ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

ohnonotgmail

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I would have thought being a member of ISIS is a crime in the same way as being a member of the IRA is but other then that, no we do not know if she has or has not committed crimes.

ISIS is not a proscribed organisation in this country.

Deise Vu

Boggles wrote: »

I'm not so sure Muslims in Ireland would like to adopt her either.

Strange thing to say.

I would have thought this was straight forward? Lisa Smith has converted to Islam. That means she adopted the Muslim community. I would imagine they would be the last people to want her back.

jam_mac_jam

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

ISIS is not a proscribed organisation in this country.

Well that's fine then bring her home and have her on the late late, no problems at all.

ohnonotgmail

Deise Vu wrote: »

I would have thought this was straight forward? Lisa Smith has converted to Islam. That means she adopted the Muslim community. I would imagine they would be the last people to want her back.

that doesnt mean that they adopted her.

Boggles

Deise Vu wrote: »

I would have thought this was straight forward? Lisa Smith has converted to Islam. That means she adopted the Muslim community. I would imagine they would be the last people to want her back.

No she didn't.

She joined a death cult who predominately slaughtered and enslaved Muslims.

ohnonotgmail

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Well that's fine then bring her home and have her on the late late, no problems at all.

calm down chief, i'm not saying that this situation is all fine and dandy.

Paddy Cow

Ivan2019 wrote: »

I am certain Lisa will pose a threat
But she is one of ours
Bring her home
If it was yourself abroad in deep trouble you would want to be brought home too

Her ethnicity is Irish but mentally she is not one of us.

jam_mac_jam

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

calm down chief, i'm not saying that this situation is all fine and dandy.

Calmer then you dude.

Deise Vu

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that doesnt mean that they adopted her.

Did I say they did? I said "her adopted community" as in , she adopted them, became one, dresses like one etc etc and I repeat, I would say the Irish Muslim community are the last people in Ireland who would want her back.

Paddy Cow

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So they were aware of crimes but did not commit those crimes themselves? do i have that right? Do we normally convict people for being aware of the crimes of others?

I'm not trying to convict anyone. I know it's pointless as there is no proof. I, personally believe these women are not innocent and have committed many crimes but will never face any justice, which is the biggest injustice there is. If Lisa comes home, she will be given a house and all the benefits. Ya it's her right blah blah. It's just a shame there is nothing to charge her with.

jmayo

Boggles wrote: »

Can't imagine sending detectives to whatever part of the middle east she frequented would be

A. Popular.
B. Safe.
C. Even remotely doable.

I can think of a few guards that could be sent over.

Boggles wrote: »

Yeah you did. She is currently residing in a refugee camp.

Where she lived was an areas the size of Great Britain.

How do we talk to these "locals"?

So you are saying that there is no way of knowing what she might have done and there is no way of doing a background check because of where she has come from ?

Boggles

jmayo wrote: »

So you are saying that there is no way of knowing what she might have done and there is no way of doing a background check because of where she has come from ?

She is 1 of 9000 relatives of ISIS fighters who are currently detained in a camp built for 20,000 which contains 70,000 people.

Do you think the SDF have the will, the resources and expertise to process that?

Apart from the fact they don't want to.

The chances are where she lived is probably gone, a ruined town with no buildings left standing where the only inhabitant's left are rotting corpses.

jmayo

Boggles wrote: »

She is 1 of 9000 relatives of ISIS fighters who are currently detained in a camp built for 20,000 which contains 70,000 people.

Do you think the SDF have the will, the resources and expertise to process that?

Apart from the fact they don't want to.

The chances are where she lived is probably gone, a ruined town with no buildings left standing where the only inhabitant's left are rotting corpses.

So you are saying we will never know anything about her time in Syria because even if there were records they were probably destroyed ?

And there are no authorities with the resources and wherewithal to respond even if they had the will ?

BTW would this not describe also the likes of Libya, Somalia, Iraq to a degree, Afghanistan as well ?

ohnonotgmail

jmayo wrote: »

So you are saying we will never know anything about her time in Syria because even if there were records they were probably destroyed ?

And there are no authorities with the resources and wherewithal to respond even if they had the will ?

That is precisely it. though i'm not exactly sure what records you think might have existed.

Boggles

jmayo wrote: »

So you are saying we will never know anything about her time in Syria because even if there were records they were probably destroyed ?

And there is no authorities with the resources and wherewithal to respond even if they had the will ?

Records? I doubt it - what do you mean?, what you replied to was a poster suggesting they interview the local people where she lived, I'm suggesting where she lived may no longer be there.

I'm telling you exactly what is happening on the ground there from what I have read..

The SDF are doing their best, again today they came out and asked for help from the international community, it will be ignored.

They are treating ISIS and their families with compassion. Their focused on reconciliation and not vengeance.

From reading of how they are dealing with situation, chances are she won't be prosecuted.

Sky news did find some evidence that help convict a returning recruit to Britain, but that is extremely rare.

jam_mac_jam

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

That is precisely it. though i'm not exactly sure what records you think might have existed.

Records did exist, they have already found loads of records.


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/04/04/world/middleeast/isis-documents-mosul-iraq.html

jmayo

And yet you guys are the exact same ones that keep telling us we have to take in all these "refugees" arriving in Europe and that they will be background checked to make sure they are ok ?

Hell how many times have the doubters being lectured around here about how there are all these checks being done on "refugees" destined for Ireland ?
:rolleyes:

We have no fooking idea who we are getting or what they have done in their past.

We have already seen the thieves, the rapists, the kiddie fiddlers, the escaped criminals, the terrorists turn up in Europe.
God knows what else we have gotten.

Thanks lads for proving the point I have now being making for years.

There is often no way we can background check some of the "refugees" and "migrants".

Boggles

jmayo wrote: »

And yet you guys are the exact same ones that keep telling us we have to take in all these "refugees" arriving in Europe and that they will be background checked to make sure they are ok ?

No I'm not, weird thing to say.

I'm pretty sure we have refused to take refugees because we were unable to do thorough back ground checks.

But again we are talking about an Irish Citizen, it's moot to whatever point you thought you were making.

AlekSmart

Boggles wrote: »

We will park the fact that Thailand is an internationally recognized country and not some land controlled by essentially Nomads so we can indulge your nonsensical whataboutery for a second

The story is 4 years old this year.

What happened Mr Barry, was he sentenced to 50 years, is he still waiting for trial, was he released, is he still in Thailand?

These are fairly standard question that need to be answered before anyone tries to goad the Minister of Foreign Affairs to get involved.

Reality isn't part of your narrative though is it?

Yer spot-on.

4 years on and,not a peep.

The guilt,or otherwise of Kieran Barry does'nt really bother me,but,as you say,the "fairly standard questions" regarding his remand and Trial Date do not appear to have even been asked.

Indeed,you are also correct in not wanting to "goad" Minister Coveney into getting involved,asking these questions,is,in fact,a standard part of Dept of Foreign Affairs consular support for ALL Irish Citizens....apparently.

At least it was for the bould Ibrahim Halawa,who had more representatives batting for him,than the entire U.N.

But,they are still appropriate questions for Ireland to be asking in respect of Mr Barry,or is he a different kind of Irish than Ms Smith ?

Now,remind me again,what the "narrative" bit is....;)

jmreire

jmayo wrote: »

So you are saying we will never know anything about her time in Syria because even if there were records they were probably destroyed ?

And there are no authorities with the resources and wherewithal to respond even if they had the will ?

BTW would this not describe also the likes of Libya, Somalia, Iraq to a degree, Afghanistan as well ?

In terms of matching atrocities committed by isis, despite the fact that isis killed loads of "witnesses" to their crimes,,,,,there will still be survivors,and for sure they will be looking at all of people who have surrendered..an matching faces to crimes. This does not mean that every isis monster will be caught...unfortunately, but definitely some of them will...looking at the expression's and general demeanor of the captured ex isis " soldiers", I would not give too much for their chances.

Boggles

AlekSmart wrote: »

Yer spot-on.

4 years on and,not a peep.

The guilt,or otherwise of Kieran Barry does'nt really bother me,but,as you say,the "fairly standard questions" regarding his remand and Trial Date do not appear to have even been asked.

Indeed,you are also correct in not wanting to "goad" Minister Coveney into getting involved,asking these questions,is,in fact,a standard part of Dept of Foreign Affairs consular support for ALL Irish Citizens....apparently.

At least it was for the bould Ibrahim Halawa,who had more representatives batting for him,than the entire U.N.

But,they are still appropriate questions for Ireland to be asking in respect of Mr Barry,or is he a different kind of Irish than Ms Smith ?

Now,remind me again,what the "narrative" bit is....;)

Da Fuq

Very simply is he still over there or not?

Because it would be daft in the extreme if Simon went lobbying for him if he weren't, correct?

AlekSmart

Boggles wrote: »

Da Fuq

Very simply is he still over there or not?

Because it would be daft in the extreme if Simon went lobbying for him if he weren't, correct?

No dafter than what's currently being staged.

I've No idea where he is,however I'd be confident that had Minister Coveney struck a Diplomatic Deal regarding this particular lad,we'd have had a line or two about it.

We're not at all sure of the location of Ms Smith,when it comes to it,are we ? not that it has deterred an tAire agus an Taoiseach from launching forth on her behalf ?.

jmreire

Boggles wrote: »

I'm not so sure Muslims in Ireland would like to adopt her either.

Strange thing to say.

Adoption might NOT be what they have in mind.....remember of all the people isis murdered, and they murdered thousands, the vast majority would have been Muslims. And they do not forget or forgive easily. And if any family member of mine was murdered by these isis bastards, I would not be inclined to forgive and forget either...The atrocities carried out by isis puts them in a sub-human category, and "normal" rules of war do not apply, in my opinion.

end of the road

mooreman09 wrote: »

Leave her there.

and what about the syrians and kurds or all else? why should she be left where she is to pose a risk to potentially the whole world?

mooreman09 wrote: »

She made her decision - one so grave that she doesn't deserve to row back on it.

ultimately irrelevant. security is more important then the beliefs of someone who believes in a failed and debunked ideology

SSr0

end of the road wrote: »

security is more important the beliefs of someone who believes in a failed and debunked ideology

Multiculturalism?



.... sorry, couldn't help it

Galwayguy35

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

ISIS is not a proscribed organisation in this country that i am aware of. It is proscribed in the UK but we are not the UK.

Well it bloody well should be if it's not.

Signore Fancy Pants

end of the road wrote: »

and what about the syrians and kurds or all else? why should she be left where she is to pose a risk to potentially the whole world?



ultimately irrelevant. security is more important the beliefs of someone who believes in a failed and debunked ideology

Would you not rather she pose a risk in a conflict zone than back in Ireland.

Topgear on Dave

Dale Doback wrote: »

Would you not rather she pose a risk in a conflict zone than back in Ireland.

The Kurds dont want her or any of the foreigners causing trouble for them, they have enough problems.

They are looking to offload them all ASAP Id say.

Shes coming home.

Gatling

Maybe it's time for the defence forces investment in military drone technology .

Signore Fancy Pants

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

The Kurds dont want her or any of the foreigners causing trouble for them, they have enough problems.

They are looking to offload them all ASAP Id say.

Shes coming home.

I know they don't, they want to get on with their Rojava and negotiations for establishing a federalised Kurdistan.

If they go to Iraq they may be killed, however, Turkey is an option.