ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

JPCN1

Don't think he's that stupid.

What's the message... get yourself in a great deal of avoidable bother abroad and we'll send the Jet... everyone else can pay their own way on Ryanair? Fug that.

jam_mac_jam

Leave her there, she is a traitor to her country and her sex. I hope she rots. An Irish woman going to Syria to help enslave Muslim women. She disgusts me.

Danzy

How did her husband die, presumably in battle, did he blow himself up in attack?

Did she provide training given her military background

Richard Hillman

It's one thing saying that she is allowed back in the country but it's another thing when the likes of Simon Coveney are saying they will try and bring her back to Ireland.

Coveney says Ireland 'will try to find a way' to bring Lisa Smith home https://jrnl.ie/4559156

What's in it for him? There is something snakey going on in the background

gw80

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It's one thing saying that she is allowed back in the country but it's another thing when the likes of Simon Coveney are saying they will try and bring her back to Ireland.

Coveney says Ireland 'will try to find a way' to bring Lisa Smith home https://jrnl.ie/4559156

What's in it for him? There is something snakey going on in the background

Snakes? Background? Who, Simon coveney, Peter Sutherland's best buddy? Hardly.

I'm being sarcastic by the way.

enricoh

A friend of mine had a construction company with 10-20 workers that went wallop with the celtic tiger due to bad debts. God knows what he paid in tax, prsi etc for the 10 years before it went wallop.

He went to the dole office as a last resort, in dire straits for help - quite literally to pay for food for his kids.
As he was self employed he got nothing, and was told there to try canada or Australia.

And then we have leo n coveney falling over themselves to help people that hate us, u couldn't make this stuff up!

Tea drinker

enricoh wrote: »

A friend of mine had a construction company with 10-20 workers that went wallop with the celtic tiger due to bad debts. God knows what he paid in tax, prsi etc for the 10 years before it went wallop.

He went to the dole office as a last resort, in dire straits for help - quite literally to pay for food for his kids.
As he was self employed he got nothing, and was told there to try canada or Australia.

And then we have leo n coveney falling over themselves to help people that hate us, u couldn't make this stuff up!

Coming back to take money from workers while never working again themselves.

Gatling

"Were all not terrorist's "

Yes luv your a terrorist ,your husband is a terrorist ,your Isis friends and family are terrorist's.


Despite what leo and covney claims of we owe her,we actually don't owe her anything she's a traitor to the country and should be treated as much ,strip her passport and rights to live her ,

And why is rte running this nonsense of only being radicalised once she was in Syria ,

AllForIt

It's these headlines that are getting on my wick. "Bring her home". Home my ass. We know where her home is and it's not in predominantly Christian Ireland. She's not one of us, she's one of them.

Signore Fancy Pants

Coveney et al are Politicians, this is what they do.

My issue is with the "what law has she broken" crowd. Some of which are here.

Just because Ireland and some of the International community have not got their legal ducks in a row regarding returning fighters and supporters...does not negate the fact that these people have subscribed to an organisation whose intent was to kill as many "non believers" as possible.

Some people here dont see an issue with it, thats the real problem.

end of the road

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Leave her there, she is a traitor to her country and her sex. I hope she rots. An Irish woman going to Syria to help enslave Muslim women. She disgusts me.

leaving her there can't be done, not indefinitely. the only way she can be left temporarily is if the syrian government of their own accord decide they would wish to try her. if they decide not to do so, and it will be their decision alone, then back she goes to ireland as soon as. syria and the middle east will not be becoming the dump for the west's nutjobs.

Gatling wrote: »

"Were all not terrorist's "

Yes luv your a terrorist ,your husband is a terrorist ,your Isis friends and family are terrorist's.


Despite what leo and covney claims of we owe her,we actually don't owe her anything she's a traitor to the country and should be treated as much ,strip her passport and rights to live her ,

And why is rte running this nonsense of only being radicalised once she was in Syria ,

stripping her passport and rights to live here is not possible.

AllForIt wrote: »

It's these headlines that are getting on my wick. "Bring her home". Home my ass. We know where her home is and it's not in predominantly Christian Ireland. She's not one of us, she's one of them.

accept her home is in "christian" ireland. she is one of us whether any of us like it or not.

K.Flyer

I wonder would the government be so fast to help get her and her sort home if they were dissident republicans having gotten caught up in some overseas campaign, would they fcuk.
Its sickening to the stomach that the people who we depend on to look after our country and so meek and willing to allow these sort of people, who clearly professed their hatred for western society norms, back onto our land.
Does Varadkar not realise, that in their ideal caliphate, which they had hoped to spread across all countries, that these people would joyously tie his hands and feet together behind his back and throw him off the top of the highest building. What sort of a weak minded muppet is he?

Gatling

end of the road wrote: »

leaving her there can't be done, not indefinitely. the only way she can be left temporarily is if the syrian government

It can it's simple really.


Sorry your now a terrorist and anyone who supports her should be treated accordingly ,

Why anyone in their right mind is actually demanding she brought brought home and treated like some kind of returning emigrant is beyond me ,

We definitely have serious mental health issues in this country

Tacklebox

Gatling wrote: »

It can it's simple really.


Sorry your now a terrorist and anyone who supports her should be treated accordingly ,

Why anyone in their right mind is actually demanding she brought brought home and treated like some kind of returning emigrant is beyond me ,

We definitely have serious mental health issues in this country

Just think of it as a jamboree and the scout is coming home from a camping and hiking trip from the eastern front.

Played cowboys and Indians along the way, did a bit of archery, dug holes.
Lit a few camp fires.

Orienteering was probably fun too...

All sunshine lollipops and Wainbows

BBFAN

I've no sympathy for this woman but if it's true that she has a two year old then yes I do think that child should be returned here at the very least. What did the child do wrong?

Signore Fancy Pants

end of the road wrote: »

leaving her there can't be done, not indefinitely. the only way she can be left temporarily is if the syrian government of their own accord decide they would wish to try her. if they decide not to do so, and it will be their decision alone

.

Not exactly, she is in Kurdish held territory. Syria have enough to worry about without dealing with thousands of ISIL supporters being held captive in eastern Syria.

If these "problems" were to disappear at Kurdish hands, the Syrian Regime wouldnt care less.

There is no incentive for Assad to try thousands of ISIL supporters....whatever about ones being held by Pro Syrian Govt forces, yes....but these ones are currently a Kurdish problem.

A problem which the Kurds also dont want, nor have the manpower or will to sustain.

Its a complex situation, ISIL is not "defeated" in Syria, their current foothold has just been taken. It is likely that they will reorganise and emerge once again but as a lesser operationally effective force.

Thinking waaaaay outside of the box here, Assad may come to an agreement with the Kurds. Allow the Kurds to keep Raqqa and Deir Ez Zeir Provinces in exchange for containing ISIL supporters.

Signore Fancy Pants

BBFAN wrote: »

I've no sympathy for this woman but if it's true that she has a two year old then yes I do think that child should be returned here at the very least. What did the child do wrong?

That is not Irelands problem tbh.

Lets remember, while ISIL were in a good position militarily, she wasnt looking to come back with her kid or concerned for its safety. The Caliphate in its current form has failed, "Plan B" is now in effect...."let me come home, 'cos child".

Id have sympathy for her if she was dragged to Syria, held against her will and ended up with a child from the result of nefarious actions....thats not the reality though.

The reality is, she found her religion of choice, she followed her beliefs, she willingly went to Syria and married an ISIL fighter and had a kid for him (potentially).

She made a litany of decisions that led to this. Now she wants out.

You dont put €100 on a horse to win and when it falls you cant change your mind and get your money back.

gw80

Ivan2019 wrote: »

To be fair there is no proof of the Coveney Sunderland connection besides speculation

Like that time they were at the Bilderburg meeting together.

Danzy

If she had joined a militant Nazi group that was for argument sake killing dozens of gays or gypsies while fighting In say the Ukraine but had not personally killed as far as know would the same people be talking about her rights, bring her home, citizen after all etc..

They wouldn't and we all know it.

Why then when she is part of something that was Internationally and historically significant for its brutality and savagery is there a different outlook.

In either case there may be no reason or right to prevent her but the outlook and attitude is very different.

I suspect Europe will pay a very brutal price for that yet.

end of the road

Dale Doback wrote: »

That is not Irelands problem tbh.

i'm afraid it is ireland's problem.

Dale Doback wrote: »

Lets remember, while ISIL were in a good position militarily, she wasnt looking to come back with her kid or concerned for its safety. The Caliphate in its current form has failed, "Plan B" is now in effect...."let me come home, 'cos child".

Id have sympathy for her if she was dragged to Syria, held against her will and ended up with a child from the result of nefarious actions....thats not the reality though.

The reality is, she found her religion of choice, she followed her beliefs, she willingly went to Syria and married an ISIL fighter and had a kid for him (potentially).

She made a litany of decisions that led to this. Now she wants out.

You dont put €100 on a horse to win and when it falls you cant change your mind and get your money back.

none of that changes the fact that ireland will have to take her back.

Signore Fancy Pants

end of the road wrote: »

i'm afraid it is ireland's problem.

none of that changes the fact that ireland will have to take her back.

Its not about "changing the fact", its about perspective.

Nothing will change the fact of what she is, what her beliefs are, what she may have or have not done or assisted in.

She deserves no sympathy and no quarter and should be dealt with harshly by whatever means applicable.

She may "not be a terrorist" which is debatable. She left the Defence Forces with tactical and operational experience, proficient in military training. To think she did not utilise that in some way, shape or form in Syria is being naive.

She still believes in a Caliphate. Things will die down when she returns but it is likely she will seek out like minded individuals and pose a threat to national security in the future.

You are correct, she is Irelands problem but in bigger ways than her human rights.

jmreire

end of the road wrote: »

i'm afraid it is ireland's problem.



none of that changes the fact that ireland will have to take her back.

Yes we will have to take her back, she is an Irish Citizen, with all the right's that goes with that. BUT for any other isis members, who hold Irish Citizenship, not by Birth but by "Naturalisation " after arriving here as asylum seeker, no way they should be allowed back under any circumstances. Revoke citizenship, and ban them. They cannot claim statelessness, as they are still citizens of Islamic State. For all of the discussion she is generating, she is still held by the Kurds in one of their camps...and I would not be counting my chickens before they are hatched..It's a long long way from there to here...or for Lisa to be out shopping in Dundalk any time soon. I would not take any bets on it,

end of the road

jmreire wrote: »

Yes we will have to take her back, she is an Irish Citizen, with all the right's that goes with that. BUT for any other isis members, who hold Irish Citizenship, not by Birth but by "Naturalisation " after arriving here as asylum seeker, no way they should be allowed back under any circumstances. Revoke citizenship, and ban them. They cannot claim statelessness, as they are still citizens of Islamic State. For all of the discussion she is generating, she is still held by the Kurds in one of their camps...and I would not be counting my chickens before they are hatched..It's a long long way from there to here...or for Lisa to be out shopping in Dundalk any time soon. I would not take any bets on it,

yes naturalised irish isis members should be deported to their countries of origin. they would be citizens of their countries of origine, but they cannot be citizens of islamic state given islamic state is not a state and therefore it cannot have citizens.

AlekSmart

JPCN1 wrote: »

Don't think he's that stupid.

What's the message... get yourself in a great deal of avoidable bother abroad and we'll send the Jet... everyone else can pay their own way on Ryanair? Fug that.

Minister Coveney's words regarding the Irish State's responsibilities to it's Citizens are worth considering a bit more...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/efforts-underway-to-help-isil-bride-lisa-smith-out-of-syria-through-a-neighbouring-country-37951087.html

Earlier today Tánaiste Simon Coveney described her situation as an “unusual case”.

“But the Taoiseach and I have made it very clear she is an Irish citizen and she is the responsibility of Ireland,” he said.

“We have a responsibility towards her and, in particular, her daughter. We will try to follow through on that responsibility and find a way to bring her home.

“Part of the problem here is that this is a war zone or at least a former war zone.

“It is not that easy to actually get into these places.

The Ministers words may well bring some comfort to another young misfortunate Irish Citizen "Banged up abroad".....Kieran Barry,particularly as Thailand is somewhat easier to access.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/young-traveller-faces-50-years-6712993

A young traveller faces spending the next 50 years in a Thai jail if he is found guilty of drug dealing.

Kieran Barry, 23, was arrested in Chiang Mai after allegedly attempting to sell a kilo of cannabis to a local cop.

It is claimed he was caught in a sting operation led by the Crime Suppression Division,

Is there any great difference between this pair's "Irishness" ?

Apart from Gender and Religion (assuming Mr Barry is non-Muslim) ?

So,C'mon Simon,lets get the motor warmed up.......:D

Wanderer78

AlekSmart wrote:

The Ministers words may well bring some comfort to another young misfortunate Irish Citizen "Banged up abroad".....Kieran Barry,particularly as Thailand is somewhat easier to access.

He's in a bit of bother there

Boggles

AlekSmart wrote: »

Minister Coveney's words regarding the Irish State's responsibilities to it's Citizens are worth considering a bit more...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/efforts-underway-to-help-isil-bride-lisa-smith-out-of-syria-through-a-neighbouring-country-37951087.html



The Ministers words may well bring some comfort to another young misfortunate Irish Citizen "Banged up abroad".....Kieran Barry,particularly as Thailand is somewhat easier to access.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/young-traveller-faces-50-years-6712993



Is there any great difference between this pair's "Irishness" ?

Apart from Gender and Religion (assuming Mr Barry is non-Muslim) ?

So,C'mon Simon,lets get the motor warmed up.......:D

We will park the fact that Thailand is an internationally recognized country and not some land controlled by essentially Nomads so we can indulge your nonsensical whataboutery for a second

The story is 4 years old this year.

What happened Mr Barry, was he sentenced to 50 years, is he still waiting for trial, was he released, is he still in Thailand?

These are fairly standard question that need to be answered before anyone tries to goad the Minister of Foreign Affairs to get involved.

Reality isn't part of your narrative though is it?

Danzy

end of the road wrote: »

yes naturalised irish isis members should be deported to their countries of origin. they would be citizens of their countries of origine, but they cannot be citizens of islamic state given islamic state is not a state and therefore it cannot have citizens.

No problem with any ISIS member coming back as long as they receive life term sentences. No mixing in the general population.

That should apply across all of Europe.

inforfun

The annoying thing is that more and more these isis women are going to be painted as victims that need to be rescued.

They might not have shot (too many) people but they have been every bit as involved in and responsible cruelties as their male companions.

ohnonotgmail

Danzy wrote: »

No problem with any ISIS member coming back as long as they receive life term sentences. No mixing in the general population.

That should apply across all of Europe.

What exactly should she be tried with?

mynamejeff

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

What exactly should she be tried with?

member of a terrorist organisation , supporting terrorism same as the ****e bags that join our own terrorist organisations