgeneration-chargers-37797428.html

w211

We do not have so much power to charge all of electric cars. It needs massive amount power. Every home must have industrial power or they will charge 3 days the battery. All these amps cost a big money. The grid is not ready for ev.

w211

w211 wrote: »

We do not have so much power to charge all of electric cars. It needs massive amount power. Every home must have industrial power or they will charge 3 days the battery. All these amps cost a big money. The grid is not ready for ev.

We don't have instrial power in our house but manage to drive an EV for 30000 km a year with home charging alone. As a matter of fact our EV takes almost exactly (a bit less actually) of power than our induction hob. And luckily of us we don't normally use the said hob at the same time the car is timed to charge from midnight on.

The car is plugged in on average every second or third night as we don't drive 200 kilometers a day (which would be 200 x 365 = 73000 kilometers a year).

redcup342

w211 wrote: »

We do not have so much power to charge all of electric cars. It needs massive amount power. Every home must have industrial power or they will charge 3 days the battery. All these amps cost a big money. The grid is not ready for ev.

You don't have a fast chargers at home, that would be stupid and they are quite large anyway.

The 'fast' home chargers like the Zappi EV Charger use about 6.6 kwh meaning it would take around 9 and a bit hours to completely charge a Kia E-Niro 64k kWh

A typical immersion tank uses 3-4 kWhs anyways.

Doesn't need to sit there all for one charge either, you can just unplug go out and come back then plug it in to top it up to 100%

Fully charged it would get you a range of 455 km.

People just need to get around the concept of having to completely empty the ' tank' and completely fill it again.

You can also time it to go on at night time for cheap nightsaver electricity (Companies want to dump power for cheap at this time as people aren't using kettle/tvs/immersions/radiators/Lights etc)

Sabre Man

Petrol and diesel cars are great. The joy of filling your car with a smelly liquid that pollutes our towns and cities and causes cancer.

How could anyone want instant torque or the ability to preheat of precool your car instead?

Renegade Mechanic

Sabre Man wrote: »

Petrol and diesel cars are great. The joy of filling your car with a smelly liquid that pollutes our towns and cities and causes cancer.

How could anyone want instant torque or the ability to preheat of precool your car instead?

Yeah, how could anyone not want to spend 7 grand on a battery after a few years when it's range goes down, and down, and down... Lol..
Fair mad if by the time you needed one, your car was actually worth less than the battery it needed. Good luck trading or selling that!

I've said it before I'll say it again. As a replacement of the ICE the EV is dead in the water until they replace lithium with something that isn't literally too rare to actually replace the ICE. Because it is. Hell of an investment tho in the mean time, that and copper..

There'll be better batteries along, ones that will degrade at a rate slower than the car they're bolted to, and lithium's ecology-destroying manufacturing will fall by the wayside.
They will earn some more customers.
Me, personally, the only way forward involves the ICE mated to a generator instead of a gearbox.
Those will be the vehicles that forge ahead.

jimgoose

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

...Me, personally, the only way forward involves the ICE mated to a generator instead of a gearbox.
Those will be the vehicles that forge ahead.

CIE 181-Class, bah. You wouldn't bate it with rod-iron.

Skatedude

redcup342 wrote: »

They'll never mimic the fueling of petrol/diesel cars since there is no need to as the infrastructure already exists to fuel it at your home.

Why would you drive to a place to hang around and fuel your car when you can plug it in like your phone and go to bed.

Because so very many people have to use on street parking, electric cars can never replace fuel based cars because of that.

Renegade Mechanic

jimgoose wrote: »

CIE 181-Class, bah. You wouldn't bate it with rod-iron.

That's the one! Now shave 50 tonnes off it, stick a wee 2cyl diesel/genny into it, get ready to mass produce a car that does 250+mpg aaaand lose half your value in an emissions scandal

About the Lithium and Cobolt: The difference between the known reserves and the actual available deposits are two different numbers. With the current consumption the *known* reserves of Li are good for approx. 140 years. Bit like the known oil reserves from 1982 onwards:

https://www.indexmundi.com/energy/?product=oil&graph=reserves

Currenlty we have over twice as many oil reserves as back in '82 even when using the stuff more and more each year. And no, we didn't run out by 1990 as was predicted back in 70's. The same will happen with Li and Co. And if those metals are really in a risk of running, it will be possible to design batteries using different metals. Ni was the previous Li and Pb before that but the technology has moved on. And anyway if Li turns out to be the best possible ingredient for batteries, the mining companies will go out and find more. At the moment there is no need to as there are great reserves available.

Sabre Man

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Yeah, how could anyone not want to spend 7 grand on a battery after a few years when it's range goes down, and down, and down... Lol..
Fair mad if by the time you needed one, your car was actually worth less than the battery it needed. Good luck trading or selling that! /QUOTE]

This is basically a non-issue.

And engines never need to be replaced or serviced?

Renegade Mechanic

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Yeah, how could anyone not want to spend 7 grand on a battery after a few years when it's range goes down, and down, and down... Lol..
Fair mad if by the time you needed one, your car was actually worth less than the battery it needed. Good luck trading or selling that!

The current generation of cars have battery warranty of 8 years to protect against degradation. You'll get a new battery under warranty if there are issues but unlike the mark 1 Nissan LEAF you won't most likely have to.

At the end of life when the battery capacity has reached about 70 percent from new your old battery will still be suitable for static energy storage and will therefore have a residual value of 1000-2000 Euro, so you will actually be better off scrapping an end of life EV than a normal car which is worth maybe 50-100.

Pussyhands

redcup342 wrote: »

I have a mate started doing a 250 km round trip daily in his Kona, car has a 400 km range.

Fills in 45 minutes at a 100kw Charger, but he rarely uses a rapid charger anyway, only use case would be going from Amsterdam to Berlin or something, drive for 3 1/2 hours, stop plug in and go for a bite to eat then come back and carry on.

I've seen this type of comment often with EV owners. "oh just go for a coffee while the car charges"

Your car is deciding when to have a break, not you.

Pussyhands

Pussyhands wrote: »

I've seen this type of comment often with EV owners. "oh just go for a coffee while the car charges"

Your car is deciding when to have a break, not you.

My car normally charges when I'm asleep so the EV actually wins here. Why would you want to spend 100 yoyo's and the time and inconvenience for driving to a filling station when you could just connect your charging lead when returning home. On top of that you also waste time standing there holding the pump hose for minutes at the time instead of less than a ten seconds it takes to plug in.

:-)

Humour:

Tesla driver goes to test a petrol car/

meeeeh

I don't think charging at home part is the problem for anyone who has space.

meeeeh

samih wrote: »

Humour:

Tesla driver goes to test a petrol car/

In other words: smug wanker who can afford high performance car is amused by what plebs buy.

Renegade Mechanic

Sabre Man wrote: »

This is basically a non-issue.

And engines never need to be replaced or serviced?

Serviced, yes, like an EV, without the oil and filter.
Replaced? Hardly ever
At the end of the day, it is 100% guaranteed you'll have to replace the battery - and it may cost more than the car is worth.
There is no guarantee whatsoever that you'll have to replace the engine.

samih wrote: »

The current generation of cars have battery warranty of 8 years to protect against degradation. You'll get a new battery under warranty if there are issues but unlike the mark 1 Nissan LEAF you won't most likely have to.

At the end of life when the battery capacity has reached about 70 percent from new your old battery will still be suitable for static energy storage and will therefore have a residual value of 1000-2000 Euro, so you will actually be better off scrapping an end of life EV than a normal car which is worth maybe 50-100.

If a battery had 70% of its capacity after 8 years it would command at least close to 70% of it's initial value - say 5k. Not 1 or 2....

meeeeh

meeeeh wrote: »

In other words: smug wanker who can afford high performance car is amused by what plebs buy.

Us plebs and still make a difference too. If you're planning to buy a new car in 2019 please make sure you make an informative choice.

Back in 2015 I changed from a 250 EUR car to a brand new LEAF and when I traded that in last year after 71k the LEAF had depreciated by the exact price difference between bying petrol for the old car and night time electricity for the LEAF. As the service costs, tax and insurance were cheaper for the LEAF I got actually to drive a brand new car essentially for free for 2.5 years.

Pussyhands

meeeeh wrote: »

In other words: smug wanker who can afford high performance car is amused by what plebs buy.

Teslas are ugly. You have to press a button to electrically open the glovebox.

Rubberchikken

if money was no object id buy the electric. love the idea of it.
but as money isnt too plentiful id buy a good second hand petrol.

Skatedude

samih wrote: »

My car normally charges when I'm asleep so the EV actually wins here. Why would you want to spend 100 yoyo's and the time and inconvenience for driving to a filling station when you could just connect your charging lead when returning home. On top of that you also waste time standing there holding the pump hose for minutes at the time instead of less than a ten seconds it takes to plug in.

:-)

Lucky you, again, what about the huge part of the population who don't have driveways?

Renegade Mechanic

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Sf a battery had 70% of its capacity after 8 years it would command at least close to 70% of it's initial value - say 5k. Not 1 or 2....

What I meant that even at the scrappage stage the degraded battery is still worth lots more money than most of the scrappage vehicles. How long it will take to reach that 70 percent is not clear but if it happens within first 8 years (and 160-200k) it won't be your problem. And as the car makers are here to make money they won't give you a 8 year warranty for the battery if they expect it do to die within 5 years for example.

As the electric cars are extreme simple mechanically and most are capable for really high miles I can see third party upgrades starting to happen soon. For example for the first gen LEAF you can already get the battery refurbed to 90 percent or better for about GBP 1500 in UK by a third party. As the technology moves on with batteries it will be possible to fit newer generation battery to an older vehicle and that way the car will actually have better range that what it had when it left factory. Mechanically having a drive train whose motor has only one moving part and a single gearset for transmission means that those can also fixed quite cheaply. Although I have never heard a failure yet apart from old Teslas that had actual design failure in the drive unit. But as those cars have 8 year unlimited miles warranty for the full drivetrain it was again no issue for the owner who got improved design fitted for free back in the day.

Sabre Man

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Serviced, yes, like an EV, without the oil and filter.

And timing belts/chains, spark plugs, DPF filters.

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

At the end of the day, it is 100% guaranteed you'll have to replace the battery

No it isn't. I don't suppose you've got some data to back up this statement?

Skatedude

Skatedude wrote: »

Lucky you, again, what about the huge part of the population who don't have driveways?

That is one of the biggest problems at the moment I think. Legislation and clear rules for EV charging will be needed, some of which is already happening. I think I read from somewhere that new developments with at least certain number of parking spaces will have have chargers installed, and in very near future.

But in general much more work is needed for houses with no fixed parking spots.

Renegade Mechanic

Sabre Man wrote: »

And timing belts/chains, spark plugs, DPF filters.

None of which should come close - combined - to the cost of a replacement battery by the time both cars have reached that mileage/age.
Overall "fuelling" costs fall towards the EV's favour, but that big battery balances it out.

And as more and more people switch over, the road tax on EV's will have to compensate for the fuel tax lost. Or the electricity price. Or both!

Sabre Man wrote: »

No it isn't. I don't suppose you've got some data to back up this statement?

Er, it's a battery? It's kind of what they do.

Renegade Mechanic

samih wrote: »

About the Lithium and Cobolt: The difference between the known reserves and the actual available deposits are two different numbers. With the current consumption the *known* reserves of Li are good for approx. 140 years. Bit like the known oil reserves from 1982 onwards:

https://www.indexmundi.com/energy/?product=oil&graph=reserves

Clever. Current consumption - in which everyone is essentially only using lithium to watch durty films on the quiet
Start dragging it up to meet the demands associated with replacing ICE vehicles and we should see some interesting figures pertaining to lithiums reserve longevity.

samih wrote: »

Currenlty we have over twice as many oil reserves as back in '82 even when using the stuff more and more each year. And no, we didn't run out by 1990 as was predicted back in 70's. The same will happen with Li and Co. And if those metals are really in a risk of running, it will be possible to design batteries using different metals. Ni was the previous Li and Pb before that but the technology has moved on. And anyway if Li turns out to be the best possible ingredient for batteries, the mining companies will go out and find more. At the moment there is no need to as there are great reserves available.

I don't see it myself. Back then there was two factors at play for oil - old and inaccurate geological mapping abilities and then the fact that the rules for export changed so that in essence "the more you had, the more you could export". Naturally, known reserves doubled overnight..
As for lithium in this day and age, I'd imagine they have a much better tab on what's available.

mikeecho

My current car is a diesel.. my next car.. I'm not sure.

Her car, is petrol, and we'll be replacing it with a Diesel in the next few months.

Electric, just isn't an option for us.

Tomorrow I'll have to do a 760km journey (cork to newry return)

It's long enough without having to recharge.. with the Diesel, I can do it door to door on a single tank (and probably back up again)

Silent Running

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

None of which should come close - combined - to the cost of a replacement battery by the time both cars have reached that mileage/age.
Overall "fuelling" costs fall towards the EV's favour, but that big battery balances it out.

And as more and more people switch over, the road tax on EV's will have to compensate for the fuel tax lost. Or the electricity price. Or both!


Er, it's a battery? It's kind of what they do.

Seeing as you're so informed on batteries. How many cycles do you think an I3 battery is rated for, and what would the mileage be when these cycles are completed?

mikeecho

mikeecho wrote: »

My current car is a diesel.. my next car.. I'm not sure.

Her car, is petrol, and we'll be replacing it with a Diesel in the next few months.

Electric, just isn't an option for us.

Tomorrow I'll have to do a 760km journey (cork to newry return)

It's long enough without having to recharge.. with the Diesel, I can do it door to door on a single tank (and probably back up again)

Get one EV, whoever drives more during the day drives it unless it's beyond the range of said EV. For the occasional long trip to Newry take the diesel car.

For a two car family with a drive an EV is even better than for rest of us as you can always take the more suitable vehicle for the day.

mikeecho

samih wrote: »

Get one EV, whoever drives more during the day drives it unless it's beyond the range of said EV. For the occasional long trip to Newry take the diesel car.

For a two car family with a drive an EV is even better than for rest of us as you can always take the more suitable vehicle for the day.

I'll skip EV and wait for CNG

mikeecho

mikeecho wrote: »

I'll skip EV and wait for CNG

It's still not clear to me why the LPG didn't become a more popular choice of fuel here about 20 years ago. That time most of the cars were petrol and it's relatively easy to convert them.

Most likely that ship has now sailed too. The power efficiency of BEVs is so much better than any convetional engine. You get many more miles per gallon running a combined heat and electricity plant and a charge a battery EV using it compared to driving on gas directly.

Renegade Mechanic

Silent Running wrote: »

Seeing as you're so informed on batteries. How many cycles do you think an I3 battery is rated for, and what would the mileage be when these cycles are completed?

Supposedly half a million miles worth of charge cycles.

Now I'm not sure, but that could be the same battery that BMW cover for 8 years or 100,000km, in terms of warranty but my "informed" self is certainly open to correction!

redcup342

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Serviced, yes, like an EV, without the oil and filter.
Replaced? Hardly ever
At the end of the day, it is 100% guaranteed you'll have to replace the battery - and it may cost more than the car is worth.
There is no guarantee whatsoever that you'll have to replace the engine.

If a battery had 70% of its capacity after 8 years it would command at least close to 70% of it's initial value - say 5k. Not 1 or 2....

Say you do have to replace the battery, and in the Gen One Leaf is able to easily reach 200000 Kilometers, there's people driving with 240000 km on the original battery (and even then you can still use it)

Say a Diesel with a tank of fuel gets you around 1000km so we'll 65 euros for tank.

That's around 13000 euros worth of Diesel, that wouldn't have cost you a penny in the Leaf.

Now add in the Extra servicing costs.

Even if you did have to replace the battery, how much would your Diesel car with 200000 kilometers on it be worth ?

Add up the deprecation and the theoretical 13000 euros of Fuel costs + whatever you would have spent on oil.

And that ^^ Is almost 10 year old tech.

I don't get it why people are so aggressively against Electric, costs wise these days the numbers add up, back some years ago when I looked into it, it was not feasible as the cars didn't fit my commute.

My worst costs on the car were:
Depreciation, Fuel and Servicing (and Motor Tax - Although Motor Tax is much higher in NL than IE)

Depreciation, Fuel and Servicing all goes down with an electric car by a huge amount.

Renegade Mechanic

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Supposedly half a million miles worth of charge cycles.

Now I'm not sure, but that could be the same battery that BMW cover for 8 years or 100,000km, in terms of warranty but my "informed" self is certainly open to correction!

The i3 actually has possibly the best performing battery packs in the market due to advance heating and cooling system they chose to use when designing it. And they were really conservative with the warranty back in the day.

When the packs get bigger the reduced number charging cycling makes some of the big battery cars like Tesla Model S possibly a million mile cars without a battery pack replacement. And they incidentally don't actually have any mileage restriction on their 8 year drivetrain warranty.

Silent Running

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

Supposedly half a million miles worth of charge cycles.

Now I'm not sure, but that could be the same battery that BMW cover for 8 years or 100,000km, in terms of warranty but my "informed" self is certainly open to correction!

Yup, circa 843,000 kms. This is expected to be the distance where the battery would reach 80% capacity. While that would still be a usable battery for most, it wouldn't be perfect. The value of the battery would still be considerable though, as already pointed out, because of the second life as static storage. Think PV system storage.

How many engines reach 843,000 kms with no maintenance? Or, more telling, how many engines would you need to replace to get to that mileage, and what would their value be when removed from the car?

Regarding the guarantee, how many miles does the petrol or diesel engine get?

AlanG

Rdwrer wrote: »

You do realise that all petrol and diesel sales are to be banned in this country from 2030?

Is that is passed legislation. If not then its as reliable as most politicians promises. I'm pretty sure the Tesla X is the only fully electric car approved for towing right now, that won't change massively in 10 years. There are strong arguments for EV but the 2030 target is not one of them.

mikeecho

samih wrote: »

It's still not clear to me why the LPG didn't become a more popular choice of fuel here about 20 years ago. That time most of the cars were petrol and it's relatively easy to convert them.

Most likely that ship has now sailed too. The power efficiency of BEVs is so much better than any convetional engine. You get many more miles per gallon running a combined heat and electricity plant and a charge a battery EV using it compared to driving on gas directly.

LPG was taxed to fcuk, that's why it didn't work.

CNG is being rolled out by Bord Gas, and Circle K will be installing CNG pumps during late 2019 and into 202+

The fuel companies Shell , BP, Exxon etc have a vested interest in CNG.

So.. while EV will be the end game, Gas will be the intermediate.

Sabre Man

AlanG wrote: »

Is that is passed legislation. If not then its as reliable as most politicians promises. I'm pretty sure the Tesla X is the only fully electric car approved for towing right now, that won't change massively in 10 years. There are strong arguments for EV but the 2030 target is not one of them.

Jaguar I-PACE, Audi e-tron and Mercedes EQC can also tow.

redcup342

mikeecho wrote: »

LPG was taxed to fcuk, that's why it didn't work.

CNG is being rolled out by Bord Gas, and Circle K will be installing CNG pumps during late 2019 and into 202+

The fuel companies Shell , BP, Exxon etc have a vested interest in CNG.

So.. while EV will be the end game, Gas will be the intermediate.

CNG has been around for years here in Germany, tons of Taxis using it, in Holland as well (although in NL LPG is more popular) . Too expensive to go building out new stations all being scaled back now.

The CNG cars have less of a range, you have to plan more as the usage pattern is the same a Petrol/Diesel with less stations and the cars are pretty much the cost of a Diesel plus a few thousand euros.

slave1

redcup342 wrote: »

Say you do have to replace the battery, and in the Gen One Leaf is able to easily reach 200000 Kilometers, there's people driving with 240000 km on the original battery (and even then you can still use it

Mate of mine has a 2104 Leaf24 from new, uses it pretty much exclusively as his commute car on crappy back roads, charges at work for free, lost his first bar at XMas and car passed 200,000 last month.
Apart from tyres and servicing he hasn’t put another cent in it, even original discs/pads.
Work out those savings!

mikeecho

redcup342 wrote: »

CNG has been around for years here in Germany, tons of Taxis using it, in Holland as well (although in NL LPG is more popular) . Too expensive to go building out new stations all being scaled back now.

The CNG cars have less of a range, you have to plan more as the usage pattern is the same a Petrol/Diesel with less stations and the cars are pretty much the cost of a Diesel plus a few thousand euros.

I was recently at the Audi Ingolstadt factory and saw their eTron line, along with their gTron line.

Lots of car manufacturers are producing CNG cars.
We just need the infrastructure in this country, which will be rolled out in the next 18 to 36 months, with CircleK taking a lead roll.

Once the CNG pumps are in place..




If you build it they will come.

Water John

Somebody should tell VW that they have got it wrong in going electric across the the whole stable of makes.

donkey balls

Someone mentioned using Hydrogen as fuel, A bus company in Aberdeen trailed it out a while back never followed up on how they got on with it the only by product of Hydrogen is water.
The thing is it cost a fortune to manufacture with production facilities of the gas in Ireland &UK counting to a few plants. As someone else mentioned earlier when the govt brought in cheaper motor tax for new diesel cars I was still paying crazy money on tax for a 1.8 petrol.
Then due to the cars age (Even though it was NCT and serviced every year) I found it hard to get insurance so ended up selling it on and buying a diesel, Now I'm told that diesel is bad and electric is the way to go even though the car uses adblue which has been in use on trucks and buses for over 10 years.