Bank Account drained

Hi,

I've just realised a budget account off my Credit union account has been being drained by one account in Luxembourg apparently for the last couple of months.

Over all they've taken about e1000. Can't figure out what it might be. Didn't sign up for anything new around the time it started. They were taking up to three amounts on some days.

The Credit Union said there isn't much that can be done because I must have given them my Account no. and BIC.

Is there any way to get this back at all?

1874

Did you give out your account details as they say?
Even if so, Im not sure how that would entitle/enable them to drain your account?
Have you lodged a complaint/enquiry or tried to follow this up with them? or the financial regulator

Not that I know of?..it's a budget account too, so it's not the one I'd use for paying for anything, it would be the one you'd set up a direct debit with.

L1011

You should be able to recall the payments under SEPA - 13 months for unauthorised - and also block the originator. The Credit Union may have trouble figuring out how to do this if its not a common occurrence for them

vicwatson

Be frimer with your credit union "not much can be done" simply isn't good enough imo.

Ten Pin

Assuming that you did not agree to the money being debited, then the payments are unauthorised or fraudulent.

Did CU do anymore than say they can't do anything? Did they at least say they'd investigate further? Or suggest reporting it to Gardai? Or block any future payments to that originator?

Or will they just keep allowing debits as long as there's money in your account? Maybe the person you spoke to doesn't know the steps to follow in these situations, but they should know who to refer you to within the CU to sort it out.

amcalester

Are they direct debits or recurring card transactions?

amcalester

amcalester wrote: »

Are they direct debits or recurring card transactions?

They look to be direct debits..there's no card linked to that account..

Ten Pin

Ten Pin wrote: »

Assuming that you did not agree to the money being debited, then the payments are unauthorised or fraudulent.

Did CU do anymore than say they can't do anything? Did they at least say they'd investigate further? Or suggest reporting it to Gardai? Or block any future payments to that originator?

Or will they just keep allowing debits as long as there's money in your account? Maybe the person you spoke to doesn't know the steps to follow in these situations, but they should know who to refer you to within the CU to sort it out.

Yeah, they stopped payments to that account, but what I'm wondering is, if they have the details already, can they just start them to another account in a while?..

Yeah, I'll get on to them in a while again..

SortingYouOut

L1011 wrote: »

You should be able to recall the payments under SEPA - 13 months for unauthorised - and also block the originator. The Credit Union may have trouble figuring out how to do this if its not a common occurrence for them

That's all you need to do OP, go in and request a form for an indemnity claim under SEPA.

Ten Pin

..if they have the details already, can they just start them to another account in a while?

Possibly, you'll have to monitor it. If it happens again request a new account number. That would require updating any other legitimate direct debits.

Anyway, if the transactions were within the last 8 weeks then you can get your money back without any hassle, no need to explain anything, just tell CU to reverse the direct debits. Also the fact that they are unauthorised would allow reversal up to 13 months after but probably with more paperwork and a longer wait.

Search for "SEPA refund" for more background details.

MOH

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, they stopped payments to that account, but what I'm wondering is, if they have the details already, can they just start them to another account in a while?..

Yeah, I'll get on to them in a while again..

I'd a case where an Irish service provider set up a new direct debit after I'd cancelled one, had to cancel the second DD and then blacklist them to prevent them setting up any future ones.
But that's because they were trusted under the DD+ scheme, which presumably wouldn't be these case for some random offshore company. Still, might be worth asking can they blacklist any future payments to that account.

More importantly, if it is a direct debit, the credit union should have details of the mandate used to set it up. Saying "they can't do anything" isn't really good enough. If they've set up a DD without a mandate that's on them. Or I wonder if it's somehow a keying error, where something got set up against your account by mistake?

dudara

Moved to Banking & Insurance & Pensions

dudara

First thing you can do is request for the SEPA transfers to be reversed.

Then ask the credit union to provide you with a copy of the mandate that allows the other party to debit your account.

gctest50

Deleted User wrote: »

Not that I know of?..it's a budget account too, so it's not the one I'd use for paying for anything, it would be the one you'd set up a direct debit with.

Happens a fair bit with credit unions, go to the Gardai with it before you do anything else


https://www.google.com/search?q=credit+union+fraud+ireland


https://www.thejournal.ie/credit-union-cork-fraud-3386105-May2017/

A CORK CREDIT Union has confirmed that money was taken from some members’ accounts last year. In September 2016, “irregularities” were flagged on “a small number of accounts” at Synergy Credit Union in Fermoy, Co Cork.

Apparently now they're saying it wasn't a sepa transfer..they just had the iban and bic..I thought all eu wide money transfers were done with sepa now..they are getting back to me Monday..I'm going to the guards tomorrow..

Sleeper12

Deleted User wrote:

The Credit Union said there isn't much that can be done because I must have given them my Account no. and BIC.

There's nothing wrong with giving out your account number & BIC. My IBAN is on all of my invoices. All anyone can do with this is lodge money into my account or transfer money into my account.

You must have signed up for something. Your account details alone are no use to anyone

I dunno...it's obviously fraudulent..three and four transfers for varying amounts ~30 to 70 on the one day..can't for the life of me think of what I might have signed up for, and if I did, it wouldn't have been that account..that account is just for mortgage and bills..

But yeah, can someone answer if all money transfers are covered under separate these days?

Cushie Butterfield

Without coming across as prying into your personal circumstances, could someone you know/knew have had access/details for this account?

coylemj

Luxembourg suggest Amazon to me. I bought some items in Nov/Dec and on my credit card statement, it says 'LU' for the country code.

yosser hughes

You seem remarkably relaxed about this. I'm not sensing urgency here
Does anyone else known to you have access to this account? Nobody can take money from your account without explicit authorisation.
Knowing the IBAN isn't enough on its own.

No, don't think so ..

No, Amazon comes out of another account..
We'll see Monday what accounts in the CU say..it's a small private CU, and although,yeah,I'm generally very Zen, they don't seem to know what s going on..

lawred2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Apparently now they're saying it wasn't a sepa transfer..they just had the iban and bic..I thought all eu wide money transfers were done with sepa now..they are getting back to me Monday..I'm going to the guards tomorrow..

IBAN and BIC are account routing codes that facilitate SEPA payments.

Not sure what you mean - they are not two separate payment mechanisms

y0ssar1an22

feel your pain OP. same happened to me - a crowd in Luxembourg for about €1500. maybe 20 transactions of €86 each over 24 hours. got onto bank of Ireland who reimbursed me within 2 days. hopefully the CU will be as accommodating.

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Apparently now they're saying it wasn't a sepa transfer..they just had the iban and bic..I thought all eu wide money transfers were done with sepa now..they are getting back to me Monday..I'm going to the guards tomorrow..

They sound incompetent. Tell them you'll be going to the Financial Services Ombudsman if they don't start understanding the basics here

MOH

lawred2 wrote: »

IBAN and BIC are account routing codes that facilitate SEPA payments.

Not sure what you mean - they are not two separate payment mechanisms

To a destination account, not unilaterally from a source. I presume what the CU are trying to claim is that somebody with the OP's BIC and IBAN just withdrew money from their account.
Which obviously shouldn't be possible without a DD mandate/payment instruction, which the CU should have.

CalamariFritti

Yes that's sounds ridiculous. IBAN is nothing but an account number which isnt exactly top secret as you can do nothing with it only transfer money to it. Certainly not draw money from it.

Most businesses have their IBANs publicly available.

28064212

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with giving out your account number & BIC. My IBAN is on all of my invoices. All anyone can do with this is lodge money into my account or transfer money into my account

yosser hughes wrote: »

Nobody can take money from your account without explicit authorisation.
Knowing the IBAN isn't enough on its own.

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Yes that's sounds ridiculous. IBAN is nothing but an account number which isnt exactly top secret as you can do nothing with it only transfer money to it. Certainly not draw money from it.

Not true, you can use an IBAN to sign someone up for a direct debit e.g. if I have your IBAN, I can use it to pay my electricity bill. The flaw in that approach is that my electricity provider obviously has my information. There is a responsibility on the direct debit collector to ensure that they have correct information, and you are protected by the fact that you can reverse a fraudulent direct debit for up to 13 months after it happens.

dudara wrote: »

Then ask the credit union to provide you with a copy of the mandate that allows the other party to debit your account.

Financial institutions don't hold or manage mandates, the creditor company does. If a credit union receives a direct debit instruction from an authorised creditor, they're going to process it, they have absolutely no knowledge of whether that instruction was authorised by the debtor

To update, the CU have recalled the payments, and are in contact with PayPal and the bank in question..they agreed it looked fraudulent..

Reasonably pleased with the outcome..

gimli2112

It's sad you can get better advice on a public internet forum than from your credit union but at least it seems to have worked out ok for you. Their initial response is really annoying.

coylemj

Deleted User wrote: »

To update, the CU have recalled the payments, and are in contact with PayPal and the bank in question..they agreed it looked fraudulent..

How is Paypal involved?

I'd contact the Financial Regulator for credit unions. Based on the initial response from your CU, they appear to be wide open to fraudulent transactions of this type.

https://www.centralbank.ie/regulation/industry-market-sectors/credit-unions/contact-us

Deleted User wrote: »

Reasonably pleased with the outcome..

And well you might, but I'd have serious concerns that someone with no mandate from you presented them with a DD and they paid it.

Their initial reaction was to brush you off 'because I must have given them my Account no. and BIC.' Which suggests that anyone who presents them, with a DD with a valid account number will get paid. But if you pay someone with a personal cheque, you are handing them your account number and branch data - because it's printed by the bank at the bottom of every cheque.