ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

Atoms for Peace

They should be made to renounce Islam and come back to the bossum of the one true and Catholic church.

malinheader

jmreire wrote: »

Or maybe not... could be the best advertisement against isis we could have.....because,like it or not, according to the law of the lane, she is being brought back to Ireland, and according to leos' latest on the subject, the sooner the better...they are assembling selected isis member's like Lisa, and when they have a group together, they will bring them back to their respective Countries. It is being done through the Red Cross. I am not trying to make a case for isis or Lisa.. ( the opposite in fact...I have nothing except contempt and hatred for isis ) but facts are facts,,,and that is what you have to accept, like it or not. So I try to look at the positive side of it.

How do you see this as the best advertisment against ISIS. On what grounds would this harm ISIS.

Fracture

malinheader wrote: »

How do you see this as the best advertisment against ISIS. On what grounds would this harm ISIS.

I actually think our country bringing these people back is a good thing for ISIS, it allows people who might be inclined to join these types to think that "I'll go over and try it, if it doesn't work out sure i can just come home".
My opinion is anyone who decides to join groups like this should have their passports revoked, and we should cross our fingers in hope that a bomb lands directly on their heads as they stretch their arms first thing in the morning.

jmayo

jmreire wrote: »

Or maybe not... could be the best advertisement against isis we could have.....because,like it or not, according to the law of the lane, she is being brought back to Ireland, and according to leos' latest on the subject, the sooner the better...they are assembling selected isis member's like Lisa, and when they have a group together, they will bring them back to their respective Countries. It is being done through the Red Cross. I am not trying to make a case for isis or Lisa.. ( the opposite in fact...I have nothing except contempt and hatred for isis ) but facts are facts,,,and that is what you have to accept, like it or not. So I try to look at the positive side of it.

Surely you mean the Red Crescent ?

ISIS have a thing about what they term "the nations of the cross" and the only use for crosses they had was to crucify christians.

Personally I would leave it up to the Magen David Adom to take care of her

jmreire

jmayo wrote: »

Surely you mean the Red Crescent ?

ISIS have a thing about what they term "the nations of the cross" and the only use for crosses they had was to crucify christians.

Personally I would leave it up to the Magen David Adom to take care of her

In any Country the ICRC ( international Committee of the Red Cross ) work in, they work with the National Society of that Country,,, in Syria, its the Syrian Red Crescent. So they are in support of the National Society, but in addition to this, because they have global experience on a large scale so they work together, (as is the case in Syria ) In a case like what we are discussing ( Lisa ) the ICRC will be the lead agency because of the different Country's involved. I seem to remember Leo mentioning that the Red Cross would be the main agency in Lisa's repatriation, coming with a statement fro the President of the ICRC, Dr. Maurer, that repatriation will be organised by the ICRC. So the wheels are already in Motion.
I am well aware of what isis is capable of...

LordBasil

They should be put on trial for treason. ISIS are against every value Ireland and the western world has and therefore their supporters should be held accountable.

jmreire

malinheader wrote: »

How do you see this as the best advertisment against ISIS. On what grounds would this harm ISIS.

1st point: Lisa will be coming back to Ireland ( assuming that she survives where she presently is)
2nd point: So what to do with her?
3rd point: Put her in prison? shakey plan...no crime committed here in Ireland. Try her for crimes committed in another Country? Also very uncertain outcome. So, monitor her closely? Legally, all highly questionable actions.
4th point: So what to do with Lisa???? Change her view point, get her preaching against isis... massive anti-isis propaganda spearheaded by Lisa. After all, she has 1st hand experience of isis propaganda,,, no one know's them better.

The more the truth is published about isis, showing what they really were like, the more it will damage them.
At the very least, it's worth a try....if it does not work.....well a different approach would be needed.

Gatling

Boggles wrote: »

In your mind.

Nice try trolling

malinheader

jmreire wrote: »

1st point: Lisa will be coming back to Ireland ( assuming that she survives where she presently is)
2nd point: So what to do with her?
3rd point: Put her in prison? shakey plan...no crime committed here in Ireland. Try her for crimes committed in another Country? Also very uncertain outcome. So, monitor her closely? Legally, all highly questionable actions.
4th point: So what to do with Lisa???? Change her view point, get her preaching against isis... massive anti-isis propaganda spearheaded by Lisa. After all, she has 1st hand experience of isis propaganda,,, no one know's them better.

The more the truth is published about isis, showing what they really were like, the more it will damage them.
At the very least, it's worth a try....if it does not work.....well a different approach would be needed.

What is going to tell or say that we don't already know. Rapes,torture. Beheadings, mass murder the list goes on. Some people really need to sit back and think what these people were part of. They wernt over there as spectators. I think anyone who agrees to taking back these scum really does not know the true scale of the atrocitys this group had undertaken . Don't need Lisa to tell us what we already know.

jmreire

malinheader wrote: »

What is going to tell or say that we don't already know. Rapes,torture. Beheadings, mass murder the list goes on. Some people really need to sit back and think what these people were part of. They wernt over there as spectators. I think anyone who agrees to taking back these scum really does not know the true scale of the atrocitys this group had undertaken . Don't need Lisa to tell us what we already know.

Malinheader....most people know very well what isis have done.The point is,Lisa is coming back to Ireland whether we like it or not. The question is now what to do with her? Do you or anyone else have any suggestions? Believe me I don't want her or any isis member's here on earth, never mind here in Ireland.

jmayo

jmreire wrote: »

1st point: Lisa will be coming back to Ireland ( assuming that she survives where she presently is)
2nd point: So what to do with her?
3rd point: Put her in prison? shakey plan...no crime committed here in Ireland. Try her for crimes committed in another Country? Also very uncertain outcome. So, monitor her closely? Legally, all highly questionable actions.
4th point: So what to do with Lisa???? Change her view point, get her preaching against isis... massive anti-isis propaganda spearheaded by Lisa. After all, she has 1st hand experience of isis propaganda,,, no one know's them better.

The more the truth is published about isis, showing what they really were like, the more it will damage them.
At the very least, it's worth a try....if it does not work.....well a different approach would be needed.

Ehh no we don't need her to tell us all about it, just like we didn't need SS guards to tell us all how bad a death camp was.

I notice this tact adopted by those who always wanted her back, she will be able to give us information about them.

BTW you keep referring to her christian name, oops should that be first name.

Have you personal connection to her by any chance ?

AlekSmart

Boggles wrote: »

I think we can both agree without further argument that they are 2 separate people?

You pair may well agree on this "Seperate People" theory,but be aware that a great many of your Islamic friends (Isis'y types most likely) will beg to differ....

https://www.al-islam.org/principles-marriage-family-ethics-ayatullah-ibrahim-amini/part-1-duties-women#accept-his-management

Accept His Management

..............

The Almighty Allah states in the Holy Qur'an:

الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ وَبِمَا أَنْفَقُوا مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ ۚ فَالصَّالِحَاتُ قَانِتَاتٌ

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their money; the good women are therefore obedient... (4:34)."

Thus it is in the interest of the members of a family to regard the man as their guardian and the one in charge, and to seek his supervision in their deeds.

That seems clear enough to my lapsed Catholic head,but if any further clarification was required,it is readily available....

Dear Madam! Accept the authority of your husband. Seek his supervision in your household affairs. Do not violate his orders. Do not resist or oppose his participation in the household and family matters. Do not reject his participation even in those matters that you have more expertise. Do not practically make him powerless. Let him participate in your work occasionally. Teach your children to respect his authority, and ask them to get permission from their father in their affairs. Your children must learn not to violate his orders from an early age. This way your children will be brought up as obedient to their parents.

With Ms Smith and Ms Begum being relative co-habitants in terms of their "home" countries,I would see the pair of them being included in a package of Isis types to be repatriated to the UK/Ireland.

I have little doubt but they will have plenty of opportunity to share respective experiences together,before arriving safely back amongst the unbelievers.

Whilst the UK at least,having had recent experience of radicalized Islamic attacks,such as the Lee Rigby murder,has taken a harder,more pragmatic line with Ms Begum,our Government appears to favour,a more benign,understanding inclusive approach.

It remains to be seen which approach will be of greatest benefit to the Non Radicalized,ordinary decent citizens of both countries.

Boggles

AlekSmart wrote: »

You pair may well agree on this "Seperate People" theory,but be aware that a great many of your Islamic friends (Isis'y types most likely) will beg to differ....

https://www.al-islam.org/principles-marriage-family-ethics-ayatullah-ibrahim-amini/part-1-duties-women#accept-his-management

Accept His Management

..............

That seems clear enough to my lapsed Catholic head,but if any further clarification was required,it is readily available....



With Ms Smith and Ms Begum being relative co-habitants in terms of their "home" countries,I would see the pair of them being included in a package of Isis types to be repatriated to the UK/Ireland.

I have little doubt but they will have plenty of opportunity to share respective experiences together,before arriving safely back amongst the unbelievers.

Whilst the UK at least,having had recent experience of radicalized Islamic attacks,such as the Lee Rigby murder,has taken a harder,more pragmatic line with Ms Begum,our Government appears to favour,a more benign,understanding inclusive approach.

It remains to be seen which approach will be of greatest benefit to the Non Radicalized,ordinary decent citizens of both countries.

No, they were definitely separate people before they went Syria and they continue to be.

Unless you have unearthed some new scientific evidence to the contrary?

jmreire

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh no we don't need her to tell us all about it, just like we didn't need SS guards to tell us all how bad a death camp was.

I notice this tact adopted by those who always wanted her back, she will be able to give us information about them.

BTW you keep referring to her christian name, oops should that be first name.

Have you personal connection to her by any chance ?

The nazi death camps had been running for several years before the world knew about it....and if the Germans had won, I guess that we would never have heard about them, unless we might get to personally experience them. If it makes you Happy I will call her Lisa Smith.......but at the moment, when you mention Lisa and isis in the same breath, there is no confusion about which Lisa we are discussing. Unless there is another one???
Believe me when I say that I would prefer that she and anyone else like her remain as far away from Ireland as possible...but as I have mentioned several times in fact, she IS coming back to Ireland.
I am not interested in hearing anymore about the atrocities that isis committed, from anyone. I know enough already. BUT I would like very much if Lisa Smith were to appear on TV, be interviewed on Radio, write articles in the newspapers, and all from a completely anti-isis viewpoint. Remember, in the caliphate, isis had a complete societal system set up...they had medical facilities, police and judiciary, taxation, Banking etc. everything that a "normal" society would be expected to have.....and they sold this idea to thousands and thousands of people all around the world, including our very own Lisa Smith. So how did they do it? What exactly did they do to attract so many people to their banner? The atrocity angle everyone knows about.... but its not the only one. And if we are to even try to prevent other's from following Lisa's footsteps, we need to investigate this angle too. Assuming that she renounces isis, She would prove to be a very important asset in this.
And no, she is no relation.

eagle eye

jmreire wrote:

Malinheader....most people know very well what isis have done.The point is,Lisa is coming back to Ireland whether we like it or not. The question is now what to do with her? Do you or anyone else have any suggestions? Believe me I don't want her or any isis member's here on earth, never mind here in Ireland.

We should be trying to stop this. We should be looking for changes to be made to our laws to prevent us taking her back.
People need to stand up against things like this.

paw patrol

LordBasil wrote: »

They should be put on trial for treason. ISIS are against every value Ireland and the western world has and therefore their supporters should be held accountable.

seems a ****ty reason for a treason charge , she did nothing against Ireland.

Syria wasn't our war, if anything our tacit support to the nations operating over there was encouraging the aggressors.

.

jmreire

paw patrol wrote: »

seems a ****ty reason for a treason charge , she did nothing against Ireland.

Syria wasn't our war, if anything our tacit support to the nations operating over there was encouraging the aggressors.

.

Treason is often mentioned here on Boards....but does any one know when was the last time anyone was actually charged with treason here in Ireland??
Speaking about the aggressors, one thing you can say about isis, they were very fair in their hatred of anyone and everything that was not isis. No discrimination there...

Danzy

Boggles wrote: »

I didn't say that. That is the outrage is you mind and your quest to be as E-Hard as you can be.



She was a child that was groomed.

That is not just my opinion.

She was old enough to know genocide, mass rape, sex slave markets etc were not to be supported never mind actively facilitated.

end of the road

eagle eye wrote: »

We should be trying to stop this. We should be looking for changes to be made to our laws to prevent us taking her back.
People need to stand up against things like this.

quite rightly, there is nothing we can do to stop this. no changes can be made to our laws or international law, to allow us to get out of taking responsibility for our problem citizens. people are going to have to come to terms with the realities here.

jmreire

end of the road wrote: »

quite rightly, there is nothing we can do to stop this. no changes can be made to our laws or international law, to allow us to get out of taking responsibility for our problem citizens. people are going to have to come to terms with the realities here.

True. Unpalatable as it may be, we are responsible for our citizens. Even if we could " dump" these people on another Country...it could only be done if we were prepared to accept "rejects" from those self same Countries. So better the devil you know, than the one you don't. But, in my opinion. we should not grant the same concession's to people who were "Naturalised" after spending a few years in direct provision......and repaid our largesse by joining isis. These people were lost to isis long before they became Irish Citizens, so remove their citizenship and kick them out.

end of the road

jmreire wrote: »

True. Unpalatable as it may be, we are responsible for our citizens. Even if we could " dump" these people on another Country...it could only be done if we were prepared to accept "rejects" from those self same Countries. So better the devil you know, than the one you don't. But, in my opinion. we should not grant the same concession's to people who were "Naturalised" after spending a few years in direct provision......and repaid our largesse by joining isis. These people were lost to isis long before they became Irish Citizens, so remove their citizenship and kick them out.

oh i absolutely agree. it is perfectly legal to remove the irish citizenship of naturalised citizens as the country of which they have another citizenship is their country of birth. i believe we do this already and it is perfectly justifiable.

AlekSmart

Boggles wrote: »

No, they were definitely separate people before they went Syria and they continue to be.

Unless you have unearthed some new scientific evidence to the contrary?

The "before they went to Syria" bit is entirely apposite,for sure.

There's not a snowballs chance in Hell of anybody unearthing anything "scientific" in relation to the belief structures and mental state of Ms Smith and her fellow adherents to their book....not a hope.

The only evidence (definitely NON Scientific!) we can go on,is what we hear and what we see,of these people's belief structure,which I would rather hear coming from some Far Flung Islamic homeland,than from a few KM up beyond Mosney !

malinheader

end of the road wrote: »

quite rightly, there is nothing we can do to stop this. no changes can be made to our laws or international law, to allow us to get out of taking responsibility for our problem citizens. people are going to have to come to terms with the realities here.

This is why more innocent people will be slaughtered, this is why we will be targeted at Christmas markets, concerts and just plainly making our way to work. I know that what you're quoting is law but how can you play within the rules when dealing with a threat like this. The west is seen as weak by ISIS and unless we toughen up and change some of our laws to protect our countries we are only going to see more bloodshed on our streets. How can a country let its citizens take off and commit mass murder, genocide, rape, torture and then let them back knowing full well there will be no evidence or grounds for punishment or justice when they are back and also the amount of resources it going to take to watch these scum to make sure they don't start there killing closer to home.

jmreire

malinheader wrote: »

This is why more innocent people will be slaughtered, this is why we will be targeted at Christmas markets, concerts and just plainly making our way to work. I know that what you're quoting is law but how can you play within the rules when dealing with a threat like this. The west is seen as weak by ISIS and unless we toughen up and change some of our laws to protect our countries we are only going to see more bloodshed on our streets. How can a country let its citizens take off and commit mass murder, genocide, rape, torture and then let them back knowing full well there will be no evidence or grounds for punishment or justice when they are back and also the amount of resources it going to take to watch these scum to make sure they don't start there killing closer to home.

I can well understand where you are coming from malinheader, but for the foreseeable future at any rate...you wont see any jihadi attack's here in Ireland, if only because we are much more valuable to them as a logistics base than for any publicity gains they might make.The last thing any jihadi's want here in Ireland is for the spotlight to be turned on them. Plus we are not involved anywhere in direct attacks on Islamic Country's. A jihadi attack on Ireland would have a negative result for them. Equally, I am pretty sure that there are jihadi's already here, and have been for many years, so if they really wanted to commit a terrorist act, they would have already done so. And this has nothing to do with the case of Lisa Smith returning home, or staying in Al-Hol. We should be thankful that we only have 2, and not 100 or more returning home.Which is the case for a lot of Countries,,,and also one of the reasons that they are reluctant to take them home.

Boggles

Danzy wrote: »

She was old enough to know genocide, mass rape, sex slave markets etc were not to be supported never mind actively facilitated.

She was groomed, trafficked and raped basically for the slave market as a child.

But again the law is pretty clear on this.

So if you think a child is complicate in their own grooming, then belt it out. I would hope you are on your own with that belief.

AlekSmart wrote: »

The "before they went to Syria" bit is entirely apposite,for sure.

There's not a snowballs chance in Hell of anybody unearthing anything "scientific" in relation to the belief structures and mental state of Ms Smith and her fellow adherents to their book....not a hope.

The only evidence (definitely NON Scientific!) we can go on,is what we hear and what we see,of these people's belief structure,which I would rather hear coming from some Far Flung Islamic homeland,than from a few KM up beyond Mosney !

They were definitely 2 separate people though. Correct?

K.Flyer

jmreire wrote: »

I can well understand where you are coming from malinheader, but for the foreseeable future at any rate...you wont see any jihadi attack's here in Ireland, if only because we are much more valuable to them as a logistics base than for any publicity gains they might make.

I think the government taking that sort of benign attitude could very well become a huge problem for us further down the road.
I cannot remember the place that I read the statistics, but per capita, Ireland was very high on the list of the numbers who went to fight with ISIS, so it is quite likely that we will see a lot more Irish passport holders trying to get back here. Depending on survival rates, that figure could be twenty or more.
The government needs to get its finger out and produce robust legislation on these matters and ensure that being found guilty of Any activity involving national or international terrorism carries severe penalties, including loss of passports and deportation.
But, I don't expect any of that to happen too soon because our spineless government will be sh!tting themselves in case they are seen to be wasist
I haven't heard a peep out of them to condemn the implementation of Sharia Law in Brunei that gay people will be stoned to death.

Boggles

K.Flyer wrote: »

But, I don't expect any of that to happen too soon because our spineless government will be sh!tting themselves in case they are seen to be wasist
I haven't heard a peep out of them to condemn the implementation of Sharia Law in Brunei that gay people will be stoned to death.

Have they been asked about it? Or do you expect Leo to call a press conference on it specifically?

Both the UN and EU have condemned it.

98q76e12hrflnk

Boggles wrote: »

She was groomed, trafficked and raped basically for the slave market as a child.

But again the law is pretty clear on this.

So if you think a child is complicate in their own grooming, then belt it out. I would hope you are on your own with that belief.



They were definitely 2 separate people though. Correct?

Well thats BS.
Where do you get all this information? oh yes you make it up.

Boggles

declan2693 wrote: »

Well thats BS.
Where do you get all this information? oh yes you make it up.

Groomed - The Met.

Trafficked - Guy arrested in Turkey admitted it to trafficking and facilitating her illegal entry into Syria.

Raped - She was 15.

Anything else?

Just for clarity once more, because it is getting very creepy, the girl was a child.

98q76e12hrflnk

Boggles wrote: »

Groomed - The Met.
What did they do about Rotterdam?

Trafficked - Guy arrested in Turkey admitted it to trafficking and facilitating her illegal entry into Syria.

She willingly went

Raped - She was 15.

In western laws its rape. What are the legal age in Syria?