ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

rgossip30

Boggles wrote: »

Firstly the government of Syria is Assad and his brother, let's just say they may not have much love for the West.

Nuremberg indicted the "main players" in Nazi Germany, less than 200.

This woman wouldn't even be considered.

They should give her the job back on the government jet after she has been assessed and deradicalised.

Boggles

rgossip30 wrote: »

They should give her the job back on the government jet .

No. That would just be silly wouldn't it?

K.Flyer

Anyone who believes that anyone returning from the caliphate poses little or no threat is delusional.
Intel coming out of Baghux shows the reason that thousands of ISIS Brides and Fighters have left Baghuz is to survive, get back to their homelands and re-group, so that they can build up numbers for the caliphate to rise again.
ISIS is not over by a long chalk and any softly softly approach to this is going to play directly into the hands of these fanatics and their supporters.
But what is sickening is how they were happy to bring children into this conflict and subject them to the horror of the ISIS regime. Its the children I feel so sorry for being caught up in the chaos.

mynamejeff

Dontfadeaway wrote: »

I feel sorry for whoever is going to be stuck living beside her.

I feel sorry for who ever lives beside EOTR

end of the road

Dale Doback wrote: »

Come off it now EOTR, it is the case.

She is more of a risk to Ireland whilst in Ireland than if she was left in Syria or elsewhere, dont be losing the run of yourself now with nonsense.

Again, a "managed return" is a fallacy and will be of no benefit to the safety and security of the State.

1. She will be accompanied home...fine.
2. Maybe have her passport taken away...whats the point in that? How does that guarantee Irish safety and security? It doesnt.
3. She may be monitored...again, 24/7 forever? Nope.
4. Is she employable?...doubt it.

What is a radicalised woman to do when she returns home with no freedom of movement, limited employment opportunity while under surveillance?

Will it breed contempt?
Will she seek out likeminded Caliphate believers?
Will she be accepted to the Muslim Community?

Is Ireland expected to leave it, forget about it, be grand?

Explain to me what life will be like for Lisa Smith on a return to Ireland over the next 5 years.

i believe that the best people to fully answer your questions are the government and those working in the relevant area of the gardai who specialise in dealing with people who require being monitored, who may be already working with gihadi's and so on who have returned. they should be able to give you the likely possibilities of what lisa smith may face upon her return. as a personal guess though, some of what she is likely to face if some sort of a charge can be brought against her. likely prison for a time with the government changing the law to deal with future cases very effectively. upon her release, i would imagine that she likely won't have internet access. will likely be on a tag and would only be allowed out at certain times of the day. won't have a passport. all of this and more is absolutely justified. i would imagine whatever does happen, life certainly won't be any bit easy for her as it should be the case, and i don't believe the government and authorities will leave her to pose a risk. i do believe they will do what they can.

Where’s Lisa Smith’s husband from?

ToBeFrank123

A timely reminder of the ongoing threat from supporters of this group.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47719402

Their supporters are the hardest of hardcore, brainwashed to the nth degree.

mgn

Boggles wrote: »

Da fuq? Is everything all right with you?

She can be fired into the fooking sun for all I care.

Don't confuse a couple of posters trying to explain the reality of a situation to you and then weirdly write it off as some sort of unbridled compassion.

Calm down.Your on this thread every day spouting rubbish with your other mate thanking each others posts like school children.The reality of the situation is she left this country to join one of the most barbaric organisations in the world of her own free will.Why didn't she want to come back until now.Let the rotten bitch rot there.

Boggles

mgn wrote: »

Calm down.Your on this thread every day spouting rubbish

You mean reality? I'm perfectly calm thanks.

Should we all just drag our knuckles on the sides of the thread and fantasize wildly what harm we would like this woman to come to or punishments we would like to see inflicted.

Your grand thanks, for me that's a bit unsavory, there is other places on the web for that.

Off you pop, as you were.

mgn

Boggles wrote: »

You mean reality? I'm perfectly calm thanks.



Off you pop, as you were.

Your not talking to a child now.Sounds to me like you think you are someone of importance.

Boggles

mgn wrote: »

Your not talking to a child now

I know that's the scary part.

Anyway you having a pop at people is nothing to with the content of the thread.

So as you were.

jmreire

Dale Doback wrote: »

Of course its a matter of 'like or dislike'.

Are you saying you have no opinion on the matter? Stop hiding behind Political will.

She is coming home, we know that and some of us dislike that.

Will you be happy if an ISIL supporter or fighter who believes in a Caliphate moves nect door to you? Yes or no?

Dale...what I personally think will not affect Leo's decision to repatriate Lisa. No more than if the Government decide to knock down my house to widen the motorway. They will make a decision, and thats that, end of story. But personally, and not because I am an isis lover, I believe bringing her home where we can keep an eye on her is the way to go, rather than letting her roam freely around the world. Having said that, while nearly everyone is focusing on what terrorist activities she may get up to when / if she returns home,let's look at an alternative Lisa....the one who comes home, completely changes her mind about isis...realise's that she made the Mother of all mistakes, and becomes a reformed character.....and not only renounces isis, but becomes an active voice against them? Having seen the real isis up close and personal, who could do the job better?? Could be the best preventative voice in this part of the world. As to whether I would like it if she was moved in beside me, while I would not actively look for her to be my next door neighbour , if she was moved in beside me, I'd accept it. My greatest fear would not be any terrorist activities from her, but if she changed side's and became an anti-isis activist as I have suggested in last paragraph, that would be extremely worrying for me, because of what isis do to perceived traitors.

mgn

jmreire wrote: »

Dale...what I personally think will not affect Leo's decision to repatriate Lisa. No more than if the Government decide to knock down my house to widen the motorway. They will make a decision, and thats that, end of story. But personally, and not because I am an isis lover, I believe bringing her home where we can keep an eye on her is the way to go, rather than letting her roam freely around the world. Having said that, while nearly everyone is focusing on what terrorist activities she may get up to when / if she returns home,let's look at an alternative Lisa....the one who comes home, completely changes her mind about isis...realise's that she made the Mother of all mistakes, and becomes a reformed character.....and not only renounces isis, but becomes an active voice against them? Having seen the real isis up close and personal, who could do the job better?? Could be the best preventative voice in this part of the world. As to whether I would like it if she was moved in beside me, while I would not actively look for her to be my next door neighbour , if she was moved in beside me, I'd accept it. My greatest fear would not be any terrorist activities from her, but if she changed side's and became an anti-isis activist as I have suggested in last paragraph, that would be extremely worrying for me, because of what isis do to perceived traitors.

You have a better chance of winning the lotto than that happing.

jmreire

mgn wrote: »

You have a better chance of winning the lotto than that happing.

Only time will answer that question. ( either the lotto or Lisa LOL )...but I would prefer that she and all of the estimated 9'000 foreign fighters in Baghuz were repatriated back to their home Countries and dealt with there, than roving freely around the world.Presently there are about 70'000 people in one camp ( built for 5'000 people) in the Kurd controlled area. The rest of the fighter's there ( not counting the women and children and foreigners like Lisa) are either Iraqi or Syrian......and for these people, especially the Syrian ones,,, a return to the Assad regime will not be a pleasant future...probably will be the same for Iraqi nationals.

Lillyfae

jmreire wrote: »

I would prefer that she and all of the estimated 9'000 foreign fighters in Baghuz were repatriated back to their home Countries and dealt with there

Me too, but unfortunately I have no faith in the Irish government or police force to do this if she's out and roaming around. ONLY if she's incarcerated.

ohnonotgmail

Lillyfae wrote: »

Me too, but unfortunately I have no faith in the Irish government or police force to do this if she's out and roaming around. ONLY if she's incarcerated.

Is it not traditional to try people based on evidence before incarcerating them?

98q76e12hrflnk

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Is it not traditional to try people based on evidence before incarcerating them?

She join ISIS. What more do you want?

ohnonotgmail

declan2693 wrote: »

She join ISIS. What more do you want?

which is not a crime. So what are you convicting her of?

Lillyfae

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Is it not traditional to try people based on evidence before incarcerating them?

Not usually IF it's a hypothetical situation, no :rolleyes:

gw80

Lillyfae wrote: »

Me too, but unfortunately I have no faith in the Irish government or police force to do this if she's out and roaming around. ONLY if she's incarcerated.

You spelt incinerated wrong there

gozunda

K.Flyer wrote: »

Anyone who believes that anyone returning from the caliphate poses little or no threat is delusional.
Intel coming out of Baghux shows the reason that thousands of ISIS Brides and Fighters have left Baghuz is to survive, get back to their homelands and re-group, so that they can build up numbers for the caliphate to rise again.
ISIS is not over by a long chalk and any softly softly approach to this is going to play directly into the hands of these fanatics and their supporters.
But what is sickening is how they were happy to bring children into this conflict and subject them to the horror of the ISIS regime. Its the children I feel so sorry for being caught up in the chaos.

This from The Times today

At the scene of of the defeat of Islamic state believers near Baghuz, Syria

such was the ferocity of the battle of Baghuz as the last diehard Islamic State believers made good their pact with martyrdom...one who did use her (suicide) belt was the mother of two small children. She walked towards Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) holding an infant girl in her arms and her small son by the hand. "She blew herself and her children up just twenty metres away from me." Said Adnan Afrin, 37, a senior Kurdish commander with the SDF. "I saw pieces of human flying through the air above me. Just behind her was a second man who then blew himself up. Behind him was another who first ran, then blew himself up"

Are these radicalised Islamic extremists a danger to the rest of the world? Yes they are...

jmreire

gozunda wrote: »

This from The Times today

At the scene of of the defeat of Islamic state believers near Baghuz, Syria



Are these radicalised Islamic extremists a danger to the rest of the world? Yes they are...

Sure they are ( or at least some of them are ) Which reinforces my point that rather than let them free to roam freely around the World, the ones like Lisa should be repatriated to their own Country's, where they can be monitored.
At the moment, the Kurds are under enormous pressure with the Nrs of isis refugees in the camp Al-Haul that they are controlling. They have already asked for an International Tribunal to be set up to try these people and pass judgement on them...but so far no sign of this happening.For sure, the Kurds are not in a position to keep this camp running indefinitely...they will search and check every single individual for any crimes that they may have committed against the Kurd's / Yazidi's, and they will deliver their own form of justice to any that they find. Earlier in your post, it is mentioned about men, women and children becoming suicide bombers rather than be taken alive by the Kurds....one reason ( aside from the religious martyrdom angle) is that these would have been recognized as having committed atrocities during the height of the caliphate and facing retribution, so better go out as a martyr than meet their fate at the hands of the Kurds.

rgossip30

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/alan-shatter-theres-a-risk-lisa-smith-will-be-feted-a-hero-if-she-returns-37951439.html. Alan Shatter has just touched on something I have been pondering about .Lisa Smith could become a celebraty and the government won't be going to get her out it's too far.

joeguevara

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

which is not a crime. So what are you convicting her of?

Section 5(2) of the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) 2005 Act explicitly provides that the Offences Against the State Acts apply to any terrorist group as if it were an unlawful organisation.By its nature and actions, Isis clearly qualifies as a ‘terrorist group’ involved in ‘terrorist activity’ or ‘terrorist-linked activity’, all as defined in section 4 of the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) Act 2005 by reference to the EU framework decision on combating terrorism. So membership is a crime. Now proving membership is a different story.

I seem to remember reading somewhere (can’t find it though) that al Quaeda members went on strike demanding better pay. Therefore something like evidence of receiving payment could be necessary. Simply being in their presence would be a quandary to prosecute. The person could argue that they were held hostage.or simply receiving shelter. Or possession of weapons, uniform (if they have any) or related paraphernalia. Going to be a minefield for the lawyers.

rgossip30

rgossip30 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/alan-shatter-theres-a-risk-lisa-smith-will-be-feted-a-hero-if-she-returns-37951439.html. Alan Shatter has just touched on something I have been pondering about .Lisa Smith could become a celebraty and the government won't be going to get her out it's too far.

The government jet .

skooterblue2

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

which is not a crime. So what are you convicting her of?

Would you consider being a member of the Waffen SS and card carrying Nazi party member being a crime between 1932 and 1944 a crime?

Danzy

Lisa Smith worked 9n the Govt. Jet with Bertie Ahern.

Can we have her put back working with him maybe as his chef.

jam_mac_jam

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Is it not traditional to try people based on evidence before incarcerating them?

How do you know there is no evidence? How do you know she hasn't committed a crime. Obviously in Ireland, in a democratic country you are not just going to lock her up without a trail. Most are suggesting she be tried either in Ireland or in Syria, where are you getting the idea that she would just be looked up without trail.


You have been going on about this straw man continuously. Again, you don't know what crimes she has or has not committed.

joeguevara

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Is it not traditional to try people based on evidence before incarcerating them?

That would be the normal practice however its not an absolute process. We have numerous provisions to enable pre-trial detention especially where its the case of public interest and security.

It would actually be a pretty straightforward as you would have to outline that there is a strong possibiligty that the alleged perpetrator may use the media platform toi promote her own agenda which may instil fear into the public community and that right would trump a right to liberty because of a presumption of innocence.

skooterblue2

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

How do you know there is no evidence? How do you know she hasn't committed a crime

Well she wasnt out in Syria for the world championships Sandcastle buildings? If you have left a safe part of the world for a part of the world that is on the Department of Foreign Affairs Top 10 no go zones, then you are out there and up to no good.