ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

malinheader

end of the road wrote: »

i don't care. there is no marriage.



sure, but it doesn't change the facts about whether she indured rape if she had sex with her so-called "husband" at 15, and the legality of her so-called marriage.



of course they would be recognized. why wouldn't they be recognized?

Nice to be able to pick and choose what you want to be recognised.
She's a ISIS scumbag who got what she deserved.

Bannasidhe

malinheader wrote: »

First. How are we going to find out what they have done.
Secondly. Monitoring them,are you seriously telling me you think this is going to work or even a punishment.
Thirdly. They land back with probably nothing so you expect good old Johnny tax payer to get the tab for their holiday.
Well no Thanks whatever you think this definitely doesn't work for me.

Then we throw our entire legal system out the window and decide that because a person might have done something we punish them?
Where exactly does that slippery slope end?

We, as a State, have been monitoring potential terrorists since our inception. We do need more resources as seems to be there are a few fascists who are a threat to 'our way of life' who need close watching.

Lisa Smith paid her taxes and her PRSI. She is as entitled to claim S.W as every other Irish citizen - you included. But she will probably not qualify due to the residency rule. Same as many a returned emigrant - including those who were illegal in the U.S.

It's not what I think. It's the foundation of Western societies than many many people died to create - a society you benefit from while dismissing it as soft and calling for it to be tightened up.

If this tightening up you wish for happened do you thing Boards would exist as a venue for you to voice your anti-democratic views?

malinheader

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Then we throw our entire legal system out the window and decide that because a person might have done something we punish them?
Where exactly does that slippery slope end?

We, as a State, have been monitoring potential terrorists since our inception. We do need more resources as seems to be there are a few fascists who are a threat to 'our way of life' who need close watching.

Lisa Smith paid her taxes and her PRSI. She is as entitled to claim S.W as every other Irish citizen - you included. But she will probably not qualify due to the residency rule. Same as many a returned emigrant - including those who were illegal in the U.S.

It's not what I think. It's the foundation of Western societies than many many people died to create - a society you benefit from while dismissing it as soft and calling for it to be tightened up.

If this tightening up you wish for happened do you thing Boards would exist as a venue for you to voice your anti-democratic views?

Let's take them all back. Our great legal system will punish them as see fit,probably monitoring them,occasionally and we will all live happily ever after. End of, problem solved. And if one of them unexpectedly causes an atrocity it will be collateral damage. Great to get the issue solved.

It's so sad seeing the people who support "Western values" seeming to be so fine with letting them erode and be undermined because some imagined high-mindedness.

This isn't a game, this isn't an abstract thought experiment. There are dozens of ISIS veterans living in Ireland. There will be plenty more. There are thousands across Europe. The Mosques keep getting bigger, we keep inviting more and more in. We allow them to hide behind free speech while they brainwash the next generation and the incredibly gullible.

The sad death of Europe is coming unfortunately.

suicide_circus

Western Values ie: not throwing gays off buildings and not sawing through peoples windpipes need to be be rigerously defended, sometimes this may mean breaking a few eggs.

Bannasidhe

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Then we throw our entire legal system out the window and decide that because a person might have done something we punish them?
Where exactly does that slippery slope end?

We, as a State, have been monitoring potential terrorists since our inception. We do need more resources as seems to be there are a few fascists who are a threat to 'our way of life' who need close watching.

Lisa Smith paid her taxes and her PRSI. She is as entitled to claim S.W as every other Irish citizen - you included. But she will probably not qualify due to the residency rule. Same as many a returned emigrant - including those who were illegal in the U.S.

It's not what I think. It's the foundation of Western societies than many many people died to create - a society you benefit from while dismissing it as soft and calling for it to be tightened up.

If this tightening up you wish for happened do you thing Boards would exist as a venue for you to voice your anti-democratic views?

I would like you to pick a date and some criteria for your supposed foundations of Western Societies. Prisons halfway around the world, death penalty for murder, death penalty for treason, still indentured servitude in the US, have all been part of Western societies and still are in some cases. Why must we take the extreme (and it is extreme) version of being super nice to everyone as the default?

JPCN1

Deleted User wrote: »

It's so sad seeing the people who support "Western values" seeming to be so fine with letting them erode and be undermined because some imagined high-mindedness.

This isn't a game, this isn't an abstract thought experiment. There are dozens of ISIS veterans living in Ireland. There will be plenty more. There are thousands across Europe. The Mosques keep getting bigger, we keep inviting more and more in. We allow them to hide behind free speech while they brainwash the next generation and the incredibly gullible.

The sad death of Europe is coming unfortunately.

Western values as defined by who though.. Varadker, Le Pen, Merkel, Orban?

They will also change and who can say that Western values in ten years will not be those of a Martel or de Valette.

Danzy

suicide_circus wrote: »

Western Values ie: not throwing gays off buildings and not sawing through peoples windpipes need to be be rigerously defended, sometimes this may mean breaking a few eggs.

Many are willing to tolerate that bloody collateral damage.

joe40

I think people should remember that so called Irish "terrorists" caused a lot more death and destruction in Britain than islamist terrorism.
We were still very critical and rightly so about "shoot to kill" policy adopted by British forces. We quite rightly felt the rule of law should apply.
It is tempting to support short cuts to our legal systems, such as "shoot to kill" but generally think this leads to more problem.
Legal systems are complex but they have developed that way to ensure fairness for all.
Totalitarianism starts by dismantling this.

Baggly

suicide_circus wrote:

Western Values ie: not throwing gays off buildings and not sawing through peoples windpipes need to be be rigerously defended, sometimes this may mean breaking a few eggs.

It's funny how you describe the actions of the people you don't like explicitly in graphic detail, yet describe the actions of those you support with an analogy. Well not funny.....silly is more accurate.

Bannasidhe

malinheader wrote: »

Your seriously asking if we would be safe and you think we should let people back onto our country who's goal is to wipe us out.

We are a Western, liberal, society funded on the principles of civil rights and the rule of law. Equal rights of all citizens. Innocent until proven guilty.

I am saying - very clearly - that the views you are espousing are in contradiction of every principle our country is funded on.

Your views - if implemented - would wipe us out.

Bannasidhe

malinheader wrote: »

Let's take them all back. Our great legal system will punish them as see fit,probably monitoring them,occasionally and we will all live happily ever after. End of, problem solved. And if one of them unexpectedly causes an atrocity it will be collateral damage. Great to get the issue solved.

How much collateral damage is acceptable in the calls for extrajudicial punishment?

People here are calling for state sanctioned murders.
Is that not also an atrocity?

suicide_circus

Pter wrote: »

It's funny how you describe the actions of the people you don't like explicitly in graphic detail, yet describe the actions of those you support with an analogy. Well not funny.....silly is more accurate.

i know which side i'm on, do you?

Bannasidhe

Deleted User wrote: »

I would like you to pick a date and some criteria for your supposed foundations of Western Societies. Prisons halfway around the world, death penalty for murder, death penalty for treason, still indentured servitude in the US, have all been part of Western societies and still are in some cases. Why must we take the extreme (and it is extreme) version of being super nice to everyone as the default?

What date would you like?
Shall we start with Magna Carta?
French Revolution?
Abolition of Slavery?
Defeat of Fascism?
Formation of the EEC?

No one is claiming it is perfect - but it sure beats the alternatives.

Says a lot about you that you think civil liberties and innocent until proven guilty is an extreme of being super nice.
I would consider those the bare minimum.

Tacklebox

Bannasidhe wrote: »

We are a Western, liberal, society funded on the principles of civil rights and the rule of law. Equal rights of all citizens. Innocent until proven guilty.

I am saying - very clearly - that the views you are espousing are in contradiction of every principle our country is funded on.

Your views - if implemented - would wipe us out.

Can you please explain what is so liberal about taking back someone who more than likely would have no problem with Amir and Sinbad lopping the heads off your so called liberals?

I think anyone who's been in a terrorist organisation and who's hell bent on the destruction of our civilisation should be left to the laws of the country they carried out their terrorism in.

Our country doesn't want barbarians or evil people inflicting harm on us.

Do you support jibadis?

Baggly

suicide_circus wrote:

i know which side i'm on, do you?

That's rather binary given the thread is jam packed full of varying ideas on how to deal with this issue. You wouldn't be trying to reduce the choice to 'you either support me or you support terrorism', would you?

Because I can dislike the terrorists and also dislike 'breaking a few eggs' to deal with them as well. It's not a binary choice.

Bannasidhe

Tacklebox wrote: »

Can you please explain what is so liberal about taking back someone who more than likely would have no problem with Amir and Sinbad lopping the heads off your so called liberals?

I think anyone who's been in a terrorist organisation and who's hell bent on the destruction of our civilisation should be left to the laws of the country they carried out their terrorism in.

Our country doesn't want barbarians or evil people inflicting harm on us.

Do you support jibadis?

Riiight... now we have reached the zenith of the farce where because I happen to believe in the principles upon which this country was founded I am asked if I support jibadies by a person who wants to throw out those same principles in order to save our civilisation seemingly unaware that those liberal values are our civilisation.

See that's the thing - I am one of the people here arguing to save our civilisation.

All those waving pitchforks are advocating its destruction.

suicide_circus

Pter wrote: »

That's rather binary given the thread is jam packed full of varying ideas on how to deal with this issue. You wouldn't be trying to reduce the choice to 'you either support me or you support terrorism', would you?

Because I can dislike the terrorists and also dislike 'breaking a few eggs' to deal with them as well. It's not a binary choice.

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns.

Baggly

suicide_circus wrote:

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns.

Agree to disagree. Gotcha.

Johnnyhpipe

suicide_circus wrote: »

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns.

Thanks Jack

Giveaway

Maybe we should all submit to Islam, subvert it from the inside. Imagine Islam with 500 million European followers involved in running their institutions who have a completely different outlook on life, though i suspect this sort of stunt would make the Sunni/Shia conflict look civilised

Tea drinker

Bannasidhe wrote: »

And that attitude is more of a threat to Europe than a silly bint who thought the restrictions built into Islam provides some form of purer lifestyle.

Give me a 'soft touch' over a totalitarian regime that ignores laws when it suits any day.

First discussion I heard on this today on RTE R1 a woman in her first sentence compared Smith radical view to the alt right radical.
That's quite a sick view view in order to get a few virtue signals in.
The complete subjugation of all minorities, the keeping of slaves, the mass murder of minorities, burning people alive in cages, mass executions by slitting of throats on Libya beach, while pointing to EU, throwing gays from buildings etc etc.
The real enemy is the alt right? I think the person claiming all the above is on a par with alt right is the real danger.

Baggly

Mod

Closing thread until I can review the quality of contributions and see if thread can be saved.

Baggly

Reopening thread. Any more antagonism, baiting or throwaway comments not adding to the discussion will be dealt with severely.

Giveaway

Pter wrote: »

Reopening thread. Any more antagonism, baiting or throwaway comments not adding to the discussion will be dealt with severely.

Quite polarised the debate. Suspect nobody will be for turning despite reasoned debate
.
What may be worth exploring is that ireland alone among western countries is not seeking to prevent the return of isis fighters. Uk holland germany sweden have all revoked citizenship. Gwrmany is enacting new laws

Bannasidhe

Tea drinker wrote: »

First discussion I heard on this today on RTE R1 a woman in her first sentence compared Smith radical view to the alt right radical.
That's quite a sick view view in order to get a few virtue signals in.
The complete subjugation of all minorities, the keeping of slaves, the mass murder of minorities, burning people alive in cages, mass executions by slitting of throats on Libya beach, while pointing to EU, throwing gays from buildings etc etc.
The real enemy is the alt right? I think the person claiming all the above is on a par with alt right is the real danger.

It's possible to have more than one enemy.

It is not 'virtue signalling' to say that Any/Every fundamentalist/totalitarian regime is a threat - be it's ideology religious or political.

Europe has suffered enough at the hands of the extreme right to now embrace is as some form of defense against extreme Islam.

Boggles

Giveaway wrote: »

What may be worth exploring is that ireland alone among western countries is not seeking to prevent the return of isis fighters. Uk holland germany sweden have all revoked citizenship. Gwrmany is enacting new laws

Haven't 100s if not 1000s all ready returned to those countries?

Around 400 into the UK alone. 40 were prosecuted.

Kivaro

Pter wrote: »

It's funny how you describe the actions of the people you don't like explicitly in graphic detail, yet describe the actions of those you support with an analogy. Well not funny.....silly is more accurate.

Pter wrote: »

Reopening thread. Any more antagonism, baiting or throwaway comments not adding to the discussion will be dealt with severely.

Hmmm.
And of course, you and you alone, will be the arbitrator on what comments are throwaway ...... especially if it does not align with your expressed views on this thread.

By the way, there will no need for you to threaten me "severely" for having the audacity to speak out on your partiality.

Danzy

Bannasidhe wrote: »

It's possible to have more than one enemy.

It is not 'virtue signalling' to say that Any/Every fundamentalist/totalitarian regime is a threat - be it's ideology religious or political.

Europe has suffered enough at the hands of the extreme right to now embrace is as some form of defense against extreme Islam.

The extreme right is dominated by Islam at this stage.

ohnonotgmail

Danzy wrote: »

The extreme right is dominated by Islam at this stage.

Oh dear god.