ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

end of the road

Danzy wrote: »

Her crimes against humanity, at the least helping others commit them, were against Syrians and Iraqis mostly, they should have the right to exact justice on her and those like her.

While upon her return she will be free to target people here, she will also be free to recruit and fund Jihadis to fight in Syria.
So their executing her is in their own long term interest not just ours. Here she will have a few years in jail at most.

I don't mind who gets her as long as they kill her.

No fan of Assad, he is brutal and murderous but probably the least bad option.

Certainly more moderate than most there.

I'd have no problem with her coming back if it meant a life time in solitary confinement, that will not happen though.

More likely she will appear on the Late Late Show.

iraq and syria are not being prevented from putting isis members on trial.

however we don't have the right to expect or force them to do it if they choose not to do so.

malinheader wrote: »

The day you leave to join a group and help them in any small way to Murder innocent people, Torture innocent people, slaughter women and children, have no respect for life, rape and marry underage girls and also think the people in the countries you have just left should become to the same fate.
That's the day you lose any rights or expect help from the country you left in my eyes.

only the right to freedom can be given up if one is found guilty of a crime. other then that, rights can't be given up as otherwise we could all have our rights taken away from us for any old reason.

JPCN1

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Many of the sentiments expressed here are ones that are so against the 'Western Values' ya'll seem to want to protect that they could be out of any fundamentalist handbook.

The fact is we do grant people rights. We do not - or should not - revoke those rights because we disagree with people's actions. To do so would be the actions of a Totalitarian regime and against everything the 'West' claims to stand for. It makes us the same as them.

If Irish people (I am specifically talking about those who are Irish born - not naturalized and/or dual citizenship which is a slightly different case) have committed a crime under Irish law they should be tried under Irish law - In Ireland. If they have committed a crime in a foreign jurisdiction they should be tried there but this does not - and should not - strip them of their Irish citizenship - or deny them the right to return.

We had no issue letting people who fought in the Spanish Civil War back in - not even those who fought for Franco's Fascists. They were not stripped of their citizenship.

Would people here also advocate that any Irish Jews who fight for Israel be stripped of their citizenship keeping in mind that the U.N has stated that Israelis are illegally occupying Gaza?

She eschewed 'Western Values' so let her be judged by those values she took up. Give her to the Syrians to judge.

Boggles

JPCN1 wrote: »

Give her to the Syrians to judge.

Assad?

Who apparently emptied his own prisons of ISIS fighters to delegitimize the uprising.

That would probably be the most dangerous thing they could do.

Danzy

For the Kurds at al, it is politically toxic to be killing westerners, as much as they know it is the just course.

They are not choosing to have sympathy for people who fought for their genocide and sex slavery.

end of the road

Gatling wrote: »

You always seem to ignore basic facts she has Bangladeshi citizenship by virtue of her parents being Bangladeshi born - this is fact ,she also has 3 years to extend her citizenship ,so yeah facts say she was stripped of her UK citizenship rights ,and she's Bangladeshi

i will take the word of the bangladeshi authorities over britain any day.

JPCN1 wrote: »

She eschewed 'Western Values' so let her be judged by those values she took up. Give her to the Syrians to judge.

have the syrians expressed any interest in having her, or is it a case of forcing her upon them against their will?

Danzy

Boggles wrote: »

Assad?

Who apparently emptied his own prisons of ISIS fighters to delegitimize the uprising.

That would probably be the most dangerous thing they could do.

You can see the logic in it for him, it is the only reason he survived.

Boggles

Danzy wrote: »

For the Kurds at al, it is politically toxic to be killing westerners, as much as they know it is the just course.

It's toxic for them to be killing anyone, so they have removed the death penalty.

They will have to live there long after they have been used and abandoned, so they are on a process of reconciliation.

They let 300 "isis members" go last week as a sign of good will to their Arab "friends".

Boggles

Danzy wrote: »

You can see the logic in it for him, it is the only reason he survived.

The only reason he survived was he owes Billions to Putin.

Putin used it to get a foothold in the region.

Also to be fair to Assad he is not your common thug dictator.

He is a London educated Doctor.

malinheader

Boggles wrote: »

Like Begum?

Yes. And rightly so.

Boggles

malinheader wrote: »

Yes. And rightly so.

It's right she was groomed, raped and made a child bride?

Okey Dokey then.

What were you giving out about for so?

malinheader

end of the road wrote: »

iraq and syria are not being prevented from putting isis members on trial.

however we don't have the right to expect or force them to do it if they choose not to do so.





only the right to freedom can be given up if one is found guilty of a crime. other then that, rights can't be given up as otherwise we could all have our rights taken away from us for any old reason.

In my opinion. The day she decided to join a bunch of physcopathic murders is the day she became guilty in my eyes.

malinheader

Boggles wrote: »

It's right she was groomed, raped and made a child bride?

Okey Dokey then.

What were you giving out about for so?

Groomed and raped. Your imagination not mine.
She went over of her free accord and married willingly.
Soon as things are not going to well she wants home. End of.
Not giving out just trying to make sense why you would want someone who thinks decapitating is normal, Manchester was justified and so on back into society maybe.

Bannasidhe

Danzy wrote: »

An enforcement of law already common across Europe,
without favour but especially without fear would be enough.

That would see a violent reaction though and be called a racist.
If centres of worship where material calling for violence were closed, where hate preachers spoke were closed, it would see up to half of Mosques being closed.

While I would lean to supporting the Republic in Spain, It reasonable to presume if it would have fallen to the Communists and Anarchists and been no different after a few years to Franco for the average person.

What law exactly do you wish to see enforced across Europe?
Europe is not currently a federal union so laws differ across the different member states.
It is also illegal to make a person officially stateless.
What do you suppose should be done with people who have only one citizenship and that is of an E.U. member state? Do you wish Europe to unilaterally act illegally?
If so then again - you are calling for the destruction of the civil rights based ideology that is the very basis of Western Values.

Firstly, not all Mosques are radical, secondly radical Mosques are not the only places Hate Speech comes from... do we allow those whose hate stems from a political or extreme Christian or Zionist ideology to continue and only censor Islamic extremists?


As for Spain - maybe do some research. Franco led a revolt against an elected Socialist government - not communist or anarchist - and won with the backing of Nazi Germany. Meaning those who joined the Irish Brigade did so in support of a fascist attempt to overturn an elected government in support of an unelected totalitarian regime. And still they were allowed home.

Patrick2010

Cut out this grooming crap, the likes of Lisa Smith knew exactly the kind of organization she was joining. Throw gays off high buildings, kill Shia muslims who are the wrong type of muslins, kill and keep as sex slaves the yazidizs

malinheader

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Cut out this grooming crap, the likes of Lisa Smith knew exactly the kind of organization she was joining. Throw gays off high buildings, kill Shia muslims who are the wrong type of muslins, kill and keep as sex slaves the yazidizs

Sorry to say but you might find a couple of posters on here will say that the friend who gave lisa Smith the Koran groomed her.
You just have to wonder what there real objectives are in wanting them back.

end of the road

malinheader wrote: »

Groomed and raped. Your imagination not mine.

no, simply fact. she was under the age of consent, so if she had sex with her "husband" when she left and joined isis in syria, it was rape.

malinheader wrote: »

She went over of her free accord and married willingly.
Soon as things are not going to well she wants home. End of.
Not giving out just trying to make sense why you would want someone who thinks decapitating is normal, Manchester was justified and so on back into society maybe.

she was under the legal age to get married. therefore she didn't marry. there is no marriage. she could not willingly marry. her so-called marriage will not be recognised.

malinheader

end of the road wrote: »

no, simply fact. she was under the age of consent, so if she had sex with her "husband" when she left and joined isis in syria, it was rape.



she was under the legal age to get married. therefore she didn't marry. there is no marriage. she could not willingly marry. her so-called marriage will not be recognised.

It was all recognised by the religion and group she wanted to be part of.She was well aware of what lay ahead.
What about any murders or atrocities she might of been involved in and probably helped to be successful. Will these not be recognised either.

Bannasidhe

malinheader wrote: »

Sorry to say but you might find a couple of posters on here will say that the friend who gave lisa Smith the Koran groomed her.
You just have to wonder what there real objectives are in wanting them back.

I can tell you exactly what my motivation is in saying Lisa Smith should be allowed back.

It is the preservation of the principles of civil rights and Western Values that the likes of ISIS are so intent on destroying.

Lisa Smith is an Irish Citizen.
She has the right to reside in her native country and to strip her of that right is to a)act illegally and b) ignore the principles upon which Western Civilisation is founded.

We have allowed those who have committed multiple rapes of children to retain their citizenship.
We have allowed those who took part in foreign conflicts to retain their citzenship. Including ex Irish military personal who work as mercenaries in the Middle East.
We have allowed those who committed appalling acts of terrorism to retain their citizenship.

But now we must, apparently, deny this woman what we have granted others because ....

I think she should be allowed back because I have Western Values and I believe they are worth fighting for - not dismissing them when it suits as that is exactly how the likes of ISIS act. Ignore the laws when it suits.

I do not believe in destroying the village to save the village - that way all you have is a destroyed village and it matters not a whit how it was destroyed or who destroyed it. It's still gone.

dermo888

malinheader wrote: »

Sorry to say but you might find a couple of posters on here will say that the friend who gave lisa Smith the Koran groomed her.
You just have to wonder what there real objectives are in wanting them back.

The welfare state and bleeding heart and pity industry cannot risk writing off its own existence. Therefore, it will choose to try and maintain the dregs of society when they should be told 'its sink or swim'.

malinheader

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I can tell you exactly what my motivation is in saying Lisa Smith should be allowed back.

It is the preservation of the principles of civil rights and Western Values that the likes of ISIS are so intent on destroying.

Lisa Smith is an Irish Citizen.
She has the right to reside in her native country and to strip her of that right is to a)act illegally and b) ignore the principles upon which Western Civilisation is founded.

We have allowed those who have committed multiple rapes of children to retain their citizenship.
We have allowed those who took part in foreign conflicts to retain their citzenship. Including ex Irish military personal who work as mercenaries in the Middle East.
We have allowed those who committed appalling acts of terrorism to retain their citizenship.

But now we must, apparently, deny this woman what we have granted others because ....

I think she should be allowed back because I have Western Values and I believe they are worth fighting for - not dismissing them when it suits as that is exactly how the likes of ISIS act. Ignore the laws when it suits.

I do not believe in destroying the village to save the village - that way all you have is a destroyed village and it matters not a whit how it was destroyed or who destroyed it. It's still gone.

Well I don't think she should.
And unless some of these western values you are talking about are tightened up on I don't hold out to much hope for western values surviving.
I have already stated where these kind of scumbags are concerned Europe is seen as a soft touch.

Bannasidhe

malinheader wrote: »

Well I don't think she should.
And unless some of these western values you are talking about are tightened up on I don't hold out to much hope for western values surviving.
I have already stated where these kind of scumbags are concerned Europe is seen as a soft touch.

And that attitude is more of a threat to Europe than a silly bint who thought the restrictions built into Islam provides some form of purer lifestyle.

Give me a 'soft touch' over a totalitarian regime that ignores laws when it suits any day.

wobatkicker23

Nevermind ISIS fighters, no money hungry, morally bankrupt primary school teacher who opted to benefit from the human rights atrocities taking place in Dubai should be left back into the country.

dermo888

Sorry Bannasidhe, experience shows that radical Islam flourishes where a liberal soft touch regime is applied. You need an extensive security apparatus to keep an eye on them. Thats the reason why Anjem Choudhary and Captain Hook were kept where they were - free, and able to speak openly. You could see who was listening, attending and who could be influenced. Better to have them out in the open talking, than talking hidden.

When they're no longer of any use, you round them up, beat seven shades of Schweppes out of them and apply extrajudicial measures. Personally, I'd like those measures to be tested out on the skanger community first, and then on the Tyrellstown Pesties element.

malinheader

Bannasidhe wrote: »

And that attitude is more of a threat to Europe than a silly bint who thought the restrictions built into Islam provides some form of purer lifestyle.

Give me a 'soft touch' over a totalitarian regime that ignores laws when it suits any day.

So if they are let back what course of action should be taken against them do you suggest.
And what would you like to see happen to them personally.

Bannasidhe

dermo888 wrote: »

Sorry Bannasidhe, experience shows that radical Islam flourishes where a liberal soft touch regime is applied. You need an extensive security apparatus to keep an eye on them. Thats the reason why Anjem Choudhary and Captain Hook were kept where they were - free, and able to speak openly. You could see who was listening, attending and who could be influenced. Better to have them out in the open talking, than talking hidden.

When they're no longer of any use, you round them up, beat seven shades of Schweppes out of them and apply extrajudicial measures. Personally, I'd like those measures to be tested out on the skanger community first, and then on the Tyrellstown Pesties element.

Experience shows that once a State starts employing extrajudicial measures against anyone perceived as a threat than the list of who and what constitutes a threat grows exponentially.

Before you know it any criticism of any state policy results in people disappearing.

I do not accept that the way to combat fundamentalism is to embrace totalitarianism.
They are two side of the same coin.

Lot of very fascist sentiments being expressed in this thread.

That s*it already nearly destroyed Europe and cost millions of lives.
Strange how fast people are rushing to embrace it - are you all so sure you would be safe?

Bannasidhe

malinheader wrote: »

So if they are let back what course of action should be taken against them do you suggest.
And what would you like to see happen to them personally.

If they are accused of committing a crime under Irish law they should be tried.
If they are accused of war crimes they should be tried in the Hague.

I am sure if they are deemed a threat to the State they will be monitored - as they should be. Same as any potential terrorist - and we have a few of those already here who claim to be republicans.

Galwayguy35

If she comes back she should be watched very carefully, like it or not she was Irish born but this Russian fella is a different story, let him go back to his own country.

I think we need to invest more money and resources in our intelligence services though, most of the time it's MI6 who seem to be giving us the heads up about suspects in our own back yard.

malinheader

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If they are accused of committing a crime under Irish law they should be tried.
If they are accused of war crimes they should be tried in the Hague.

I am sure if they are deemed a threat to the State they will be monitored - as they should be. Same as any potential terrorist - and we have a few of those already here who claim to be republicans.

First. How are we going to find out what they have done.
Secondly. Monitoring them,are you seriously telling me you think this is going to work or even a punishment.
Thirdly. They land back with probably nothing so you expect good old Johnny tax payer to get the tab for their holiday.
Well no Thanks whatever you think this definitely doesn't work for me.

malinheader

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Experience shows that once a State starts employing extrajudicial measures against anyone perceived as a threat than the list of who and what constitutes a threat grows exponentially.

Before you know it any criticism of any state policy results in people disappearing.

I do not accept that the way to combat fundamentalism is to embrace totalitarianism.
They are two side of the same coin.

Lot of very fascist sentiments being expressed in this thread.

That s*it already nearly destroyed Europe and cost millions of lives.
Strange how fast people are rushing to embrace it - are you all so sure you would be safe?

Your seriously asking if we would be safe and you think we should let people back onto our country who's goal is to wipe us out.

end of the road

malinheader wrote: »

It was all recognised by the religion and group she wanted to be part of.

i don't care. there is no marriage.

malinheader wrote: »

She was well aware of what lay ahead.

sure, but it doesn't change the facts about whether she indured rape if she had sex with her so-called "husband" at 15, and the legality of her so-called marriage.

malinheader wrote: »

What about any murders or atrocities she might of been involved in and probably helped to be successful. Will these not be recognised either.

of course they would be recognized. why wouldn't they be recognized?