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ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

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    #2762
    SporadicMan
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭SporadicMan


    mad muffin wrote: »
    If she thinks she’s going to have a nice and easy, and quiet life, if she gets back. She is as delusional now as she was when she joined isis. And her family’s life will be absolutely torn apart.

    She'll absolutely have an easy life when she gets back. Do you think there's anyone with a bit of backbone left in this whimpering mess of a country?

    We're literally doing all we can to bring back a mental woman who joined ****ing ISIS. We've lost all sense of self preservation.


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    #2763
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    SporadicMan wrote: »

    We're literally doing all we can to bring back a mental woman who joined ****ing ISIS

    That's insane. I know the government had rejected a plan to bring her home. Was it the RTE interview that convinced them to change their minds?


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    #2764
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    SporadicMan wrote: »
    She'll absolutely have an easy life when she gets back. Do you think there's anyone with a bit of backbone left in this whimpering mess of a country?

    We're literally doing all we can to bring back a mental woman who joined ****ing ISIS. We've lost all sense of self preservation.

    Never mind that. She will be a celebrity down at the local Mosque. The story she will be selling is "Once you have an Irish Passport, you can do what ever the hell you want abroad and the Irish Government will come and get you out faster than the A-Team". Have we heard this story before? Is it happening again?

    I think the Department of Foreign Affairs are amazing in what they can do in emergency and where 2nd and 3rd secretaries can generate goodwill. That good will can be stretched and abused. You never want calling in favours the morning after shi**ing the bed the previous night.


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    #2765
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    How much longer can she be held in Syria without facing some kind of trial? Has a date for her trial been set yet?


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    #2766
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    How much longer can she be held in Syria without facing some kind of trial? Has a date for her trial been set yet?

    That is a matter for the Syrian Government, it would be wrong for the Irish Government to try and influence either a military/civil judge through diplomatic channels.


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    #2767
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    That is a matter for the Syrian Government, it would be wrong for the Irish Government to try and influence either a military/civil judge through diplomatic channels.

    I don't believe the Syrian Government currently has any control over that area. It's territory that is illegally held by the Kurds.
    The UN has called for people there to be either sent to trial or countries to take responsibility for their citizens.


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    #2768
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    The UN has called for people there to be either sent to trial or countries to take responsibility for their citizens.

    The UN should but out. The UN stood idly by for years while this was going on and now it hasnt turn out the way they planned, they think they occupy the high moral ground on this one.

    What does "take responsibility for their citizens" mean? Does that mean we have to fly her back on the government jet and rehabilitate her or does it mean we have to pay for a round and a shroud?

    How we can try her for a crime she has not committed on Irish soil? So she gets off scott free? The mind boggles


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    #2769
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    What does "take responsibility for their citizens" mean? Does that mean we have to fly her back on the government jet and rehabilitate her or does it mean we have to pay for a round and a shroud?

    The Kurds have held trials and found many guilty of ISIS membership. Eventually women from that camp will have to stand trial or be considered innocent and let go. What should Ireland do if the Kurds request that we repatriate her?


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    #2770
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    What should Ireland do if the Kurds request that we repatriate her?

    That is a wide open question. Does that mean she serve her sentence in the womens prison (Butlins for head bangers)? Does that we just take her back no questions asked. She is not in the same league as the London girl in ISIS. She was a trained soldier who had experience of the world.

    I would be for sending them out an orange box and 3 yards of rope.


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    #2771
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,539 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Where the Kurd's have managed to capture isis members who they know 100% committed atrocities, for sure by now, they have been tried, convicted and executed. In other cases, Iraqi isis members under a deal negotiated between the Iraqi Government and the Tribal Elder's, large Nrs of Iraqi isis members have been sent back to Iraq, where they have been placed under the control of the Tribe's they are from. The Elders have given guarantees as to the future behavior of the detainee's.
    Neither the Kurd's nor the Syrian Government want anything to do with the "Foreign" isis captive's they presently hold....they want them out...ASAP. There is presently about 70'000 isis members in Al-Hasakah, which had been planner for between 5-8'000 people, So it's bursting at the seams.. literally. They want other Country's to take responsibility for their citizens. If the Irish Government had officially requested that Lisa be repatriated, she would be back at home by now. While I don't think that it will be easy to extract her, neither will it be impossible.There are organization's working in that region, on the ground that have the contact's and more important, the permission's needed to move freely around. These will be the people who will collect Lisa and her Child, and get her to the Jordan border, from where she can be met by whoever the Government decides, and escorted home. Talks of sending in the military etc. is out if the question. The other alternative is to let nature takes it's course, and let her find her own way home.


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    #2772
    SporadicMan
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭SporadicMan


    I can only assume that since we're doing what we can to bring her back to Ireland, we'll be very swift to deport non-nationals who commit crime here?


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    #2773
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    SporadicMan wrote: »
    I can only assume that since we're doing what we can to bring her back to Ireland, we'll be very swift to deport non-nationals who commit crime here?

    Doubt that will happen.. This is Ireland remember. It'll be a nice pad and benefits for Smith on arrival and suspended sentences for those foreign nationals who commit crimes.


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    #2774
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    The UN should but out. The UN stood idly by for years while this was going on and now it hasnt turn out the way they planned, they think they occupy the high moral ground on this one.

    What does any of that mean? You do say some daft stuff, do you know that?
    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    What does "take responsibility for their citizens" mean? Does that mean we have to fly her back on the government jet and rehabilitate her or does it mean we have to pay for a round and a shroud?

    It means, Ireland should repatriate and apply the appropriate laws of the land to any Irish citizens in Syria.


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    #2775
    Field east
    Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭Field east


    jmreire wrote: »
    Where the Kurd's have managed to capture isis members who they know 100% committed atrocities, for sure by now, they have been tried, convicted and executed. In other cases, Iraqi isis members under a deal negotiated between the Iraqi Government and the Tribal Elder's, large Nrs of Iraqi isis members have been sent back to Iraq, where they have been placed under the control of the Tribe's they are from. The Elders have given guarantees as to the future behavior of the detainee's.
    Neither the Kurd's nor the Syrian Government want anything to do with the "Foreign" isis captive's they presently hold....they want them out...ASAP. There is presently about 70'000 isis members in Al-Hasakah, which had been planner for between 5-8'000 people, So it's bursting at the seams.. literally. They want other Country's to take responsibility for their citizens. If the Irish Government had officially requested that Lisa be repatriated, she would be back at home by now. While I don't think that it will be easy to extract her, neither will it be impossible.There are organization's working in that region, on the ground that have the contact's and more important, the permission's needed to move freely around. These will be the people who will collect Lisa and her Child, and get her to the Jordan border, from where she can be met by whoever the Government decides, and escorted home. Talks of sending in the military etc. is out if the question. The other alternative is to let nature takes it's course, and let her find her own way home.
    What if the Kurds put her through their court procedure system and if found guilty of ISIS membership or whatever and given, say, 10 years jail, that the Kurds only agree to repatriate her to Ireland on the condition that she serves the
    Same time in an Irish jail. I reckon that this would cost the Irish tax payer less than she being tracked by security as she freely Rome’s around the country with her bag and its ‘contents’
    NOTE that in a previous post I made the point that she could play the role of a ‘SLEEPER’ for ISIS. I should have added that sleepers, by the nature of what they have in mind, are not known re their intentions. But in this situation we are aware of the potential intentions of a possible sleeper.


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    #2776
    Signore Fancy Pants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    It is highly likely that in the event of a return of Lisa Smith and the lack of a national de-radicalisation programme, she will continue to support ISIL and the formation of a Caliphate.

    In this context, she is likely to seek out like minded individuals or aid in attempts to convert loose symphatisers towards that belief.

    It is further likely that she will become a facilitator, be it propaganda, funding, travel advice or training.

    It is unlikely that she will become an "active" ISIL jihadist. Nevertheless, a facilitator is as bad as an active jihadist.

    Is that what people want in Ireland? Another one of these d1ckheads?


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    #2777
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    The most important element of this story for our Taoiseach is that he got to say that he wouldn’t separate children from their mothers on TV.
    Very important for his political career that he distance himself from Trump.


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    #2778
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,539 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Field east wrote: »
    What if the Kurds put her through their court procedure system and if found guilty of ISIS membership or whatever and given, say, 10 years jail, that the Kurds only agree to repatriate her to Ireland on the condition that she serves the
    Same time in an Irish jail. I reckon that this would cost the Irish tax payer less than she being tracked by security as she freely Rome’s around the country with her bag and its ‘contents’
    NOTE that in a previous post I made the point that she could play the role of a ‘SLEEPER’ for ISIS. I should have added that sleepers, by the nature of what they have in mind, are not known re their intentions. But in this situation we are aware of the potential intentions of a possible sleeper.

    If she had been identified by any of the Yazidis as being one of the isis that ill-treated them, she would have met her fate long ago. There are 5 sub-camp's in Al-Hasakah divided according to how fanatical the occupants are.. two days ago, one woman asked for permission to visit another camp, and when she got her chance, she stabbed the guard who was escorting her in the back. In another camp, a kid climbed to the top of a building and hung an isis flag out. isis have claimed that the "Son's of the Martyr's" are "Cubs of the Lion's" to continue the fight. So isis has not gone away, and Lisa has not yet disowned them. She still thinks about joining the ideal Muslim Country. I don't think that she will be an asset for isis in Ireland....she will be too much under the microscope... at a cost of 1 million € per year. So while I feel sorry for the child....I'm not in any hurry to welcome her home.


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    #2779
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,236 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »
    It is highly likely that in the event of a return of Lisa Smith and the lack of a national de-radicalisation programme, she will continue to support ISIL and the formation of a Caliphate.

    In this context, she is likely to seek out like minded individuals or aid in attempts to convert loose symphatisers towards that belief.

    It is further likely that she will become a facilitator, be it propaganda, funding, travel advice or training.

    It is unlikely that she will become an "active" ISIL jihadist. Nevertheless, a facilitator is as bad as an active jihadist.

    Is that what people want in Ireland? Another one of these d1ckheads?

    In all likely hood she will be able to do all that with impunity where ever she ends up.


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    #2780
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »
    What does any of that mean? You do say some daft stuff, do you know that?



    It means, Ireland should repatriate and apply the appropriate laws of the land to any Irish citizens in Syria.

    It means that Christians in Lebanon have been under threat for years, the UN has always looked the other way when it suited them. Same in Rwanda. I always thought the UN was a toothless talking shop, y'know jobs for the boys and what not. Then I started reading UN Agendas and realised they were discretely being implemented.

    How can you try a person in a different country to that in which they have commited the crime. Irish courts have no jurisdiction in Syria. You dont even need to be a lawyer to know that.


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    #2781
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    splinter65 wrote: »
    The most important element of this story for our Taoiseach is that he got to say that he wouldn’t separate children from their mothers on TV.
    Very important for his political career that he distance himself from Trump.

    Might want to look at what is going on with Tusla. You know an organisation can change its name but its functions and the type of people who run it stay the same. Varadkar will say anything that makes him sound popular. The guy is one big sound bite.


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    #2782
    jaxxx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    You've made your bed, now lie in it. END OF.


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    #2783
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Has anyone actually heard of anyone who has been denationalised? Their passport revoked and citizenship stripped? I was told it could done in closed cabinet so it would be under government papers secrecy and may not be opened for 30/50 years.


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    #2784
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    splinter65 wrote: »
    The most important element of this story for our Taoiseach is that he got to say that he wouldn’t separate children from their mothers on TV.
    Very important for his political career that he distance himself from Trump.

    Exactly, he doesn't care about the Irish public all he cares about is his image and how his peers in Europe see him. Why wouldn't you take a hard line with a person who left a country to join an organisation that attacks similar countries? It's mind boggling how soft the West has become with all this crap.


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    #2785
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Has anyone actually heard of anyone who has been denationalised? Their passport revoked and citizenship stripped? I was told it could done in closed cabinet so it would be under government papers secrecy and may not be opened for 30/50 years.

    She cannot be stripped of her irish citizenship. To suggest that is just nonsense


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    #2786
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    She cannot be stripped of her irish citizenship. To suggest that is just nonsense

    Not so sure on that one.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/shane-phelan-there-have-only-ever-been-five-revocations-of-irish-citizenship-its-a-rare-occurrence-37727311.html

    It still could happen we need to draw the line in the sand on this one.


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    #2787
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Not so sure on that one.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/shane-phelan-there-have-only-ever-been-five-revocations-of-irish-citizenship-its-a-rare-occurrence-37727311.html

    It still could happen we need to draw the line in the sand on this one.

    perhaps read an article before linking to it.


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    #2788
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    perhaps read an article before linking to it.

    Maybe we need to expand the legislation on this one?


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    #2789
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Maybe we need to expand the legislation on this one?

    removing irish citizenship from people who have it from birth is probably one of the dumbest suggestions i've seen on boards.


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    #2790
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    removing irish citizenship from people who have it from birth is probably one of the dumbest suggestions i've seen on boards.

    And from a poster that knows by now that it is illegal for a country to make someone stateless.


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    #2791
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    removing irish citizenship from people who have it from birth is probably one of the dumbest suggestions i've seen on boards.

    I agree it is a very dangerous precedent to set and where do you draw the line afterwards with the state but she is clearly guilty of deserting the state and taking up arms against its interests.

    There are "neater" ways of doing it that get the same desired effects.


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