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ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

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    #2792
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    I agree it is a very dangerous precedent to set and where do you draw the line afterwards with the state but she is clearly guilty of deserting the state and taking up arms against its interests.
    what specific offence is "deserting the state"?
    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    There are "neater" ways of doing it that get the same desired effects.
    there does seem to be a sickening bloodlust from you and others. Precisely the sort of thing you would condemn if ISIS did it.


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    #2793
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,645 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Has anyone actually heard of anyone who has been denationalised?
    It's against international law to leave a person stateless.

    And Ireland has never revoked the citizenship of somebody who acquired it by birth (as opposed to naturalisation). I doubt such a process even exists.

    UK talked long and hard about doing it with Shamima Begum but haven't been able to do so yet.

    On the general topic, whenever a foreigner here (or even a citizen through naturalisation) commits some horrible crime, the general trend on places like Boards is that they should be sent back to wherever they came from (either after prison, or immediately, to serve the sentence there). I guess that the Kurds/Syrians feel the same about her - she should be sent back to wherever she came from.

    Unfortunately for us, she comes from here. When nobody else will take her, I guess we will have to.


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    #2794
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    what specific offence is "deserting the state"?


    there does seem to be a sickening bloodlust from you and others. Precisely the sort of thing you would condemn if ISIS did it.

    Considering that ISIS is fighting our allies (WEU) and other military agreement we are part of. She is by de facto fighting the Irish state.

    We cannot continue on the way we are going handing out passports and citizenships to every yahoo who turn up at our door and then have them turn up 6 months later in the hands of the Syrians or Kurds/NATO MPs. There has to be a line drawn somewhere.


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    #2795
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,124 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Considering that ISIS is fighting our allies (WEU) and other military agreement we are part of. She is by de facto fighting the Irish state.

    We cannot continue on the way we are going handing out passports and citizenships to every yahoo who turn up at our door and then have them turn up 6 months later in the hands of the Syrians or Kurds/NATO MPs. There has to be a line drawn somewhere.




    She's an irish citizen of irish ethnicity born to irish citizens of irish ethnicity.


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    #2796
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    osarusan wrote: »
    Unfortunately for us, she comes from here. When nobody else will take her, I guess we will have to.

    How about we let her keep her citizenship but do not allow her to return? Many States refused to take back fighters from Afghanistan after the Russians retreated. I wonder why?


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    #2797
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    osarusan wrote: »
    I guess that the Kurds feel the same about her - she should be sent back to wherever she came from.

    Unfortunately for us, she comes from here. When nobody else will take her, I guess we will have to.

    This is true, the Kurds don't have the resources or desire to deal with all these foreigners causing trouble in land they control.
    If they had the resources to send them on planes home they would.

    And before someone say it, no they are not going to just slaughter thousands of of women and children.


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    #2798
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    osarusan wrote: »

    On the general topic, whenever a foreigner here (or even a citizen through naturalisation) commits some horrible crime, the general trend on places like Boards is that they should be sent back to wherever they came from (either after prison, or immediately, to serve the sentence there).

    Actually not necessarily true we've had situations where foreigners commit serious crimes and get granted asylum after they have been convicted.


    Only one way to deal with some like your one and that is permanently removed word it anyway you want she's a terrorist and traitor to the state
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #2799
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Considering that ISIS is fighting our allies (WEU) and other military agreement we are part of. She is by de facto fighting the Irish state.


    the WEU has been defunct since 2011. we have a mutual defence agreement with some countries but that is all.
    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    We cannot continue on the way we are going handing out passports and citizenships to every yahoo who turn up at our door and then have them turn up 6 months later in the hands of the Syrians or Kurds/NATO MPs. There has to be a line drawn somewhere.
    irrelevant in this case


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    #2800
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    How about we let her keep her citizenship but do not allow her to return? Many States refused to take back fighters from Afghanistan after the Russians retreated. I wonder why?

    there is no mechanism to prevent her entering the state


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    #2801
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    This is true, the Kurds don't have the resources or desire to deal with all these foreigners causing trouble in land they control.
    If they had the resources to send them on planes home they would.

    And before someone say it, no they are not going to just slaughter thousands of of women and children.

    .... and for years the Kurds have had their own children and women gassed mortared and raped for years by opposing forces. You think they are going to turn the other cheek now the tables have turned?


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    #2802
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    .... and for years the Kurds have had their own children and women gassed mortared and raped for years by opposing forces. You think they are going to turn the other cheek now the tables have turned?

    does that seem to be what they are doing. they are a lot more civilised than some here.


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    #2803
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    there is no mechanism to prevent her entering the state

    ....... not yet. But it cant continue this way


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    #2804
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    ....... not yet. But it cant continue this way

    one does not exist and there is no intention to introduce one.


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    #2805
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    one does not exist and there is no intention to introduce one.

    It could be an election issue.


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    #2806
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    It could be an election issue.

    only amongst fringe lunatics


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    #2807
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    only amongst fringe lunatics

    Agreed, that is how lunatics get into power because the powers that be dont put it down hard and fast on the first day.


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    #2808
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    only amongst fringe lunatics

    It's still possible it's worth the debate rather than people saying no no no
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #2809
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Gatling wrote: »
    It's still possible it's worth the debate rather than people saying no no no

    it really isn't. It is beyond stupid. If somebody has broken irish law then prosecute them.


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    #2810
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    there does seem to be a sickening bloodlust from you and others. Precisely the sort of thing you would condemn if ISIS did it.

    You are very naive to think that the Irish state has never done this sort of thing before or gotten a cleanskin to do it for them


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    #2811
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    You are very naive to think that the Irish state has never done this sort of thing before or gotten a cleanskin to do it for them

    put down the chris ryan books


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    #2812
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,645 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    How about we let her keep her citizenship but do not allow her to return? Many States refused to take back fighters from Afghanistan after the Russians retreated. I wonder why?


    I don't know about other countries' citizenship laws (although they are to a certain extent bound to international law anyway), but I don't think Ireland has any way to stop an Irish citizen returning to Ireland. I think this would effectively be the same as leaving them stateless (if they were not a citizen of any other country).


    As far as I'm aware (and I haven't followed it too closely), Lisa Smith has not acquired any other citizenship anyway.


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    #2813
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    it really isn't. It is beyond stupid. If somebody has broken irish law then prosecute them.

    What bring them back here and all the expense of a trial? Then an appeal and if it all works out and doesnt sue the state. We then hold her in the womens prison where she is in with 150 real head bangers to convert? Mother of Jesus!!!


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    #2814
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    osarusan wrote: »


    As far as I'm aware (and I haven't followed it too closely), Lisa Smith has not acquired any other citizenship anyway.

    Wasnt she married to some muslim guy? She can return to his state and claim residency there. If Ireland wasnt good enough for her surely that state cant be any worse?


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    #2815
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Wasnt she married to some muslim guy? She can return to his state and claim residency there. If Ireland wasnt good enough for her surely that state cant be any worse?

    Marriage is not citizenship.
    She won't be let in without citizenship of that country.


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    #2816
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    it really isn't. It is beyond stupid.

    Why is it beyond stupid ,

    She's a terrorist and null and voids her rights anyone supporting her to be brought back and essentially freed without any prosecution needs to look at themselves would you like her living beside you and your family (or is that a stupid) too the thought of her living beside you and your loved one's
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #2817
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    Marriage is not citizenship.
    She won't be let in without citizenship of that country.

    Why not? he was British Born.


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    #2818
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,645 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Wasnt she married to some muslim guy? She can return to his state and claim residency there. If Ireland wasnt good enough for her surely that state cant be any worse?


    Wherever he was from - they don't want to take her, any more than we do. It's not a question of where she wants to go, it's a question of who, reluctantly, has to take her.


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    #2819
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    What bring them back here and all the expense of a trial? Then an appeal and if it all works out and doesnt sue the state. We then hold her in the womens prison where she is in with 150 real head bangers to convert? Mother of Jesus!!!

    that is what civilised countries do. as far as i am aware we are still a civilised country


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    #2820
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Why not? he was British Born.

    Was the marriage legitimate?
    If it was she can apply for British citizenship and see if they will accept it. I'm sure they would be delighted!


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    #2821
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Gatling wrote: »
    Why is it beyond stupid ,

    She's a terrorist and null and voids her rights anyone supporting her to be brought back and essentially freed without any prosecution needs to look at themselves would you like her living beside you and your family (or is that a stupid) too the thought of her living beside you and your loved one's

    I love NIMBY's none of this stuff gets real until it happens in their own backyard. Then they are all up in arms and down to the TD's office to give them a hair dryer.


This discussion has been closed.
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