Grand National 2019 Aintree

kksaints

Shame about what happened to Up for Review and that's the third horse that the Wylies have lost between Cheltenham and Aintree but on the ITV rerun I don't know why they didn't show the fence. The fall happened in the middle of the pack and with some good editing it would have been reasonably easy to avoid showing footage of the stricken horse.

RivetingRoger

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Where did Jury Duty finish?

On his arse

paddy no 11

How many no hopers be entered by o learys next year to pad race for tiger roll

Whoever bought those 2 rejects needs there head tested

The Mig

What a horse

Angliru

Goosebumps. Haven't had a single penny on any if his four bigs wins in the last two years and couldn't be more delighted to see a horse win. It'd be fitting to retire him now but they must be itching for a crack at the Gold Cup.

jacool

paddy no 11 wrote: »

How many no hopers be entered by o learys next year to pad race for tiger roll

Whoever bought those 2 rejects needs there head tested

And you'll still have O'Leary saying "if he started now, he still wouldn't win". Knows a lot about horses clearly.

FortuneChip

How many horses win a Grand National and then seemingly improve the following season?

He’s incredible.

howareyakid

Go on the Tiger! Cheered him home even though I didn’t have a penny on him. Never should have overlooked him though!

Angliru

What was most impressive for me is how he was seemingly unaffected by being on his nose two fences in a row so late in the race. Nice to see Gordon show some emotion too. I'm a big fan of Gordy but he's the most stereotypical "ah yeah sure be grand delighted yeah yeah sure" Irish person. It was good to see him show some rawness today.

WicklowBrave

Tiger Roll winning Nationals is good for racing. The handicapper will give him every chance to win his third.

BumperD

You imagine there’s enough material to make a movie on tiger roll.

FatRat

It's probably time we start discussing Tiger Roll's legacy - I know O'Leary is not all there in some of his comments but he was saying he'd retire him after Cheltenham next year before running him in another national. If he were to retire next year how would we describe him?

At this point would it be fair to say he is one of the best NH horses of all time? 4-time cheltenham winner including a 2m grade 1 hurdle. 2 Nationals. Has won top class races over 2m, 2 1/2m, 3m, 3 1/2m and Grand national distance. How can a horse be this good and this versatile? Have we ever seen anything as good? I would say we haven't. Still only 9 and he could've won that today off 11-10.

Shemale

meath4sam wrote: »

Done. Did they not start from standing still? Which would indicate a false start?

They did but he said he wasnt letting them go, I think its only a false start if the tape goes up

theaceofspies

Shemale wrote: »

They did but he said he wasnt letting them go, I think its only a false start if the tape goes up

Just watching that was amazing - what a horse.

Dr. Bre

They should aim him at a gold cup next year at this rate

Motivator

FatRat wrote: »

It's probably time we start discussing Tiger Roll's legacy - I know O'Leary is not all there in some of his comments but he was saying he'd retire him after Cheltenham next year before running him in another national. If he were to retire next year how would we describe him?

At this point would it be fair to say he is one of the best NH horses of all time? 4-time cheltenham winner including a 2m grade 1 hurdle. 2 Nationals. Has won top class races over 2m, 2 1/2m, 3m, 3 1/2m and Grand national distance. How can a horse be this good and this versatile? Have we ever seen anything as good? I would say we haven't. Still only 9 and he could've won that today off 11-10.

I would say he is up there with the greats of jumps racing after that today. I don’t think ive ever actually backed him but i have to admit I wanted him to win jumping two out. it’s hard not to appreciate how good he is.

In my lifetime, I would count Kauto Star as being the best I’ve ever seen. He was classy, gutsy and great to watch. While Tiger Roll is a hugely different horse and has never appealed to me in the same way Kauto Star did - he could end up trumping his achievements. Tiger Roll is an absolute freak of a horse and I don’t think what he has achieved will ever be done again. That is why he will go down as one of the all time greats.

CH3OH

Though Davy showed his class during the race and in his comments immediately after winning.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/racing/davy-russell-dedicates-grand-national-success-to-former-cork-footballer-kieran-oconnor-915941.html

Kauto

Motivator wrote: »

I would say he is up there with the greats of jumps racing after that today. I don’t think ive ever actually backed him but i have to admit I wanted him to win jumping two out. it’s hard not to appreciate how good he is.

In my lifetime, I would count Kauto Star as being the best I’ve ever seen. He was classy, gutsy and great to watch. While Tiger Roll is a hugely different horse and has never appealed to me in the same way Kauto Star did - he could end up trumping his achievements. Tiger Roll is an absolute freak of a horse and I don’t think what he has achieved will ever be done again. That is why he will go down as one of the all time greats.

The horse as game and as good as he is, will not go down as one of the greats. It's an absolutely ridiculous comment.

longshotvalue

Kauto wrote: »

The horse as game and as good as he is, will not go down as one of the greats. It's an absolutely ridiculous comment.

:-0. I disagree he would certainly be one of the greats for me . There is more to nh racing the the gold cup and c hurdle . To win a 2m 4f graded hurdle beating a 151 rated hurdler on the bridle and then win the national again is nothing short to stunning .

munster87

Kauto wrote: »

The horse as game and as good as he is, will not go down as one of the greats. It's an absolutely ridiculous comment.

Ah no that’s harsh, far from a ridiculous comment.

Motivator

Kauto wrote: »

The horse as game and as good as he is, will not go down as one of the greats. It's an absolutely ridiculous comment.

Absolutely ridiculous in what way? How do you measure greatness?

No horse in my lifetime has achieved what he has and I doubt I’ll ever see it happen again. I’ve never been one to fawn over any of Gigginstown’s horses mainly because they’ve never had one that has dominated a particular division but it’s very difficult to get away from what he has achieved and he’s still only 9. Horses aren’t meant to do what he has done and I think his record settles the argument to be honest - however, you are entitled to your opinion.

IAMAMORON

I think everyone is underpraising the achievement of Gordon Elliott in this instance. The guy is awesome. He has come from nothing and has carved out his own career in racing. I remember first coming across his name when he started sending them over to Perth, just to get runs into his horses. What he has achieved since is phenomenal.

That pig that won the first race on Friday had not been competitive in over two years of racing. A nine year old heap of over the top crap.... In the space of a few months he has the connections in the winners enclosure at Aintree. It is no fluke whatsoever, Elliott is simply a very very talented horseman.

I would love to see him take on the flat for real. It would definitely shake it up.

paddy no 11

his national is a bit tainted by O'Leary stuffing the race with no hopers, plus he only carried 6 extra lbs due to compressing weights, didn't even have to do top weight and mightn't either next year if they enter something to keep him off top weight

He's stil lgreat though, but not in same league as Kauto

madmoose

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I think everyone is underpraising the achievement of Gordon Elliott in this instance. The guy is awesome. He has come from nothing and has carved out his own career in racing. I remember first coming across his name when he started sending them over to Perth, just to get runs into his horses. What he has achieved since is phenomenal.

That pig that won the first race on Friday had not been competitive in over two years of racing. A nine year old heap of over the top crap.... In the space of a few months he has the connections in the winners enclosure at Aintree. It is no fluke whatsoever, Elliott is simply a very very talented horseman.

I would love to see him take on the flat for real. It would definitely shake it up.

Unreal trainer and still only 40

jkbkhhho7t

Very good trainer elliott but there's no denying the majority of his big wins are because of the o'learys

NaiveMelodies

jkbkhhho7t wrote: »

Very good trainer elliott but there's no denying the majority of his big wins are because of the o'learys

How many Gigginstown horses had he when he won his first national?
No denying that he wasn't handed anything, proved himself as a top trainer and got the owners on board as a result.
Of all the owners, Gigginstown certainly don't give hand outs, and Elliott earned their support a million times over.


Kauto- the man with the in in every stable- thanks for the most bizarre judgement re Tiger Roll I'll ever hear. He is quite obviously one of the greats.

IAMAMORON

jkbkhhho7t wrote: »

Very good trainer elliott but there's no denying the majority of his big wins are because of the o'learys

Like when Dirar won the Ebor? - although Spencer gave him a peach.

Or when Siver Birch won his first national?

Cause of Causes?

The Three Muskateers ( AKA The PIG of the Century )

jkbkhhho7t

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Like when Dirar won the Ebor? - although Spencer gave him a peach.

Or when Siver Birch won his first national?

Cause of Causes?

The Three Muskateers ( AKA The PIG of the Century )

Grade 1's

IAMAMORON

jkbkhhho7t wrote: »

Grade 1's

I am not sure you are getting the point. The fact remains that he has trained winners at all the grades of racing. I know people that would give their right arm to train a winner on the Knavesmire or anywhere else.

Yes the O'Leary's have given him plenty of quality horses, however they can hardly complain about how he treated them.

If your insinuating that he would be nowhere without their money I would have to disagree.

I forgot Pallastor at Ascot last summer.

jkbkhhho7t

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I am not sure you are getting the point. The fact remains that he has trained winners at all the grades of racing. I know people that would give their right arm to train a winner on the Knavesmire or anywhere else.

Yes the O'Leary's have given him plenty of quality horses, however they can hardly complain about how he treated them.

If your insinuating that he would be nowhere without their money I would have to disagree.

I forgot Pallastor at Ascot last summer.

I've said he's very good but he owes the o'learys a lot that's all

RivetingRoger

Tiger Roll is THE best NH horse in training

Period

He is the best NH horse of a generation

He is a gift from the God's to racing fans

He is an icon

He is 100% a living breathing racing royalty legend

Nulty

jkbkhhho7t wrote: »

I've said he's very good but he owes the o'learys a lot that's all

Obviously.

Just had a look at all his Grade 1s

All of them Gigginstown except

Jessies Dream (2010)
Realt Mor (2013)
Mount Benbulben (2013)
Mega Fortune (2017)
Labaik (2017)
Fayonagh x2 (2017)
Mick Jazz (2017)
The Storyteller (2018)
Envoi Allen (2019)


80% of his Grade 1s have been for Gigginstown.

IAMAMORON

Dr. Bre wrote: »

They should aim him at a gold cup next year at this rate

On a line through Anibale Fly there is scope to this. However I still say he would need to improve about half a stone to be a genuine Gold Cup horse. Also he will be ten years of age next year, not many ten year olds have won it.

If he did stay in training and they considered entering him in a Gold Cup it would be class.

10 year old Gold Cup winners include

Cool Dawn
Dessie
Cool Ground
Cottage Rake

The argument would be over if he won a Gold Cup

akelly02

handsfree2 wrote: »

Envoi Allen is Gavin Cromwell

No he’s not

handsfree2

akelly02 wrote: »

No he’s not

Apologies got that wrong

EICVD

jacool wrote: »

And you'll still have O'Leary saying "if he started now, he still wouldn't win". Knows a lot about horses clearly.

He does but he knows more about sarcasm & how gullible the public are

EICVD

Kauto wrote: »

The horse as game and as good as he is, will not go down as one of the greats. It's an absolutely ridiculous comment.

This is a ridiculous comment. Red Rum is one of the greats, this little lad won back to back nationals as well as 4 Festival wins. The other national great has none so of course Tiger Roll is now one of the greats

EICVD

jkbkhhho7t wrote: »

Very good trainer elliott but there's no denying the majority of his big wins are because of the o'learys

Right so, same with every trainer then who has a powerful owner behind them

Panrich

jkbkhhho7t wrote: »

Very good trainer elliott but there's no denying the majority of his big wins are because of the o'learys

And the majority of Aidan O'Briens big wins are due to Coolmore. It doesn't mean that just anyone with a trainers licence would get the same results.

Gavin "shels"

Tiger Roll was just immense! Magic of Light ran a stormer and recovered ultimately well after the near fall.

Francie Barrett

Some people here have very short memories if they think Elliott has fallen into his current position by accident.

When Elliott got his first few Gigginstown horses 10 years ago or so, he wouldn't have even been in their top 5 of trainers, he might not even have been in their top 10 for that matter.

Secondly, people seem to forget that Gigginstown was a bit of a joke for a few years in the early to mid 10's in the period from when Mouse won them their first Gold Cup in 2006, to 2016 when Elliott won it the next time.

Elliott has clearly gotten to where he is today with Gigginstown because he has by far been their best trainer.

Motivator

Nulty wrote: »

Obviously.

Just had a look at all his Grade 1s

All of them Gigginstown except

Jessies Dream (2010)
Realt Mor (2013)
Mount Benbulben (2013)
Mega Fortune (2017)
Labaik (2017)
Fayonagh x2 (2017)
Mick Jazz (2017)
The Storyteller (2018)
Envoi Allen (2019)


80% of his Grade 1s have been for Gigginstown.

I don’t get your point here. So what if Gigginstown owns the vast majority of his Grade 1 winners? What difference does it make? He still has to train the horses to win competitive Grade 1 races. Now, often there 3 or 4 (often more) Gigginstown owned runners in these Grades races but that’s an argument for another day. How many bad horses has Gordon trained for O’Leary to win races? How many horses has Gordon had sent to him from other yards that he improves 2 stone within a year of joining him?

Gordon is the man. What he has achieved is nothing short of remarkable. Yeah he has the backing of O’Leary but that’s what makes it all the more impressive. If he didn’t get results then the horses would have been whipped out of the yard years ago. Look at Sandra Hughes, Mouse and Colm Murphy - they had success and still couldn’t please O’Leary. Gordon is a genius and it’s scary to think how big his operation will be in 10 years time. When the likes of Noel Meade and Willie retire nobody will be able to lay a glove on Gordon. Joseph O’ Brien is the only one with the resources available to compete.

WicklowBrave

I would say Gordon will end up in Ballydoyle but then I remember Aidan is not even 50. Gordon is phenomenal.

charolais0153

WicklowBrave wrote: »

I would say Gordon will end up in Ballydoyle but then I remember Aidan is not even 50. Gordon is phenomenal.

Ia there much to training a horse? Like what does it entail?

Shemale

Nulty wrote: »

Obviously.

Just had a look at all his Grade 1s

All of them Gigginstown except

Jessies Dream (2010)
Realt Mor (2013)
Mount Benbulben (2013)
Mega Fortune (2017)
Labaik (2017)
Fayonagh x2 (2017)
Mick Jazz (2017)
The Storyteller (2018)
Envoi Allen (2019)


80% of his Grade 1s have been for Gigginstown.

What percentage of his horses are Gigginstown I'd guess its around 80%, plus with them being Gigginstown, Gordon doesnt get to decide their races so you could argue that is a big negative given how shrewd he has been placing horses in the past.

Not directed at you but its ****ing tosh to say Elliot isnt all he is cracked up to be and he is lucky to have Gigginstown.

He is in the top three in the country, Mullins has had Ricci and O Brien has Coolmore, maybe they are lucky too, or, their main owners sent them horses because they werent doing bad..

WicklowBrave

charolais0153 wrote: »

Ia there much to training a horse? Like what does it entail?

Gallop them until they’re fit. The nuance is knowing how fit the horse is and how much fitter it can get.

idnkph

jkbkhhho7t wrote:

Very good trainer elliott but there's no denying the majority of his big wins are because of the o'learys

Silver Birch was the horse that put Elliot on the trainer's map and that was why gigginstown started giving him horses.
Elliot was a brilliant trainer from his 20's. That's how he earned getting the good horses.
Your comment is like saying Willie Mullins only gets big wins because of Ricci Rich.
Trainers don't get handed good horses for nothing you know.

4068ac1elhodqr

Paityn Noisy Street wrote: »

Quad Acca e/w (typically '41616/1'):

GNat: Rathvinden @12 6pl
Golf T: Connors@34 4pl
Golf M: Fleetwood@34 10pl
Europop: Netherlands^ @3 4pl

Safer simple 'either/or' market on GNat(PP):
'Either' Tiger or Rath to win this: @4.0

Small 602/1 treble (to win):
GNat: GenP (via Sky@51), Voice: Molly@2, Europop{^offset}: Swiss@6

GNat: Rathvinden @12 6pl - Placed
Golf T: Connors@34 4pl - Won
Golf M: Fleetwood@34 10pl - TBC (BP 31)
Europop: Netherlands^ @3 4pl - TBC (BP 2.75)

Safer simple 'either/or' market on GNat(PP):
'Either' Tiger or Rath to win this: @4.0 - Won

Small 602/1 treble (to win):
GNat: GenP (via Sky@51) - Fell
Voice: Molly@2 - Won
Europop{^offset}: Swiss@6 - BP 7.5

Think will stick with the Golf/Novelties, until the next 6pl (ScotGNat), as they don't tend to fall over as much.

Have also gone off Netherlands in the europop, instead a couple at 20-100/1 offer value in the 4pl, or for win only: Italia.

Prices for next years GNat are out (with NRNB included), but no sign of the wee Tiger making an appearance for another sequential win.

If you don't mind waiting a full year (and a bit), consider instead, Yang for POTUS20 @41.

damowill

Tiger Roll was again so impressive. Just wondering does anyone think he should of had a crack at the Gold Cup this year? Al Boum Photo is a good horse but beatable imo as are many of leading NH chasers at the moment.

Nulty

Motivator wrote: »

I don’t get your point here. So what if Gigginstown owns the vast majority of his Grade 1 winners? What difference does it make? He still has to train the horses to win competitive Grade 1 races. Now, often there 3 or 4 (often more) Gigginstown owned runners in these Grades races but that’s an argument for another day. How many bad horses has Gordon trained for O’Leary to win races? How many horses has Gordon had sent to him from other yards that he improves 2 stone within a year of joining him?

Gordon is the man. What he has achieved is nothing short of remarkable. Yeah he has the backing of O’Leary but that’s what makes it all the more impressive. If he didn’t get results then the horses would have been whipped out of the yard years ago. Look at Sandra Hughes, Mouse and Colm Murphy - they had success and still couldn’t please O’Leary. Gordon is a genius and it’s scary to think how big his operation will be in 10 years time. When the likes of Noel Meade and Willie retire nobody will be able to lay a glove on Gordon. Joseph O’ Brien is the only one with the resources available to compete.

I'm not making a point. I'm just providing facts. It's interesting.