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ISIS people returning thread - no Lisa Smith talk (21/12/19)

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    #2852
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    she doesnt have a criminal record. and she doesnt need a passport to enter the country. And i would still like to know when Adams was refused an irish passport. His issues with going to the US were visa related.

    She will have if convicted as combatant. She does need to show her Irish passport to prove her identity to enter. Actually I cannot find any evidence that he was denied an Irish passport ever but he was refused entry into the States for a quite a while in the 80's and early 90's.


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    #2853
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    That is very different, people can be blocked from leaving Ireland but not returning.
    If she arrives at an Irish port she has to be let in even with no passport. There is no country to send her to, either she is let in or she lives in the Airport terminal.

    You do know she has a history of violence stabbing a guard in Syria? She couldnt be let into a secure area like an airport. If she cant identify herself she shouldnt be left in


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    #2854
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    She will have if convicted as combatant. She does need to show her Irish passport to prove her identity to enter.

    Even if she is convicted that would not be a reason to stop her entering the country. If we did that we would be turning away a lot of people.She doesn't need a passport to prove her identity.
    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Actually I cannot find any evidence that he was denied an Irish passport ever but he was refused entry into the States for a quite a while in the 80's and early 90's.

    he was refused because the US would not give him a visa. no other reason.


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    #2855
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    You do know she has a history of violence stabbing a guard in Syria? She couldnt be let into a secure area like an airport. If she cant identify herself she shouldnt be left in

    Showing your passport on entry is just a quick way to confirm Irish citizenship.
    If someone was to get to passport control with no ID they would still be granted access once identity is confirmed.

    If she does make it to a country they will deport her and will advise Ireland that she is on the way. Security would be put in place at that point.
    We can't stop another country from putting one of our citizens on a plane.


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    #2856
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    If she cant identify herself she shouldnt be left in


    Come on, you are grasping now.

    If and when she arrives back here it'll be in a storm of publicity, everybody will know who she is.


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    #2857
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    Showing your passport on entry is just a quick way to confirm Irish citizenship.
    If someone was to get to passport control with no ID they would still be granted access once identity is confirmed.

    If she does make it to a country they will deport her and will advise Ireland that she is on the way. Security would be put in place at that point.
    We can't stop another country from putting one of our citizens on a plane.

    You are just not being creative enough. History of violence, one reason not to carry her on an aircraft, captains discretion. Its a long way to Passport control in Dublin Airport, with no passport this is likely taken away from her when she was taken captive. With no physical passport you are going to have a lot of difficult getting anywhere.


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    #2858
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    osarusan wrote: »
    If and when she arrives back here it'll be in a storm of publicity, everybody will know who she is.

    True and you think they will all be hanging yellow ribbons round the old oak tree?


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    #2859
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    True and you think they will all be hanging yellow ribbons round the old oak tree?

    So you accept that if she does land back in dublin then lack of a passport will not be a barrier to her getting in to the country.


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    #2860
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,539 ✭✭✭jmreire


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    You do know she has a history of violence stabbing a guard in Syria? She couldnt be let into a secure area like an airport. If she cant identify herself she shouldnt be left in

    The incident that I mentioned about a guard being stabbed in Al-Hawl, concerned another inmate in the camp, and had nothing to do with our Lisa. Have you heard about a different incident involving her ? There are 5 camps in total within Al-Hawl and as far as I know, Lisa is in a different camp than the real isis fundamentalists are in. They have to keep them separated because the fundamentalists would regard the other inmates as "traitors", and would kill them if the got the chance.


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    #2861
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    So you accept that if she does land back in dublin then lack of a passport will not be a barrier to her getting in to the country.

    "If Ifs and ands were pots and pans there would be no need for tinkers"

    You obviously never haven't come across the intransigence of the public/civil service/Government when you get their backs up. You cant prove who you are without a passport, out of date ID is no ID.
    This isnt Ibrihim Halawa where there is a suitcase full of cash waiting for the Taoiseach.


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    #2862
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    "If Ifs and ands were pots and pans there would be no need for tinkers"

    You obviously never haven't come across the intransigence of the public/civil service/Government when you get their backs up. You cant prove who you are without a passport, out of date ID is no ID.
    This isnt Ibrihim Halawa where there is a suitcase full of cash waiting for the Taoiseach.

    She has been on every national paper. she will have no trouble proving who she is


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    #2863
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    jmreire wrote: »
    The incident that I mentioned about a guard being stabbed in Al-Hawl, concerned another inmate in the camp, and had nothing to do with our Lisa.

    Oh I was refering to that incident. You still have to get an airline pilot to agree to take her. Feck it, just send out the MATS for her make her feel right at home. Remember, no bacon and no Jameson. My apologies there, Lisa, when you get back we can go for a few jars on me, hows about that? Just dont stab me or nothing.


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    #2864
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    She has been on every national paper. she will have no trouble proving who she is

    Try proving who you are to a government official without valid photo ID. I may know who you are but you have to prove who you are which are two different things entirely.


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    #2865
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Oh I was refering to that incident. You still have to get an airline pilot to agree to take her. Feck it, just send out the MATS for her make her feel right at home. Remember, no bacon and no Jameson.

    Any country she enters she will be there illegally. They can handcuff her, make her sit at the back and have security escort her. I don't think a pilot will have a problem with that but a chartered flight would still be cheaper for the country than keeping her so there are options for them and not too many for Ireland when she arrives here. The cost of keeping her in the airport indefinably would be far worse than letting her through after a lengthy interrogation.


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    #2866
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,539 ✭✭✭jmreire


    osarusan wrote: »
    I'd agree with this. I certainly wouldn't be happy for her to return here, and not be tried for any crime (there may be some crimes she can be charged with here. Some people have mentioned treason but I think that's a real stretch).


    Maybe the lost likely is that she'd be tried and convicted in Syria and either serve a long sentence there before being deported, or be repatriated to serve a long sentence here.

    It's not going to happen. Both the Kurd's and the Syrians want all "foreign" isis fighters returned to their own Country's ASAP. There is no court /prison system there as we would understand it. They ( both Syrians and Kurds ) have already sorted all males who fought with isis. The Iraqi ones have been repatriated to Iraq, and as for the Syrian isis fighter's that have been caught, after what they did..for the lucky ones, a bullet in the head. for the unlucky ones , I would not like to have been in their shoes. So as for Lisa being tried and sentenced in a court out there..( which would have been the ideal solution) but it's not going to happen. So like it or not, Lisa will be coming home, and not a thing can legally be done to stop her. The passport or not, will not make one bit of difference...most likely she will be transferred fro the camp to the Syrian / Jordan border and handed over to the Irish Government representatives...let that be Guard's, Military, or Consulate representative, and they will have travel documents for her. This is how I see it playing out,


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    #2867
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    tuxy wrote: »
    The cost of keeping her in the airport indefinably would be far worse than letting her through

    How much would it cost us
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    #2868
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    Any country she enters she will be there illegally. ............ The cost of keeping her in the airport indefinably would be far worse than letting her through after a lengthy interrogation.

    True. Or they could say go back to where you came from, You are an undocumented person, we dont want you here. The cost of cleaning up after 100 young potential Jihadis realise you can do whatever you like as long as you have an Irish Passport and the DFA will get you out.


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    #2869
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Gatling wrote: »
    How much would it cost us

    She would have to be watched like a hawk, 24/7. Still cheaper than inspiring 100 young Jihadi Seans that you can go out to Syria and do whatever you like.


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    #2870
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Gatling wrote: »
    How much would it cost us

    Everything in the Airport is a rip off
    Have you seen the price of sandwiches?


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    #2871
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    True. Or they could say go back to where you came from, You are an undocumented person, we dont want you here. The cost of cleaning up after 100 young potential Jihadis realise you can do whatever you like as long as you have an Irish Passport and the DFA will get you out.

    Which country could Ireland legally send her to?


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    #2872
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    tuxy wrote: »
    Everything in the Airport is a rip off
    Have you seen the price of sandwiches?

    She will have to starve I'm not driving out to buy her one any one else want to buy her one .
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #2873
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    jmreire wrote: »
    .......So like it or not, Lisa will be coming home, and not a thing can legally be done to stop her. The passport or not, will not make one bit of difference...most likely she will be transferred fro the camp to the Syrian / Jordan border and handed over to the Irish Government representatives...let that be Guard's, Military, or Consulate representative, and they will have travel documents for her. This is how I see it playing out,

    That sucks that the Irish government wont stand up for its own people (general law abiding population). What we have here is where the rule of law has been turned on its head and is a sign of a society crumbling. How does this make any sense. We are letting the wolf in with the sheep.


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    #2874
    jmreire
    Registered Users Posts: 8,539 ✭✭✭jmreire


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Oh I was refering to that incident. You still have to get an airline pilot to agree to take her. Feck it, just send out the MATS for her make her feel right at home. Remember, no bacon and no Jameson. My apologies there, Lisa, when you get back we can go for a few jars on me, hows about that? Just dont stab me or nothing.

    If ( and I still maintain that it's a very big IF ) due to Irish Government intervention she is released from Al-Hawl camp, it will all have been pre-planned...from the Camp in Syria to touch down in Dublin Airport ( and I presume Dublin Castle). There will not be any issue's with plane's or any other form's of transport, She will have a military escort to the Jordanian border, and handed over to the Irish Government Representative's. They will have all the necessary document's permits, etc's and they escort her all the way home. Under no circumstance's should any Irish Army units be involved in the process, at least on the territory of Syria.. whatever about on the Jordanian side.

    But on the other hand, she some how decides to make her own way home, then I think that she will have problems...but still.. she managed to get out there under her own steam.


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    #2875
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    tuxy wrote: »
    Which country could Ireland legally send her to?

    Well she has to get out of Syria, so whatever country she turns up in after that...... Ask some ISIS friendly Arab state to take her in.


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    #2876
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    True. Or they could say go back to where you came from, You are an undocumented person, we dont want you here.
    They won't do this. They can't do this.


    Again, this isn't a discussion about what we wish would happen, it's about what can or can't happen. Ireland cannot stop her from returning. Ireland cannot revoke her citizenship. Ireland can't pretend that staff just don't know who she is at the airport. Every single step of the journey would be known and coordinated in advance.


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    #2877
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    jmreire wrote: »
    If ( and I still maintain that it's a very big IF ) due to Irish Government intervention she is released from Al-Hawl camp, it will all have been pre-planned...from the Camp in Syria to touch down in Dublin Airport ( and I presume Dublin Castle). There will not be any issue's with plane's or any other form's of transport, She will have a military escort to the Jordanian border, and handed over to the Irish Government Representative's. They will have all the necessary document's permits, etc's and they escort her all the way home.

    That is just the state colluding against the citizens.


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    #2878
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    osarusan wrote: »
    Ireland can't pretend that staff just don't know who she is at the airport..

    Try claiming the dole without a passport or Social Services card. See how that goes.


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    #2879
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Well she has to get out of Syria, so whatever country she turns up in after that...... Ask some ISIS friendly Arab state to take her in.

    No I mean legally. Where could Ireland send her without breaking international law. Is there a country we have enough power over that we can force them to take our problems?


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    #2880
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    skooterblue2 wrote: »
    Try claiming the dole without a passport or Social Services card. See how that goes.

    I think in this case she would be handed everything including backdated social welfare and child benefit .


    Works out cheaper leaving her there so
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    #2881
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Gatling wrote: »

    Works out cheaper leaving her there so

    Is this part of some agenda you have against the Kurds?


This discussion has been closed.
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