Tupe/Client Issue

music80s

I have been with the same security company for 25 years.
I have been on the site im placed now for 10 years.

The security company lost the contract to another company which does happen i know. The new company have offered me to come over on Tupe and i keep the same contract etc im on now. Again this is all ok and the union is fine about all this to.

My issue is the site im on the client not only want to change the security company but also the security guard namely me.

I have a good relationship with the client, they have even stated in many emails that they are happy with me. I asked the client and they told me we just want to change and its nothing to do with me.

I like this site its a 5 minute walk away from my home. The union have said that im being offered a role on the same terms in the new company and they feel there is nothing to be done.

Im just wondering is the correct, i carn't believe this can be fair and no way to treat someone. Just wondering if anyone thinks this is correct or would i have a case? Or is it a case of sour grapes from me.

I just find it all very strange.

_Brian

I’m not familiar with this specific industry.

Forget about the Tupe issues.

Would it be normal for a client to request a different placement??

Putting my employers hat on I’d be thinking I’d want a different security person reasonably regularly to Keep things clean and professional, people make friends, friends do favours for each other’s etc, etc.

It happens, we see “friends” clocking each other in and out regularly.

Dav010

Op, this doesn’t read like a TUPE situation, are you sure that was the term used?

The new security firm may be offering you a job, but you would be a new employee being offered a job on similar terms/conditions as your previous employment. If they let you go within the first 12 months you would have little protection and no redundancy.

TUPE applies when one company/person buys/takes over another one and you continue being employed by the new owner under the same conditions as the old one.

Did the new security company buy up the one you have been working for for 25 years?

music80s

Dav010 wrote: »

Op, this doesn’t read like a TUPE situation, are you sure that was the term used?

The new security firm may be offering you a job, but you would be a new employee being offered a job on similar terms/conditions as your previous employment. If they let you go within the first 12 months you would have little protection and no redundancy.

TUPE applies when one company/person buys/takes over another one and you continue being employed by the new owner under the same conditions as the old one.

Did the new security company buy up the one you have been working for for 25 years?

No the company was not taken over, they lost the contract to another security company.

Yes Tupe term was used, the current company want me and the new company want me. Its the client who dont. They want a new system of changing the security guard every six months. I just feel after 10 years on the same site its a bit unfair.

But it is nice to know 2 security companies want me on the same terms and conditions.

TUPE can apply in this sort of scenario.
For example outsourced IT support workers doing the same work sitting at the same desk transferring to new employers when a different company wins a contract.

Your case seems to be a collision of change in employer and change in policy. If you are really bothered and your union have nothing more would you take some legal advise from someone who knows employment law?

poppers

to me it looks like the client didnt want your old company, by you moving to new company and staying as security with them the seem to think what ever issues they had will still be there just the security guard has a different uniform.

Also be very careful if moving as DAV 010 said this doesnt sound like TUPE but just you getting a new job on similar terms and conditions. Your 25 yrs of service could mean nothing if made redundant.

music80s

I think the best way for me to look at this is to stay with the security company im with.
If the client dont want me then im banging my head against a wall. Going down the legal route would cost and id say a waste of time.

But thanks for the feed back all.

PawneeRanger

What does it say in your current contract regarding the sites you work on? Does your contract specifically name this site or does it say that you can be moved to any site as needed?

Diceicle

Sounds like a situation where TUPE is appropriate - had a similar situation in work fairly recently.
Incumbent supplier lost the contract but 'their' staff were TUPE'd over to the new contractor as part of the deal.
Ultimately though, if the client/site wants a change of policy which implements a regular changing of the guard (for whatever reason that is) then its time to move on in my opinion.

music80s

My contract does state the place i will be working yes, i can find nothing to state i could be moved on to another site.

As Diceicle says its time to move. I believe he is correct in this case. Im over the shock of being moved on and no one likes rejection but this happens in life. It does leave a bad taste in my mouth and i will see if i can get a better explanation from the client.

STB.

_Brian wrote: »

I’m not familiar with this specific industry.

Forget about the Tupe issues.

Would it be normal for a client to request a different placement??

Putting my employers hat on I’d be thinking I’d want a different security person reasonably regularly to Keep things clean and professional, people make friends, friends do favours for each other’s etc, etc.

It happens, we see “friends” clocking each other in and out regularly.

He cannot forget about TUPE. It's a European Directive transposed into Irish Law. Its the only protection he has when a company that previously employed him loses a service contract. The rights are inherited from time spent in the job previously - in this case 10 years.

https://employmentrightsireland.com/tag/tupe-regulations/
https://www.mcdowellpurcell.ie/what-is-tupe/

What normally happens is that the person in the job keeps their job and remains in situ and just ends up working for another services company on the same conditions. It pops up regularly for those working in areas prone to outsourcing and defined tender periods (subject to retendering), IT and Security would be quite prone. Despite the previous post about "friends", most employers want continuity.

OP. Find out the details of the TUPE arrangements.

Tzardine

This is absolutely a TUPE scenario. Happens every day in the security and other soft services sectors as contracts change.

You are entitled to stay on the same site. The client can not move you as part of TUPE. This happens all the time.

They can however move you for various other reasons, and the unfortunate reality is that if they want you gone then they will have you moved.

Your service carries over though, so the new company will have to find you a site, or swallow the cost of making you redundant (which they will 100% not do if you have 25 years service)

music80s

Tzardine wrote: »

This is absolutely a TUPE scenario. Happens every day in the security and other soft services sectors as contracts change.

You are entitled to stay on the same site. The client can not move you as part of TUPE. This happens all the time.

They can however move you for various other reasons, and the unfortunate reality is that if they want you gone then they will have you moved.

Your service carries over though, so the new company will have to find you a site, or swallow the cost of making you redundant (which they will 100% not do if you have 25 years service)

The client is moving me on because they have decided they want a new security guard every 6 months.
There is nothing i can do about this.
They have offered me to stay for the first 6 months if i wish to.
My current employer are putting me on a new site same hours etc at the end of March.
Im gonna stay with my current employer.