ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

Blueshoe

Calhoun wrote: »

It will be an interesting few days alright, if something should happen to her id say the government will come under fire in some quarters.

She will be welcomed home and will surely become a productive member of society. Post haste!

Calhoun

jmreire wrote: »

Yes of course, the usual hand wringer's. But secretly....they would breathe a sigh of relief. And hold it up as an example to anyone considering joining isis ( or any other organization) of what can happen if you take a similar path.

Like with most countries it would be easier for the powers that be if they just disappeared over there.

If she does come back and nothing happens there will be a few issues societally.

jmreire

Calhoun wrote: »

Like with most countries it would be easier for the powers that be if they just disappeared over there.

If she does come back and nothing happens there will be a few issues societally.

Sure it would, but now, the refusal of Country' to bring home their isis fighters ( all 8'000 ) is blowing up in their collective faces.....if they have escaped (lots of storys so far ) and managed to regroup, then they will have to be fought all over again.

With Lisa, I don't think that it's going to happen like that if she comes home...Govt have said that she is currently being investigated for possible terrorist activities under the 2005 prevention of terrorist act., and will be held on arrival in connection with these investigations.

blueshade

jmreire wrote: »

Sure it would, but now, the refusal of Country' to bring home their isis fighters ( all 8'000 ) is blowing up in their collective faces.....if they have escaped (lots of storys so far ) and managed to regroup, then they will have to be fought all over again.

With Lisa, I don't think that it's going to happen like that if she comes home...Govt have said that she is currently being investigated for possible terrorist activities under the 2005 prevention of terrorist act., and will be held on arrival in connection with these investigations.

If she arrives back here she will get away scot free. We might not even know that she's been brought back. The only reason we know her name is because her husband was killed and she and her child were detained in a camp. If her husband hadn't been killed we'd never have heard of her and she'd be happily killing maiming and torturing people while her husband and his buddies raped women and children and sold them into slavery.

None of these women in those camps wanted to come back to their home countries until their husbands were killed or imprisoned and they found themselves stuck in camps. They will always be a threat and a magnet. Monitoring them will cost a fortune and she and her child will be a security risk and a financial burden for life. That child will have been fed a diet of hatred and extremism.

1o059k7ewrqj3n

blueshade wrote: »

If she arrives back here she will get away scot free. We might not even know that she's been brought back. The only reason we know her name is because her husband was killed and she and her child were detained in a camp. If her husband hadn't been killed we'd never have heard of her and she'd be happily killing maiming and torturing people while her husband and his buddies raped women and children and sold them into slavery.

None of these women in those camps wanted to come back to their home countries until their husbands were killed or imprisoned and they found themselves stuck in camps. They will always be a threat and a magnet. Monitoring them will cost a fortune and she and her child will be a security risk and a financial burden for life. That child will have been fed a diet of hatred and extremism.

Absolutely essential that if Smith comes back to Ireland, or any other fighter/member or anyone associated with militant Islamic fundamentalism, that they be questioned and monitored. They need to be interrogated. They possess a wealth of information. The idea that anyone can just move back and face zero consequences or questioning is madness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr-pnugzCEM

Skip to 4:14 in this video. This is Sam Najjair, who is from Dublin and went to fight against Gaddafi and the government of Libya. After the fall of Tripoli, he went to Syria, and passed on his experience to those opposing Assad and the government of Syria. He was a sort of "military advisor". I don't know if he was ever questioned by anyone in Ireland.

Najjair had zero military experience before going to Libya, he wasn't in any military. Smith has extensive training - men might not take orders from her or follow her training, but women would. Even if it's not how to fire a weapon or pack an explosive charge, it's networks, knowing people.

jmreire

I dont think that Lisa will be running around free and easy, if she makes it back, If charged and fund guilty of the Terrorist act 2005, she faces 10 years in prison,
From the Irish Times a few days ago:
The Garda has confirmed Dundalk woman Lisa Smith is under criminal investigation for terrorist offences and will be questioned if she returns to Ireland.

Ms Smith (38), who travelled to join the Islamic State, also known as Isis, in Syria, is being held, along with her two-year-old daughter, in the al-Hawl displacement camp in Syria for the wives and children of Isis fighters.

On Thursday a Garda spokesman confirmed an investigation is ongoing into the former Defence Forces member in relation to suspected offences under the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) Act, 2005.

Gardaí have been gathering evidence on Ms Smith’s activities in Ireland and abroad. A file is being prepared for the Director of Public Prosecutions, which will decide if she can be charged under the 2005 Act.

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has previously said Ms Smith would face vetting and investigation if she returns to Ireland, but Thursday’s statement from the Garda is the first official confirmation that a criminal investigation is already ongoing.

The Irish Times view on Lisa Smith: bring her home
How we deal with Lisa Smith will tell us something about ourselves
Ireland ‘engaging with international actors’ to help bring Lisa Smith home, says Flanagan
Ms Smith moved to Syria, via Tunisia, in 2015 shortly after leaving the Air Corps, where she worked as a flight attendant on the Government jet and as a driver to senior officers. She also served for a time with the Army as part of the 27th Infantry Battalion.

The 2005 Act states that legislation prohibiting membership of domestic terrorist groups such as the IRA also applies to foreign terrorist groups, even if their crimes do not take place on Irish soil.

The Department of Justice has previously stated that “by its nature and actions, Isis clearly qualifies as a ‘terrorist group’ involved in ’terrorist activity’ or ‘terrorist-linked activity’, all as defined in section 4 of the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) Act, 2005, by reference to the EU framework decision on combating terrorism”.

The offence of membership of a terrorist group carries a maximum term of 10 years in prison.

mynamejeff

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/location-of-lisa-smith-and-child-unknown-as-fighting-continues-in-syria-1.4050119


She she is gone missing now and could be anywhere ,

nothing in the world to stop her sneaking back into Ireland using a fake name , make up any story she likes even claiming to be a victim of isis and blend into the existing Muslim community here no real questions asked . wouldn't be long before she starts to spread her beliefs. no checks no fingerprints or photos taken not even access by local police to DP centers.

one of the basic problems in our asylum industry the political incompetence that fails to protect us as a country

Galwayguy35

Was watching Claire Byrne Live last night and there was a bit about Lisa Smith and this fella from Belarus who for some odd reason got Irish citizenship.

Claire was getting all stressed that Lisa and her kid were gone missing and said that the government would let both her and the kid and the kids of the guy from Belarus back if they asked.

Now I get that Smith was born here and if she wanted to come back there isn't much can be done about it but this but this other lad and his mini terrorists should be kept out.

end of the road

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Was watching Claire Byrne Live last night and there was a bit about Lisa Smith and this fella from Belarus who for some odd reason got Irish citizenship.

Claire was getting all stressed that Lisa and her kid were gone missing and said that the government would let both her and the kid and the kids of the guy from Belarus back if they asked.

Now I get that Smith was born here and if she wanted to come back there isn't much can be done about it but this but this other lad and his mini terrorists should be kept out.

what minny terrorists are you on about?
i hope you aren't suggesting that children of someone who is a terrorist is automatically a terrorist themselves by virtue of being born to a parent who is?

Galwayguy35

end of the road wrote: »

what minny terrorists are you on about?
i hope you aren't suggesting that children of someone who is a terrorist is automatically a terrorist themselves by virtue of being born to a parent who is?

Well yeah that's exactly what I'm saying and there are Isis videos of 10 year olds shooting kneeling prisoners in the head.

end of the road

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Well yeah that's exactly what I'm saying. and there are Isis videos of 10 year olds shooting kneeling prisoners in the head.

yes there are, and it's horific stuff. however it does not show that children born to terrorist parents are automatically, or guaranteed to be terrorists simply because they were born to terrorist parents.
it shows that children can end up being as such if brainwashed and trained up and forced to commit terrorist acts, however even then it is against international law to be using children as anything in any sort of conflict. especially when that organisation using such children isn't even legally recognized as anything other then terrorists.
so, have the children of the belarusian guy committed terrorist acts themselves? and if so what acts? where and when?

recedite

end of the road wrote: »

it shows that children can end up being as such if brainwashed and trained up..

Born in Islamic State, to parents actively involved in the project, then following the defeat of IS, transferred to special camps containing only IS people, where the same ideas and values were kept alive. Reared without ever knowing anything else.

Would that qualify as brainwashing?

Galwayguy35

end of the road wrote: »

yes there are, and it's horific stuff. however it does not show that children born to terrorist parents are automatically, or guaranteed to be terrorists simply because they were born to terrorist parents.
it shows that children can end up being as such if brainwashed and trained up and forced to commit terrorist acts, however even then it is against international law to be using children as anything in any sort of conflict. especially when that organisation using such children isn't even legally recognized as anything other then terrorists.
so, have the children of the belarusian guy committed terrorist acts themselves? and if so what acts? where and when?

That's why we should not let them back in, they are brainwashed since birth.

He's not even Irish anyway, person who approved his citizenship should be fired and his citizenship should be revoked.

Varadkar would do well to remember that this guy and Lisa Smiths late husband would throw him of the nearest building if they got their hands on him because of his sexuality.

end of the road

recedite wrote: »

Born in Islamic State, to parents actively involved in the project, then following the defeat of IS, transferred to special camps containing only IS people, where the same ideas and values were kept alive. Reared without ever knowing anything else.

Would that qualify as brainwashing?

absolutely. they are being brainwashed into an ideology that is incompatible with anything and everything possible.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

That's why we should not let them back in, they are brainwashed since birth.

if irish born we have no option but to let them back in whether we want them or not. they will be forced here anyway, so it will be much easier for it to happen on our terms then them to be forced upon us.
also, brainwashed as they might be, it's no guarantee of them automatically being a threat as long as they are got in time.
you also still haven't answered my question of what terrorist acts they have committed, where and when those acts were committed.
so i am assuming, on the basis of your lack of an answer, and my inability to find anything myself, that the answer is that they haven't committed any terrorist acts?

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

He's not even Irish anyway, person who approved his citizenship should be fired and his citizenship should be revoked.

yeah, he shouldn't as he wasn't born here. i have no issue with that tbh.
unless it can be proven that this person who approved his citizenship was absolutely aware that this individual was a threat and still approved it anyway, which i have found nothing to say that this is the case, what grounds should they be fired on?

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Varadkar would do well to remember that this guy and Lisa Smiths late husband would throw him of the nearest building if they got their hands on him because of his sexuality.

that's ultimately irrelevant.
throwing gays of buildings is illegal in ireland quite rightly. also quite rightly, there is more or less no support for such actions, so little to no chance of them ever becoming legal either.

jmreire

end of the road wrote: »

yes there are, and it's horific stuff. however it does not show that children born to terrorist parents are automatically, or guaranteed to be terrorists simply because they were born to terrorist parents.
it shows that children can end up being as such if brainwashed and trained up and forced to commit terrorist acts, however even then it is against international law to be using children as anything in any sort of conflict. especially when that organisation using such children isn't even legally recognized as anything other then terrorists.
so, have the children of the belarusian guy committed terrorist acts themselves? and if so what acts? where and when?[/Q

If isis were still up and running, and the caliphate operational, guaranteed, each and every child would know nothing else except how to become a martyr. Even in Al Hawl camp, they were called " Cubs of the Lion", and one of them even managed to climb on to the roof of a building and hang an isis flag from the roof. But even with the caliphate dismantled, isis family's will bring their children up as isis. In Islamic Family's, the Father is boss, and what he says goes, regardless of what the kid learns outside of the Family ( say here in Ireland. The children will follow their Father, as an example, look at Bin Laden's son ( one of them so far ) followed his Fathers footsteps. Basically, what they learn at home as kids, is what shapes them as adult's. And if the Father happened to have been killed ( martyered ) by the unbelievers or the new crusaders as they will be told, the children will neither forgive or forget. Remember the saying about the Jesuits? " Give us the child of 7, and we will give you back the Man...and he will be Jesuit. As for the concept we in the west have, "Innocent until proven guilty " that carry's no weight whatsoever with isis / al-quaeda etc.

end of the road

jmreire wrote: »

end of the road wrote: »

yes there are, and it's horific stuff. however it does not show that children born to terrorist parents are automatically, or guaranteed to be terrorists simply because they were born to terrorist parents.
it shows that children can end up being as such if brainwashed and trained up and forced to commit terrorist acts, however even then it is against international law to be using children as anything in any sort of conflict. especially when that organisation using such children isn't even legally recognized as anything other then terrorists.
so, have the children of the belarusian guy committed terrorist acts themselves? and if so what acts? where and when?[/Q

If isis were still up and running, and the caliphate operational, guaranteed, each and every child would know nothing else except how to become a martyr. Even in Al Hawl camp, they were called " Cubs of the Lion", and one of them even managed to climb on to the roof of a building and hang an isis flag from the roof. But even with the caliphate dismantled, isis family's will bring their children up as isis. In Islamic Family's, the Father is boss, and what he says goes, regardless of what the kid learns outside of the Family ( say here in Ireland. The children will follow their Father, as an example, look at Bin Laden's son ( one of them so far ) followed his Fathers footsteps. Basically, what they learn at home as kids, is what shapes them as adult's. And if the Father happened to have been killed ( martyered ) by the unbelievers or the new crusaders as they will be told, the children will neither forgive or forget. Remember the saying about the Jesuits? " Give us the child of 7, and we will give you back the Man...and he will be Jesuit. As for the concept we in the west have, "Innocent until proven guilty " that carry's no weight whatsoever with isis / al-quaeda etc.

in fairness the only thing that should be based on what isis thinks is their complete dismantling.
the fact they don't like the western way of doing things is exactly why we should, and must continue doing things the western way.

jmreire

The only real answer to isis and other extremist Islamic groupings, will have to come from within Islam itself. They have to identify and expel war mongering Imam's, who are preaching extreme version's of Islam. These people are the root cause of all the Islamic violence taking place throughout the World today.

Danzy

jmreire wrote: »

The only real answer to isis and other extremist Islamic groupings, will have to come from within Islam itself. They have to identify and expel war mongering Imam's, who are preaching extreme version's of Islam. These people are the root cause of all the Islamic violence taking place throughout the World today.

What you are calling for is a remaking of Islam.

Al Azhar University, the leading authority on Sunni Islam for a 1000 years + stated that Isis could be called terrorists but not heretics as they strictly follow Islam.
I have forwarded your posts on so they can amend their long record of error.

jmreire

Danzy wrote: »

What you are calling for is a remaking of Islam.

Al Azhar University, the leading authority on Sunni Islam for a 1000 years + stated that Isis could be called terrorists but not heretics as they strictly follow Islam.
I have forwarded your posts on so they can amend their long record of error.

Yes, that's true, and that's what the problem is...when isis spokesmen were questioned about their atrocious activities, they simply held up a copy of the Quoran and showed the relevant passages, justifying their activities,, so they cannot be called heretic's.
BUT: Why do some Imam's preach violence and some preach Peace?? In fact the majority preach Peace, ( if it was the other way round, the World would have gone up in flames long ago)
I once worked with a Wahabbi Muslim....grand lad, and he explained to me how it works with the Quoran, everything a man want's is provided for in the Quoran. You need justification for war? Yes, it's there, Peace? Of course, that's there too...and everything in between. So they are free to choose, and Imam's who preach death and destruction should be removed from Mosques where they preach, and ordinary Muslim's attending the Mosques have the power to do this.

blueshade

jmreire wrote: »

Yes, that's true, and that's what the problem is...when isis spokesmen were questioned about their atrocious activities, they simply held up a copy of the Quoran and showed the relevant passages, justifying their activities,, so they cannot be called heretic's.
BUT: Why do some Imam's preach violence and some preach Peace?? In fact the majority preach Peace, ( if it was the other way round, the World would have gone up in flames long ago)
I once worked with a Wahabbi Muslim....grand lad, and he explained to me how it works with the Quoran, everything a man want's is provided for in the Quoran. You need justification for war? Yes, it's there, Peace? Of course, that's there too...and everything in between. So they are free to choose, and Imam's who preach death and destruction should be removed from Mosques where they preach, and ordinary Muslim's attending the Mosques have the power to do this.

As far as I can tell, it comes down to the interpretation of the Koran. Some will see it in a more fundamental and literal/extremist way others less so. So, if a Muslim is looking for a fire and brimstone Mosque that believes in treating women like property and second class citizens and believes in death for apostates, LGBTQ people and all the other particularly nasty stuff, then they will go to a Mosque that preaches that stuff. If not they'll go to a Mosque that's less extreme.

Signore Fancy Pants

Apparently, Lisa Smith is being held by Syrian rebels in a "Safe House" along the northern Syria border.

Blueshoe

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Apparently, Lisa Smith is being held by Syrian rebels in a "Safe House" along the northern Syria border.

Hopefully they keep her. I call dibs on the free house she would have gotten here

Signore Fancy Pants

Blueshoe wrote: »

Hopefully they keep her. I call dibs on the free house she would have gotten here

Well, she most likely will be coming home and soon.

Blueshoe

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Well, she most likely will be coming home and soon.

Oh. Sad to hear that.
Lots of people complaining about Trump because Isis members escaped prison due to Turkey being aholes. While here in Ireland we are inviting them back into the country.
Some Circus we have going on

recedite

It seems she has made it to the Turkish lines and was picked up by the Syrian National Army (Turkish).
Its a pity the Syrian Arab Army (the official Syrian army) didn't get hold of her.
Looks like Varadkar has decided to send her some travel documents, seeing as she burned her Irish passport. The Turks will make sure she gets these, and she'll be back here in jig time.
They are mentioning 2 days of debriefing/imprisonment awaits in Dublin.


I doubt anything will come of the 2005 terrorism act. Nobody has ever been convicted of that for activities abroad, but some jihadis have returned and been placed on a watchlist.


https://www.thesun.ie/news/4666041/department-foreign-affairs-lisa-smith-travel-documents/

emo72

end of the road wrote: »

however even then it is against international law to be using children as anything in any sort of conflict.

International law? Why didn't someone mention it to Isis before? Send them a letter pointing out out to them, they might stop acting the maggot.

Blueshoe

emo72 wrote: »

International law? Why didn't someone mention it to Isis before? Send them a letter pointing out out to them, they might stop acting the maggot.

They are not an army. They are an ideology. They can never be totally defeated. Lone wolf attacks will only increase in Europe as fighters and those who agree with Islamic hardliners continue to come here along with normal refugees in need.
Part and parcel

tuxy

Blueshoe wrote: »

Oh. Sad to hear that.
Lots of people complaining about Trump because Isis members escaped prison due to Turkey being aholes. While here in Ireland we are inviting them back into the country.
Some Circus we have going on

If she makes it to Turkey we can't force them to keep her and we can't make her stateless so what other legal option is there?

SexBobomb

Her late late show interview should be good.

Blueshoe

tuxy wrote: »

If she makes it to Turkey we can't force them to keep her and we can't make her stateless so what other legal option is there?

Small island off the coast. Food drops once a month.